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Old January 04, 2020, 12:24   #1
BarnOwlLover
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The French Army has rung up FNH again...

Even though the FN SCAR got passed over as the standard issue service rifle in favor of the HK416 to eventually phase out the old FAMAS, the French Armed Forces have trusted in FN for full auto firepower. The French Army has adopted the FN MAG and Minimi as their 7.62mm and 5.56mm machine guns respectively.

Now, they've called upon FN to provide some semi-auto precision firepower. Just like how the FN MAG and Minimi replaced the 7.5mm and 7.62mm versions of the AAT-52 GPMG as part of the French Army's modernization program (which also lead to the 416 being selected to replace the FAMAS), the French were looking for a more modern semi-auto precision rifle to replace the FR-2 bolt action rifle as a sniper and DMR rifle.

A recent article on the Strategie & Technik blog has reported that the French Army have adopted a variant of the FN SCAR 20 HPR as their new general issue sniper/DMR rifle.

Article is in German, but Google's and Bing's Translators are your friends there. Also has photos of the rifle set up to French Armed Forces specs, it's carrying case, and the FR-2 that it should be replacing.

https://strategie-technik.blogspot.c...ohrgewehr.html
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Old January 04, 2020, 15:30   #2
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Good information. Thanks.
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Old January 05, 2020, 16:57   #3
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Shame....for the money the SCAR is a better rifle than that overpriced AR15. I had a SCAR 20 but the standard 7.62 carbine is so accurate that I sold it. A long range shooter will appreciate that extra 4in of barrel I suppose.
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Old January 05, 2020, 19:48   #4
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French Army spec ops use the SCAR 16 5.56mm rifle as their standard issue. Don't know why the French decided on the 416 over the SCAR as the GI rifle to eventually phase out the FAMAS. I suppose that the Franco-German tactical alliance had something to do with it; the French wanted to throw something HK's and Germany's way.

That being said, the German Army isn't 100% enthusiastic about using the 416 as general issue. Allegedly, it's cost per a rifle being a bit more than they want to pay, and the GIs in the German Army like folding stocks, paddle mag releases and forward charging handles. The 416, being AR-15 based, doesn't have those features, but the 433 (which I call HK's fusion between the SCAR, ACR, G36, 416 and even the Steyr AUG) does.

And the 433 originally began as HK's private venture program to have a more modern modular rifle to compete against the SCAR. So it's little surprise that the SCAR influenced it, like with many modern rifles developed since the 2000s
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Old January 05, 2020, 22:18   #5
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Those French Famas rifles will never make it to the surplus market. But if they did , they would be like previous French rifles , NEVER FIRED AND ONLY DROPPED ONCE WHEN THEY SURRENDER! SORRY ! Someone had to
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Old January 05, 2020, 23:26   #6
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I'd rather have the FR-2 than a FAMAS.
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Old January 06, 2020, 07:37   #7
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Those French Famas rifles will never make it to the surplus market. But if they did , they would be like previous French rifles , NEVER FIRED AND ONLY DROPPED ONCE WHEN THEY SURRENDER! SORRY ! Someone had to
The semi FAMAS were sold here in the late 1980's for $700. I don't know how many and I passed because of the bullpup design.
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Old January 06, 2020, 09:42   #8
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Hmmm,

If FAMAS kits were imported I wonder how hard the FAMAS receiver would be to remake? The barrels would be less difficult, but the real question is how many US folks would pay for a French Bullpup and how much would they pay?

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Old January 06, 2020, 09:46   #9
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The semi FAMAS were sold here in the late 1980's for $700. I don't know how many and I passed because of the bullpup design.
Also, $700 was a lot of money back in the 80's. It's nothing to sneeze at now but would've been a fairly expensive toy in 1980's money.
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Old January 06, 2020, 10:20   #10
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Also, $700 was a lot of money back in the 80's. It's nothing to sneeze at now but would've been a fairly expensive toy in 1980's money.
I remember walking into Shooting Systems outside of St Louis, MO back in 1987 after badgering my old man endlessly to buy me a gun (he didnt). That was probably the first time I had seen a Barrett M82 in person...they were sitting out on the counter right where you could touch them and Robocop had just come out so I already knew what they were. They had Gun South FALs for (I think) about $1000 and HK91s for $750.....about $1700 in todays money. Polytech AKs were like $350. If only we'd known.
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Old January 06, 2020, 12:12   #11
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The semi FAMAS were sold here in the late 1980's for $700. I don't know how many and I passed because of the bullpup design.
I remember seeing one or two of them at shows back in the day. Think they were expensive then....
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Old January 06, 2020, 20:14   #12
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Hmmm,

If FAMAS kits were imported I wonder how hard the FAMAS receiver would be to remake? The barrels would be less difficult, but the real question is how many US folks would pay for a French Bullpup and how much would they pay?

