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redbug
April 06, 2007, 13:11
Can someone explain to me the rationale of why on earth a firearms enthusiast / gunowner would choose to be supportive of the democratic party in any way? It is common knowledge they are pushing for socialism but, as a whole, they also favor extreme gun control and probably even total confiscation. How could one be ok with having the likes of Ted Kennedy, Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Palosi, Harry Reid, Chuck Schummer, Joe Biden, Charles Rangle, and all their other fellow low lifes as the main leaders?

I am not sticking up for 'publicans. It just comes down to the lesser of two evils.

Derby FALs
April 06, 2007, 13:18
There are still plenty of blue dog democrats. OTH, why would freedom lovers and fiscal conservatives embrace the GOP right now?

redbug
April 06, 2007, 13:29
Originally posted by Derby FALs
There are still plenty of blue dog democrats. OTH, why would freedom lovers embrace the GOP right now?


Like I said, I'm pretty troubled with the GOP lately and I'm certainly not embracing them. However, just what other "realistic" choices do we have? About the only reason I can come up with to vote GOP is because I consider it a vote against the dems. How could a sane person actually want the dems in power considering their agendas as well as who and what their leadership is made up of?

Derby FALs
April 06, 2007, 20:49
Many times the Dem candidate is going to mirror your values more than the the Republican. Would you vote Rudy Guliani over Zell Miller?

Tak
April 06, 2007, 20:54
Zell is an exception to the general rule: Democrats are gun grabbers. Republicans at least usually leave gun owners alone.

Guliani is a sad excuse for a Republican.

Gun owners would do well to vote for Conservatives. Too bad fewer and fewer Republicans are actually Conservatives.

Derby FALs
April 06, 2007, 21:02
Originally posted by Tak
Zell is an exception to the general rule: Democrats are gun grabbers. Republicans at least usually leave gun owners alone.

Guliani is a sad excuse for a Republican.

Gun owners would do well to vote for Conservatives. Too bad fewer and fewer Republicans are actually Conservatives.

All Democrats are not gungrabbers. All Republicans are not pro gun. Voting one issue will leave you feeling like an unpaid whore. Start checking out some of the Blue Dogs.

River Pig
April 06, 2007, 22:15
Originally posted by Derby FALs


All Democrats are not gungrabbers. All Republicans are not pro gun. Voting one issue will leave you feeling like an unpaid whore. Start checking out some of the Blue Dogs.
The problem with your theory is that the congress is organized along party lines and not along issues.
Therefore, since republicans tend to be more gun-friendly you are more likely to have appropriate committees run by gun-friendly republicans than the typical urban democrat with seniority (like now).
The real battles are in the primaries so the anti-gun republicans get voted out at the primaries rather then in general election where voting for a gun-friendly democrat still results in democratic committee chairmen--which is where the real power lies in congress.

Derby FALs
April 06, 2007, 22:56
Originally posted by River Pig

The problem with your theory is that the congress is organized along party lines and not along issues.
Therefore, since republicans tend to be more gun-friendly you are more likely to have appropriate committees run by gun-friendly republicans than the typical urban democrat with seniority (like now).
The real battles are in the primaries so the anti-gun republicans get voted out at the primaries rather then in general election where voting for a gun-friendly democrat still results in democratic committee chairmen--which is where the real power lies in congress.

The Blue Dogs are the buffers between the two parties. Primaries are the main reason I stay registered Democrat. Granted our Dems aren't like the big city Dems but they still need weeding. Are still looking at only the gun issue?

Fr8dawg
April 07, 2007, 00:52
Originally posted by redbug
Can someone explain to me the rationale of why on earth a firearms enthusiast / gunowner would choose to be supportive of the democratic party in any way? It is common knowledge they are pushing for socialism but, as a whole, they also favor extreme gun control and probably even total confiscation. How could one be ok with having the likes of Ted Kennedy, Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Palosi, Harry Reid, Chuck Schummer, Joe Biden, Charles Rangle, and all their other fellow low lifes as the main leaders?

I am not sticking up for 'publicans. It just comes down to the lesser of two evils.

Pro gun democrats believe that guns should only exist for sporting purposes.

On the other hand, you can find a myriad of so called "republicans" that believe this or that about second amendment.

When I tell people that one of the reasons that the second amendment exists is to create a balance between people and government and some so called republican tells me that I'm going to get the same needle that Timothy McVeigh got, I just about lose it. I'm not Timothy McVeigh and the second amendment was put there as part of the checks and balances...read em and weep, sheep.

raeldridge
April 07, 2007, 08:28
you'll note the majority of the blue dog democrats are older folks. the democrat party has moved away from them to the left.

please note the observation by someone smarter than I, the democrat party today is really the socialist party of three, four decades ago. the republicans in kind is the dems of three, four decades ago.

were a Jack Kennedy to show up today, in the dem party he'd be told STFU.

and members of the republican party are still trying to figure out why the conservatives are abandoning them.

this thread more appropriately needs to be in the Politics board.

but it is a valid point. however, gunowners occupy a broad spectrum, from one person that has a O/U in a case in the closet to the frothing-at-the-mouth EBR owner. when you look a at it as a bell curve, you can see why the far end would wind up being democrat.

Bawana jim
April 07, 2007, 08:45
If the gun question was the only question that doesn't make sense then I could understand the answers given. However there are alot of socialist views that come from the democritters that I just can't believe people would vote for. To many to list yet people still vote for em, guess that's why the country is going to hell.

jim

Kyrottimus
April 07, 2007, 09:05
Look at Guliani, McCain and Romney...


Not exactly TRUE 2nd Amendment supporters either.


Fred Thomson or Ron Paul. GOOD. But I don't know of their chances yet.

Derby FALs
April 07, 2007, 10:08
Originally posted by Bawana jim
If the gun question was the only question that doesn't make sense then I could understand the answers given. However there are alot of socialist views that come from the democritters that I just can't believe people would vote for. To many to list yet people still vote for em, guess that's why the country is going to hell.

jim
No child left behind, USA PATRIOT Act,etc...

redbug
April 07, 2007, 13:37
Originally posted by Derby FALs
Many times the Dem candidate is going to mirror your values more than the the Republican. Would you vote Rudy Guliani over Zell Miller?


Probably not. Didn't Zell Miller switch to GOP or am I mistaken? Anyway, whether he did or not, I might would vote for him depending on how liberal he is on social issues. Plus, the biggest kicker is how he stands on 2nd amendment because that tells a lot about one's outlook in general. And, I do not care much for Guliani anyway.

Low Drag
April 07, 2007, 13:44
Originally posted by Derby FALs


All Democrats are not gungrabbers. All Republicans are not pro gun. Voting one issue will leave you feeling like an unpaid whore. Start checking out some of the Blue Dogs.

Anti gun republicans are as rare as pro gun democrats.

We all know Zell is a huge exception to the rule, his party left him many years ago.

redbug
April 07, 2007, 13:52
Also, it doesn't really matter if an individual dem is pro 2nd amendment or not. The fact still remains that if you support the Democratic party, you really are supporting socialism in the long run not to mention eventual attempt at firearms confiscation. These are integral to very fabric of democratic party.

River Pig
April 07, 2007, 14:44
Originally posted by Derby FALs


The Blue Dogs are the buffers between the two parties. Primaries are the main reason I stay registered Democrat. Granted our Dems aren't like the big city Dems but they still need weeding. Are still looking at only the gun issue?
No, actually guns are low on my list of priorities when I vote. I'm lucky in that my republican representative is pretty good.
But even if he wasn't, I would only fight against him/her in the primaries. The dems got into power using moderate to conservative democrats in fly-over country and people were so pissed they voted them in without thinking about the consequences.
Now look what it's gotten us. Do you see any of the moderate democrats heading up the committees and writting the bills? Those moderate gun-loving democrats still voted for Nancy P for Speaker and guys like Dingle, Waxman, Franks, etc as committee chairs.

StarPD
April 07, 2007, 17:28
Simple.
Make a list of activist anti-gun democommies.
Then make a list of activist anti-gun R.I.N.O.s.

Count them up, then check out their voting records in that light.

Finally check out the agenda and voting records of democommie committee chairs, and spokesmen.

DABTL
April 07, 2007, 19:55
I am always amazed at how immature gun owners act. If you read what you post then you cannot expect much from Democratic politicians. Salesmanship appears to be name calling and phoney political analysis. If you want to vote for Republicans that is fine and dandy. But if you want to have some influence you have to open your minds. Blindly repeating wingnut diatribes about Democrats limits your option to Republicans only. So be it.

But, when things are as they now are, having influence with a minority is not much influence at all.

Just as was demonstrated a couple of years ago, many Republicans will vote for gun control, they just did not have to expose themselves. Many Democrats had to vote for gun control although they did not want to do so. It was all a matter of where the voters were in their district. If you live in a district represented by a Democrat it is not much use babbling about the Republican Party when it is time for the politicians to vote. So, why not just drop the Republican tripe and use persuasion?

But, you may want to babble about 'democommies,' 'supporting socialism' and 'firearms confiscation' further marginalizing yourself. Your choice, after all it is just politics.

Low Drag
April 07, 2007, 20:08
Originally posted by DABTL
I am always amazed at how immature gun owners act. If you read what you post then you cannot expect much from Democratic politicians. Salesmanship appears to be name calling and phoney political analysis. If you want to vote for Republicans that is fine and dandy. But if you want to have some influence you have to open your minds. Blindly repeating wingnut diatribes about Democrats limits your option to Republicans only. So be it.

But, when things are as they now are, having influence with a minority is not much influence at all.

Just as was demonstrated a couple of years ago, many Republicans will vote for gun control, they just did not have to expose themselves. Many Democrats had to vote for gun control although they did not want to do so. It was all a matter of where the voters were in their district. If you live in a district represented by a Democrat it is not much use babbling about the Republican Party when it is time for the politicians to vote. So, why not just drop the Republican tripe and use persuasion?

But, you may want to babble about 'democommies,' 'supporting socialism' and 'firearms confiscation' further marginalizing yourself. Your choice, after all it is just politics.


OOOOHHHHH, now I understand. Your a dem supporter and you think for yourself. Supporters of the repubs just quote party line and don't think for themselves.

It couldn't possibly be that I'm more in line with republican/conservative thinking than democrat/liberal thinking. Oops, sorry for the phony political analysis. :eek:

Gee, thanks for setting me straight. :wink:

You crack me up, dems vote for gun control because they have too. That's too funny.

Derby FALs
April 07, 2007, 20:27
Originally posted by Low Drag



OOOOHHHHH, now I understand. Your a dem supporter and you think for yourself. Supporters of the repubs just quote party line and don't think for themselves.

