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View Full Version : Which is better outfit, Red Cross or Salvation Army?


Mebsuta
September 04, 2005, 21:28
Between RC and SA, which is the better outfit and least likely to use donations for anything other than intended purpose? Thanks.

Powderfinger
September 04, 2005, 21:34
You could google their annual reports and see what % hits the ground as aid vs. "administrative costs".

MTS
September 04, 2005, 21:39
Salvation Army, in my opinion. It's a (Christian) church.

In my community they provide shelter and feeding every day, not just in disasters.

Treborer
September 04, 2005, 21:46
The Red Cross has a Lot of wieght internationally-(Fat Guys drawing checks), no just kidding. the Red Cross overhead costs would shame a Texas Lawyer.

TheSalvation Army, you can trust with a buck, and if your down to 1 sheet of asswipe, and one swaller of water, they'll give to you and use a leaf, and suck on a stone.

God Bless Em.

:bigangel:

Cava3r4
September 04, 2005, 22:21
Salvation Army...
O'Reilly had to rag on the Red Cross during 9/11 to get them to disburse funds....remember?
Salvation Army doesnt have some fat ass CEO that gets 7 digits a year salary.
Bob

martin35
September 04, 2005, 22:28
The SA does not loan money to disaster victims the RC does.
And the SA gave my dad a coat the winter of 1931. My brothers and sister have gladly been repaying that generosity for many years.

xcpd69
September 04, 2005, 22:41
Father of a kid I grew up with was a WWII European Theater Veteran. Fought all across Europe. Any time the Red Cross was brought up, he would tell anyone who asked about the Red Cross charging GIs in the field for donuts bought with funds donated by Americans.

Needless to say, he wasn't a fan.

Gremper
September 04, 2005, 22:46
I had several problems with the Red Gross while on active duty including their forwarding false information from my ex to my chain of command, refusing to verify correct information and trying to prevent an emergency leave that my Commander had approved. I have never had a problem in my dealings with the Salvation Army.

gman552
September 04, 2005, 22:49
Actually, the American Red Cross is rated fairly well by an independent rating service:

Charity Navigator.com - American Red Cross (http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm/bay/search.summary/orgid/3277.htm)

The Salvation Army is a religious group and is exempt from public filing requirements. A different rating organization has given them a good rating for finances, but low on governance (there is no independent board of directors):

American Institute of Philanthropy - Salvation Army (http://www.charitywatch.org/articles/salvarmy.html)

However, there are many checks and balances, and demonstrated personal integrity is necessary to progress in the organization (see the last paragraph of the article.)

My personal preference is the Salvation Army.

yovinny
September 04, 2005, 23:03
Originally posted by xcpd69
Father of a kid I grew up with was a WWII European Theater Veteran. Fought all across Europe. Any time the Red Cross was brought up, he would tell anyone who asked about the Red Cross charging GIs in the field for donuts bought with funds donated by Americans.

Needless to say, he wasn't a fan.


Dito on that. I've heard that same thing from more than a few WWII vet's, including my Dad.
Havent met one yet that would give air to the RC, but always have a few $$ for the Salvation Army.
I continue the tradition :wink:

Falfegnügen
September 04, 2005, 23:38
After my experience the past week with the Red Cross and Katrina, Salvation Army gets my vote, no question about it.

The Red Cross should be flat-out ashamed of themselves.

FALic
September 04, 2005, 23:47
A friend's father was WWII Merchant Marine, he was the first officer on a Liberty ship that was delivering artillery shells to Normandy on day 2. While the ship was unloading he took a stroll down the beach.

He said there as a red cross aid station selling donuts and coffee to the troops coming off the ships. In clear view of the aid station was a mound of dead soldiers under a tarp.

To this day, he's quite angry with the Red Cross. Won't give them a penny.

Snakeshot
September 04, 2005, 23:55
American Red Cross= Good.

International Red Cross= Bad.

Powderfinger
September 05, 2005, 00:03
I prefer the largest private charity in the country. Catholic Charities. They are on the scene not only for immediate emergency care, but also for months and years after a natural disaster providing temporary and permanent housing, mental health counseling, direct assistance beyond food and water to get people back into their homes, job placement counseling, and medical and prescription drug assistance.
We give to Feed the Children also. That man knows how to haul some grub with low overhead.

Trixie
September 05, 2005, 00:06
I sent money to both the Salvation Army and the Red Cross last week, and to the US Humane Society today. I sent FN74 money too.

Edit added FN74

Hebrew Battle Rifle
September 05, 2005, 01:15
The Salvation Army is a life and soul saving organization.

John Culver
September 05, 2005, 02:23
Salvation Army.

I sent my $$ directly to FN74 lol, figured he wouldnt have admin costs lol :)

Rabbi
September 05, 2005, 03:39
I, like a lot of vets in my class (1968) have reason to loathe the Red Cross. I would never give them a DIME.

Sally's Army, on the other hand, as a wonderful Christian based and motivated charity put almost everything into the charity/help chain and I support them with vigor.

Any contribution to Salvation Army might be rescuing your next door neighbor or a guy in Bangla Desh whose daughter needs eye surgery. They are among the cleanest charities on the planet.

Red Cross can KMA.

McUZI
September 05, 2005, 04:11
When I was in Americorps NCCC, I worked with Red Cross for three disasters. Before, I didn't have an opinion either way.

The waste is staggering.

Here is a slight breakdown of how an ordinary disaster will go.
Big Bad (Insert Disaster Here) Hits (Area Here).
Red Cross deploys.

Senior Citizens from across the country (who do this disaster relief as a retirement hobby) converge on the affected area to which they are promptly put up in a hotel (which can range from a Days Inn up to the finest hotel in town) and given a daily 'living allowance' stipend which amounts to $500 worth of AmEx travelers Checks up front, to be freshly renewed every 1 1/2 - 2 Weeks depending on what the per deim is set at for that particular disaster.
They are also given rental cars.

All said and done, between the 'living allowance', the rental cars and the hotels, it costs AT A MINIMUM $100 a day to house every ARC 'volunteer', usually more like $150-$250 PER DAY.

These Senior Citizens (who make up better than 85% of the ARC's Disaster Volunteer Base) are charged custody with YOUR donation dollars to which they proceed to spray said money about the affected areas with about as much discretion as if they were tossing beads from a float at Mardi Gras.
From what I saw (On three disasters in three different states), 50% of this money is spent more as 'poverty relief' than actual disaster relief.

A disaster is like Negro Christmas.
Every ghetto household calls to report the complete loss of their household contents. Since they don't know the actual ARC function, they start in by reporting their 50" Plasma Screen TV, six original Picassos and extensive collection of six carat diamonds as being 'lawst in da flood watah'... Once you inform them that ARC can only give money for immediate essentials, they proceed to give you a list of designer clothing and other 'borderline' items that they demand payment for.