Thorack
I'm guessing that the FAMAS would likely end up in some of it's former colonies as hand me downs.

Apparently the French have a policy now of no surplus firearms for civilian sales and back in the 1990's destroyed some substantial stocks of leftover MAS rifles they still had. Therefore if they didn't pass them down to other countries they would likely get destroyed. No parts kits. I heard Norway did the same a while ago with some remaining stocks of K98 rifles and Krag rifles. All destroyed.
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Old January 07, 2020, 00:23   #13
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That and a lot of the FAMAS rifles will be worn out by the time the 416 completely replaces them, and as soon as the French Army went to an all-pro volunteer force in 2000 and got rid of the last of the conscripts who didn't want to volunteer to stay on in '01, GIAT/Nexter opted out of the small arms business and shut down the MAS plant where most of the FAMAS rifles got built.

And I've heard that there's relatively little in the way of spare parts and support for the FAMAS rifles still in service. I'm betting that most of them will be destroyed or put into storage, or maybe become museum pieces.
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Old January 07, 2020, 03:53   #14
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Those French Famas rifles will never make it to the surplus market. But if they did , they would be like previous French rifles , NEVER FIRED AND ONLY DROPPED ONCE WHEN THEY SURRENDER! SORRY ! Someone had to

the FAMAS is so, over the top idiotly made and unpractical beyond...

FUBAR all the way. the handlings, the sights, the safeties (that is multiple)

by the time you got there grenade launch system correctly, WW3 is over...








Who thinks that putting a safety on "o" is safe? not the French!








i'm happy i sold mine...






I hates my arm too




sight pictures, got it?
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Old January 07, 2020, 06:37   #15
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Well,

Perhaps is a good thing if no more cheese eating surrender monkey guns or kits make it stateside. Ive always wondered if the FAMAS had any advantages over the AUG. Apprently not many.

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Old January 07, 2020, 06:50   #16
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The semi FAMAS were sold here in the late 1980's for $700. I don't know how many and I passed because of the bullpup design.
I DO remember that, also I missed getting a IMI Galil (5.56 or 7.62) back then!
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Old January 07, 2020, 06:51   #17
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Also, $700 was a lot of money back in the 80's. It's nothing to sneeze at now but would've been a fairly expensive toy in 1980's money.
Yup!
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Old January 07, 2020, 06:53   #18
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I remember walking into Shooting Systems outside of St Louis, MO back in 1987 after badgering my old man endlessly to buy me a gun (he didnt). That was probably the first time I had seen a Barrett M82 in person...they were sitting out on the counter right where you could touch them and Robocop had just come out so I already knew what they were. They had Gun South FALs for (I think) about $1000 and HK91s for $750.....about $1700 in todays money. Polytech AKs were like $350. If only we'd known.
My FN FAL/LAR retailed for $2000 back in '83-'83? The dealer had it for sale for over a year, so I got it for $1500!
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Old January 07, 2020, 07:42   #19
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My FN FAL/LAR retailed for $2000 back in '83-'83? The dealer had it for sale for over a year, so I got it for $1500!
GSI sold 5 different models of FN's on clearance in 1987-88 for $799 each (dealer)
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Old January 08, 2020, 13:02   #20
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Quirky? perhaps. But Id still like to see FAMAS parts kits here.
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Old January 11, 2020, 00:25   #21
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Just read a TFB article on why the FN SCAR 20/HPR was picked up by the French Army as a semi-auto DMR/sniper rifle. They already use the HK417 in some numbers for a similar role, but HK turned down being a tender in this competition. The reason given by HK is back log/anticipation of orders and are working at near capacity right now. This includes orders for the MG5 machine gun (replacing the MG3 AKA MG42/59 in most infantry roles in the German Army), the HK416F (GI rifle for the French Army that's supplementing and will be phasing out the FAMAS), and likely trying to reserve some production capacity for the HK433 family if the German Army adopts it as a service rifle.

Also, most French companies opted out as with both the service rifle and semi-auto DMR projects, the French Army stipulated a preference for companies with a certain amount of financial turnover. This means that most French firearms companies got ruled out.