It couldn't possibly be that I'm more in line with republican/conservative thinking than democrat/liberal thinking. Oops, sorry for the phony political analysis. :eek:

Gee, thanks for setting me straight. :wink:

You crack me up, dems vote for gun control because they have too. That's too funny.

Can you please give us examples from the current batch of this "republican/conservative thinking"?

Low Drag
April 07, 2007, 21:38
Originally posted by Derby FALs


Can you please give us examples from the current batch of this "republican/conservative thinking"?

Can you please be specific when you refer to "the current batch"?

warbird
April 07, 2007, 22:04
So, what have the Democrats done for YOU lately? :wink:

Bawana jim
April 07, 2007, 22:28
Originally posted by Derby FALs

No child left behind, USA PATRIOT Act,etc...

:wink: got to love your kind of thinking. The democrats have murdered over 10 million babies and call it abortion yet you vote for them. The repubs want no child left behind in education and you seem to think that is a tradgedy. Guess you got your reasons to want kids killed and you certianly vote for the right party.

jim

ratas calientes
April 07, 2007, 22:37
I do have the feeling lately that I am taken for granted by the Republicans. Sure, they generally claim to be pro-gun, but they do little to change the laws to favor gun owners. No more. http://chilirat.com/emoticons/chilirat.gif

DABTL
April 08, 2007, 07:54
Originally posted by Low Drag



OOOOHHHHH, now I understand. Your a dem supporter and you think for yourself. Supporters of the repubs just quote party line and don't think for themselves.

It couldn't possibly be that I'm more in line with republican/conservative thinking than democrat/liberal thinking. Oops, sorry for the phony political analysis. :eek:

Gee, thanks for setting me straight. :wink:

You crack me up, dems vote for gun control because they have too. That's too funny.

You may be in line with anything you desire to follow. You can tell everyone to vote Republican. Who cares. If there are Republican majorities, that might be a good plan. If you are in the minority, not so good a plan.

It does not take a great deal of intellectual thought to realize that if you have a Democratic Rep. telling him your 'republican/conservative thinking' is going to do little good.

All you need to decide is whether or not you want to be effective or an idiot. Your choice.

Low Drag
April 08, 2007, 08:51
Originally posted by DABTL


You may be in line with anything you desire to follow. You can tell everyone to vote Republican. Who cares. If there are Republican majorities, that might be a good plan. If you are in the minority, not so good a plan.

It does not take a great deal of intellectual thought to realize that if you have a Democratic Rep. telling him your 'republican/conservative thinking' is going to do little good.

All you need to decide is whether or not you want to be effective or an idiot. Your choice.

Well that's and obtuse reply if I ever saw one.

But I detect that you think telling your dem rep to vote pro gun is a waste of time?

It does not take a great deal of intellectual thought to realize that if you have a Democratic Rep. telling him your 'republican/conservative thinking' is going to do little good.

It seems you're attempting to shift from your original point to our two party system. I could be missing you point......

On the parties.... I have a state senator here in Colorado that is a dem and pro gun. She is rare and I have offered to support her. The problem with doing that is if dems have a majority in the senate and house in Colorado they get to set up all the committees and run the show. Like it or not dems are the party of gun control for the last 40 years or so.

Make no mistake, there are plenty of those old school blue blood republicans that are anti gun. Don't forget, the Reagan conservatives do not run the republican party any more.

I will fear the politician that wants to expand the Patriot Act AND go for more gun control, party be damned.

There, that's a from the hip shotgun version of my position.

DABTL
April 08, 2007, 09:52
Originally posted by Low Drag


Well that's and obtuse reply if I ever saw one.

But I detect that you think telling your dem rep to vote pro gun is a waste of time?



It seems you're attempting to shift from your original point to our two party system. I could be missing you point......

On the parties.... I have a state senator here in Colorado that is a dem and pro gun. She is rare and I have offered to support her. The problem with doing that is if dems have a majority in the senate and house in Colorado they get to set up all the committees and run the show. Like it or not dems are the party of gun control for the last 40 years or so.

Make no mistake, there are plenty of those old school blue blood republicans that are anti gun. Don't forget, the Reagan conservatives do not run the republican party any more.

I will fear the politician that wants to expand the Patriot Act AND go for more gun control, party be damned.

There, that's a from the hip shotgun version of my position.

Let me make is simple enough for Ned in the third grade.

Rattling on about being a Republican while attempting to persuade a Democratic Rep. is useless. Worse than useless.

You can persuade or repulse with your mouth. Get a reputation for calling Democrats socialists, touting Republicans as the only hope and claiming the majority party is dumb will only get you isolated. That is what gun owners have been doing for a decade. Now, they have no friends in the Democratic camp and must start over.

Understand?

TheJokker
April 08, 2007, 10:03
Originally posted by DABTL


Let me make is simple enough for Ned in the third grade.

Rattling on about being a Republican while attempting to persuade a Democratic Rep. is useless. Worse than useless.

You can persuade or repulse with your mouth. Get a reputation for calling Democrats socialists, touting Republicans as the only hope and claiming the majority party is dumb will only get you isolated. That is what gun owners have been doing for a decade. Now, they have no friends in the Democratic camp and must start over.

Understand?
take your own advice...

Bawana jim
April 08, 2007, 10:07
Originally posted by DABTL


Let me make is simple enough for Ned in the third grade.

Rattling on about being a Republican while attempting to persuade a Democratic Rep. is useless. Worse than useless.

You can persuade or repulse with your mouth. Get a reputation for calling Democrats socialists, touting Republicans as the only hope and claiming the majority party is dumb will only get you isolated. That is what gun owners have been doing for a decade. Now, they have no friends in the Democratic camp and must start over.

Understand?

Let me make it simple for you Dabs:biggrin: :biggrin: We have no friends in the Democrat camp nor in Osamas camp so it will end in a fight. Will the gun owners win or the gunless democrats? Are they going to get the conservative military to protect them as they try to take away our constitutional rights? Kinda understand why you hate the military now.

jim

Low Drag
April 08, 2007, 10:11
Originally posted by DABTL


Let me make is simple enough for Ned in the third grade.

Rattling on about being a Republican while attempting to persuade a Democratic Rep. is useless. Worse than useless.

You can persuade or repulse with your mouth. Get a reputation for calling Democrats socialists, touting Republicans as the only hope and claiming the majority party is dumb will only get you isolated. That is what gun owners have been doing for a decade. Now, they have no friends in the Democratic camp and must start over.

Understand?

Why don't you tell me where you sit on the political/idealogical spectrum before you try to tell me where you stand on an issue. Understand?

Now I will address your comments directly, something you don't seem to do. You should try it. I'm beginning to form an opinion on you. Do you work in the education system at any level?

Yes you can persuade or repulse with you words. Only a fool attempts to persuade by being rude and disrespectful. I can make my points to an anti gun democrat without being rude.

I work with a grass roots pro gun group here in Colorado and we cultivate relationships with the few pro gun democrats. BUT, when dems are in charge they get to set the agenda and committees. With a dem majority we can only hope that the few pro gun dems will stand by their principles.

The fact is liberal democrats in America today are socialists. I don't think it's a waste of time to make pro gun points to a liberal dem in the correct forum.

Oh, knock off the comments about trying to keep things simple (Ned in the third grade). You're arrogant and it's getting old, hence my question if you work in the education system. Try being less obtuse and stop thinking you're the smartest guy in room.

Bawana jim
April 08, 2007, 10:23
:rofl: :rofl: :biggrin:

jim

Derby FALs
April 08, 2007, 10:39
Originally posted by Bawana jim


:wink: got to love your kind of thinking. The democrats have murdered over 10 million babies and call it abortion yet you vote for them. The repubs want no child left behind in education and you seem to think that is a tradgedy. Guess you got your reasons to want kids killed and you certianly vote for the right party.

jim

You only know how I'm registered. You should have an idea how I vote but it doesn't appear so. My big gripe is abortion and education are federally regulated.

DABTL
April 08, 2007, 10:39
Originally posted by Low Drag


Why don't you tell me where you sit on the political/idealogical spectrum before you try to tell me where you stand on an issue. Understand?

Now I will address your comments directly, something you don't seem to do. You should try it. I'm beginning to form an opinion on you. Do you work in the education system at any level?

Yes you can persuade or repulse with you words. Only a fool attempts to persuade by being rude and disrespectful. I can make my points to an anti gun democrat without being rude.

I work with a grass roots pro gun group here in Colorado and we cultivate relationships with the few pro gun democrats. BUT, when dems are in charge they get to set the agenda and committees. With a dem majority we can only hope that the few pro gun dems will stand by their principles.

The fact is liberal democrats in America today are socialists. I don't think it's a waste of time to make pro gun points to a liberal dem in the correct forum.

Oh, knock off the comments about trying to keep things simple (Ned in the third grade). You're arrogant and it's getting old, hence my question if you work in the education system. Try being less obtuse and stop thinking you're the smartest guy in room.

And you wonder why people ignore your opinions? Carry on.

Low Drag
April 08, 2007, 10:46
Originally posted by DABTL


And you wonder why people ignore your opinions? Carry on.

Prior to this post my I was attempting to be respectful and polite and not insult like you did. But you don't seem to respond to direct, respectful dialog.

Soooooo, dodge, duck run away.

You're obtuse. Or as Fog Horn Leg Horn would say: "Boy you 'bout as shaaarp as a bowl'in ball.


Like I said, you must work in education. You like to spew your opinion/pontificate/lecture, not have a discussion. Of course I could take the high road and conclude you just don't get it and treat you accordingly.

I'm pretty much done here, I'm sure you'll conclude that's because you're such a good debater. A legend in your own mind.

HughJass
April 08, 2007, 12:41
Bill,

So it does no good to come at anti-gun Dem's with an opposing view and a superior attitude, combined with name calling? WTF do you do here in most every post?

What's good advice for the goose is good advice for the geezer, er...."gander".

Practice what you preach.:rolleyes:

DABTL
April 08, 2007, 13:01
Originally posted by HughJass
Bill,

So it does no good to come at anti-gun Dem's with an opposing view and a superior attitude, combined with name calling? WTF do you do here in most every post?

What's good advice for the goose is good advice for the geezer, er...."gander".

Practice what you preach.:rolleyes:

No name calling, just pointing out that if you are a Republican trying to win friends with Democrats it is best to leave the smart mouth behind.

PS: I am not trying to win friends with Republicans so it does not matter what I do.

HughJass
April 08, 2007, 13:12
Originally posted by DABTL


No name calling, just pointing out that if you are a Republican trying to win friends with Democrats it is best to leave the smart mouth behind.

PS: I am not trying to win friends with Republicans so it does not matter what I do.

Well, you're either trying to be persuasive, like those Repub's conversing with the Dem's are advised to do, or you're trolling.


