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Jaxxas
August 14, 2010, 12:26
Is Portugal's Liberal Drug Policy a Model for US?

http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/is-portugals-liberal-drug-policy-a-model-for-us/19591395?test=latestnews

LISBON, Portugal (Aug. 14) -- Ten years ago, Portugal had some 100,000 heroin addicts -- about 1 percent of its entire population. HIV infections from injecting drugs were among the highest in Europe. Now the addict count has been cut nearly in half. HIV infections from drug use have fallen more than 90 percent. And the policy shift responsible for such a dramatic improvement in Portuguese life is something U.S. lawmakers -- watching an escalating drug war on their southern border -- might consider worthy of some attention: decriminalization.




Sounds good to me, time to end our never ending, civil rights trampling, endless spending drug war.

Hootsmon
August 14, 2010, 13:08
Amen!!!

Letting natural selection do it's thing for a decade or two would be the best thing that could happen to this country.

wonderdog451
August 14, 2010, 13:34
I used to believe that the Education and enforcement were the way to combat rampant drug use as well, but now that I am older and somewhat wiser, I see things completely different. Even though I still have some friends who still use drugs, I now see the value of just letting natural selection do it's work.

photosteve_2000
August 14, 2010, 13:51
The war on drugs has been a expensive failure, and hasn't been sucessful
at getting drugs off the streets in any way whatsoever. When alcohol was outlawed in the 20's it generated a huge profits for the Mafia. Now we have Mexican cartels reaping huge profits, and causing the deaths of hundreds of innocent people. Legalizing drugs will pull the carpet out from under the cartels, just as legalizing booze did to the Mafia.

In this country, prescription drugs cause more deaths than illegal ones do.
Anna Nichole Smith, Heath Ledger, are the first that come to mind.

Cigarettes cause the deaths of almost a half million people in this country alone every year. Alcohol ruins more lives and destroys more families in this country than illegal ones do, and is legal.

In Colorado, Medical Marijuana has been decriminalized, and now the sale of pot is being regulated and taxed, which is going to help this State cover loss of income from the economic down turn.

It's time to wake up.

Steve

Seaweed
August 14, 2010, 13:51
I would be OK with legalizing drugs if they would just od and kill themselves. Problem is, they just fry their minds and bodies, and spend the rest of their life on the .gov teat.

martin35
August 14, 2010, 13:55
If you haven't the will or ability to resist being buggered learn to enjoy it, problem solved and that's the only consideration the morality is of no consequence,, it works in the state pen and in Portugal and leaves the guards and a wimped out Portuguese Parliament more leisure time to namby pamby.

martin35
August 14, 2010, 19:40
I almost hated to say that,,,, almost.

Jaxxas
August 14, 2010, 21:57
Originally posted by martin35
If you haven't the will or ability to resist being buggered learn to enjoy it, problem solved and that's the only consideration the morality is of no consequence,, it works in the state pen and in Portugal and leaves the guards and a wimped out Portuguese Parliament more leisure time to namby pamby.



Whose morality?

martin35
August 15, 2010, 10:44
Whose morality?
Pick one. I have.

garandguy10
August 15, 2010, 11:35
Originally posted by wonderdog451
I now see the value of just letting natural selection do it's work.


This....:wink:

Brett
August 15, 2010, 11:44
Prohibition didn't work, so why would any other drug laws. I think it has to do with the fact that alcohol has been around and used forever. If they came out with a new laser gun that killed just like a regular gun it would be outlawed for public use. Not because it is more lethal, but because it is another gun. The government wants to limit our options to "vices".

Jaxxas
August 15, 2010, 12:13
Originally posted by martin35
Whose morality?
Pick one. I have.


WOW, sounds easy!

martin35
August 15, 2010, 15:05
WOW, sounds easy!
Morals aren't about what is easy,, if so there would be no need of morality,,, ya got'm or ya don't. Many seem now to travel a less moral path.
The CIA World Book put AIDs in Portugal at half that claimed by this thread,, to maintain a reduced level of that virus a promise to refrain from interacting with others not infected will have be exchanged for the drugs,,, very realist addicts are very reliable. Most human instincts only die with the individual human.
We will have to revisit the statics in a few years to validate our arguments.

koathmann
August 15, 2010, 15:43
drugs dont just hurt the user. As a teacher I saw the children with sores all over them from living in meth houses. Comparing alchahol to narcotics is like firearms to atomic bombs. Heck legalize theft,rape and murder and there would be no crime. Maybe pot should not be listed with the hard stuff but then again look at all the cities that have outlawed smoking. The tabbaco companies have been sued for making an unhelthy addictive product That cost millions in helth care. I think to sue over a legel product was BS but there is a presadence. Legalize pot and you just make more rich lawyers.

Jaxxas
August 15, 2010, 16:20
Originally posted by martin35
WOW, sounds easy!
Morals aren't about what is easy,, if so there would be no need of morality,,, ya got'm or ya don't. Many seem now to travel a less moral path.


Absolutely! But morals are relative! For instance the Taliban thinks our moral values suck! In fact I have a relative whose moral values I think suck, though I'd probably put him a notch or two above Taliban! Portugal's mores in the grand scheme of things, not so bad! Portugal like the US, has serious issues with addicts. The US chooses the same old drug war with endless failure. Portugal chooses to adapt, overcome and improvise!

Evolution is not just a good idea, it's F'n mandatory!

John Culver
August 16, 2010, 00:24
They are massively in debt (worse then us) so maybe they shoulda taxed the drugs more lol

brumalis
August 17, 2010, 01:02
What really annoys me is a lot of the ardent anti-smoking crowd, you know - the ones who want to ban it every where from home to public places, are the ones who are greatly pushing for legalizing marijuana (medical or otherwise).