Also, possible issues with the ITAR treaty meant that the French Army didn't seriously look at any North American vendors.

Here's a video of the French Army spec SCAR 20 HPR in action and some of the equipment issued with it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UKAV4s-tTg

Also, the 5.56mm version of the SCAR SC compact assault rifle/rifle cal. SMG have been purchased by a French armed agency as well.
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Old January 11, 2020, 03:05   #22
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Scope Schmidt & Bender

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Old January 11, 2020, 05:41   #23
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I thought the French small arms industry was all but gone. Also, I thought H&K was in financial troubles (https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-for-survival/ is old though)
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Old January 11, 2020, 08:56   #24
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I thought the French small arms industry was all but gone. Also, I thought H&K was in financial troubles (https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-for-survival/ is old though)
Nothing like the European Union getting involved in the global war on terror and watch H&K's profitability go up.
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Old January 11, 2020, 08:59   #25
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[QUOTE=Impala_Guy;4826296]I remember walking into Shooting Systems outside of St Louis, MO back in 1987 after badgering my old man endlessly to buy me a gun (he didnt). That was probably the first time I had seen a Barrett M82 in person...they were sitting out on the counter right where you could touch them and Robocop had just come out so I already knew what they were. They had Gun South FALs for (I think) about $1000 and HK91s for $750.....about $1700 in todays money. Polytech AKs were like $350. If only we'd known./QUOTE]

At age 11 dad gave me a 22 rim fire turn bolt then at 12 he gave me a Ruger Mk1 Standard, Marlin 336 in 35 Remington (he could not figure out why I choose it over 30-30 but local game warden was just beginning to teach me reloading and I understood how cheap a .357 mold and bucket of wheel weights could be), a VW Bug and told me if I screwed up with any of the above he would take all away. Grew up in rural N.E. Georgia (Dawsonville address but closer to Ball Ground aka the deep dark woods) and my rule with my VW was allowed to go anywhere I wanted as long as stayed on dirt roads which gave me a driving area that extended from Dawsonville to Ellijay and to Jasper which pretty much covered three counties.

Got me a job and by 13 had purchased a 4" Smith M19 357, a 1911, Remington 600 in 350 Rem Mag because the ugly things were inexpensive and kept with my 357 bore diameter theme. Also took a chance due to fact had to drive on a state highway to get to game wardens house to reload so could only use his equipment when parents could take me over or game warden picked me up. End of that summer before school began had saved a ton of cash from my construction job where owner had said would pay me $3.65 per hour but first check was too much and when showed him had been overpaid he said mm if worked like a man, got a man's wage and was paying me $8 per hour on the framing crew.

Took a risk and drove to Atlanta to buy a turret press, four sets of dies, two bullet molds, scales, trimmer and other necessary accessories to mount to bench already installed in bedroom. By 16 had bought my first AR 15, second AR 15, 44 mag wheel gun and more. At age 17 gave my dad the money to have a Trust drawn up with him as Primary and myself as a Trustee and Heir. Soon as the ink was dry on the Trust gave dad the money and rode with him to a NFA dealer where he paid for and gave checks for tax stamps to buy a pair of Ingram M11s in 380 and pair of Sionics suppressors. His next addition to the Trust using my cash was a Ruger AC 556 GB folder all of which I still own.

All though middle and high school kept at least one or two jobs, worked while in college then when graduated moved back home (had pistol pits and rifle ranges on 160 acres and liked my parents) which allowed me to work full time but live rent free and no food bill for 2.5 years. Day I moved out had a vault stuffed with guns, enough money to set up my first apartment with name brand new furniture, pay all deposits and buy my second progressive press. While my friends were spending money on dope, beer and girls I bought guns and saved money so when started on my own didn't have to live like I was in a college dorm and had enough toys I didn't have to really have a need for any guns just a desire to add more which I did.

My parents did me a favor by teaching me a strong work ethic but never saying a word about any gun I purchased, vault drug in house, taking dad's office for a gun room till moved and encouraged me. Mom would even pick up a spare 1911 and shoot plates or bowling pins next to me so was used to gunfire from other shooters when began shooting matches. She even began shooting IHMSA as she enjoyed knocking over chkckens, pigs and rams with a Ruger Flat Top. Mom is 80 and still carries a Smith M60 and shoots regularly. Supportive parents sure we're a bonus but had I even come home wit a bullpup hope they would have talked some sense into me.