Hmmmmm.:uhoh:

Bawana jim
April 08, 2007, 13:13
Originally posted by Derby FALs


You only know how I'm registered. You should have an idea how I vote but it doesn't appear so. My big gripe is abortion and education are federally regulated.

To vote for them is to vote for their platform. Your vote may be confidential but your words tell people how you think.

jim

DABTL
April 08, 2007, 13:17
Originally posted by HughJass


Well, you're either trying to be persuasive, like those Repub's conversing with the Dem's are advised to do, or you're trolling.


Hmmmmm.:uhoh:

I merely give out good advice to the nice Republicans. They are free to take it or leave it. Most will leave it because they cannot give up their core wingnut beliefs. For the remainder, it is good advice.

Not hearing what you want to hear does not mean trolling.

But, to each his own.

Derby FALs
April 08, 2007, 13:17
Originally posted by Bawana jim


To vote for them is to vote for their platform. Your vote may be confidential but your words tell people how you think.

jim

Most people know me as a flaming libertarian. :devil:
I will vote for whomever espouses those ideals, regardless of party affiliation. Bring on Dr. Ron Paul, baby!:bow:

cookhj
April 08, 2007, 16:05
holy cow! bill is in here! who would've ever guessed! :rofl:

River Pig
April 08, 2007, 16:50
Originally posted by DABTL


I merely give out good advice to the nice Republicans. They are free to take it or leave it. Most will leave it because they cannot give up their core wingnut beliefs. For the remainder, it is good advice.

Not hearing what you want to hear does not mean trolling.

But, to each his own.
This coming from the guy who used to use Yellow Dog Democrat as part of his nickname.
That's funny.:rofl:

DABTL
April 08, 2007, 16:54
Originally posted by River Pig

This coming from the guy who used to use Yellow Dog Democrat as part of his nickname.
That's funny.:rofl:

If you hired a consultant to advise you on how to approach Democrats you would hire one of the Bush twins? Probably, you would.

But, if you want to have any influence with the coming majority, pay attention.

No one wants to hear wingnut diatribes. Repeat as often as necessary.

I could care less how much you want to be marginalized. Big deal.

But for those who want to participate, listen up.

River Pig
April 08, 2007, 17:19
Originally posted by DABTL


If you hired a consultant to advise you on how to approach Democrats you would hire one of the Bush twins? Probably, you would.

But, if you want to have any influence with the coming majority, pay attention.

No one wants to hear wingnut diatribes. Repeat as often as necessary.

I could care less how much you want to be marginalized. Big deal.

But for those who want to participate, listen up.
:sleep: Yawner dude.
You're tilting at windmills again.

DABTL
April 08, 2007, 17:22
Originally posted by River Pig

:sleep: Yawner dude.
You're tilting at windmills again.

I agree. Who cares anymore what Republicans think? Not me. But, I did not before. Enjoy.

River Pig
April 08, 2007, 17:28
Originally posted by DABTL


I agree. Who cares anymore what Republicans think? Not me. But, I did not before. Enjoy.
So we are to care what democrats think when they are in the majority, but you never cared what republicans thought when they were in the majority?
Confusing the troll is so much fun. I sure do enjoy it.:biggrin:

DABTL
April 08, 2007, 17:32
Originally posted by River Pig

So we are to care what democrats think when they are in the majority, but you never cared what republicans thought when they were in the majority?
Confusing the troll is so much fun. I sure do enjoy it.:biggrin:

No confusion. Get over being a loser. Life is tough at times. You want to participate? Win an election. That is the Bush way now.

Windustsearch
April 08, 2007, 17:39
I could never figure out which party I despise more, I guess I just hate politicians.

HughJass
April 08, 2007, 18:29
I'm giggling as the more the Dems show their colors, the more it can be assured that Bill will be squealing AND be on the "losing side" for at least another 4 years. How bittersweet the irony - the Dems get in control of the Congress for two years just to cement the '08 election for the Republicans.

Who has an ice-cube's chance in hell of winning the Dem nomination that can win the Presidency? Errrr, lesseee, that would be, um, er, nobody.

McCain and Giuliani are the Dem's best candidates and I doubt either can get the Repub's nomination.

The Dem's have worse candidates to offer. Thompson or Romney seem to be the guys if the electorate can get over Romney's religion. If not, Thompson may be it?

Interesting, but not as much as Bill trying to not get pinned down, but in doing so, paint's his ass into a corner.:rofl:

DABTL
April 08, 2007, 18:37
Originally posted by HughJass
I'm giggling as the more the Dems show their colors, the more it can be assured that Bill will be squealing AND be on the "losing side" for at least another 4 years. How bittersweet the irony - the Dems get in control of the Congress for two years just to cement the '08 election for the Republicans.

Who has an ice-cube's chance in hell of winning the Dem nomination that can win the Presidency? Errrr, lesseee, that would be, um, er, nobody.

McCain and Giuliani are the Dem's best candidates and I doubt either can get the Repub's nomination.

The Dem's have worse candidates to offer. Thompson or Romney seem to be the guys if the electorate can get over Romney's religion. If not, Thompson may be it?

Interesting, but not as much as Bill trying to not get pinned down, but in doing so, paint's his ass into a corner.:rofl:

With all due respect, the Republicans are so far down on everyone's list that a barking dog leads the way for them.

Thompson is too old, too Republican and has no record of anything other than being a pretty old man.

I do think his choice of Lorrie Morgan as a sweetheart some time back was wise. Much better than Laura Bush.

But, we shall see. Perhaps Bush will have some wonderful victory in Iraq for his legacy.

william013
April 08, 2007, 18:58
You have to remember that they are ALL politicians. The parties do not have the control thay use to have. So about all you can do is support the ones that are closer to your line of thinking. As for DABTL - he is an attorney by trade. He comes here to debate the issues. So debate with him, he needs the practice!:biggrin: :cool:

HughJass
April 08, 2007, 19:11
Good point. I think I have the dream team that will take the country in the right direction, if they can kiss and make up!

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/barackobama_26201.jpg

English Mike
April 08, 2007, 19:23
Originally posted by DABTL

.....because they cannot give up their core wingnut beliefs.....



It's far better to be a "wingnut" than a Barking Moonbat.:tongue:

You seem to have missed the fact that many Republicans abhor Bush but despise current Democratic policies.

Why should they support a Party that wishes to abrogate the Constitution?

DABTL
April 08, 2007, 19:25
Originally posted by ENGLISH MIKE


It's far better to be a "wingnut" than a Barking Moonbat.:tongue:

You seem to have missed the fact that many Republicans abhor Bush but despise current Democratic policies.

Why should they support a Party that wishes to abrogate the Constitution?

They do not have to support anything. They simply want to have influence. My suggestion is to not make a bunch of wingnut diatribes while seeking to influence a legislator.

Republicans love Bush. You missed that point. It has nothing to do with Iraq, conservatism, smaller government or leadership. It is about an authoritarian leader herding the sheep.

English Mike
April 08, 2007, 19:25
Originally posted by Windustsearch
I could never figure out which party I despise more, I guess I just hate politicians.

I doubt that a more reasoned post will be made in this thread:bow: :bow:

English Mike
April 08, 2007, 19:32
Originally posted by DABTL
..Republicans love Bush...

There lies the fallacy in your reasoning: I doubt that 10% of diehard Republicans see him as anything but a bumbling neocon fool.

Unfortunately the leading contenders for '08 from BOTH parties appear to fit the same mould.

Unless a candidate who eschews Populism steps forward, I fear for the future of Western Society & not just the US.

River Pig
April 08, 2007, 20:07
Originally posted by DABTL


No confusion. Get over being a loser. Life is tough at times. You want to participate? Win an election. That is the Bush way now.
Won every election I voted for in '06. Go to admit that I didn't vote for a senator since it was an airhead against a spacehead but my governor and house rep both won. Can you say as much? Guess I get to "participate" more then you do.
If dems "stay the course" I'll be voting for the winners in that election as well.

River Pig
April 08, 2007, 20:11
Originally posted by william013
As for DABTL - he is an attorney by trade. He comes here to debate the issues. So debate with him, he needs the practice!:biggrin: :cool:
Saying Bill comes here to debate the issues is like saying the guy shooting the starting gun comes to the track meet to race.

warbird
April 08, 2007, 21:48
Originally posted by redbug
[B]Can someone explain to me the rationale of why on earth a firearms enthusiast / gunowner would choose to be supportive of the democratic party in any way?.... How could one be ok with having the likes of Ted Kennedy, Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Palosi, Harry Reid, Chuck Schummer, Joe Biden, Charles Rangle, and all their other fellow low lifes as the main leaders?

Answer the question, dabtl

Bawana jim
April 08, 2007, 23:28
Originally posted by DABTL


If you hired a consultant to advise you on how to approach Democrats you would hire one of the Bush twins? Probably, you would.

But, if you want to have any influence with the coming majority, pay attention.

No one wants to hear wingnut diatribes. Repeat as often as necessary.

I could care less how much you want to be marginalized. Big deal.

But for those who want to participate, listen up.

The only things politicions understand are power and money. They listen to nobody unless they get money from them. It isn't a matter of paying attention it's just pay them to get what you want. There is no soul in either party and both are run by lawyers who help them get away with their crap. Git rid of the lawyers and politicions and this would be a great country.

jim

Low Drag
April 13, 2007, 07:03
For you dems that "feel" democrats are "forced" to "go along" with gun control.

Hope you like apples:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1022

Now AWB, how do you like them apples?

NHBandit
April 13, 2007, 08:11
Bill if you really want to be a good Democrat please enlighten us on why we should vote Democratic. Maybe you'll convince a few. Keep in mind though that were are all gun owners and we frequent this site because our choice of weapons happens to be "evil assault rifles" Give us facts instead of trick answers and insults and explain to our dumb asses why supporting the Democrats will benefit us in keeping our second amendment rights. Just this once cut out the lawyerspeak and tell us where YOU stand on the second amendment and whether or not you support those politicians who are frothing at the mouth over the idea of taking away our hobby. This is a legitimate request and not meant as an insult towards you or either party in any way. In fact you're probably a nice guy and we have never entered into a "pissing contest" on any issues. The only time we've ever conversed was when you answered some questions about a Garand I bought. I don't hate lawyers, in fact the couple of times I needed one I'm damn glad I had one (divorces). I am honestly curious where you stand on these issues and if you support the gun control fanatics or not (if so why are you here?) Thanks

CZ-75a
April 13, 2007, 10:36
Originally posted by DABTL


Let me make is simple enough for Ned in the third grade.

Rattling on about being a Republican while attempting to persuade a Democratic Rep. is useless. Worse than useless.

You can persuade or repulse with your mouth. Get a reputation for calling Democrats socialists, touting Republicans as the only hope and claiming the majority party is dumb will only get you isolated. That is what gun owners have been doing for a decade. Now, they have no friends in the Democratic camp and must start over.

