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J. Armstrong
September 01, 2007, 19:09
I have several times defended Buells based upon my ( up until now ) trouble free 2002 Cyclone M2. Basically a Sportster engine, of course, with a little extra beans. Anyway, it recently began leaking oil around the filler cap of the oil tank. I noticed when the cap is removed, there is the hiss of escaping air, opbviously something is pressurizing the oil system, as the oil splashes against the inside of the filler cap, the pressure is driving it out. The bike has about 15k miles, regular service by dealer, never really run all that hard in the sense that it has rarely ever seen redline. Recent oil change, old oil appeared normal, new oil is still clean after about 300 miles.
I thought perhaps a clogged crankcase breather could be the cause but it is open.
It goes into the dealer next week but I'd appreciate any edumacation you guys can give me so I can discuss it intelligently with them .
Any thoughts/suggestions ? ( I can see some answers already, and no, I'm not getting a riceburner :) ).
Thanks in advance !

DYNOMIKE
September 01, 2007, 19:16
Should have a Crankcase VENT to keep this from Happening?
Sometimes will look very much like a SMALL Filter and should be at or near the rear of the engine and possibly hanging down just past the Swingarm/Frame.
I also think that there is a Check BALL in the OIL Pump, Wonder if It's Stuck or if part of the Oil Pump is Broken causing EXCESS Crankcase Pressure?
I believe that the Engine ALSO vents pressure into the Backside of the AIRBOX so IF the Crankcase Vent is NOT blocked and the AIRBOX vent is Good to go something may be amiss internally..

J. Armstrong
September 01, 2007, 19:39
It has a Forcewinder intake and filter, IIRC it originally vented from the cylinder heads to the airbox, now goes to a small filter much as you describe. This is the vent I checked and found clear. This has been in place about 9k miles, so is probably not the cause ?
I was thinking this was the method of venting the crankcase, but now I am wondering if there is another that I have missed. Will look closer tomorrow !I seem to recall two hoses in the location you describe, one is the battery vent, so the other may well be the case vent, although it doesn't have a filter on it. Perhaps I moved it and pinched it off during a cleaning session - sounds like it is worth checking at any rate.
I have heard about the check ball, this sure sounds like a possibility also. Hope it is not too hard to diagnose or expensive to fix, but I am mostly concerned about getting it right first time as the leakage does its best to get on the rear brake disc - not pleasant :uhoh:. ( Not that the rear gets used all that much, but still........).

DYNOMIKE
September 01, 2007, 19:46
I would tend to agree that the Upper Vent is NOT the Cause..
FWIW, The FORCEWINDER Set-up is a GOOD one. In fact the ONLY Aftermarket Filter I have ever Found to give TRUE performance gains on these Bikes..
The OILPUMP on a Sporster Engine is Different than on a BIG TWIN so I can't help you much there.. I have NOT spent a LOT of time wrenching on these just Tuning them..
Maybe someone with some more insight will post up for you..
I hope it is an EASY, and Inexpensive fix..:beer:

J. Armstrong
September 01, 2007, 19:53
Mike, Thanks much for your insight so far - helps me at least narrow down the possibilities, which is a great help by itself.
Of course, any other thought are welcomed, too !

bob_e95482
September 01, 2007, 19:57
HarleyTechTalk has been useful for me.

kwilal
September 02, 2007, 13:50
Did any oil overflow the tank when the cap was removed? Was bike ran recently before oil change? Had a 58 Sporty once that the dealer added oil to after it was sitting in the shop a while. Oil in the tank had already seeped into the bottom end of the motor past a leaky check valve when the dealer topped it off. Fired the bike up and took off down the road with my friend following in his car. Few miles down and bike is acting funny (oil has now been pumped from bottom end back up into tank where it belongs), excess oil has nowhere to go but to pressurize system and blow past valve guides and out exhaust. Buddy in car had noticed his windshield was getting sprayed with oil but didn't know from where. Opened oil cap and about half a quart of oil oozes over the top of tank and down the side. Drained out a little more and bike ran fine.
Ken

Falunga
September 02, 2007, 17:22
I think that a brand/model-specific forum or yahoo group might be your best bet (other than the manual if it lists this as a specific issue in the troubleshooting guide).