Anyway, I won't carry on any further. After seeing the ARC in action as an actual 'disaster relief worker', I was so disgusted with the operation that I take every opportunity to spread the word about how shamefully wasteful those assholes are.

DABTL
September 05, 2005, 08:03
Both the Salvation Army and the Red Cross performed miracles in Dallas this week.

The Mayor of Dallas thought the city could not take in more people because of the limited resources. Everyone was stunned by the number of volunteers who just 'walked on' to the situation. Some brought supplies, others brought money and still others worked in the heat to ease the suffering.

It does not matter which has the higher overhead today, it beats the complete lack of Federal assistance here so far.

georgestrings
September 05, 2005, 08:13
Originally posted by Trixie
I sent money to both the Salvation Army and the Red Cross last week, and to the US Humane Society today. I sent FN74 money too.

Edit added FN74


The USHS is extremely anti-gun and anti-hunting - they'll NEVER see a penny from me...



- georgestrings

Trixie
September 05, 2005, 09:13
Originally posted by georgestrings
The USHS is extremely anti-gun and anti-hunting - they'll NEVER see a penny from me...The $$ were specifically for rescuing pets in the wake of Katrina. People have been forced to leave them behind -- apparently they aren't being allowed on evacuation buses and such.

Mebsuta
September 05, 2005, 10:14
OK, I used SA. Might use RC later if I hear good about them. Thank you all for your responses.

ANON
September 05, 2005, 12:01
After the politically biased red cross benefit concert, I think support should go to the SA.

hickman
September 05, 2005, 12:04
Trixie, you are correct in most cases that pets are not being allowed on busses. That seems to be at the drivers discretion though as my mother, along with many other school bus drivers went down there, saw people being refused rides after refusing to abandon their pets. She took a stand and allowed not only people, but pets as well on her bus. One man from Chalmette lost everything but hs 3 Great Danes, she gave the man and his dogs, as well as anyone else who would board the bus, a ride from N.O. One man had to let his parrot loose, he had had him for several years, he put all the food he had for the bird in a pan, opened the doors and windows of his house, opened the cage and walked out. As he left the parrot called after him, "Bye-bye"...

idsubgun
September 05, 2005, 12:45
Just remember, if you have a beef with the Red Cross, take it up with their admin, not the people in the field. Those people are mainly volunteers with hearts of gold.

:bow: :bigangel: :bow:

Falfegnügen
September 05, 2005, 14:29
Let me put it this way:

On Tuesday morning 2 deployable communications stations, with Satellite telephone, long range HF, all band VHF and UHF, Towers, generators, lights, all fuel and everything necessary to sustain them for a couple weeks, including tramportation via Unimog High-Mobility diesel truck, with purpose-built 1.25m fording capability, were offered to immediately support the Red Cross in relief efforts.


THE RED CROSS SAID NO, THEY DIDN'T NEED THIS! MAYBE LATER IF THINGS GET BAD

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

FP1201
September 05, 2005, 14:56
Originally posted by Falfegnügen
Let me put it this way:

On Tuesday morning 2 deployable communications stations, with Satellite telephone, long range HF, all band VHF and UHF, Towers, generators, lights, all fuel and everything necessary to sustain them for a couple weeks, including tramportation via Unimog High-Mobility diesel truck, with purpose-built 1.25m fording capability, were offered to immediately support the Red Cross in relief efforts.


THE RED CROSS SAID NO, THEY DIDN'T NEED THIS! MAYBE LATER IF THINGS GET BAD

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Screw 'em, they're not the only game in town and they don't run the show either. Anyone willing to help (especially with a communications system) should be allowed to do their part. The RC represenatative may not have had a clue as to what they were being offered or what they'd be turning down.
I'll bet there are hundreds of people who would be grateful for just the chance.

We support the Salvation Army. The ARC has its place and does a fine job in some aspects, but is wayyy off base in others.

ftierson
September 05, 2005, 15:33
Personal experience is always better than hearsay...

If you saw how the Salvation Army supported the rescue workers and the rescue/cleanup effort at the WTC after 9/11, you'd know the answer to this question.

The Salvation Army gets my salute...

Forrest

Frontman
September 05, 2005, 16:58
My Grandfather hated the Red Cross, he said they used to charge soldiers a nickel a cup for coffee, and gave it to the German POWs for free.

I had personal experience with the Red Cross as a child. Our apartment building had been damaged in a fire, and the Red Cross gave us money for food and clothing. They also supplied us with a hotel room for a few days until we could either find a new apartment.

IMO, religious orginizations are less likely to waste any money donated to them. The Red Cross, for all the good work it does, is run too much like a government program, and is subject to the bureaucratic waste, corruption, and inefficiency that you find in government programs.

Ian Sean
September 05, 2005, 17:46
OMG, after reading this I guess my dad was right. He DESPISES the red cross!

I always took it with a grain of salt the red cross storyhe told from Korea. Maybe I didnt want to believe something that shatters the myth of there being a better time in our history.

Seems my dad and his unit were on the front lines in a more secure rear area when the RC shows up. Initially the GI's were grateful, buying cigarettes, and toiletries and stuff.

Turns out inside each carton of cigarettes was a postcard from a VFW post somewhere in Pennsylvania. Said "donated by xxx vfw post, yadayada"

So RC muckity mucks "selling" donated goods to front line combat troops...when the word got out they returned attempting to buy items back.

The old man says they literally threatened to kill the RC guys, and they left. Many letters were written, hell was raised and as you can see it is a wonderful organisation today:rolleyes:

The old man to this day despises the Red Cross, and the other stories here affirm this for me.

DABTL
September 05, 2005, 17:52
Originally posted by Ian Sean
OMG, after reading this I guess my dad was right. He DESPISES the red cross!

I always took it with a grain of salt the red cross storyhe told from Korea. Maybe I didnt want to believe something that shatters the myth of there being a better time in our history.

Seems my dad and his unit were on the front lines in a more secure rear area when the RC shows up. Initially the GI's were grateful, buying cigarettes, and toiletries and stuff.

Turns out inside each carton of cigarettes was a postcard from a VFW post somewhere in Pennsylvania. Said "donated by xxx vfw post, yadayada"

So RC muckity mucks "selling" donated goods to front line combat troops...when the word got out they returned attempting to buy items back.

The old man says they literally threatened to kill the RC guys, and they left. Many letters were written, hell was raised and as you can see it is a wonderful organisation today:rolleyes:

The old man to this day despises the Red Cross, and the other stories here affirm this for me.

I have heard that tale so much that I think it an urban legend. I first heard it 50 years ago. Not first hand experience just someone told them it happened.

I do not believe it from what I have observed this past week.

Ian Sean
September 05, 2005, 17:57
Tell it to my dad asshole......Retired Army...PM me for his phone number.

Hes 80 years old and still fiesty as hell, he doesnt put up with my shit, he sure as hell wont put up with yours.

I have no reason to doubt the old man.

DABTL
September 05, 2005, 17:58
Originally posted by Ian Sean
Tell it to my dad asshole......Retired Army...PM me for his phone number.