Understand?

When did we have any friends in the "democratic" camp? "Fair-weather," if at all. Perhaps when the dims become more friendly, we'll reciprocate.

redbug
April 13, 2007, 12:45
Originally posted by DABTL


Let me make is simple enough for Ned in the third grade.

Rattling on about being a Republican while attempting to persuade a Democratic Rep. is useless. Worse than useless.

You can persuade or repulse with your mouth. Get a reputation for calling Democrats socialists, touting Republicans as the only hope and claiming the majority party is dumb will only get you isolated. That is what gun owners have been doing for a decade. Now, they have no friends in the Democratic camp and must start over.

Understand?



Bill,
Even though you don't agree with certain words and phrases used to describe democrats, I was hoping you might be able to answer StarPD's questions in earlier post. I think most of us are curious about why you believe the democrats are America's best hope. In addition to StarPD's questions, which should be very easy for a loyal democrat to answer, what solutions do democratic leaders have for the war on terrorism and the invasion from Mexico? Also, how can you deny the historic socialist tendancies of the democratic party. The biggest problem I have with republicans is their willingness to cave in so easily to the dems but, they seem to be the lesser of two evils.

Steve



[FOLLOWING QUOTE] StarPD
Simple.
Make a list of activist anti-gun democommies.
Then make a list of activist anti-gun R.I.N.O.s.

Count them up, then check out their voting records in that light.

Finally check out the agenda and voting records of democommie committee chairs, and spokesmen.



__________________
George
StarPD

redbug
April 15, 2007, 16:05
The silence is deafening. :confused: Oh well, just more confirmation of how empty and morally bankrupt the democratic party really is.

Low Drag
April 15, 2007, 17:15
Originally posted by redbug
The silence is deafening. :confused: Oh well, just more confirmation of how empty and morally bankrupt the democratic party really is.

I don't post here much but this was like a thread at Glock Talk in the politics section. I ask a straight question and get a resumption of a monologue from the dems. Very rarely a dialogue unless we on the right are call stupid in one form or another (Ned in the 3rd grade etc).

DABTL
April 15, 2007, 18:13
Originally posted by redbug




Bill,
Even though you don't agree with certain words and phrases used to describe democrats, I was hoping you might be able to answer StarPD's questions in earlier post. I think most of us are curious about why you believe the democrats are America's best hope. In addition to StarPD's questions, which should be very easy for a loyal democrat to answer, what solutions do democratic leaders have for the war on terrorism and the invasion from Mexico? Also, how can you deny the historic socialist tendancies of the democratic party. The biggest problem I have with republicans is their willingness to cave in so easily to the dems but, they seem to be the lesser of two evils.

Steve



[FOLLOWING QUOTE] StarPD
Simple.
Make a list of activist anti-gun democommies.
Then make a list of activist anti-gun R.I.N.O.s.

Count them up, then check out their voting records in that light.

Finally check out the agenda and voting records of democommie committee chairs, and spokesmen.



__________________
George
StarPD

The Republican Party is dead. Any other questions?

redbug
April 15, 2007, 19:57
Originally posted by DABTL


The Republican Party is dead. Any other questions?


Well, we never got any of the other questions answered. Oh, and I don't remember asking anything about the republican party being dead but, thanks anyway.

Sighhhhhh........I guess it's my fault for answering an obviously very difficult question. You could have at least tried to make up something for Pete's sake. l :rolleyes:

Low Drag
April 15, 2007, 20:04
Originally posted by redbug



Well, we never got any of the other questions answered. Oh, and I don't remember asking anything about the republican party being dead but, thanks anyway.

Sighhhhhh........I guess it's my fault for answering an obviously very difficult question. You could have at least tried to make up something for Pete's sake. l :rolleyes:

I'm sticking my my theory the dems here work in the education system and are used to lecturing, not answering questions in a conversation. :biggrin:

redbug
April 15, 2007, 20:16
Originally posted by Low Drag


I'm sticking my my theory the dems here work in the education system and are used to lecturing, not answering questions in a conversation. :biggrin:



I must agree. You would think that, after running into this type dishonesty every time I have tried to ask other dems same type of questions, that I would have learned by now. Pure brainwashing!

Low Drag
April 15, 2007, 20:24
Originally posted by redbug




I must agree. You would think that, after running into this type dishonesty every time I have tried to ask other dems same type of questions, that I would have learned by now. Pure brainwashing!

I work with a grass roots pro gun org here in Colorado and work the gun shows. Dems avoid us like crazy, guys with union hats/jackets etc. They know they have a hard time reconciling their political choices and their gun rights. From what I see they hate guys like me reminding them.

DABTL
April 15, 2007, 20:36
Originally posted by Low Drag


I work with a grass roots pro gun org here in Colorado and work the gun shows. Dems avoid us like crazy, guys with union hats/jackets etc. They know they have a hard time reconciling their political choices and their gun rights. From what I see they hate guys like me reminding them.

Mostly they probably just dislike you and your Republican cronies.

Remember, you are known by the company you keep. Hanging out with the
Bushies now is a known problem.

Remember also that just because you own a gun, does not make you a political expert.

Try to persuade rather than mock, deride or challenge those whom you would convert.

DABTL
April 15, 2007, 20:37
Originally posted by redbug



Well, we never got any of the other questions answered. Oh, and I don't remember asking anything about the republican party being dead but, thanks anyway.

Sighhhhhh........I guess it's my fault for answering an obviously very difficult question. You could have at least tried to make up something for Pete's sake. l :rolleyes:

The answer is simple. Deal with those in power, not with wannabes. Wannabes cannot pass a single bill. Your love of the Republican Party will not pass anything now. Get over it.

redbug
April 15, 2007, 20:55
Originally posted by DABTL


The answer is simple. Deal with those in power, not with wannabes. Wannabes cannot pass a single bill. Your love of the Republican Party will not pass anything now. Get over it.


I neither "love" the republican party nor approve of many of their actions. I am NOT a republican. You need to get over that fact. Does this cause problem with your diatribe since I am not a koolaid drinker which BTW, describes yellow dog democrats such as yourself. Just who is the one not at grips with reality here?

How do you propose to "deal with those in power" when those in power are so radically opposed to traditional American values; one of them being the 2nd amendment? What common ground will you have? You cannot change what the democrat party stands for or are you just too far gone to understand this.

As far as passing a bill or doing anything constructive; just what sort of good do you expect from such inept clowns as the leaders of the democrat party.

Signed yours truly, a "non-republican", "non-Bushie"

Low Drag
April 15, 2007, 21:11
Originally posted by DABTL


Mostly they probably just dislike you and your Republican cronies.

Remember, you are known by the company you keep. Hanging out with the
Bushies now is a known problem.

Remember also that just because you own a gun, does not make you a political expert.

Try to persuade rather than mock, deride or challenge those whom you would convert.

You've been deriding me since I posted here as I attempt to have a conversation. Why?

How in the heck do you know who I hang out with? When I work a pro gun cause I do not talk about other political issues. But it makes you feel better to deride it would seem.

I know I'm not a political expert, I know more than the average bear but I'm no expert. So why do you feel the need to tell me I'm not? Are you a political expert?

I did try to have a conversation, this is the closest you've come up to this point and all you do is insult me.

Remember, 80% of communication is body language, about 15% is tone/inflection and the remaining 5% is the words we use. (I just gave you some pearls that you could use to key in on pre-assault behavior) Heck all we have is the written word here. Yet you seem to always assume the worst. Hum, a bit of projection on your part?

Oh, if you're in the Denver area you're welcome to visit with me for a chat or come by the Firearm Coalition table if you make it to a gun show.

DABTL
April 15, 2007, 21:11
Originally posted by redbug



I neither "love" the republican party nor approve of many of their actions. I am NOT a republican. You need to get over that fact. Does this cause problem with your diatribe since I am not a koolaid drinker which BTW, describes yellow dog democrats such as yourself. Just who is the one not at grips with reality here?

How do you propose to "deal with those in power" when those in power are so radically opposed to traditional American values; one of them being the 2nd amendment? What common ground will you have? You cannot change what the democrat party stands for or are you just too far gone to understand this.

As far as passing a bill or doing anything constructive; just what sort of good do you expect from such inept clowns as the leaders of the democrat party.

Signed yours truly, a "non-republican", "non-Bushie"

Try not being completely obnoxious. This may be a new concept for you. Persuasion is the answer. But, that may be beyond your abilities.

Powderfinger
April 15, 2007, 21:19
Originally posted by HughJass
Good point. I think I have the dream team that will take the country in the right direction, if they can kiss and make up!

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/barackobama_26201.jpg

That dude's choppers remind me of the "croc eats man" thread.
Shivers...

Dirt1042
April 15, 2007, 21:39
I don't see the current repubs being very gun friendly. Where is all the ammo? Why are the parts kits banned from further importation? Why are receivers and barrels banned from being imported? What is this administration thinking while doing this? Why is this being unchallenged? It seems no one washington cares what's already going on with gun rights. :(

I guess the UN's/ U.S. governments solution to keep the "EVIL" guns out of our hands is too choke the surplus (cheap) ammo out of the common black rifle owners' hands. As the saying goes, "a guns no good with out ammo".

warbird
April 15, 2007, 21:45
Originally posted by redbug
Can someone explain to me the rationale of why on earth a firearms enthusiast / gunowner would choose to be supportive of the democratic party in any way? It is common knowledge they are pushing for socialism but, as a whole, they also favor extreme gun control and probably even total confiscation. How could one be ok with having the likes of Ted Kennedy, Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Palosi, Harry Reid, Chuck Schummer, Joe Biden, Charles Rangle, and all their other fellow low lifes as the main leaders?


Answer the question, dabtl!

And how is dabtl going to "persuade" the likes of Ted Kennedy, Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Read, Chuck Schumer, Joe Biden, Charles Rangle, et al, that common citizens have an individual right to own firearms, including EBR's? As a loyal Democrat surely you must have some influence over them.:wink:

Low Drag
April 15, 2007, 21:47
Originally posted by Dirt1042
I don't see the current repubs being very gun friendly. Where is all the ammo? Why are the parts kits banned from further importation? Why are receivers and barrels banned from being imported? What is this administration thinking while doing this? Why is this being unchallenged? It seems no one washington cares what's already going on with gun rights. :(

I guess the UN's/ U.S. governments solution to keep the "EVIL" guns out of our hands is too choke the surplus (cheap) ammo out of the common black rifle owners' hands. As the saying goes, "a guns no good with out ammo".

What new gun control laws have been enacted in the last 6 years? Did I miss something?

skeeterbay
April 15, 2007, 22:44
Gosh I hate to make a comment, but I just can't help myself :cry:

Bill for the record I hate where this country has gone in the last 6 years! Economy is in the tank! We seem to be loosing rights like a runaway train! Big business is getting richer while the poor and middle class are getting the shaft! Truthfully I believe this is the worst adminstration in God knows how long!