Sometimes even the most odd-ball issue will pop up on enough bikes that on a model-specific forum it will have been already noted and someone(s) will have found the cure. The more people with the same bike & model who are driving around the better chances you are to find others who have had the same problem and hopefully fixed it.

Harley's have fixed the leaking oil issue for the last 10 years at least. If you are leaking on a newer Harley that means there is something wrong.

On an older Harley you are in trouble if it STOPS leaking. That means it is out of oil! :biggrin:

Jim :fal: FALunga

J. Armstrong
September 02, 2007, 17:25
Originally posted by kwilal
Did any oil overflow the tank when the cap was removed? Was bike ran recently before oil change? Had a 58 Sporty once that the dealer added oil to after it was sitting in the shop a while. Oil in the tank had already seeped into the bottom end of the motor past a leaky check valve when the dealer topped it off. Fired the bike up and took off down the road with my friend following in his car. Few miles down and bike is acting funny (oil has now been pumped from bottom end back up into tank where it belongs), excess oil has nowhere to go but to pressurize system and blow past valve guides and out exhaust. Buddy in car had noticed his windshield was getting sprayed with oil but didn't know from where. Opened oil cap and about half a quart of oil oozes over the top of tank and down the side. Drained out a little more and bike ran fine.
Ken

Funny you should mention that !!!! After some thought last night, that is exactly what I started to wonder about as I recently have had to add a bit of oil before each ride. Obviously it added up, because while the level was fine before start, it immediately overflowed - took out a bit less than a quart, level is fine on shutdown. Check a couple of hours later ----you guessed it, low oil.
Did you repair the check ball or just check oil after running it a minute or so ????

DK
September 02, 2007, 20:08
I did that once upon a time on a Sporty... put extra oil in a cold crankcase to bring the cold level up (I shouldn't have done that, but there you go ;) ). Crankcase pressurized and I blew the oil cap off about a mile down the road...

Excess oil removed, problem solved. After that I only checked/added oil when the engine was at operating temp.

DK

J. Armstrong
September 03, 2007, 08:22
This particular case doesn't seem to be temp as much as oil draining down past the check. As soon as the engine starts, the level starts rising as the scavenge pump ( I presume the engine has one ) returns the oil to the tank and brings it back to operating level Same result, though !

Gentlemen, a big thank you to all of you for your help - once again the Files membership proves it is the master of any problem, foriegn or domestic :D

Really appreciate the help, guys. I was worried about a major expense/downtime. The Aprilia is in the shop - hit a deer - so I didn't want to be bikeless for the remainder of the season. Much as I love the 'priller, you KNOW those parts will be months coming in from the old country !!!!!!!

DYNOMIKE
September 03, 2007, 08:34
Hey Man..
IF'n ya Need Help with the PRILLER MY Bud is the LOCAL DEALER here..
I LOVE the Prillers, and would be Happy as a CLAM IF I could own a TUONO.. :love:

J. Armstrong
September 03, 2007, 08:58
Mike, Boy, I apreciate the offer. The parts are already on order, so now it's just a matter of waiting. It's a Falco, so, parts are a bit scarce. Mostly just fairing parts, couple of brackets, etc. ( Yeah, I was REAL lucky !!!!!!) I'm pretty much resigned to a wait - okay as long as the Buell keeps ticking !! I was going to sell the Cyclone, glad now I didn't. It wouldn't bring much used, and it is still a fun ride, so I guess it is cheap insurance to keep it !! The one curse of European bikes is parts availability, for sure !!!

Dealer has a Ducati 999S with 250 miles on it - may try for a trade, or may wait to see the upcoming new 'prillers - all new engines. including a V4, although that may be a way off. A Tuono Factory would be my current pick - the sportbike riding position of the Falco is getting to be a bit much for these old bones, which has put me off of the 999S. :D

KTM Superduke is a hell of a ride, too. Now if only the lottery would cooperate.