Hes 80 years old and still fiesty as hell, he doesnt put up with my shit, he sure as hell wont put up with yours.

I have no reason to doubt the old man.

Be glad to do so. PM me the number.

paintballmagnet
September 05, 2005, 18:27
In '91 we had a bad flood. The Red Cross showed up three times each day with a sandwich and a glass of lemonade. The Salvation Army provided lodging, baby sitters, cook meals, money when needed. My uncle, WW2 vet, now dead bless his soul was taken as a prisoner of war soon after D-DAY. Upon release he spent several months in a French hospital being treated for wounds and malnourishment. Upon his arrival in England, still sick and weighing 100 pounds, the first thing he remembered was the Red Cross trying to sell the guys donuts as they we unloadeed off the ship. He always said he wouldn't donate a cup of piss to the Red Cross. I realize the street workers are trying to do good, its the people that make mega bucks off donations that get me PO'd! The donut tale was NO urban legend to him.

MasterGunner
September 05, 2005, 18:41
As to which agency, the American Red Cross or Salvation Army, gets the most for your dollars, the hand's down winner is the Salvation Army. It goes something like this:

"Identified by author and management expert Dr. Peter Drucker as 'by far the most effective organization in the United States.' The Salvation Army invests the charitable gifts it receives in the lives of men and women and boys and girls. 'No one even comes close to it in respect to clarity of mission, ability to innovate, measurable results, dedication and putting money to maximum use,' Drucker said. (Forbes, August 11, 1997)."

In stark contrast to the scandals generated by other charities in the aftermath of 9/11, the Salvation Army went about quietly ministering to the victims of the terrorist attacks, as well as the rescuers and other volunteers. According to an article about the Salvation Army in the December issue of Reader's Digest, "Within a half hour of the terrorist attacks, 200 officers in their epaulet jackets and blue caps started scrambling to Ground Zero, soon assisted by 5,000 more volunteers." The Army comandeered 24 buildings from which to receive and distribute tons of relief supplies. Disaster experts consider the Salvation Army's work in Manhattan and Washington, DC, to be the most effective of any of the relief organizations involved.

One charity has stayed above all reproach for 137 years. The Salvation Army is unique among all U.S. charities for many reasons. Let's start at the top. Commissioner Todd Bassett receives a salary of $13,000 per year (plus housing) for managing this $2 billion dollar organization. By comparison, Brian Gallagher, President of the United Way receives a $375,000 base salary (plus numerous expensive benefits) and Red Cross President Marsha Evans receives $450,000 (plus benefits).

No contest in my book (and by personal experience).

:fal:

broncobisley1
September 05, 2005, 19:36
DABTL, sorry to say that the Red Cross stories coming from veterans are true. I've heard the same thing first hand from my great-uncle who was there. He was in the 101st, fought in the Normandy invasion, and the Holland invasion that I know of for sure. He also can't stand the Red Cross and has basically told the same story. He lived his whole life without saying one word about his experiences during the war until the past four-five years. He was very lucky as only a few out of his fellow soldiers made it back home.

Sgt_Gold
September 05, 2005, 20:55
I lost it on the Red Cross right after 9-11. They have the arrogance to tell you, (their sourse of funding), that they will decide where the money goes, even after appealing directly to Americans to help the victims of 9-11. Couple that with the information I got from three Red Cross employees that used to work for them full time. The bottom line is the Red Cross is a business that charges for disaster relief. The SA was down at ground zero along with McDonalds and Campbells Soup, providing free food and stuff for anyone. The Red Cross was hording supplies and acting like they were in charge.

TLynn
September 05, 2005, 20:58
It's a toss up, back during WWII the Red Cross was the bad guys for sure. I say this because I still hear the stories from the veterans at work anytime I want to ask them (I work at the VA).

On the other hand I have no love for the Salvation Army here in town...they will do anything for a buck and then sell your soul. They treat people like they are lower than low and that's been my personal experience.

I will never have anything good to say about them - maybe others have had good dealings with them and I hope for their sake yes. BUt not just myself have seen them steal from the poor here in town on more than one occasion.

I'll find another way to give...or I'll give through the Red Cross as they are a lot different than they were back in the 40's-60's.

Hot Diggity
September 05, 2005, 21:40
I can track the Red Cross "selling" things to wounded GI's back to November 7, 1918. In his book "Goodbye Darkness" William Manchester details the story told by his father, left to die in a casualty clearing station near Soissons. Chapter Able, Page 18, paragraph 2.

How I managed to find this tidbit of information in my library so quickly amazes me...a guy who can misplace his own car keys, and spend minutes hunting all over for them, only to find them dangling quietly from the fingers of my left hand.

HD

BUFF
September 06, 2005, 04:30
Here in Salt Lake, the SA runs the main homeless shelter, assisted in financing and specialty areas by others. They do a great job.

When we have a house or apartment fire, one of our first calls (Sheriff's Office) after the fire is about out, is to the Red Cross. They show up quickly, access the victims' needs and put them up as needed.

My dad remembers the Red Cross setting up at Pearl Harbor while he was there (1943-44) to SELL coffee and donuts to the sailors and Marines.

Catholic Charities is also very effective with your donations.

We have set up a refugee camp at a Nat' Guard base here in Salt Lake (Camp Williams). My department and the Highway Patrol is providing security (which is needed, as 70% of the adults who have arrived have felony arrest records, but that's another story). The Red Cross provided a core of trained workers who have experience in receiving, processing, evaluating and then getting the refugees settled in the provided housing, in this case barracks.

They have come from all over and are good, hard, effective workers. However, they are all being put up in the better hotels uptown and driving nice rental cars. I haven't had the time to ask who is paying for it, but will.

My "who do I give to" questions are solved in this circumstance. Between FN74 and the refugees I am meeting nightly, there are plenty of opportunities to give.

The people we are receiving have arrived here with truly nothing, mostly. Except for the 18-35 year old single men, who are carrying 3-6 big, triple-baged trash bags full of loot they brought with them, that includes CD's and DVD's by the hundreds, jewelry and lots of high-buck shoes not their own sizes that they are bartering to others.

DABTL
September 06, 2005, 06:27
Originally posted by broncobisley1
DABTL, sorry to say that the Red Cross stories coming from veterans are true. I've heard the same thing first hand from my great-uncle who was there. He was in the 101st, fought in the Normandy invasion, and the Holland invasion that I know of for sure. He also can't stand the Red Cross and has basically told the same story. He lived his whole life without saying one word about his experiences during the war until the past four-five years. He was very lucky as only a few out of his fellow soldiers made it back home.

My father and his vet buddies told the same tale. All the details match about selling donuts and cigarettes to the GIs. Later they find out the items were donated and all the rest.

I have looked at many contemporary news stories and such from those years. I got curious in college and tried to find some story in LIFE, TIME or papers telling the story. I found none.

