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K43guy
October 31, 2005, 23:46
When did the NCO ranking on the sleeve of the uniform go from large (circa civil war) to the current size that it stands at today? It there a partictular reason for the reduction in size? I was watching some old Civil war flicks and I got to noticing how large the Sargent's stripes were.

16R40
November 01, 2005, 00:40
In 1902 the chevron was turned to what we would today call point up. It was also greatly reduced in size. Though many stories exist as to why the chevron's direction was changed, the most realistic is that it looked better. Clothing had become more form-fitting; indeed, the 10-inch chevron of the 1880's would have wrapped completely around the sleeve of a 1902 uniform.


http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/arms/arms.asp

Bruce J
November 01, 2005, 00:48
Originally posted by 16R40
In 1902 the chevron was turned to what we would today call point up.

Ah, yet one service still has it right after all these years. Go Navy!

http://www.1800nametape.com/bj-crow.gif

Hebrew Battle Rifle
November 01, 2005, 00:53
Bruce J:

Did you forget about the zoomies?

Bruce J
November 01, 2005, 01:11
Originally posted by Hebrew Battle Rifle
Did you forget about the zoomies?

I guess I did. But that happens a lot. I guess I never really considered them a "real" branch of service. :)

Here's the fly-boys in their blue business suite
(looks a lot like a door to door Kirby Vacuum salesman huh?)
http://library.thinkquest.org/27225/JPG/Uniform-USAF.jpg

Here ya go...
http://www.dodfire.com/graphics/Insignia/AF-ENL/E5-Staff_Sergeant.gif

...Go Navy...

CW TUCKER
November 01, 2005, 07:34
Be Gentle, there are lots of Us out there. I never liked the Blue Bus drivers Uniform either as we called it in the Viet-Nam period. CW

FN74
November 01, 2005, 11:02
Coasties have it right as well.

DJ
November 01, 2005, 14:40
My son is an Air Force two striper. He ain't no zoomie, he works for a living.

gunplumber
November 01, 2005, 17:51
On a related topic -

The rank for asecond leutennant is a gold bar (army, Marines). The rank for a 1st LT is a silver one.

The one for a major is a gold oakleaf while a LTC is a silver one (brown and black respectively when subdued.

The reason for that, and why we don't follow much of the rest of the world that use one two or three emblems (oak leaves, pips, etc) is because during the civil war the ranks could be distinquished by completely differnt uniforms.

When we went to a single uniform style, we needed to have a way of differentiating.

At least - thats how I learned it.

Bruce J
November 01, 2005, 19:05
Originally posted by DJ
My son is an Air Force two striper. He ain't no zoomie, he works for a living.

Be proud, very proud!

It's my sworn duty to give some of the other branches as mush hassel as possible.

That said, I've got several buddies that went airforce and they actually work pretty hard!

Of couse I tease them that they never get to spend 6 months at time inside of a grey nasty metal house on tiny bunks with no privacy and showers that range from 32degrees F to 180 degrees F with no warning. Nor do they get to dress up like a Good Humor Man, go to the scummiest places in town, get drunk and claim that you're traveling the world. Now taht I think about it, perhaps I made the wrong choice..?

firefuzz
November 01, 2005, 20:13
In the Army myself, but I always liked the idea of having the CAS 'zoomies' around. Especially the A10 drivers. Tanks suck if you're on the ground.

Rob

martin35
November 01, 2005, 20:34
Until WWII Marines wore chevrons on one sleeve a'la Navy regulations, as they were a subservient branch of the Navy, no longer they are finaly detached like the USAF.
O'yeah rockers for staff NCO''s went from flat to curved just like the Army.

olsarg
November 02, 2005, 01:40
Believe the pin on insignia came out in the70s. Big insignia on duty uniforms were attension getters so the switch to small on collar came around. also made it harder for opforces to spot the officers cause everyone had collar insignia or so I'm told.

GOVT1911
November 02, 2005, 02:14
Originally posted by rob branson
In the Army myself, but I always liked the idea of having the CAS 'zoomies' around. Especially the A10 drivers. Tanks suck if you're on the ground.

Rob

ROGER THAT! But my favorite guys in the air are the Apache and Medevac pilots. I owe a couple of those guys a beer..... or TEN!

Mad Dog 7.62
November 02, 2005, 04:00
I've never been able to figure out why a Major outtanks a Lt., but a Lt. General outranks a Maj. General. Seems kinda odd.
MD

FN74
November 02, 2005, 09:38
For the marines, the pin on insignia was around since korea. They were wider though than the modern equivilant.

martin35
November 02, 2005, 11:25
....many uniform changes were terrible, I prefered the battle jacket to the longer Blouse, short or fat guys appeared to wattle in the blouse. I am convinced that the Generals school must have a Ken & Barbie class because they come up with so many arbitrary uniform changes,,,,, they can look back and say "I did that".

DJ
November 02, 2005, 15:07
Originally posted by Bruce J


Be proud, very proud!

It's my sworn duty to give some of the other branches as mush hassel as possible.

