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Old December 02, 2011, 06:41   #1
In His Grip
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Ever heard of F&D Defence ?

Look here
The thing looks very nice. Anyone know about them?
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.

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Old December 02, 2011, 07:39   #2
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That thing is a work of art! I see why it is going for so much. It has to be one of the nicest AR's ever made.
I don't know, But I do know that in the world of FAL's, it is extremely unwise to say something along the lines of "That model never existed with that feature." cuz sure enough, someone will prove you wrong. "the gman"
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Old December 02, 2011, 08:18   #3
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Not much AR DNA left in that puppy!

I agree that the workmanship is outstanding, but on the other hand I'm just not a big fan of gas piston AR modifications.

I have quite a bit of experience with ARs, and the issues supposedly inherent in the AR gas system - mostly centered around the "it poops where it eats" mantra - are very much overblown. With modern ammunition, there just isn't that much of a fouling problem, and the fouling that does occur pretty much gets pushed out of the way (I hesitate to say "self cleans") on the next shot. With an AR, pretty much all of your cleaning efforts, outside of the bore, is centered in the bolt and bolt carrier. And the AR design makes these areas quick and easy to get to and easy to clean.

One of the real strokes of genius of the AR design is exactly the gas system - the way that the gas piston/cylinder is incorporated into the bolt/carrier. This eliminates the issue of a big heavy piston slapping back and forth way out there over the top of the barrel, which disturbs accuracy. Also the standard AR gas system aligns all of its cycling thrusts right down the center of the bore and carrier.

The problem that is seldom if ever addressed in these gas piston modifications to the AR is the problem with bolt carrier tilt. If you look at the AR bolt carrier and the way it moves inside the upper receiver you will see that there is minimum guiding of the carrier. You have the rib on top in which the gas key and charging handle reside, but there are no other rails inside the receiver or on the carrier to guide the carrier in its cycle. Just not necessary, considering that the operating impulse of the piston-in-bolt design of the AR directs all of its thrust right on the center line axis of the bolt and carrier.

But if you move the operating impulse off center, as these modifications do - replacing the gas key with a lug against which the piston pushes - you now introduce a force that wants to push the rear of the carrier down. This eventually - and it doesn't take a whole bunch of shots - to begin to show wear at the bottom front of the receiver extension.

If you really want to do a gas-piston-over-barrel AR, then you've got to figure out a way to guide the bolt carrier so as to prevent carrier tilt. You need to add some sort of rails to the carrier and to the receiver exactly like the rails in which the carrier rides on the FAL. But then you increase manufacturing costs, and to what end when the AR system works as is.
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Old December 02, 2011, 10:48   #4
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I have no interest in AR anything.........

But, that is one serious looking piece. If I had the spare cake, I would take a stab at it. I especially like that it would be unique (i.e., the only one offered to the public). And the lifetime warranty (+ free upgrades) would certainly alleviate concerns over reliability.

What the HELL is he building in there?

Last edited by harleyrider; December 02, 2011 at 10:55.
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Old December 02, 2011, 10:57   #5
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Hmmm, that's the prototype, the production LW (lifetime warranty) gun is available for $2850, the UW (Unlimited Lifetime Warranty) is $3450.

the auction at the moment is at $3100..

I think I would just go with the LW unless you think the low serial number is worth the extra money.
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Old December 03, 2011, 02:28   #6
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I don't know anything about the company, but searching the 'net got the info below. I'm not sure I'd put a lot of faith in that lifetime warranty, but that's just me.

"Course, I'm not interested in a .308 or .338 AR either.

F&D Defense in Leander, TX is a private company which is listed under small arms. Current estimates show this company has an annual revenue of $100,000 and employs a staff of 3.


Year Founded: 2009

Entity Type: Sole Proprietorship

F&D Defense's objective is to become a small sized manufacturer of the highest quality semi-automatic and automatic firearms available and to continue developing a wide range of advanced defense products; maintaining niche-market standards while developing and patenting novel defense products.

F&D's principles are based upon the performance on all agreements before deadlines and with a consistently high level of quality and customer service. We will always include extra freebies when delivering on agreements made with any individual, company, or organization.

F&D is able to manufacture, inspect, and assemble 50 rifles per month utilizing one vertical machining center, one turning center, and 2 employees (total) with existing support equipment. F&D personnel have proven themselves highly competent in design/engineering, complex machining practices, and lean production techniques throughout various industries including firearms.

Seems like this is the same outfit;
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