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View Full Version : Port. surplus ammo/M444- more problems


MP906
April 02, 2002, 20:10
Well I got my M444 back from Liberty. It functions now, well kind of. The stuck action problem seems to be fixed.

The other day at the range only every other round of my Portugese 7.62 was popping off. The primers had pretty good dents, but no bang. I had forty rounds of British surplus that all worked fine. I tried several boxes of the Port(out of the same battle pack). Same results. Now I've used this stuff exclusively and never had problems. I send off the rifle to the shop and suddenly it won't shoot. Could there be a problem w/ the rifle. Maybe Liberty jacked something up?


Any ideas? Between this, the damn Hesse muzzle brake, and having one trip back to Liberty already, I'm starting to wish I saved up for a DSA.

shootist
April 02, 2002, 20:31
Or saved some money and bought a Century

MP906
April 02, 2002, 21:42
Good point. That same day at the range a guy had an Imbel Century FAL. He let me shoot a mag full of my Port. 7.62 to see if it was bad ammo or my rifle causing the problem. Well, only one out of twenty did'nt go bang. That is much better than 10/20.

One other thing, After I manuaully ejected the dud round, the next would fire, but the next would not. It seemed that if I manually cycled, it would shoot off, but in semi-auto, it would not. The second time my M444 has been reduced to a single shot rifle!!!

Also, that Century was UGLY compared to my M444, but man it was a joy to shoot. The recoil was half that of mine and my cheek actually remained on the stock w/ no pain.

Anyway, I'm toying with either selling this thing or fixing the muzzle brake. But first I need to figure out this firing pin/ammo problem.

Ah what a great first FAL experience. :rolleyes:

[ April 02, 2002: Message edited by: MP906 ]

Shrike
April 02, 2002, 21:52
check all the cases and see if you are getting light strikes... especially on the rounds that are not firing. you may just need a new fireing pin.
Im no gunsmith, and i dont play one on TV but maybe the hammer spring is worn out?
Maybe you should try from a different battle pack, maybe that stuff got really wet or something?
Im probably wrong, but thats all i could think of...
Gary what do the rest of you think?
Mike

Shrike
April 02, 2002, 21:54
Originally posted by shootist:
<STRONG>Or saved some money and bought a Century</STRONG>

Century sucks, stay away. The people at Century are a thieves.

usmc326
April 02, 2002, 22:19
I think I'd order some springs from DSA. Their Spring Combo Replacement
pack might be the best deal if it contains all of the springs you need.

You won't be the first to have FAL problems resolved with just new springs. With DSA you know you're getting "new", or "as new", not takeoffs from worn rifles.

Get a firing pin too, as you can always use it as a spare if your's is okay, as they do break. I'd replace that Hesse brake too.

[ April 02, 2002: Message edited by: usmc326 ]

pmf
April 03, 2002, 07:51
I agree on replacing the firing pin and springs with a DSA kit. Sounds like that is your problem.

I've heard some of those breaks on the M444 result in a brutal recoil while the newer ones are OK. Agree that the CAI FAL is one ugly rifle. Glad I ponied up the $800 for the DSA. I've never regretted it.

I've fired several hundred rounds of port thru my DSA stg-58 and only had one dud. I've heard that surplus ammo can come in bad batches. Like the 400 rounds of 7.62x25 I bought at a gun show for my CZ-52 pistol. Took it to the range for the first time and only one in twenty rounds fired. The newly produced stuff fires fine (if I could hit the wide side of a barn with that thing).

Don't give up on the M444, with a little more money, you'll get it working.

Muggzy
April 03, 2002, 08:23
My self and others are having problems with the Port. ammo. Don't assume it's your FAL.
I replaced the hammer spring and plunger and firing pin and that did help but not 100%.
SA, Hirt and Radway all shoot 100%
Afterthought I use the Port. in the Chopo and it shoots 100% in it

[ April 03, 2002: Message edited by: Muggzy ]

FALJUNKIE
April 03, 2002, 13:40
Just tried my 444 out yesterday with Hirt ammo and did not have any problems at all. From what you said it works fine with other ammo but not Port than I would suspect the ammo. I am just giving an opinion so take it with a grain of salt. As you stated the other rifle didn't set all your Port off either.

pmf
April 03, 2002, 15:42
Eeee gads, don't say that ... I'm the proud owner of 2000 rounds of Port from aimsurplus. The packaging sure seems good. Now I'm worried. Guess I need to test some more of it.