I lament all the Polytech M14s when were dirt cheap because they were Chinese and rather buy one Springfield than two Polytechs because they were Chinese not fully cognizant they had as many USGI parts as a Springfield. Had I played things a little differently in the late 70s and early 80s could have really set myself up as Remington 700s, etc didn't go loopy with NFA rule changes like some rifles wish I had bought when were $800 rather than $15,000 and up. At least I thought to load up on Colt snake guns when they were just an extra hundred dollar bill over a Smith. First FAL I bought really didn't know what it was just had to have one because all the S.O.F. articles showed them in pictures from the war in Rhodesia.
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Old January 11, 2020, 09:30   #26
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Last European Fiscal Year HK did make a significant profit, though I'm unsure of the numbers. I'd expect that to jump if/when the German Army adopts the 433.

I also think that what we're seeing with France and Germany is that they've realized that their infantry small arms have some shortcomings and need to be modernized, especially with the relative leaps that some other NATO countries have made, and especially with the US, Russia and China looking at upgrading their infantry weapons and kits.

Hell, I read that Germany's Armed Forces as a whole in recent years was in need of equipment upgrades and upkeep. Odd, given that even though they've suspended peacetime conscription and got to an all professional armed force, they're also involved in a major recruitment drive to expand their army especially.
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Old January 12, 2020, 12:39   #27
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Scope Schmidt & Bender
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is there somebody with that scope installed (on his FAL or other ) ?

advice ?

thank you
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Old January 12, 2020, 12:56   #28
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Even though the FN SCAR got passed over as the standard issue service rifle in favor of the HK416 to eventually phase out the old FAMAS, the French Armed Forces have trusted in FN for full auto firepower. The French Army has adopted the FN MAG and Minimi as their 7.62mm and 5.56mm machine guns respectively.

Now, they've called upon FN to provide some semi-auto precision firepower. Just like how the FN MAG and Minimi replaced the 7.5mm and 7.62mm versions of the AAT-52 GPMG as part of the French Army's modernization program (which also lead to the 416 being selected to replace the FAMAS), the French were looking for a more modern semi-auto precision rifle to replace the FR-2 bolt action rifle as a sniper and DMR rifle.

A recent article on the Strategie & Technik blog has reported that the French Army have adopted a variant of the FN SCAR 20 HPR as their new general issue sniper/DMR rifle.

Article is in German, but Google's and Bing's Translators are your friends there. Also has photos of the rifle set up to French Armed Forces specs, it's carrying case, and the FR-2 that it should be replacing.

https://strategie-technik.blogspot.c...ohrgewehr.html

Why does the French Army need new rifles and machine guns - they will just get banged up and trashed when they throw them down on the ground when they surrender. Sounds like a waste of good money.
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Old January 12, 2020, 15:51   #29
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As the SCAR 20 is built in USA, it is at least jobs,jobs,jobs for USA even if

it is a "belgian" rifle bought by french government
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Old January 12, 2020, 20:10   #30
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I'm guessing that the FAMAS would likely end up in some of it's former colonies as hand me downs.

Apparently the French have a policy now of no surplus firearms for civilian sales and back in the 1990's destroyed some substantial stocks of leftover MAS rifles they still had. Therefore if they didn't pass them down to other countries they would likely get destroyed. No parts kits. I heard Norway did the same a while ago with some remaining stocks of K98 rifles and Krag rifles. All destroyed.
It is a U.N. treaty thing to limit small arms moving between countries to non government users. South Africa destroyed big quantities of Brit origin small arms back in the late 90s for the same reason.
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Old January 13, 2020, 01:39   #31
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Why does the French Army need new rifles and machine guns - they will just get banged up and trashed when they throw them down on the ground when they surrender. Sounds like a waste of good money.
I wonder where you got that opinio? Or are you refering to ww2 and vietnam?
I think you might search for a more objectieve info source.
Check there activity in Africa and small countries like Mali or so.
It aint all black and white.

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Old January 13, 2020, 09:20   #32
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Also, $700 was a lot of money back in the 80's. It's nothing to sneeze at now but would've been a fairly expensive toy in 1980's money.
The difference is more than x3 as of now, so if you are to account for the inflation - you're looking at almost 2300$ in today's money. Crazy to think!
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Old January 13, 2020, 13:51   #33
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I wonder where you got that opinio? Or are you refering to ww2 and vietnam?
I think you might search for a more objectieve info source.
Check there activity in Africa and small countries like Mali or so.
It aint all black and white.