I think the vets believed the story. I just think the story is untrue.

I just googled the query and find many stories about Red Cross packages containing cigarettes, GIs trading cigarettes and oral histories from WW2 concerning the Red Cross and cigarettes. I have been unable, other than in odd posts on websites by people reciting the above story, to find any contemporary account or complaint by GIs about the Red Cross.

DABTL
September 06, 2005, 06:51
Originally posted by BUFF


We have set up a refugee camp at a Nat' Guard base here in Salt Lake (Camp Williams). My department and the Highway Patrol is providing security (which is needed, as 70% of the adults who have arrived have felony arrest records, but that's another story). The Red Cross provided a core of trained workers who have experience in receiving, processing, evaluating and then getting the refugees settled in the provided housing, in this case barracks.

They have come from all over and are good, hard, effective workers. However, they are all being put up in the better hotels uptown and driving nice rental cars. I haven't had the time to ask who is paying for it, but will.

My "who do I give to" questions are solved in this circumstance. Between FN74 and the refugees I am meeting nightly, there are plenty of opportunities to give.

The people we are receiving have arrived here with truly nothing, mostly. Except for the 18-35 year old single men, who are carrying 3-6 big, triple-baged trash bags full of loot they brought with them, that includes CD's and DVD's by the hundreds, jewelry and lots of high-buck shoes not their own sizes that they are bartering to others.

Ah, nothing like rumours around the cop shop. :rofl:

Got to tell you the truth. You are seeing displaced Americans who have been processed in Texas.

The black trash bags were handed to them at the receiving areas in Texas. They are filled with all kinds of treasure, like socks and underwear given to them by the people of Texas.

Those who have money have bought additional items, although CDs and DVDs were on hand for those who wanted some. In some places there were shoes that did not fit but were taken for barter for some that did. Everyone was encouraged to do that kind of distribution.

About 1/3 are children and could have no criminal record. The rest may have some people with felony convictions, but not every black person is a criminal.

Just go ahead and tell these good folks that they are scary black people. And you wonder why black people here do not want to go to Utah? :rofl:

McUZI
September 06, 2005, 11:01
Originally posted by DABTL

And you wonder why black people here do not want to go to Utah? :rofl:


Awwww shucks :(
Black people do not want to go to Utah.
Poor Utah.
Whatever will they do without black people???? :confused:
I just don't understand!?!?

If there is ONE thing every state wants, it's a horde of homeless negroes from the Big Sleazy.

Utah must feel just terrible that the New Orleans Voo-Doo Zombie welfare negroes don't want to go there.

Plain George
September 06, 2005, 12:27
Red Cross...........saves lives
Salvation Army....saves lives + souls

DABTL
September 06, 2005, 13:38
Originally posted by McUZI



Awwww shucks :(
Black people do not want to go to Utah.
Poor Utah.
Whatever will they do without black people???? :confused:
I just don't understand!?!?

If there is ONE thing every state wants, it's a horde of homeless negroes from the Big Sleazy.

Utah must feel just terrible that the New Orleans Voo-Doo Zombie welfare negroes don't want to go there.

Another cracker surfaces to show his hate.

martin35
September 06, 2005, 13:58
In recent times the Red Cross has had to deal with malfeasence and corruption of its high placed leadership, thier method of compensation for thier exectives is over the top in some regions, and thier autonomy for spending is unlimited to the extent of thier resources. Not all is spent on helping the needy.

DABTL
September 06, 2005, 14:03
Originally posted by martin35
In recent times the Red Cross has had to deal with malfeasence and corruption of its high placed leadership, thier method of compensation for thier exectives is over the top in some regions, and thier autonomy for spending is unlimited to the extent of thier resources. Not all is spent on helping the needy.

One of the problems with any large charity is it does not produce income. It only produces donations.

If you can attract donations the pay is vast. No one cares until the donations drop off.

Most charities have professional managers who could go into other fields, it appears. So, to meet the competition the salaries are boosted.

This is an advantage of the Salvation Army over the Red Cross, but that organization has it limitations also.

McUZI
September 06, 2005, 14:09
Originally posted by DABTL


Another cracker surfaces to show his hate.

Another pathetic liberal surfaces to show how hollow his own life would be without dedicating a part of it towards the betterment of the Negro race.

Negroes elicit the same reaction out of a liberal as catnip does to a tabby.

History Nut
September 06, 2005, 14:41
OK, I will put in my 2 cents worth on this subject. For over 10 years I was a volunteer instructor in First Aid and CPR for a Red Cross chapter. During that time I did take one course in 'Shelter Management' but never had occasion to use it. I also had an indirect experience regarding 'aid to military families' when my Father died. My Mom called the Red Cross to arrange 'emergency leave' for my Brother. When he got home, he told us he had just gone to his commander and told him about his father's death and took the leave. When he got back to his base, he never saw anything that indicated the Red Cross had made contact to help with the leave.

When I got my volunteer training, the subject of 'selling coffee and doughnuts' came up. The only answer was 'that was then, this is now'. I am proud of my time as a volunteer. I have a good friend that regularly worked disasters small and medium for the RC.

The American National Red Cross is a large organization and consequently a large bureaucracy. It has all the vices of a bureaucracy. That said, it is also the recognized first responder for relief in most situations. Despite all its ills, it does provide relief for families whose house burns down at 3 am. It does send snacks out to sites of big fires and other incidents. The 'boots on the ground' volunteers try their best but as with any volunteer organization, their skill level varies. Given all that, they are the organization recognized and called on first by most official agencies. They are funded by donations and a few things that are sold in their name. They do have a full-time staff that costs money but then, that allows them to be available all the time for 'routine' things like blood donations, teaching and military liason. They certainly are not perfect, but they fill a key niche in our nation as a relief organization. I was fascinated, when I was first involved, to learn that the volunteer committees actually 'ran' the chapters. Yes, the full-time staff and manager ran the day to day activities, but if they screwed up too bad, the volunteer committees could fire them.

As far as most of the volunteers being 'old retired people', well who do you think has the time to volunteer anyway? Contrary to that, most of my work and my friends' work was done while still among the employed. There are young people in the organization's volunteers, but they seldom can 'drop everything' and spend two weeks in a disaster shelter. Regarding their accomodations and rental cars, what would you have them do, sleep on the ground and walk? Granted when I was young, that wouldn't have fazed me, but in my senior years, I tend to work better with a good night's rest and being driven to my work location. I agree that maybe they spend the money on too high a level of accomodation but the lower priced accomodation may be already taken. It varies with what is available. Ideally, the only people working a disaster would be like our military people. They would be young, tough and able to live in tents and hike but those are not the people that can freely volunteer their time on a moments notice.

I admit that I haven't been involved with the Red Cross for many years due to location. I don't write this to defend them against all charges but to ask for understanding toward an organization that has done good but has flaws.

As far as the Salvation Army goes, I have met their people once in awhile and have heard nothing but good about them. If I had money to spare to donate, I would give some to both as we, as a nation, should stand together in time of need and BOTH organizations do much good.