W.E.G.
April 03, 2002, 16:38
No doubt that some "surplus" ammo is actually "reject" ammo. Price is often an indicator of quality.

I would be interested to know whether any of those "dud" rounds fired when subjected to a second strike of the firing pin.

SoManyGun'sSoLittleTime
April 03, 2002, 16:41
i had the same problem with port i cut 1 coil off fp spring and now it woorks great ps any one out there have a fal with the original HTS??? how does it do with port my went threw 500 rnds with the original HTS and then i replaced the HTS with US and 1-3rnds click. some thing to think about!!! :eek: :(

W.E.G.
April 03, 2002, 16:44
...also would like to know the headspace dimensions on the rifle that is giving the difficulty.

Offctr
April 03, 2002, 17:09
Originally posted by gary.jeter:
<STRONG>No doubt that some "surplus" ammo is actually "reject" ammo. Price is often an indicator of quality.

I would be interested to know whether any of those "dud" rounds fired when subjected to a second strike of the firing pin.</STRONG>


I would also like to know how rounds from that lot/ battlepack function in other rifles IE do they fire fine first strike in another weapon ?
I agree with check your firing pin and its protrusion also hammer face cross pin and spring.
You may also want to check to make sure the bolt is completely closing or locking up right.

[ April 03, 2002: Message edited by: Offctr ]

flight 556
April 03, 2002, 19:03
At the last Texas fal shoot the shooter next to me was having the same problem as described here. Some springs were replaced and the problem persisted. We ran the port ammo that FTF through my Armalite with no problems. The port managed to fire even though the primer was dented from the fal. I tend to think that the springs are worn in the parts guns and need to be replaced to function properly. The firing pin could be worn as well.

Dlagrua
April 03, 2002, 21:50
Have fired about 500 rounds in my M-444 without one failure. I have noticed though that this ammo is not as hot as new domestically produced .308 or the 7.62 x 51 NATO Hirtenberger. The Portguese ammo may have hard primers requiring an "up to spec" or new hammer spring.

floatingFAL
April 03, 2002, 23:58
I had to clip the FP springs in both my L's
to shoot the port.Had the same problem a few
years ago with chilean but didn't know how to fix it then.The new hammer spring helped but didn't fix.Shoots fine in the M1A.
Ryan

Mr Paul Caruso
April 04, 2002, 02:25
I had the same problem with one batch of the Port ammo. The lot # is 76-33. I would get a failure to fire one out of every twenty or so. Thankfully, I only bought 200 rounds of this lot. I have a full case of lot # 79-65 and have experienced no problems through 300 rounds so far. Great ammo, just avoid that lot.

Muggzy
April 04, 2002, 08:12
Originally posted by gary.jeter:
<STRONG>No doubt that some "surplus" ammo is actually "reject" ammo. Price is often an indicator of quality.

I would be interested to know whether any of those "dud" rounds fired when subjected to a second strike of the firing pin.</STRONG>

Some did. Some did not. If I had the Chopo with me I would run 'em through it and they all fired. I have not tried clipping the FP spring. I'll do that tonight cause I'm scheduled for a range trip tomorrow. Headspace? hhhmmmmmmmm :rolleyes:

MP906
April 04, 2002, 16:55
I think I've made up my mind to replace the firing pin and maybe all the springs. Than I'm going to have the barrel cut down to 18" and throw an X-series stock on there. Oh, and I'll be sticking to South African stuff from now on.

Is it necessary to have the gas port adjusted when having the barrel cut down to 18"??? If so, why?

I was going to sell it and save a little for a DSA. I've decided to tinker w/ it and then also get the DSA later. This will be my "beater" FAL, the DSA my baby.