Thanks again !

DYNOMIKE
September 03, 2007, 09:54
Love the DUCS too.. Specially the SLIPPER Clutch models.. I dig that Sound for some reason..
I think that some of the BIG Naked Bikes might be the BEST way to go these dayz..
After holding a Knife in my hand every day for over 20 Years my Wrists can't stand the Sport Bike riding position for nore than a Few Minutes..

That KTM looks killer.. Have Not seen one Up Close yet though..

I have riden the FALCO a Bit.. A few years ago Todd had a Couple Open Houses at his Shop and APRILIA Sent a Bunch of bikes for Customer Rides..
Todd would Ride Lead, & I would take the Tail Position to make sure Knowone got out of Line, OR Worse...:wink:
Although ALL the Bikes were Impressive, the TUONO really got my attention..

The NEW Motors are supposed to be amazing..:beer:

J. Armstrong
September 03, 2007, 10:46
Someone said the KTM comes from the origami school of styling. The black and orange isn't my fave, but the black on black is hot !! Kind of love it or hate it lines, but I like it. Torquey critter, too.
Aprilia is going to be making their own engines from here on out, In the past, Rotax did the engines for them - nice lumps. Interestingly, Buell just annonced they wil be fielding a new bike line withe Rotax engines - should be interesting, although the newer Buells with their steep rake and short trail are a bit too twitchy for my taste and reflexes. Like the riding position pains, a sign of wisdom ( well, age, maybe ;) ). You are right about the nakeds being a better option. These days they'll pretty much do anything a sportbike will do, at least on pavement with your basic average rider ( that's me !).
My wrists do okay, it's the lower back. Going to get a little phys therapy for a slightly slipped disc, I'm hoping that will help - after about an hour now, it gets a bit excruciating:( .

BTW, Mike, congrats on the anniversary - many more happy ones to come, I hope :beer: :beer: :beer:

kwilal
September 03, 2007, 20:42
Originally posted by J. Armstrong


Funny you should mention that !!!! After some thought last night, that is exactly what I started to wonder about as I recently have had to add a bit of oil before each ride. Obviously it added up, because while the level was fine before start, it immediately overflowed - took out a bit less than a quart, level is fine on shutdown. Check a couple of hours later ----you guessed it, low oil.
Did you repair the check ball or just check oil after running it a minute or so ????

Never repaired check ball. Bike had sat at dealers place for about 2-3 weeks so it had plenty of time to drain. Once I had it back and rode it daily the amount of leak-by was minimal on a daily basis. As quick as yours is leaking by I'm guessing there's a bit of foreign matter keeping your check ball from seating properly. You can either play with the check ball or just check oil level after your rides, or fire bike up and let it run a few minutes to pump out crankcase, then top off oil tank. Good luck.
Ken

kwilal
September 03, 2007, 20:53
Originally posted by Falunga
Harley's have fixed the leaking oil issue for the last 10 years at least.
Jim :fal: FALunga

10 years? 1965 is when they went to the sealed primary system and fully recycled all the oil in the system. Anything before 65 not only leaked, but was DESIGNED to leak, as the breather vented into the primary case where the oil mist lubricated the primary chain between engine and tranny, then out the drain tube and onto the ground.
Ken

Voided37
September 04, 2007, 02:16
You can't be in my family without a Harley. Most of my uncles and cousins have them.
As Falunga said, my '74 74[cu.in.] better be leaking or I'm getting worried...[It's ridiculous, Harleys are dinosaurs].
You can't talk intelligently about a Harley cause their ALL IMAGE and NOISE!
You just wind up loving the damn things....

STEVE:wink:

READ THIS SITE; http://www.goingfaster.com/

He knows his scooter shit!

http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/

PS, And now for some harley heresy! Suzuki Hayabusa's!!!!! Damn near TWO HUNDRED MPH from the factory and NEVER WEAR OUT!!