But hey it ain't all this adminstrations fault either. Need we any reminders as to how many Dem's stood by and voted for that war in Iraq that you hate so much? I wonder how many Dem's supported the patriot act? How about some of that pork added to bills I have been seeing! You figure the Dem's had nothing to do with all that? Can we say Tuna?

Your right about one thing Bill. A lot of Republicans are unhappy with this adminstration. But they are just as unhappy with the Dems as well! You seem to think that just because the Dem's won the majority that the Republican party is "Dead", your words! Your a smart man Bill, no doubt more so than I. But I think your way off on this one!

I was half way hoping that the last election would have been a wake up call. That the Dem's would have seen the light and realized that they had a chance to take a reasonable middle ground and do some good. I also half way hoped the Republicans that were left would see the light as well. I am sorry to say it didn't happen. Just as soon as the Dem's got in power, out came the gun bills and more pork to pay back friends for money and support! Just like the Republicans did when they got in power! The Dem's just don't get it! We are all looking and hoping for things to get better. Nobody wants to see America flounder!

Face it Bill the Dem's are just as bad as the Republicans. The only difference is if your a gun owner. Then the Dem's are worse! Just as the voters attempted to teach the Republicans a leason last election. So to they will teach the Dem's a lesson in the next election! It will go back in forth until finally Americans get so sick of it that they try a third party! Let's face it every year both sides loose more and more ground with the American public! It's just a matter of time till one party gets smart or a third party takes over!

Bill you polk at the guys who blindly take the Republican side. The way I see it, your no better with taking the Dem's side. Both parties are disfunctional and full of thieves! Right now we got a choice as gun owners. Pick a party that does very little to help our cause and screws every thing up. Or pick a party that drags out every type of gun control they can think of, every chance they get and still screws things up! Which side do you want to cheer for?

Heck of choice ain't it!


Skeeter!

Bawana jim
April 15, 2007, 22:47
Originally posted by DABTL


Try not being completely obnoxious. This may be a new concept for you. Persuasion is the answer. But, that may be beyond your abilities.

:rofl: :rofl: God almighty Dabs you are so funny you make my sides hurt. Anyone who has been here a while knows that you can't persuade anyone to your side on the topics.:rofl: Damn, your such a pompus ass when you post I get the giggles to think the new guys might believe your something.:rofl:

Alot of us know liberals have a mental dissorder and you prove it by what you post. The idea that any gun owner is ever going to pursuade a liberal democrat to stay away from gun control is insanity. Liberals don't have the capacity to be reasonable because they run on emotion not logic.

So they have stopped listening, this is nothing new as they never did listen to gun owners untill they lost congress. Now that they think they have it back they quit acting like they cared. It is all an act cause as soon as they got back in power they backstabbed the public with more gun control.

The reality is Dabs that when those in power quit listening the volume will get turned up. That is what happened to the repubs and the dems will get the same.

Your a liberal lemming with your blinders on and running for the Koolaide.

jim

DABTL
April 16, 2007, 04:05
Originally posted by warbird


Answer the question, dabtl!

And how is dabtl going to "persuade" the likes of Ted Kennedy, Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Read, Chuck Schumer, Joe Biden, Charles Rangle, et al, that common citizens have an individual right to own firearms, including EBR's? As a loyal Democrat surely you must have some influence over them.:wink:

Eight votes from a possible 535? You surely can count better than that.

DABTL
April 16, 2007, 04:06
Originally posted by Bawana jim


:rofl: :rofl: God almighty Dabs you are so funny you make my sides hurt. Anyone who has been here a while knows that you can't persuade anyone to your side on the topics.:rofl: Damn, your such a pompus ass when you post I get the giggles to think the new guys might believe your something.:rofl:

Alot of us know liberals have a mental dissorder and you prove it by what you post. The idea that any gun owner is ever going to pursuade a liberal democrat to stay away from gun control is insanity. Liberals don't have the capacity to be reasonable because they run on emotion not logic.

So they have stopped listening, this is nothing new as they never did listen to gun owners untill they lost congress. Now that they think they have it back they quit acting like they cared. It is all an act cause as soon as they got back in power they backstabbed the public with more gun control.

The reality is Dabs that when those in power quit listening the volume will get turned up. That is what happened to the repubs and the dems will get the same.

Your a liberal lemming with your blinders on and running for the Koolaide.

jim

Your Bush Derangement Syndrome is on full display.

DABTL
April 16, 2007, 04:11
Originally posted by skeeterbay
Gosh I hate to make a comment, but I just can't help myself :cry:

Bill for the record I hate where this country has gone in the last 6 years! Economy is in the tank! We seem to be loosing rights like a runaway train! Big business is getting richer while the poor and middle class are getting the shaft! Truthfully I believe this is the worst adminstration in God knows how long!

But hey it ain't all this adminstrations fault either. Need we any reminders as to how many Dem's stood by and voted for that war in Iraq that you hate so much? I wonder how many Dem's supported the patriot act? How about some of that pork added to bills I have been seeing! You figure the Dem's had nothing to do with all that? Can we say Tuna?

Your right about one thing Bill. A lot of Republicans are unhappy with this adminstration. But they are just as unhappy with the Dems as well! You seem to think that just because the Dem's won the majority that the Republican party is "Dead", your words! Your a smart man Bill, no doubt more so than I. But I think your way off on this one!

I was half way hoping that the last election would have been a wake up call. That the Dem's would have seen the light and realized that they had a chance to take a reasonable middle ground and do some good. I also half way hoped the Republicans that were left would see the light as well. I am sorry to say it didn't happen. Just as soon as the Dem's got in power, out came the gun bills and more pork to pay back friends for money and support! Just like the Republicans did when they got in power! The Dem's just don't get it! We are all looking and hoping for things to get better. Nobody wants to see America flounder!

Face it Bill the Dem's are just as bad as the Republicans. The only difference is if your a gun owner. Then the Dem's are worse! Just as the voters attempted to teach the Republicans a leason last election. So to they will teach the Dem's a lesson in the next election! It will go back in forth until finally Americans get so sick of it that they try a third party! Let's face it every year both sides loose more and more ground with the American public! It's just a matter of time till one party gets smart or a third party takes over!

Bill you polk at the guys who blindly take the Republican side. The way I see it, your no better with taking the Dem's side. Both parties are disfunctional and full of thieves! Right now we got a choice as gun owners. Pick a party that does very little to help our cause and screws every thing up. Or pick a party that drags out every type of gun control they can think of, every chance they get and still screws things up! Which side do you want to cheer for?

Heck of choice ain't it!


Skeeter!

Not everything is a monolithic bloc. Not every Republican is an evangelical, commie hating, gay bashing, gun friendly person.

The Democrats are not all like Charlie Rangle.

Generally, the Republican Party is the representative of the wealthy. Bush is no exception.

As another general rule labor unions and the Democratic Party are the saviors of the middle class.

The trick is to find common ground with your individual representative. I could care less how much you may hate or dislike or will never vote for Charlie Rangle. He is not in your district and you have little or no sway over him.

All political action is local, in the final analysis.

Low Drag
April 16, 2007, 07:10
Originally posted by Dirt1042
I don't see the current repubs being very gun friendly. Where is all the ammo? Why are the parts kits banned from further importation? Why are receivers and barrels banned from being imported? What is this administration thinking while doing this? Why is this being unchallenged? It seems no one washington cares what's already going on with gun rights.

I guess the UN's/ U.S. governments solution to keep the "EVIL" guns out of our hands is too choke the surplus (cheap) ammo out of the common black rifle owners' hands. As the saying goes, "a guns no good with out ammo".



Originally posted by Low Drag


What new gun control laws have been enacted in the last 6 years? Did I miss something?

I realize some folks my not hang out here all the time but I'll try again for an answer to my direct, polite question.

skeeterbay

Economy in the tank? Dude, what's your definition of that?
Wow, there are less than 5% of the population looking for a job that can't find one (that's full employment BTW) and the DOW is now well over 12K.

DABTL
April 16, 2007, 07:24
Originally posted by Low Drag





I realize some folks my not hang out here all the time but I'll try again for an answer to my direct, polite question.

skeeterbay

Economy in the tank? Dude, what's your definition of that?
Wow, there are less than 5% of the population looking for a job that can't find one (that's full employment BTW) and the DOW is now well over 12K.

How about the ban on importing kits? Has that been repealed yet?

With a wonderful DOW, highest ever corporate exec salaries and huge profits by the publicly held corporations why would anyone care that wages have been stagnant and the outsourcing of our industrial base continues at a rapid pace?

Low Drag
April 16, 2007, 07:35
Originally posted by DABTL


How about the ban on importing kits? Has that been repealed yet?

With a wonderful DOW, highest ever corporate exec salaries and huge profits by the publicly held corporations why would anyone care that wages have been stagnant and the outsourcing of our industrial base continues at a rapid pace?

So NO NEW GUN CONTROL BILLS, from your own post. Compare that to the new AWB dems are introducing this year!!!!

Great DOW, high coprorate exec salaries? Not a big fan of open/free/classical liberal market huh?

I'm one of those guys that had a very hard time with the internet/telcom bubble bursting back in 2000/2001. The only thing constant is change and people need to have multiple skill sets.

Rebar
April 16, 2007, 08:08
Forget trying to get an honest discussion out of DABTL, you'd have a better chance teaching your dog to do mathematics. He is only here to spew out the latest moveon.org/democraticunderground/dailykos/democrat talking points propaganda, why this is tolerated on a gun board, beats me, but there it is.

Oh, and he's a lawyer for those who were wondering. He's also an unhinged frothing at the mouth moonbat, but I'm sure you figured that out on your own.

To the topic.

When the Clinton administration ended, only 10 states had shall-issue laws, gun manufacturers were being sued out of existence, and we had the AWB in full force. Today, 39 states are shall issue, manufacturers are protected, and the AWB is dead except in some democrat-controlled states. This is due to the republican party. So to state that the republicans haven't done anything for gun rights, or even worse, are no different then the democrats, is clearly wrong.

The Bush administration is no the sum-total of the party. There are 50 state parties, and most have been fighting hard for our RKBA. But because Bush is lukewarm at best on the issue, the whole party has gotten a bad rap. The answer is not to withdraw, but to get more involved in your local and state republican party.

Tomorrow's President is today's state rep or senator, help get good people in, and they might go all the way. Sit back, do nothing, then complain about your choices when the election comes, is a sure way to let the democrats win. And make no mistake - the democrat party is the party of the gun grabbers, despite the bill of goods Rosie O'DABTL is trying to sell.

redbug
April 16, 2007, 09:12
Originally posted by DABTL


Try not being completely obnoxious. This may be a new concept for you. Persuasion is the answer. But, that may be beyond your abilities.