Enquiring Minds
September 06, 2005, 16:12
Salvation Army (and Catholic Charities) ATTACK a disaster zone with a FAST, FLUID, SELF-CONTAINED, SEMI-AUTONOMOUS MOBILE GUERILLA FORCE. Via this model they get the most critical needs to the most people the SOONEST.

The Red Cross and FEMA are humongous, self-important, Soviet-style, CENTRAL-PLANNING bureaucracies, who don't get any meaningful traction until at least DAY *6* of a disaster, and more likely day 9 or 10.

The sooner the Lefty Media stops pussyfooting around this glaring fact (probably because SA and CC are *gasp* CHRISTIAN orgs), the sooner disaster victims will stop dying needlessly.

When you go looking for SA administrators, you usually find yourself in the "bad" low-rent part of town, glad that it's daytime. Go looking for RC execs, and you're signing in with the rent-a-cops at an upscale office building or high-rise. Guess who's got lower overhead. Those chief exec salaries quoted above are stunning.


Red Cross should be overhauled, United Way should be disbanded.

Groucho
September 06, 2005, 19:04
Personal experience:

In Vietnam, the Red Cross charged us for coffee, doughnuts and Kool-aid. The Salvation Army gave us coffee and doughnuts.

Years later when I was on a prolonged call as a volunteer fireman, the Salvation Army came by with a van full of boxed KFC chicken dinners for us. It was the evening before Thanksgiving. The call came in right before dinner time, it was butt freezing cold and those guys drove out in a lousy snow storm to feed us. At 11:00 pm, that dinner sure tasted good. The charge for dinner? Zero, zip, nadda.

The Salvation Army gets our checks including one so they can help the folks who were hammered by Katrina.

Nuff said.

Groucho

DABTL
September 06, 2005, 19:14
Originally posted by McUZI


Another pathetic liberal surfaces to show how hollow his own life would be without dedicating a part of it towards the betterment of the Negro race.

Negroes elicit the same reaction out of a liberal as catnip does to a tabby.

And racism is morphine to the redneck cracker. Get a life.

Witchhunter
September 06, 2005, 19:18
Negroes elicit the same reaction out of a liberal as catnip does to a tabby.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

McUZI
September 07, 2005, 01:17
Originally posted by DABTL


And racism is morphine to the redneck cracker. Get a life.

Are you seriously a lawyer?
Relying on such idiotic, predictable platitudes like 'redneck cracker' tells me that handing you your own ass in a courtroom setting probably wouldn't take much effort. Anyone who speaks in associatives wouldn't present themselves as much of a foe. One would know everything they were going to say well before they said it.

Now say 'ignorant'.
Then say ‘trailer park’.
Then sum it all up by saying “What, did a black guy steal your girlfriend?”

Then dance around like one of those little mechanical tin monkeys with the cymbals.

http://www.nwlink.com/~timelvis/images/monkey.gif

BUFF
September 07, 2005, 03:45
Originally posted by DABTL:

"I think the vets believed the story. I just think the story is untrue."

Well, there you have it, fellow FALFilers. The testimony of our fathers, grandfathers, uncles and even some of us counts for nothing.

Sorry, Groucho, the resident gasbag, who never set foot in Viet Nam, says he doesn't think it is true, so you must have been dreaming.

DABTL "thinks" it is untrue, so despite anyone else's experiences, it must be untrue.

Thank goodness we have such an intellect to keep us from falsehoods.

No wonder he is a liberal. Revisionist history comes so naturally to him.

Bill: did the generous Texans give all the refugee thugs lots of women's gold jewelry and several expensive ladies watches, along with those shoes? Or were those actually black female Russian athletes I met?

Red Cross, Salavation Army, I don't know. I have been watching those Red Cross volunteers busting their butts for 12 hour days now for a few days, and they are impressive. I have supported both in the past and will probably continue to do so.

BRM308
September 07, 2005, 07:38
It doesn't matter which charity you choose, just choose one.
Something will get to the people that need it.

xcpd69
September 07, 2005, 09:43
Originally posted by BUFF
Originally posted by DABTL:

"I think the vets believed the story. I just think the story is untrue."

Well, there you have it, fellow FALFilers. The testimony of our fathers, grandfathers, uncles and even some of us counts for nothing.

Sorry, Groucho, the resident gasbag, who never set foot in Viet Nam, says he doesn't think it is true, so you must have been dreaming.

DABTL "thinks" it is untrue, so despite anyone else's experiences, it must be untrue.

Thank goodness we have such an intellect to keep us from falsehoods.

No wonder he is a liberal. Revisionist history comes so naturally to him.

Bill: did the generous Texans give all the refugee thugs lots of women's gold jewelry and several expensive ladies watches, along with those shoes? Or were those actually black female Russian athletes I met?

Red Cross, Salavation Army, I don't know. I have been watching those Red Cross volunteers busting their butts for 12 hour days now for a few days, and they are impressive. I have supported both in the past and will probably continue to do so.

Uhhhh...Groucho? I believe Groucho is in fact a Vietnam Vet...

Originally posted by Groucho
Personal experience:

In Vietnam, the Red Cross charged us for coffee, doughnuts and Kool-aid. The Salvation Army gave us coffee and doughnuts.

Years later when I was on a prolonged call as a volunteer fireman, the Salvation Army came by with a van full of boxed KFC chicken dinners for us. It was the evening before Thanksgiving. The call came in right before dinner time, it was butt freezing cold and those guys drove out in a lousy snow storm to feed us. At 11:00 pm, that dinner sure tasted good. The charge for dinner? Zero, zip, nadda.

The Salvation Army gets our checks including one so they can help the folks who were hammered by Katrina.

Nuff said.

Groucho

jt325i
September 07, 2005, 10:53
Salvation Army is where my money would go. Red Cross really blew it with their 9/11 fund. Holding back money for future uses rather than using it the way people who donated intended. Not to mention the head was making big $$$. Screw that.

ftierson
September 07, 2005, 15:37
Originally posted by xcpd69


Uhhhh...Groucho? I believe Groucho is in fact a Vietnam Vet...



Uh, actually, Lonny, I think that you've misunderstood BUFF's comment...

Let me rewrite it a little differently...

Sorry Groucho...

DABTL, the resident gasbag (who never set foot in Vietnam) says he doesn't think it is true, so you must have been dreaming.

I think that captures the original intent, which, from context, seemed to be fairly clear to me anyway.

Then again, perhaps I've missed a subtle joke of yours, Lonny. I tend to do that sometimes. If so, I apologize...

Forrest

DABTL
September 07, 2005, 21:04
Originally posted by ftierson


Uh, actually, Lonny, I think that you've misunderstood BUFF's comment...

Let me rewrite it a little differently...

Sorry Groucho...

DABTL, the resident gasbag (who never set foot in Vietnam) says he doesn't think it is true, so you must have been dreaming.

I think that captures the original intent, which, from context, seemed to be fairly clear to me anyway.

Then again, perhaps I've missed a subtle joke of yours, Lonny. I tend to do that sometimes. If so, I apologize...

Forrest

An old wives tale at best. The details are always the same. No difference in the story over decades.

You can believ it if you choose.

DABTL
September 07, 2005, 21:08
Originally posted by BUFF
Originally posted by DABTL:

"I think the vets believed the story. I just think the story is untrue."

Well, there you have it, fellow FALFilers. The testimony of our fathers, grandfathers, uncles and even some of us counts for nothing.

Sorry, Groucho, the resident gasbag, who never set foot in Viet Nam, says he doesn't think it is true, so you must have been dreaming.

DABTL "thinks" it is untrue, so despite anyone else's experiences, it must be untrue.

Thank goodness we have such an intellect to keep us from falsehoods.

No wonder he is a liberal. Revisionist history comes so naturally to him.

Bill: did the generous Texans give all the refugee thugs lots of women's gold jewelry and several expensive ladies watches, along with those shoes? Or were those actually black female Russian athletes I met?

Red Cross, Salavation Army, I don't know. I have been watching those Red Cross volunteers busting their butts for 12 hour days now for a few days, and they are impressive. I have supported both in the past and will probably continue to do so.

Your bigotry is on parade. They carried everything they own on them. Men and women carried their belongings. Some had jewelry.

Your state of Utah is safe against the black hordes. As a matter of fact it is safe against most people.

I have been there to prosecute those Mormon scammers. I thought it hilarious they would wear that funny underwear with the tops showing above their shirts to convince the other Mormans on the jury that they were 'good' Mormans. Sometimes it worked.

I try to be tolerant but the Morman 'faith' is a cult and a silly one at that.

DABTL
September 07, 2005, 21:09
Originally posted by McUZI


Are you seriously a lawyer?
Relying on such idiotic, predictable platitudes like 'redneck cracker' tells me that handing you your own ass in a courtroom setting probably wouldn't take much effort. Anyone who speaks in associatives wouldn't present themselves as much of a foe. One would know everything they were going to say well before they said it.

Now say 'ignorant'.
Then say ‘trailer park’.
Then sum it all up by saying “What, did a black guy steal your girlfriend?”

Then dance around like one of those little mechanical tin monkeys with the cymbals.

http://www.nwlink.com/~timelvis/images/monkey.gif

Your justified fears of sexual inadequacy do not excuse your post. Try again.

Sig220
September 07, 2005, 21:12
Hell Bill, wake up........its not just in Utah. Call some of the agencys that dealt with these people when they first got off the bus. Some were smart enough to screen them before hand.............the result?

Guns, razor knives, drugs, large amounts of cash just to name a few. Yep they brought all they had.

You are just too blind and hardheaded to see the truth and try to counter that with personal attacks. It really is sad to see.

DreadNaught
September 07, 2005, 21:16
My 2 cents - my father joined the Army in 39 after his father's death to support his mom and 2 sisters. The Red Cross forced him to donate 1 dollar of his 26 per month (private's pay) or face never getting a promotion and getting crap duty. The few months he refused to donate, they contacted his Captain, and he had KP or worse the whole month. Needless to say that he, and now I, wouldn't give them air in jug.

By the way, who has seen any of the Red Cross on site in the affected areas? I've seen plenty of Salvation Army personnel on news reports. Knowing the state of the media today, they would knock down 20 Salvation Army folks to get to one RC person for an interview. I have yet to see any of them.

Give you bucks to the Salvation Army and the ASPCA (don't forget the poor animals - its our responsibility to care for what God has given us, and that now have been abandoned). Forget the Red Cross.

Slainte

DABTL
September 07, 2005, 21:38
Originally posted by Sig220
Hell Bill, wake up........its not just in Utah. Call some of the agencys that dealt with these people when they first got off the bus. Some were smart enough to screen them before hand.............the result?

Guns, razor knives, drugs, large amounts of cash just to name a few. Yep they brought all they had.

You are just too blind and hardheaded to see the truth and try to counter that with personal attacks. It really is sad to see.

I was there on Saturday. You are gravely mistaken.

DABTL
September 07, 2005, 21:39
Originally posted by DreadNaught
My 2 cents - my father joined the Army in 39 after his father's death to support his mom and 2 sisters. The Red Cross forced him to donate 1 dollar of his 26 per month (private's pay) or face never getting a promotion and getting crap duty. The few months he refused to donate, they contacted his Captain, and he had KP or worse the whole month. Needless to say that he, and now I, wouldn't give them air in jug.

By the way, who has seen any of the Red Cross on site in the affected areas? I've seen plenty of Salvation Army personnel on news reports. Knowing the state of the media today, they would knock down 20 Salvation Army folks to get to one RC person for an interview. I have yet to see any of them.

Give you bucks to the Salvation Army and the ASPCA (don't forget the poor animals - its our responsibility to care for what God has given us, and that now have been abandoned). Forget the Red Cross.

Slainte

Ok, I call bullshit. Put up or shut up.

Sig220
September 07, 2005, 21:43
Originally posted by DABTL


I was there on Saturday. You are gravely mistaken.

You are so fond of calling "Bull shit". I call you full of it!!

Call the Jefferson County Sheriffs Dept. and ask.......of course expecting you to report the truth.......would be asking a bit much:rofl:

FWRA
September 07, 2005, 21:52
I'm sure both do a great job....but based on my observations with the catastrophe in the gulf.....the Red Cross gets my vote as #1.

Rather than piss and moan about who's good or who's bad? Donate to both what you can afford. Both do good work....

JMHO...YOMV and YMMV

leftent
September 07, 2005, 23:06
FWIW: I have heard the donut story from two WW2 vets, my Father-in-law (Canadian Army, Sicily/Italy, NW Europe) and from my Dad (British Army, Sicily/Italy/Greece) Seems it wasn't just the US Red Cross that had that policy.
All three of us support the Sally Ann.

Leftent:fal:

STGThndr
September 08, 2005, 00:30
Altho I am not a "Christian" in any accepted sense of the word other than nominal (being a member of Judeo-Christian Western civilisation) my family donations are going to the Salvation Army specifically. The Red Cross has a bunch of overpaid fat-asses running it, right down to the community level- mercenaries. The scandals involving the Red Cross and the fact that they SELL their aid leave a bad taste in my mouth. I have seen first hand what the Salvation Army does in poor areas in the inner cities and have been impressed with the sort of people who run it- even if they do arrogate "military rank" to themselves. The SA was ON THE SCENE doling out food, clothing rides and shelter within hours.
Likewise other faith based outfits were and are putting out many millions of dollars and man-hours to help. Someone once said "By their works shall you know them". A useful standard in this case IMO.

BUFF
September 08, 2005, 01:36
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DABTL:

"Some had jewelry."