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If anyone has visited the Arc de Triomphe there are perhaps hundreds of French victorious battles over a few centuries inscribed on the walls. All I can say is they must have a lot of battle streaners on their tri-color flag.

I like the battle where Napoleon defeated the Russians in Austria just after defeating the Austrian army. The Russian army was retreating across a frozen lake and Napoleon ordered his cannon to fire in order to break the ice.
20 thousand Russian soldiers perished at the lake.
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Old January 13, 2020, 17:29   #34
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Originally Posted by ServiceRifle View Post
Why does the French Army need new rifles and machine guns - they will just get banged up and trashed when they throw them down on the ground when they surrender. Sounds like a waste of good money.
What happened in 1940 was much more complex than mere "cowardice". The existing democratic government was unpopular and seen as weak, the officer and merchant classes both feared communism and favored strong leaders, and the communists acted to sabotage war preparations because ol' Adolf was their buddy in the spring of 1940. Plus the whole country in general was still reeling from the unpleasantness of a couple of decades earlier....

Not to mention, for those few weeks of fighting between invasion and armistice, the French suffered close to 100,000 dead.
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Old January 13, 2020, 17:33   #35
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Originally Posted by BarnOwlLover View Post
That and a lot of the FAMAS rifles will be worn out by the time the 416 completely replaces them, and as soon as the French Army went to an all-pro volunteer force in 2000 and got rid of the last of the conscripts who didn't want to volunteer to stay on in '01, GIAT/Nexter opted out of the small arms business and shut down the MAS plant where most of the FAMAS rifles got built.

And I've heard that there's relatively little in the way of spare parts and support for the FAMAS rifles still in service. I'm betting that most of them will be destroyed or put into storage, or maybe become museum pieces.
Have the French also given up on their 7.5x54 caliber as well?
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Old January 13, 2020, 19:28   #36
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Really curious why they went with the 17 stock. The 20 stock is much better for precision shooting IMHO. Weight is the only reason I can fathom as the 17 stock is 17.5 oz. lighter.
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Old January 14, 2020, 00:16   #37
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The SCAR 20s seemed more like it was tailored to the likes of American precision rifle shooters. It really had no real advantages for me over my 17 other than an extra 4in of barrel, and its a pig. My ideal rifle would have been to just take the 17, add a slightly thicker contour 18in barrel, a simple lightweight fixed stock with an adjustable comb, and thats it. Maybe add the short PMM picatinny rail extension to get the bipod out there, which is what I have done with one of my 17s. Dont mind the jerky I just made.

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Old January 14, 2020, 10:14   #38
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Originally Posted by enbloc8 View Post
What happened in 1940 was much more complex than mere "cowardice". The existing democratic government was unpopular and seen as weak, the officer and merchant classes both feared communism and favored strong leaders, and the communists acted to sabotage war preparations because ol' Adolf was their buddy in the spring of 1940. Plus the whole country in general was still reeling from the unpleasantness of a couple of decades earlier....

Not to mention, for those few weeks of fighting between invasion and armistice, the French suffered close to 100,000 dead.
The French is early WWII lacked in military leadership & tactics and depended too much on the Maginot Line which the Germans bypassed.
The French actually had better armored tanks than the Germans and the Blitzkrieg with the two-punch air and armor invasion placed the French Army at a disadvantage and in disarry.
When Charles de Gaulle refused membership in NATO and ordered all allied military out of France, we still treated them as an equal partner.
I believe still today Americans felt France was ungrateful as the Americans and British did the heavy lifting to free their country.

The French did help the colonies during the Revolutionary War which is not forgotten, but today France is sometimes regarded as a fair-weather allies.
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Old January 14, 2020, 14:25   #39
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Originally Posted by enbloc8 View Post
Have the French also given up on their 7.5x54 caliber as well?
The French gave up on it in the early 1980s when the FAMAS replace the MAS 49/56 as general issue.
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Old January 14, 2020, 14:45   #40
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The FAMAS just looked like a POS, so overpriced nazi ARs seem like a major improvement by comparison. AUG is the only bullpoop that ever did anything for me - hope I can get one before Bernie and crew take over.
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Old January 14, 2020, 15:57   #41
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Looking over the FAMAS from Paco's stripped rifle, I couldn't locate either the cheese knife or the corkscrew. Don't tell me those were domestic market only features.
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Old January 14, 2020, 21:09   #42
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Q:Why are the streets in France lined with trees?
A: The Germans liked to march in the shade.

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