I'm sorry if you think it's obnoxious to be called out on your irrational quips. Seeing as how you have yet to "honestly" answer anyone's questions about how or why you believe the democratic party is America's savior, you are hardly in a position to advise anyone on how to conduct themselves. What you refer to as persuasion sounds a bit like diplomacy; both have dismal records of failure and are tactics used many times by those who lack the courage to stand for any true moral convictions in the face of opposition. Instead of bobbing and weaving so much, you should try dealing with reality. Although, this may be a new concept for you.

You are wrong about it all being "local". The really important issues ARE decided on the federal level and you know darn well that the aforementioned "leaders" of the democratic party DO have the main "pursuasion" over what gets done in government.

Bawana jim
April 16, 2007, 10:06
In my opinion Dabs ability to pursuade is expected from a lawyer. However by reading his post I doubt he has much success unless the jury is predisposed to his position. If he were truely capable and cared about our gun rights he would have used his awesome power to effect change in the democrat party. The democrats comming out with more gun control shows the truth of the matter.

jim

StarPD
April 16, 2007, 10:15
DABTL giggled:

Try not being completely obnoxious. This may be a new concept for you. Persuasion is the answer. But, that may be beyond your abilities.

I find this classically ironic.
Hypocracy, thy name is DABTL.

Dirt1042
April 16, 2007, 10:53
Originally posted by Low Drag


What new gun control laws have been enacted in the last 6 years? Did I miss something?

I guess my point is there is other ways of disarming people than an out right gun ban.

1. Banning parts kits- DIY home builders and smaller manufacturing companies can't make more "evil" guns.
2. Banning receivers and barrels- see above
3. No ammo, no shooting

What vested interest does this administration have in doing this?

More lobbyist money from major gun manufacturers maybe?

Just remember politicians are in it to win it. They all will find a way to take your money and screw you.

I will have to agree with Dabtl on the point that you should be informed who you are voting for. I'm not saying to vote democrat, I'm just saying don't vote blindly because of party affiliation. There are wolves in sheeps clothing in all of politics.

redbug
April 16, 2007, 11:03
Originally posted by Dirt1042


I guess my point is there is other ways of disarming people than an out right gun ban.

1. Banning parts kits- DIY home builders and smaller manufacturing companies can't make more "evil" guns.
2. Banning receivers and barrels- see above
3. No ammo, no shooting

What vested interest does this administration have in doing this?

More lobbyist money from major gun manufacturers maybe?

Just remember politicians are in it to win it. They all will find a way to take your money and screw you.

I will have to agree with Dabtl on the point that you should be informed who you are voting for. I'm not saying to vote democrat, I'm just saying don't vote blindly because of party affiliation. There are wolves in sheeps clothing in all of politics.


Unfortunately, we are left with very few choices. Namely, the not so good (republican party) and the downright horrible (democratic party). Left with only the two; wouldn't you want to at least try to keep the dems from completely taking over? Isn't it easy enough to simply take a look at how much worse the dem's record is on, not only gun-rights, but just about everything else as well.

Dirt1042
April 16, 2007, 11:59
That is why I hope that Ron Paul or Fred Thompson can get into office.

Then there will be a balance.

The reason the Republican Party is hated right now is because the lack of balance of power. The Republicans have run roughshod and made their money, but have finally imploded and everyones pissed. This is why the Gulliani's and McCain's are considered front runners is because they are not considered staunch conservitives and the party believes that this may be the only chance to win. Regardless of certain issues, the party will try to win anyway they can.

In the last election I voted in favor of a Democrat for senate and a Republican for the House. The Democrat is Jon Tester, who has an NRA "A" rating. Tester was running against Conrad Burns who as you might know was at the top of the Jack Abramhoff lobbyist scandal. Another example of political greed shooting the Republican party in the foot.
I hope Tester remains true to his Montana roots as he has claimed. I have met the man, and he does seem genuine, but I will be the first to vote against him if he falls into party lines with the New Yorkers and Kalifornians. I think he understands this would be his last term if he did so. Most Montanans do not favor the likes of the wacky lefties and would turn back to a more conservative politician if Tester turns into more of a liberal.

I know Dabtl has some wacked out comments, but I do think he is somewhat right, ( I know it's hard to swallow ) when he says to read between the lines of these politicians. Remember alot of politicians are former lawyers, so Dabtl knows their slimy, slippery, sleazy, crooked tricks. It must be a required class in law school :biggrin:

DABTL
April 16, 2007, 15:38
Originally posted by redbug


I'm sorry if you think it's obnoxious to be called out on your irrational quips. Seeing as how you have yet to "honestly" answer anyone's questions about how or why you believe the democratic party is America's savior, you are hardly in a position to advise anyone on how to conduct themselves. What you refer to as persuasion sounds a bit like diplomacy; both have dismal records of failure and are tactics used many times by those who lack the courage to stand for any true moral convictions in the face of opposition. Instead of bobbing and weaving so much, you should try dealing with reality. Although, this may be a new concept for you.

You are wrong about it all being "local". The really important issues ARE decided on the federal level and you know darn well that the aforementioned "leaders" of the democratic party DO have the main "pursuasion" over what gets done in government.

Just as your hero is unable to find compromise on anything, you are unable to fathom that Congress is elected in your home town, just as it is in mine.

All politics, and that means Federal, are local.

But, if you need to stand tall, talk tough and insult everyone to attempt to persuade them, then continue being ignored.

After a few decades you will soon enough figure it out. Maybe.

DABTL
April 16, 2007, 15:43
Originally posted by StarPD
DABTL giggled:



I find this classically ironic.
Hypocracy, thy name is DABTL.

The arts of debate and persuasion are entirely different. It is the difference between being a loud mouth cop and being reasonable. Probably not your most familiar comparison.

DABTL
April 16, 2007, 15:45
Originally posted by redbug



Unfortunately, we are left with very few choices. Namely, the not so good (republican party) and the downright horrible (democratic party). Left with only the two; wouldn't you want to at least try to keep the dems from completely taking over? Isn't it easy enough to simply take a look at how much worse the dem's record is on, not only gun-rights, but just about everything else as well.

You get votes one at a time. Your greatest effect is locally. What can you do about someone in California? Same as I. Nothing. The Republicans love for you to think in us v. them terms, but nothing like a little truth to spoil the show. There are anti-gun Repubs.

StarPD
April 16, 2007, 18:49
DABTL choked:

The arts of debate and persuasion are entirely different. It is the difference between being a loud mouth cop and being reasonable. Probably not your most familiar comparison.

Lawer, heal thyself.

DABTL
April 16, 2007, 19:57
Originally posted by StarPD
DABTL choked:



Lawer, heal thyself.

Loud mouth, look in the mirror.

Low Drag
April 16, 2007, 20:54
Originally posted by DABTL


The arts of debate and persuasion are entirely different. It is the difference between being a loud mouth cop and being reasonable. Probably not your most familiar comparison.

Dabtl,
I've tried polite conversation in an attempt to be reasonable. You don't reply so what's new guy here to think about you. I am forming an opinion of you. (note I said forming, not already formed)

warbird
April 16, 2007, 22:00
Originally posted by DABTL


Eight votes from a possible 535? You surely can count better than that.

527

Not much of an answer dabtl...

You may be fortunate that the democratic candidates in your area are moderates or possibly even somewhat conservative. However in my area, they are true liberal socialists that would vote for any gun ban that were to come up. So... no support from me.



Answer the question, dabtl!

Low Drag
April 17, 2007, 07:25
Unfortunately we have an opportunity to WATCH dems rather than ASK dems about gun control.

DABTL
April 17, 2007, 07:59
Originally posted by warbird


527

Not much of an answer dabtl...

You may be fortunate that the democratic candidates in your area are moderates or possibly even somewhat conservative. However in my area, they are true liberal socialists that would vote for any gun ban that were to come up. So... no support from me.



Answer the question, dabtl!

Firearms legislation has been a dead issue for about ten years. Bills are introduced all the time for political advantage. Some pass some die. Big deal.

Don't like your reps, support an opponent. But, between those times when elections are being held, why not try persuasion?

Bawana jim
April 17, 2007, 08:33
Originally posted by DABTL


Firearms legislation has been a dead issue for about ten years. Bills are introduced all the time for political advantage. Some pass some die. Big deal.

Don't like your reps, support an opponent. But, between those times when elections are being held, why not try persuasion?

How do you pursuade the morons and lunitics of the democrat party who have such a mental dissorder that they won't even let others defend themselves ? Look at this last killing. The government just denied people the right to carry guns on the campus so no person was allowed to defend themsevles from a killer.

Tell me how the democrats are not resposible for this? Yes the killer pulled the trigger but the dems made it so no person had a way to defend themselves. The democrats would make us all sheep for the slaughter for control over us cause fear is a big motivator to do what your told.

I am sick to death of these gun grabbing bastards.

jim

redbug
April 17, 2007, 15:50
Originally posted by DABTL


Just as your hero is unable to find compromise on anything, you are unable to fathom that Congress is elected in your home town, just as it is in mine.

All politics, and that means Federal, are local.

But, if you need to stand tall, talk tough and insult everyone to attempt to persuade them, then continue being ignored.

After a few decades you will soon enough figure it out. Maybe.


You seem to have quite the fixation on Bush. He is no more my hero than John Edwards is yours (or is he?). As far as talking, isn't that pretty much all you have going for your assertions? Whether politicians are local of federal, are there not some basic fundamental characteristics that differentiate one party from the other? Or else, why have two separate parties? Ask Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller what happens when you push the envelope. But, I suppose you can give us an example of just how well this grand scheme of compromising and persuading is working for you?

Who is being insulting to everyone except maybe you? And who is trying to pursuade who? You seem to get bent out of of shape when your pursausion doesn't work here. You love to constantly insult and belittle Bush, the republican party and anyone who points out the clearly terrible record of failure the the democrat party has amassed. Yet, you still tout this collection of loosers as the best hope for America? Amazing! Just how many more decades will it take for you to figure out how ludicrous that is?

StarPD
April 17, 2007, 17:52
DABTL sniffed:

Loud mouth, look in the mirror.

Yawner, dude.

DABTL
April 17, 2007, 17:58
Originally posted by redbug



You seem to have quite the fixation on Bush. He is no more my hero than John Edwards is yours (or is he?). As far as talking, isn't that pretty much all you have going for your assertions? Whether politicians are local of federal, are there not some basic fundamental characteristics that differentiate one party from the other? Or else, why have two separate parties? Ask Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller what happens when you push the envelope. But, I suppose you can give us an example of just how well this grand scheme of compromising and persuading is working for you?