That said, I've got several buddies that went airforce and they actually work pretty hard!

Of couse I tease them that they never get to spend 6 months at time inside of a grey nasty metal house on tiny bunks with no privacy and showers that range from 32degrees F to 180 degrees F with no warning. Nor do they get to dress up like a Good Humor Man, go to the scummiest places in town, get drunk and claim that you're traveling the world. Now taht I think about it, perhaps I made the wrong choice..?


My wife and I are very proud of him. LOL I think its a sworn duty of the AF guys to hastle and harrass the other services too. He's currently at Shepard AFB in Texas and he says there are guys from all the other services at Shepard. I guess they harrass the Navy guys mercilessly. I can't recall what he said they call the Navy enlisted....I know its not "squids." LOL They seem to know enough to leave the Marines alone. Not sure about the Army......
From what he says the barracks are pretty nice.....well as nice as a military barracks can be. Two guys to a room instead of 30 guys in a squad bay. Beds instead of bunks. Air conditioned. Carpet on the floor. He graduates from his tech school in December then he's off to Nellis AFB in Nevada. He asked if it's hot in Nevada. I said yeah I think so, pretty much all year around. He said oh great stuck in another damn oven.

16R40
November 02, 2005, 17:41
Originally posted by Mad Dog 7.62
I've never been able to figure out why a Major outtanks a Lt., but a Lt. General outranks a Maj. General. Seems kinda odd.
MD

Lieutenant General is a military rank used in almost every country in the world. The rank traces its origins to the Middle Ages where the title of Lieutenant General was held by the second in command on the battlefield, normally subordinate to a Captain General.

In most nations, a Lieutenant General ranks immediately below a General and above a Major General. The oddity in precedence, where a Lieutenant General outranks a Major General whereas a Major would normally outrank a Lieutenant, is caused by the rank of Major General previously having been known as Sergeant Major General, which was in turn was subordinate to Lieutenant General.


now you know

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieutenant_General

GOVT1911
November 02, 2005, 18:37
Originally posted by martin35
.. I am convinced that the Generals school must have a Ken & Barbie class because they come up with so many arbitrary uniform changes,,,,, they can look back and say "I did that".

that's the ONLY reason any of my buddies can come up with that clown Shinseki stuck us with the damn black berets. :mad:

twodog
November 02, 2005, 21:34
DJ said: He graduates from his tech school in December then he's off to Nellis AFB in Nevada. He asked if it's hot in Nevada. I said yeah I think so, pretty much all year around. He said oh great stuck in another damn oven.

Yes, but remember it's a dry heat. Best part is Nellis is in Las Vegas, or maybe that's bad, depends on your point of view. KMart had the best slot machines. Fall, Winter, and Spring are nice but summer can be hell. Red Flag is interesting.

US Marine1833
November 02, 2005, 23:50
Don't forget that when the chevrons are down this means they have never been defeated in battle! After WW2, I think there arent many that did not some where or some time face defeat especially the ground forces such as the Marines and Army. This is what I was told as a Marine anyways.

Hebrew Battle Rifle
November 03, 2005, 01:51
Originally posted by hawkman




Also Martin, the Marine Corps has not been split off as a seperate service. It still comes under the Navy.

Xin Loi G.I.


This is incorrect. The National Security Act of 1947 established the Joint Chiefs of Staff, The Uniform Code of Military Justice, and the USAF and USMC as independent branches of the US Armed Forces.

Steelcore_7.62
November 24, 2005, 00:43
Bruce,
you may not know this, but our E-7 and above stripes have downward facing stripes that go up on top. So you "Swabbies" are truly the exception- with stripes anyway. At least we don't wear our name on the seat of our pants!:devil:

Cheers,
Darrell

gunseller
November 24, 2005, 11:09
Not to rub saltwater in anything but I think that payroll checks for Marines still say Dept of the Navy on the top of the check. My Farther started out in the Army in 1941 then he went to the Army Air Corps. From old pictures I think the Air Corps strips looked like the Army's of that time. There may have been a star added in at the point of the strip. I got to wear wings also while I was in the Army. Mine are better than Air Force wings, mine have a parachute on them.
Gunseller

EOD
November 25, 2005, 15:35
It can get fairly cold out at Nellis during the night and early morning, warmed up during the day as I recall.

They used to have a great EOD shop with a nice bar. While TDY on a range clearing I remember another EOD guy getting drunk...and married his first night in town.

"Here's the fly-boys in their blue business suite "

When I first went in we were still issued the Khaki's. They looked much better than the blues IMO.

DreadNaught
November 25, 2005, 17:58
Coasties have it right as well.

Amen to that. Coasties always have it right. Semper Paratus......

Dread

TFA303
November 26, 2005, 07:02
Apropos of rank insignia, I recently learned why sleeve stripes are called "hash marks".



It's a relic of the British colonial days that we somehow borrowed from them. In Persian, the number 8 is pronounced "hasht", and looks like an upside-down "V".


Now ya know.


Tom