Brand new ladies jewelry with the store tags on it, worth thousands, in the possession of thugs with felony records and documented gang affiliation, that didn't even have all their teeth.

Sure, Bill. It was theirs all along.

"I have been there to prosecute those Mormon scammers. I thought it hilarious they would wear that funny underwear with the tops showing above their shirts to convince the other Mormans on the jury that they were 'good' Mormans."

Bill, you are a liar and a fool. The "funny underwear" doesn't show with a shirt on. You can't wear it above your shirt unless you wear it pulled up over your head, and no judge here is going to let someone into their courtroom like that. Like hell you saw it in court.

You lie.

Send me come cases you worked on here that I can look up and document your presense and I'll take the 'lying gasbag' thing back. Or send me your Utah bar license number.

You lie.

BUFF
September 08, 2005, 01:45
Originally posted by DABTL:

"I was there on Saturday. You are gravely mistaken."

I think some of your Texas relief people were just too stupid to screen the refugees before they got on the airplanes out.

The first airplane to leave Texas and land in Utah was a chartered Jet Blue 737. The pilot told the passengers they would be searched when they de-planed. When the airplane was searched and cleaned after the flood victims got off, they found four loaded handguns, over two dozen knives including one machete, all kinds of drugs and over $110,000 in cash, in used bills no larger than 50's.

Milk of human kindness. Salt of the earth. Every one of them.

Right.

You should evict your paying clients and let these good folks live in your rentals, Bill.

Andy the Aussie
September 08, 2005, 02:14
After the Bali bombing in 2002 a great deal of money was donated to the Red Cross specifically for their Bali Appeal, to help both the local victims and Aussies seriously injured or the families of those killed as required. It took months of shaming and a couple of expose's to get even a small portion of the $$s relaesed where it was needed most.

I have no input on the RC selling donuts and such to troops.....I do have many experiences of the Salvos showing up out of nowhere in the bush here (during exercises) and in operational (overseas) AOs to distibute tea/coffee biscuits and small comfort items to the troops. Day and night the Slavos are on the streets of Sydney (my home) helping people from all walks of life who are in dire straits due to their own stupid doing or circumstances beyond their control. I have worked with a Slavo Major who's commitment to helping the drug addicted and homeless children would shame a Saint. I have seen Salvos comforting distraught Police/Ambo/Firemen and other such men and women at horrific scenes. I have shared a beer with more than one Salvo (well they had a soft drink) in bars and pubs as they have done their rounds collecting what lose change the drunks (much like myself) will spare.

I am sure that folks on the frontlines of both organisations have the best of intentions. I feel their is less BS in the upper ranks of the Salvos.

You can guess where my $$s go.

Andy

DABTL
September 08, 2005, 05:44
Originally posted by BUFF
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by DABTL:

"Some had jewelry."

Brand new ladies jewelry with the store tags on it, worth thousands, in the possession of thugs with felony records and documented gang affiliation, that didn't even have all their teeth.

Sure, Bill. It was theirs all along.

"I have been there to prosecute those Mormon scammers. I thought it hilarious they would wear that funny underwear with the tops showing above their shirts to convince the other Mormans on the jury that they were 'good' Mormans."

Bill, you are a liar and a fool. The "funny underwear" doesn't show with a shirt on. You can't wear it above your shirt unless you wear it pulled up over your head, and no judge here is going to let someone into their courtroom like that. Like hell you saw it in court.

You lie.

Send me come cases you worked on here that I can look up and document your presense and I'll take the 'lying gasbag' thing back. Or send me your Utah bar license number.

You lie.

I will have to go look the jerk's name up. He had a fancy office in Brick Town (?) and claimed to be a 'good' Mormon. He kept his shirt unbuttoned quite low when at the courthouse with his 'good' Mormon family, thieves all.

In the late 80's and early 90's huge numbers of investment scams were centered in Salt Lake City. All by 'good' Mormons. I put the case together in Texas, leading to this jerk's indictment.

I find most Mormons to be dishonest, unless they are dealing with other Mormons.

DABTL
September 08, 2005, 05:45
Originally posted by BUFF
Originally posted by DABTL:

"I was there on Saturday. You are gravely mistaken."

I think some of your Texas relief people were just too stupid to screen the refugees before they got on the airplanes out.

The first airplane to leave Texas and land in Utah was a chartered Jet Blue 737. The pilot told the passengers they would be searched when they de-planed. When the airplane was searched and cleaned after the flood victims got off, they found four loaded handguns, over two dozen knives including one machete, all kinds of drugs and over $110,000 in cash, in used bills no larger than 50's.

Milk of human kindness. Salt of the earth. Every one of them.

Right.

You should evict your paying clients and let these good folks live in your rentals, Bill.

You repeat lies. Have a good day.

Sig220
September 08, 2005, 08:56
Buff, I think we both are wasting our time with DABTL. You could document it all in pictures and if does not fit in with his line, its a fabrication and lie. When he does acknowledge there were bad mixed in with the good, he will say it is Bush's fault. So predictable.



DABTL is too consumed by his own hatred and maybe his conduct in the past to be able to tolerate any other viewpoint then his own.

No wonder in a lawyer caste system he is a "bottom feeder".

DABTL
September 08, 2005, 15:54
Originally posted by Sig220
Buff, I think we both are wasting our time with DABTL. You could document it all in pictures and if does not fit in with his line, its a fabrication and lie. When he does acknowledge there were bad mixed in with the good, he will say it is Bush's fault. So predictable.



DABTL is too consumed by his own hatred and maybe his conduct in the past to be able to tolerate any other viewpoint then his own.

No wonder in a lawyer caste system he is a "bottom feeder".

Buff is a liar, plain and simple. You cannot get on a plane in Texas without the security checks. Period. If you think that then you have no clue about flying in the United States from and since 9/11.

Get a life.

MTS
September 08, 2005, 18:20
An old fellow I used to work with served in WW2 in artillery, Korea and Viet Nam as a crash fireman, and in the early days at NASA in fire protection.

His account of the Red Cross across three conflicts mirrors what has been reported here. He had no use for them.

I have to add that he was quite a guy and one of a very few co-workers that I can say that I miss.

Groucho
September 08, 2005, 19:37
Look, just give to the charity of your choice. I made and acted upon my decision based on my experiences.

BTW, there's a good chance that DABL doesn't really exist. He may be an urban legend of the FAL Files. He even could be a creation of the Evil Moderator! Yeah, it could be true!:rofl:

Have a great day and help those who need it in the best way you can.

Groucho

BUFF
September 08, 2005, 20:04
Originally posted by DABTL:

"Buff is a liar, plain and simple. You cannot get on a plane in Texas without the security checks. Period. If you think that then you have no clue about flying in the United States from and since 9/11."

DABTL:

The evacuees didn't board the airlift aircraft through the normal commercial terminal gates.

I trust what I see first-hand, what law enforcement officers that I have known for years see first-hand, far more than what some gasbag internet troll like you claims.