Who is being insulting to everyone except maybe you? And who is trying to pursuade who? You seem to get bent out of of shape when your pursausion doesn't work here. You love to constantly insult and belittle Bush, the republican party and anyone who points out the clearly terrible record of failure the the democrat party has amassed. Yet, you still tout this collection of loosers as the best hope for America? Amazing! Just how many more decades will it take for you to figure out how ludicrous that is?

I point out to you that Bush is in the mid 30's approval, Cheney cannot go lower, Gonzales is about to be indicted in all probability, our deaths in Iraq are double two years ago, the Maliki government is in the sewer, gas is about $3 per gallon and you think Democrats are losers?:rolleyes:

Bush and Rove are insuring a Democratic strangle hold on government, the potential end of the Republican Party and you don't like it? Better learn persuasion rather than talking about the 'Democrat' Party hotshot.:biggrin:

warbird
April 17, 2007, 22:03
Originally posted by NHBandit
Bill if you really want to be a good Democrat please enlighten us on why we should vote Democratic. Maybe you'll convince a few. Keep in mind though that were are all gun owners and we frequent this site because our choice of weapons happens to be "evil assault rifles" Give us facts instead of trick answers and insults and explain to our dumb asses why supporting the Democrats will benefit us in keeping our second amendment rights. Just this once cut out the lawyerspeak and tell us where YOU stand on the second amendment and whether or not you support those politicians who are frothing at the mouth over the idea of taking away our hobby. This is a legitimate request and not meant as an insult towards you or either party in any way. In fact you're probably a nice guy and we have never entered into a "pissing contest" on any issues. The only time we've ever conversed was when you answered some questions about a Garand I bought. I don't hate lawyers, in fact the couple of times I needed one I'm damn glad I had one (divorces). I am honestly curious where you stand on these issues and if you support the gun control fanatics or not (if so why are you here?) Thanks


Answer the question, dabtl!

Low Drag
April 18, 2007, 07:12
Well in surfing the web it seems dems are baulking at new gun control, at least for now.


They want Congress and the White House in 08 and they know they will loose both if new gun control is proposed. If Bush signs it, well that's another issue. I bet he won't because he and the republicans have their eye on 08 too.

Remember folks, what we need is to get out and actually support pro gun candidates. Stuff envelopes, make phone calls all the grunt work. Politely let them know you're a gun guy and what to support a pro gun candidate.

Here's the key, they have to have a certain amount of work done by volunteers or they won't get federal campaign bucks.

DABTL
April 18, 2007, 07:27
Originally posted by NHBandit
Bill if you really want to be a good Democrat please enlighten us on why we should vote Democratic. Maybe you'll convince a few. Keep in mind though that were are all gun owners and we frequent this site because our choice of weapons happens to be "evil assault rifles" Give us facts instead of trick answers and insults and explain to our dumb asses why supporting the Democrats will benefit us in keeping our second amendment rights. Just this once cut out the lawyerspeak and tell us where YOU stand on the second amendment and whether or not you support those politicians who are frothing at the mouth over the idea of taking away our hobby. This is a legitimate request and not meant as an insult towards you or either party in any way. In fact you're probably a nice guy and we have never entered into a "pissing contest" on any issues. The only time we've ever conversed was when you answered some questions about a Garand I bought. I don't hate lawyers, in fact the couple of times I needed one I'm damn glad I had one (divorces). I am honestly curious where you stand on these issues and if you support the gun control fanatics or not (if so why are you here?) Thanks

The reason to vote Democratic is very simple. They are in charge and it would appear going to be even more in charge after 2008.

Frankly, gun control has been dead since 1999 as a political issue. Even Gore found it did not have an impact among Democrats. Now this conflicts with the NRA view that everything is in panic mode. It also means as a rule gun owners are incapable of seeing small threats as opposed to large threats. But that is no surprise.

No trick answers. No reason exists to blindly vote for Republicans thinking it will have an effect when they will be effectively on the sidelines for some years. It is going to do you little good to walk around talking about the 'Democrat' Party to your Democratic Party elected official. Get the picture?

NHBandit
April 18, 2007, 08:08
Let me try this again..... "Just this once cut out the lawyerspeak and tell us where YOU stand on the second amendment and whether or not you support those politicians who are frothing at the mouth over the idea of taking away our hobby. This is a legitimate request" I'm simply asking for YOUR opinion on this issue, not who you predict will win in 08. I'm also curious if you will blindly vote for every Democrat who runs for office even if they are one of those who is rabidly anti gun. The events in Virginia yesterday gave them alot of ammunition towards scaring the public into believing that more gun controls will somehow stop these nutcases. They will ignore the fact that the guy had the doors chained shut and also commited suicide and could have just as easily killed those students and himself with a bomb made from stuff available at Home Depot.

River Pig
April 18, 2007, 08:14
Originally posted by DABTL


The reason to vote Democratic is very simple. They are in charge and it would appear going to be even more in charge after 2008.


So is it then reasonable to assume that you voted for republicans for congress between 1994 and 2006?
And you must have voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004 since your think the only way to get things done is to vote for the people in charge.
I never would have guessed you were a closet republican when the republicans were winning. Did you also stop chearing for the Cowboys when they started losing?

ephv
April 18, 2007, 08:21
Bill posted--
I am always amazed at how immature gun owners act. If you read what you post then you cannot expect much from Democratic politicians. Salesmanship appears to be name calling and phoney political analysis. If you want to vote for Republicans that is fine and dandy. But if you want to have some influence you have to open your minds. Blindly repeating wingnut diatribes about Democrats limits your option to Republicans only. So be it.

But, when things are as they now are, having influence with a minority is not much influence at all.

Just as was demonstrated a couple of years ago, many Republicans will vote for gun control, they just did not have to expose themselves. Many Democrats had to vote for gun control although they did not want to do so. It was all a matter of where the voters were in their district. If you live in a district represented by a Democrat it is not much use babbling about the Republican Party when it is time for the politicians to vote. So, why not just drop the Republican tripe and use persuasion?

But, you may want to babble about 'democommies,' 'supporting socialism' and 'firearms confiscation' further marginalizing yourself. Your choice, after all it is just politics.

Finally Bill posted more than just barbs. There is much to be agreed with in what he has posted if you will examine his statement. Bottom line is the representative votes according to the majority that placed him/her in office. The representative is not your problem; he is a political stooge. The voters are your problem.

Instead of continually complaining about Democrats, as Bill continually complains about Republicans:tongue:, set about to change the mind of your neighbors about the issues (gun control in this thread) and the representative will change his voting pattern.

ephv
April 18, 2007, 08:29
Bill posted--

The reason to vote Democratic is very simple. They are in charge and it would appear going to be even more in charge after 2008.

Frankly, gun control has been dead since 1999 as a political issue. Even Gore found it did not have an impact among Democrats. Now this conflicts with the NRA view that everything is in panic mode. It also means as a rule gun owners are incapable of seeing small threats as opposed to large threats. But that is no surprise.

No trick answers. No reason exists to blindly vote for Republicans thinking it will have an effect when they will be effectively on the sidelines for some years. It is going to do you little good to walk around talking about the 'Democrat' Party to your Democratic Party elected official. Get the picture?

Now the sinister trap is being laid. Watch out for this type of rational because it tells you you will have influence by voting for the guy you don't want in office. Bill is only positioning a method to allow Democrats to stay in office by trying to muze you into the belief you can have what you want by voting against yourself.

The truth is politicians only change their votes when they fear the voters may begin to vote against them. They never change their votes if you continue to vote for them while they support issues you disagree with.

redbug
April 18, 2007, 09:04
Originally posted by River Pig

So is it then reasonable to assume that you voted for republicans for congress between 1994 and 2006?
And you must have voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004 since your think the only way to get things done is to vote for the people in charge.
I never would have guessed you were a closet republican when the republicans were winning. Did you also stop chearing for the Cowboys when they started losing?


This did cross my mind as well when trying to follow his logic . :?

ravenbkp
April 18, 2007, 17:02
Just look at their party leadership and platform and what they say when they think the mike is off.

Hillary? Pelosi ? more taxes? gun confiscation? forced income redistribution? 30-40% of Americans already pay no federal taxes, so why am I supporting em? am I their slave?

Sorry kill me now I will never vote DEM I might stay home but I will never vote Democrat. Come to Kalifornia and check out how they do business here lying cheating gerrymandering NEVER gonna happen that I vote DEM.

DABTL
April 18, 2007, 18:41
Originally posted by River Pig

So is it then reasonable to assume that you voted for republicans for congress between 1994 and 2006?
And you must have voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004 since your think the only way to get things done is to vote for the people in charge.
I never would have guessed you were a closet republican when the republicans were winning. Did you also stop chearing for the Cowboys when they started losing?

I never cheered for the Cowboys. They are leaches on the body politic.

I have in fact voted for some Republicans in Congress.

I never voted for Bush because I personally dealt with him and his family. They are worthless elites.

Low Drag
April 18, 2007, 21:47
Wow, only dems think about their vote.

Republicans blindly follow their party!!!!:rofl:


Here's how the grown ups do it.

We have a 2 party system which means we get a coalition together BEFORE the election rather than after like in Europe. Bottom line I don't agree with all things that are "core" republican issues but they are more in line with my values than the dems and certainly the liberal/socialist types that are classical conservatives.

Mebsuta
April 18, 2007, 21:50
Pharoah sux. Down with Pharoah.

Dirt1042
April 19, 2007, 01:02
DABTL, you got a new avatar!:bow:

River Pig
April 19, 2007, 07:25
Originally posted by DABTL


I never cheered for the Cowboys. They are leaches on the body politic.

I have in fact voted for some Republicans in Congress.

I never voted for Bush because I personally dealt with him and his family. They are worthless elites.
So only "some" times you follow your own advice?
The reason to vote Democratic is very simple. They are in charge and it would appear going to be even more in charge after 2008.

Typical liberal. Do as I say, not as I do.

firefuzz
April 19, 2007, 08:22
Originally posted by DABTL
. Many Democrats had to vote for gun control although they did not want to do so. It was all a matter of where the voters were in their district.

I'm sorry, I find this hard to believe. In fact it appears far more likely that the actual wishes and beliefs of the voters get lost in 'party line politics' once these people are elected and get to Washington.

A very well liked and respected OK Democrat got his arse kicked in the '96 elections by an opponent that was previously unknown in political circles because he forgot where he came from and whose wishes he was supposed to be representing and voted 'party line'.

Rob

Bawana jim
April 19, 2007, 09:26
Originally posted by Dirt1042
DABTL, you got a new avatar!:bow:

Of course he did:biggrin: :biggrin:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DABTL


Almost an exact description of Cheney. Maybe he should run for President to continue the White House war against the Republican Party? Not a bad idea at all.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Well sport your avatar is really a good one as usual. Without the name of Bush on it and your name above it well... it could be you in the picture The long nose is definatly what most here see you as cause the truth has never been spoken...