Despite the liberal claim that only the Government can fix and control all evils, the U.S. Government runs afoul with do-goodingness, P.C. laws and regulations. With "good intentions" for the minority at the crushing expense of the majority, the liberal socialists goals run counter to the majority opinion in almost every American concept - even more so than most socialist Euro countries. We are looking at anti-American policies where it suits their purpose. In some points it seems counter to other policies which they support...such as smoking tobacco vs. marijuana usage. However look at the end result, big American business vs. global markets. Break the hold of the evil "capitalistic companies" and break the back of the land owning farmer and replace it for open global borders and minority farmers of far away lands. Hey, why do you think the protesters of G-8 summits are doing. It's not for tea and cookies.

How to the pro-drug opponents plan to pay for the inevitable policies of government rehabs? What of the cost of needles and the cost of drugs to the poor or homeless. Such is the policies of the Euro countries which support open drug policies. How may we monitor drug programs when DUI programs have had a limited success? Will or what type of jobs will be forced to quit drug testing? What about the military - can after hours usage be held to a don't ask, don't tell policy?

I think visiting the legalization of marijuana, for medical or otherwise, or other drugs needs to look at a broader range beside a "do you or don't you" questionnaire. When will a larger tax base be more than a burden for the states or government.

There is no easy answer. Do some usage of marijuana warrant government allowance? Sure, but then again this is a hollow promise. We fail at border security, illegal drug marketing, gang warfare and teenage pregnancy. All we are faced with is frustration, more laws and an eroding middle class. So far the only winner is China - the Communist China which every one seems to have forgotten about.

Outlaw Patriot
August 17, 2010, 14:40
Originally posted by brumalis
What really annoys me is a lot of the ardent anti-smoking crowd, you know - the ones who want to ban it every where from home to public places, are the ones who are greatly pushing for legalizing marijuana (medical or otherwise).


Despite the liberal claim that only the Government can fix and control all evils, the U.S. Government runs afoul with do-goodingness, P.C. laws and regulations. With "good intentions" for the minority at the crushing expense of the majority, the liberal socialists goals run counter to the majority opinion in almost every American concept - even more so than most socialist Euro countries. We are looking at anti-American policies where it suits their purpose. In some points it seems counter to other policies which they support...such as smoking tobacco vs. marijuana usage. However look at the end result, big American business vs. global markets. Break the hold of the evil "capitalistic companies" and break the back of the land owning farmer and replace it for open global borders and minority farmers of far away lands. Hey, why do you think the protesters of G-8 summits are doing. It's not for tea and cookies.

How to the pro-drug opponents plan to pay for the inevitable policies of government rehabs? What of the cost of needles and the cost of drugs to the poor or homeless. Such is the policies of the Euro countries which support open drug policies. How may we monitor drug programs when DUI programs have had a limited success? Will or what type of jobs will be forced to quit drug testing? What about the military - can after hours usage be held to a don't ask, don't tell policy?

I think visiting the legalization of marijuana, for medical or otherwise, or other drugs needs to look at a broader range beside a "do you or don't you" questionnaire. When will a larger tax base be more than a burden for the states or government.

There is no easy answer. Do some usage of marijuana warrant government allowance? Sure, but then again this is a hollow promise. We fail at border security, illegal drug marketing, gang warfare and teenage pregnancy. All we are faced with is frustration, more laws and an eroding middle class. So far the only winner is China - the Communist China which every one seems to have forgotten about.

I think you should be allowed to smoke whatever you want, but I shouldnt have to breath in that smoke, in public places, or my place of employment.

The war on drugs is costing far far far more money than any rehab programs.



The biggest reason the war on drugs needs to continue? Because its job security for about 90% of law enforcement officers. :confused:

Beryl
August 19, 2010, 17:54
Never happen. There is way too much money being made for the prison industry and law enforcement.

AlaskanMBR
August 23, 2010, 11:00
It's time to legalize it all and let God sort em' out.

Prohibition II is about as successful as the first one was, but notice how there Constitutional amendment allowing Prohibition II?

STGThndr
August 23, 2010, 17:34
but notice how there Constitutional amendment allowing Prohibition II?--
AlaskanMBR... Please explain?

Powderfinger
August 23, 2010, 19:26
Possibly, or some other version where .gov can regulate and tax it.
3 more county residents were executed near here Sat. nite by a drug dealing thug who is on the run. 1 more victim is critical. All for a little bit of drug turf. Didn't we learn from prohibition?

FAL freek
August 23, 2010, 20:03
Needle park was such a smashing sucess for Switzerland. :rolleyes:

AlaskanMBR
August 24, 2010, 13:57
Originally posted by STGThndr
but notice how there Constitutional amendment allowing Prohibition II?--
AlaskanMBR... Please explain?

Remember the 18th and 21st amendments?

Prohibition II is just my fancy name for the "war" on drugs.

STGThndr
August 24, 2010, 15:50
MBR: Remember the 18th and 21st amendments? Prohibition II is just my fancy name for the "war" on drugs.

Yes I remember the repealed Amendment known as the Volstead Act. That was then and involved alcohol. The 21st Amendment repealed the Volstead Act. There are no Amendments dealing with illegal drugs. I apparently have missed your point??
My own view is that if such substances were legalised for general use, it should be done with as minimal govt involvement as possible. Somehow tho I don't see heroin or meth legalised any time soon.
Just an opinion... it is one's personal right to introduce substances into their body... in a free country. One is also free to accept the consequences.