Keep looking for that name. I have never heard of "Brick Town."

Originally posted by DABTL:

"I find most Mormons to be dishonest, unless they are dealing with other Mormons."

I guess water seeks it's own level.

SIG220:

You are probably right. I guess reading anything DABTL posts is a true waste of time and a sacrifice of otherwise useful electrons.

DABTL
September 08, 2005, 20:18
Originally posted by BUFF
Originally posted by DABTL:

"Buff is a liar, plain and simple. You cannot get on a plane in Texas without the security checks. Period. If you think that then you have no clue about flying in the United States from and since 9/11."

DABTL:

The evacuees didn't board the airlift aircraft through the normal commercial terminal gates.

I trust what I see first-hand, what law enforcement officers that I have known for years see first-hand, far more than what some gasbag internet troll like you claims.

Keep looking for that name. I have never heard of "Brick Town."

Originally posted by DABTL:

"I find most Mormons to be dishonest, unless they are dealing with other Mormons."

I guess water seeks it's own level.

SIG220:

You are probably right. I guess reading anything DABTL posts is a true waste of time and a sacrifice of otherwise useful electrons.

Right, just jumped on a plane with guns, like no one would think to screen them.

Then, you have no knowledge other than cop gossip, reliable cop gossip you claim, and want to have everyone believe you because you are a LEO?

Even you know that would not make it in a JP Court.

Give it up, you can't possibly believe that crap.

FWRA
September 08, 2005, 20:18
Many donations are made by plain working folks who put together neighboorhood drives for water, food, paper supplies to send directly to the disaster areas and that's admirable too. Thousands of folks, church groups from all over this great country have come to the aid hurricaine victims...the nightly news is full of such wonderful stories every night. There are many ways to help but in lieu of that? Contributions to the Red Cross and Salvation Army the best way to assure that help continues until the job gets done.

Arguing about who is the worthy agency does nothing to help. Give some to the RC...give some to SA....but give what you can.

When we needed server upgrades here many of us gave willingly to get that job done. The current disaster in the gulf coast wont go away anytime soon and we need to do what we can now and cash donations no matter how small add up quickly. If every American sent $5 imagine what we could accomplish?

I choose the American Red Cross but have donated locally as well. Eventually that sum total of all donations made by Americans WILL make a difference.

Best to do what your conscience dictates.

Just the ramblings of an old man. :) If you feel better just debating which relief agency is best? Carry on.

FWRA

DABTL
September 08, 2005, 20:37
Been looking at the problem of most bang for the buck all week myself.

Amateur agencies cannot deliver with the efficiency of the Red Cross.

The Salvation Army probably gives more bang for the buck, but less bucks.

Here, amateurs took over the relief effort and did extremely well. The local government failed miserably to jump into the problem.

We now have to decide where to put our disaster relief money. Red Cross? Salvation Army? Local schools?

Mad Dog 7.62
September 08, 2005, 23:37
Originally posted by DABTL

An old wives tale at best. The details are always the same. No difference in the story over decades.


Bill, you hit the nail on the head. Everyone knows that when you hear the same story, consistently, from a lot of different people, over a period of time, they obviously are telling lies.

On the other hand, when your client and his six homeys he was arrested with all tell completely different stories about what happened, and then change thier version every five minutes, well, every good liar, er, lawyer, knows they are obviously telling the truth. Yep, inconsistencies are the hallmark of an honest man.
MD

BUFF
September 09, 2005, 04:48
DABTL:

Still waiting for you to provide the name and court citation or reference or case number for the "jerk... in ... Brick Town" scam artist, so I can look it up.

To use your phrase, "Put up or shut up."

DABTL
September 09, 2005, 06:17
Originally posted by BUFF
DABTL:

Still waiting for you to provide the name and court citation or reference or case number for the "jerk... in ... Brick Town" scam artist, so I can look it up.

To use your phrase, "Put up or shut up."

Just another Morman scammer. I have been busy, but I will try to locate your bretheren's name.

By the way, I enjoy reading your fantasy life story.

I talked to my wife this morning and she cannot recall the little scammers name either.

Time passes as do bad memories.

DABTL
September 09, 2005, 06:22
Originally posted by Mad Dog 7.62


Bill, you hit the nail on the head. Everyone knows that when you hear the same story, consistently, from a lot of different people, over a period of time, they obviously are telling lies.

On the other hand, when your client and his six homeys he was arrested with all tell completely different stories about what happened, and then change thier version every five minutes, well, every good liar, er, lawyer, knows they are obviously telling the truth. Yep, inconsistencies are the hallmark of an honest man.
MD

The problem with eyewitnesses is they all see a different perspective, happens all the time.

The BS tale about sales of cigarettes and donuts is they all have the same basic outline. Everyone later discovers these were donated cigarettes and donuts. Always the Red Cross and no one raised the issue at the time. Not a bit of written material contemporaneus to the events.

Always it is heard from some elderly person who was there. So far no one has pointed to any complaint, document or outrage by the GIs involved. They can raise hell about jamming guns, bad food, no armour and such all of which are legit gripes and well documented. But a scamming charity? That would draw huge attention and protest.

So, it is an old wives tale.

hooahhooah
September 09, 2005, 11:25
What does the "cross" in red cross stand for?

They have turned their back on their Christian roots to gain world acceptability.



The salvation army has not turned their back on Christ, support them instead!

skuld
September 09, 2005, 11:37
Go with the Salvation Army.

During WWII the Red Cross had a lot of pledge drives and such to support the troops and raise money for them, then turned around a charged the troops a nickel a cup for coffe, same as what they'd pay for it in town. This really, really pissed of my uncle at the time. The salvation Army on the other hand, also raised money for the troops, but gave their coffee away.

Weldon was at Bennett Field in, I think, Kansas during WWII. This was his personal experience, not something he read or heard about. My granddad was in the Aluetian Islands and other family members were scattered throughout the Pacific Theater. They all reported care packages from Red Cross and Salvation Army and other charities. But, due to Weldon's exprience, uncle Weldon, and the rest of the family, always gave generously to the Salvation Army, and not a dime to the Red Cross.

Also, I don't like how the Red Cross magically becomes the Red Cresent in muslim areas. If I give to the Red Cross for tsunami relief, by God I want the Red Cross handing out that relief, not the red cresent!

I hear that the red cross's overhead is sky high.

But mainly due to their practices in WWII, my family will not give them a dime.

However, I will say that when my granddad was dying, it was the Red Cross who tracked down dad (he was on leave in Greece) and helped make arrangements to get him to the states. Unfortunately it was too late, but he was able to make the funeral.


-skuld

L/FN
September 10, 2005, 13:03
Cruising the net ( with what little time I have) to read more about gun confiscations in NO and had a brain storm. I'm not a organizer or internet wiz, but why doesn't some Weapon or Patriot board start up a fund raiser for re-arming the citizens of the Gulf coast who lose their legally owned firearms?

Larry