Bet it makes your heart warm that your fellow democrats are showing their true colors. Mostly just a stain on American politics.

jim

william013
April 19, 2007, 21:23
DABTL,
We all know of you are a Democrat, so would you answer one question for me.
Do you support the 2nd Amendment as it is written?

WBA

DABTL
April 19, 2007, 21:45
Originally posted by william013
DABTL,
We all know of you are a Democrat, so would you answer one question for me.
Do you support the 2nd Amendment as it is written?

WBA

But of course. I also support the Constitution as written. Do you?

Bawana jim
April 19, 2007, 23:14
Originally posted by DABTL


But of course. I also support the Constitution as written. Do you?

Ya right:rolleyes: Your the kind of support a man never wants behind him. Tell us how you can support the Second Amendment yet side with the enemy of it.

jim

Rebar
April 20, 2007, 05:45
But of course. I also support the Constitution as written.

william013, please see the DABTL quote that I have in my sig line:

"I know of no infringements of the Second Amendment or plans to do so"

If you believe that our 2nd Amendment rights have not been infringed and are safe and sound, then you may believe DABTL.

If, like myself, you do think our rights have been infringed and are in danger of further infringement by the democrats, they you must believe DABTL is a lying sack of crap in addition to being a fascist moonbat.

Your choice.

DABTL
April 20, 2007, 06:59
Originally posted by Rebar


william013, please see the DABTL quote that I have in my sig line:



If you believe that our 2nd Amendment rights have not been infringed and are safe and sound, then you may believe DABTL.

If, like myself, you do think our rights have been infringed and are in danger of further infringement by the democrats, they you must believe DABTL is a lying sack of crap in addition to being a fascist moonbat.

Your choice.

If you read the Constitution, which you have not and do not, apparently, you will discover that it covers many things. Some contradictions occur. Some repetition occurs. But, unless you believe that some parts must be ignored, they must be reconciled.

Now, the last time I checked, this morning in fact, the courts of the United States were open. Any infringement on your 'Second Amendment' rights can be corrected by simple litigation.

It is much easier to sit around mouthing platitudes than to act.

It is much easier to support the war in Iraq, for instance, than it is to fight that war.

So, anyone feeling so strongly about either of those issues needs to join the fight and quit talking.

So, Rebar why don't you put yourself where your mouth is, do the world a favor and set precedent for us all to follow. We will follow your lead.

Rebar
April 20, 2007, 08:18
It is much easier to sit around mouthing platitudes than to act.
It's much easier for DABTL to lie to push his socialist agenda than to tell the truth about the democrats being the party of the gun grabbers.

Note the issue of how the 2nd Amendment has been, is being, and will be in the future infringed by the democrats and their socialist gun-grabbing ilk, is ignored in favor of... the war in Iraq? What does that have to do with the issue?

Nothing, but DABTL will not hesitate to stoop to the lowest depths to distract and muddle the discussion when he has no answers, or rather, when the truth would discredit his agenda.

Don't be fooled by this fool.

DABTL
April 20, 2007, 08:45
Originally posted by Rebar

It's much easier for DABTL to lie to push his socialist agenda than to tell the truth about the democrats being the party of the gun grabbers.

Note the issue of how the 2nd Amendment has been, is being, and will be in the future infringed by the democrats and their socialist gun-grabbing ilk, is ignored in favor of... the war in Iraq? What does that have to do with the issue?

Nothing, but DABTL will not hesitate to stoop to the lowest depths to distract and muddle the discussion when he has no answers, or rather, when the truth would discredit his agenda.

Don't be fooled by this fool.

I take it you choose the lesser road and will just continue to run your considerable mouth.

I am intrigued by what the above post has to do with the Second Amendment?

And what infringements have effected yourself? Can't buy full auto? Not enough money is the problem. Can't buy surplus ammo from the cold war any longer? It ended 17 years ago and supplies run out you know?

I rather suspect that you have all the weapons you can afford. You just like to whine.

Do something productive instead.

Rebar
April 20, 2007, 09:08
I take it you choose the lesser road and will just continue to run your considerable mouth.
Funny, coming from someone with 28177 and counting posts, 99% of which are republican/conservative/Christian-bashing drivel or moveon/DU/democrat talking points propaganda.

I am intrigued by what the above post has to do with the Second Amendment?
It seems drinking the liberal/left kool-aid drastically reduces reading comprehension. Clearly the point of my previous post is that the democrats are the party of the gun grabbers, and will desperately try to deny that fact.

And what infringements have effected yourself?
I am quite confident that you are the only member on these boards who feels that the 2nd Amendment is not being infringed. Which begs the question - why are you here?

Do something productive instead.
I am, I'm working to help the republicans defeat the gun-grabbing democrats, and countering liberal/left propaganda designed to divide and confuse the RKBA community.

william013
April 20, 2007, 20:20
DABTL,
In your opinion, would the new AWB (HR1022) to be in conflict with the 2nd Admendment?:cool:

Dirt1042
April 20, 2007, 20:33
DABTL, read this thread and tell me what you think of this guy, Plate
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/18/commentary.plate/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

There is a thread on him already

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=200510

I would bet he is voting for Hilary or Obama

warbird
April 20, 2007, 22:55
Instead of continually complaining about Democrats, as Bill continually complains about Republicans:tongue:, set about to change the mind of your neighbors about the issues (gun control in this thread) and the representative will change his voting pattern. [/B]

Hmmm, can a leopard change its spots?

Change the mind of your neighbors AND change the representative and then maybe things will change.

A couple of the Dem reps in this area were not re-elected in part due to their support for the AWB in '94. Both were proud of it, too. One is now back as a Senator, the other just moved to a new district and came back in the House. Both ready and willing to vote for more gun control. (There's that dead issue again) Don't think anyones minds were changed there.

redbug
April 22, 2007, 20:33
Originally posted by warbird


Hmmm, can a leopard change its spots?

Change the mind of your neighbors AND change the representative and then maybe things will change.

A couple of the Dem reps in this area were not re-elected in part due to their support for the AWB in '94. Both were proud of it, too. One is now back as a Senator, the other just moved to a new district and came back in the House. Both ready and willing to vote for more gun control. (There's that dead issue again) Don't think anyones minds were changed there.



Nope; it's totally dishonest and an absolute insult to anyone's intelligence to be told something so ludicrous as voting for dems is ok because, even though "gun control" (victim disarmament) is one of their most staunchly held agendas and always will be, "persuasion" will somehow make a difference. It matters not one little bit if any particular individual dem politicians may be against gun control. It is common knowledge that the "left" runs the democrat party. But, maybe I'm wrong and someone here can give an example of the persuasion fantasy at work in real life.

And, speaking of fantasy, is it just me or have we not been given any answers to any questions about just how the democratic party is going to save America from the bad old republicans? And, no explanation of why the dems legacy is so pathetic. Somehow I think it will probably take more than constant criticism of current administration and Bush bashing to amount to anything worth a damn.

warbird
April 22, 2007, 22:27
Originally posted by redbug


And, speaking of fantasy, is it just me or have we not been given any answers to any questions about just how the democratic party is going to save America from the bad old republicans?

No, it isn't just you; and No, the question hasn't been answered. Nor has the one regarding someone who owns firearms supporting the dems been aswered. Just got a bunch of SA comments and some BS about persuasion.

I think the idea someone espoused is that we should become good little socialists in hopes that the party in power will leave us alone, or only slightly molest us.

redbug
April 23, 2007, 09:25
Originally posted by warbird


No, it isn't just you; and No, the question hasn't been answered. Nor has the one regarding someone who owns firearms supporting the dems been aswered. Just got a bunch of SA comments and some BS about persuasion.

I think the idea someone espoused is that we should become good little socialists in hopes that the party in power will leave us alone, or only slightly molest us.




I'm real sure you hit the nail right on the head. :wink:

StarPD
April 23, 2007, 11:48
Well, you didn't think the democommies were going to come right out and tell you they are going to screw you blind, did you?
Oh, wait. That's right. They already did.

Now they're just trying to tell us that's not what they meant.

They remind me of that old antacid commercial on TV: "Try it, you'll like it. I tried it and almost died!".

Over 100 MILLION innocent people were slaughtered in cold blood by their own governments in the past century alone, AFTER THEY WERE DISARMED.
The democommies want to disarm us.
Any questions?

william013
April 23, 2007, 21:56
DABTL.

You must have missed the post #134. In your opinion, do you think that the new AWB (HR 1022) will conflict with the 2nd Admendment?:cool:

redbug
April 24, 2007, 12:36
Originally posted by StarPD
Well, you didn't think the democommies were going to come right out and tell you they are going to screw you blind, did you?
Oh, wait. That's right. They already did.

Now they're just trying to tell us that's not what they meant.

They remind me of that old antacid commercial on TV: "Try it, you'll like it. I tried it and almost died!".

Over 100 MILLION innocent people were slaughtered in cold blood by their own governments in the past century alone, AFTER THEY WERE DISARMED.
The democommies want to disarm us.
Any questions?



Oh, but don't you remember? They obviously were not smart enough to have used "pursuasion" and "working to find common ground", don't you know. If only they had been fortunate enough to be enlightened they way some voters of democrats are in this country.
:rolleyes:

co.500sw
May 18, 2007, 00:47
Originally posted by redbug
Can someone explain to me the rationale of why on earth a firearms enthusiast / gunowner would choose to be supportive of the democratic party in any way? It is common knowledge they are pushing for socialism but, as a whole, they also favor extreme gun control and probably even total confiscation. How could one be ok with having the likes of Ted Kennedy, Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Palosi, Harry Reid, Chuck Schummer, Joe Biden, Charles Rangle, and all their other fellow low lifes as the main leaders?

I am not sticking up for 'publicans. It just comes down to the lesser of two evils.

WTF? Quit pretending it's a partisan issue!!!! Gun control proponents come from both sides of the fence, and until you can "convince" people that gun control laws don't make sense, instead of ALIENATING people, you'll come across as a closed minded dumbass and be left scratching your head about why anyone could be so unpatriotic as to have a differing view of politics than you.

The only thing I do agree with is: "It just comes down to the lesser of two evils" and in my perception, that just happens to be: anyone but bush.

william013
May 18, 2007, 21:33
I was hoping to get some kind of reaction from DABTL. To get nothing is kind of strange. You know how lawyers like to talk!:biggrin: Perhaps the DNC has told everyone to keep quiet on gun control until the democraps take control of D.C..
Besides, maybe DABTL will run for office someday. He would not want his position on gun control known. If you want to know what happens to anti-gun politicians, see what happened to Gov. Ann Richards after she vetoed the bill that would have allowed concealed carry in Texas. :wink: :cool: