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Old December 03, 2019, 05:58   #1
raubvogel
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Liberty Ammunition and 7N31

So I looked at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9...ssure_variants

Bullet weight 4.1 g (63.3 gr)
Muzzle velocity 600 m/s (1,969 ft/s)
Muzzle energy 756 J (558 ft⋅lbf)

and thought "I wonder if I could make a similar load. I swear I have seen some bullet vendor selling non-lead bullets (copper? poop?) around that weight." But then I saw https://libertyammo.com/product/civil-defense-9mm/

Weight: 50gr
Velocity: 2000 FPS
Kinetic Energy: 450 FPE
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Old December 03, 2019, 20:18   #2
RPBII
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Have you seen MAC testing of the Liberty 9mm?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr6h44Pu4sM&t=528s
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Old December 03, 2019, 23:26   #3
hueyville
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I have tested the Liberty in a variety of cartridges and consider it a gimmic. Know they were sold through bankruptcy court last year and maybe the new owners have worked out the failure to feed and not firing in many pistols due to hard primers. Majority of bullet only penetrates two to four inches and base will stop at six to ten inches in 9mm through 45 acp. it does the same thing as RIP ammo does though feeds much better than RIP, after impact basically hit target with a load of rock salt and a 20 to 30 grain copper base that just doesn't have enough mass.

What's left is in same big box with RIP and other similar magic rounds to sit till have collector value. I have had dozens of people give me almost full boxes of RIP and one friend gave me over a dozen boxes in four cartridges of which most were still full. He kept having the sharp petals catch on feed ramp and peel back. the huge hollow point on the Liberty was prone to hanging on feed ramps of many pistols.

I have thousands of rounds that are being held in collector status when disappear. Only ammo that works well and is being held for collector value are over a thousand rounds of original OEM box Black Talons that were banned as cop killer bullets. Funny part was after they were banned every LGS suddenly had plain white boxes of Black Talons under another name and marked "for law enforcement use only" stacked to ceilings and seemed everyone was a cop when asked for a box.

I still have large quantities of MagSafe and Glazer Safety Slugs which used light projectiles and high velocity for less than optimal performance. Ammo that never caught on that I really liked was PMC Starfire which rocks. Also like the PMC flying cookie cutters for cutting holes through perp and the six people behind him. Here is a decent article on handgun ammo for defensive use.

https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge...-defense-ammo/
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Old December 03, 2019, 23:49   #4
ammolab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hueyville View Post
I have tested the Liberty in a variety of cartridges and consider it a gimmic. Know they were sold through bankruptcy court last year and maybe the new owners have worked out the failure to feed and not firing in many pistols due to hard primers. Majority of bullet only penetrates two to four inches and base will stop at six to ten inches in 9mm through 45 acp. it does the same thing as RIP ammo does though feeds much better than RIP, after impact basically hit target with a load of rock salt and a 20 to 30 grain copper base that just doesn't have enough mass.

What's left is in same big box with RIP and other similar magic rounds to sit till have collector value. I have had dozens of people give me almost full boxes of RIP and one friend gave me over a dozen boxes in four cartridges of which most were still full. He kept having the sharp petals catch on feed ramp and peel back. the huge hollow point on the Liberty was prone to hanging on feed ramps of many pistols.

I have thousands of rounds that are being held in collector status when disappear. Only ammo that works well and is being held for collector value are over a thousand rounds of original OEM box Black Talons that were banned as cop killer bullets. Funny part was after they were banned every LGS suddenly had plain white boxes of Black Talons under another name and marked "for law enforcement use only" stacked to ceilings and seemed everyone was a cop when asked for a box.

I still have large quantities of MagSafe and Glazer Safety Slugs which used light projectiles and high velocity for less than optimal performance. Ammo that never caught on that I really liked was PMC Starfire which rocks. Also like the PMC flying cookie cutters for cutting holes through perp and the six people behind him. Here is a decent article on handgun ammo for defensive use.

https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge...-defense-ammo/
Black talon pistol ammunition was never “banned” or “outlawed”. The line was discontinued by Winchester-Olin due to the big hubbub made about their effectiveness, and pointy jacket projections that “might harm” (never happened) medical personnel.
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