The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Weapon Specific Forums > The FN Files

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old September 28, 2011, 14:13   #1
Zeusizme
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 64239
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 1,028
Question does anyone make chrome lined US barrels

Are there any US manufactures that make chrome lined FAL barrels. I see that DSA doesn't and I don't understand that. It only costs $50 more to get an AR barrel that is chrome lined so I don't see it as cost prohibitive for anyone to do. I would rather buy a quality made US barrel that is chrome lined than use a questionable foreign made new or used barrel.
__________________
Shoot it until it smokes!
Zeusizme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 28, 2011, 14:37   #2
MistWolf
Registered
 
MistWolf's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7435
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Utah
Posts: 2,497
The foreign made barrels are original and getting scarce.

The extra $50 for a chrome lined won't buy enough aditional durability to make a difference compared to the expense of the amount of ammo needed to shoot out a non-lined barrel and to replace it
__________________
I should have followed my childhood dream of becoming a Mad Storyteller
MistWolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 28, 2011, 14:39   #3
Sig220
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 11622
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: SE Texas
Posts: 5,034
Re: does anyone make chrome lined US barrels

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeusizme
Are there any US manufactures that make chrome lined FAL barrels. I see that DSA doesn't and I don't understand that. It only costs $50 more to get an AR barrel that is chrome lined so I don't see it as cost prohibitive for anyone to do. I would rather buy a quality made US barrel that is chrome lined than use a questionable foreign made new or used barrel.
I don't think there are any US made chrome lined FAL barrels on a true market scale. I don't even think DSA makes them, as they probably have a contract with a barrel maker.

The reasons probably have to do with the "market" and the fact there is little to gain with a chrome lined barrel over a moly barrel. I doubt we could "shoot" out a surplus barrel much less a new one!!! Have to have a deep pocket to even try

There are always different opinions about which surplus FAL had the best "barrel maker", but its hard to get better then a true "FN" on a metric rifle.

As for as "questionable" foreign made barrels........who/what are you speaking of??

As always YMMV and all that. Need to add that the FAL never was considered a target rifle, but a battle rifle.
__________________
Sometimes you are the bug.....sometimes the windshield.
Sig220 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 28, 2011, 16:37   #4
Zeusizme
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 64239
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 1,028
Your right DSA doesn't make any chrome lined barrels. Chrome lining does reduce accuracy but saves the bore from harm while shooting harsh ammo like corrosive and tracers. I just feel that if they aren’t good enough for military service than why should we civilians have to skimp. As for questionable foreign made barrels I just have a hard time trusting what comes out of 3rd world countries even if they have a FN license to produce the product. I just don't think that the QC is as good as what it would be coming from an industrialized country. Case in point, look at China, they have come a long way but they are still years behind the industrialized countries of the world in the ability to manufacture finer items like scopes. There is a scope manufacture here in the US that has all the parts made stateside and then shipped to china for assembly because they don't have the machining technology to make them from scratch there and be the quality that is desired.
__________________
Shoot it until it smokes!
Zeusizme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 28, 2011, 17:06   #5
Chopper Greg
Registered
 
Chopper Greg's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 64278
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 73
Not to change the subject, but I was looking into FAL barrels, and read some place about nitriding the barrel instead of chroming it - thus gaining a number of benefits of chrome, without the loss of accuracy.

In relation to OP's question, is this actually an option and does it work, and if so, how does it compare in cost?
Chopper Greg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 28, 2011, 18:03   #6
Zeusizme
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 64239
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 1,028
I can't exactly recall what is currently being done to AR-10 barrels. It is some kind of ceramic if I remember right. It is better than chrome because it can be applied in a more even coat to the bore and I think that it lasts longer if I'm not mistaken. What I am looking for is a barrel that will outlive me and all the abuse I throw at it.
__________________
Shoot it until it smokes!
Zeusizme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 28, 2011, 18:11   #7
palmettomoon
Veteran Member
Gold Contributor
 
palmettomoon's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 33994
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Macon, GA
Posts: 1,752
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeusizme
[B]..... I just have a hard time trusting what comes out of 3rd world countries even if they have a FN license to produce the product. I just don't think that the QC is as good as what it would be coming from an industrialized country. ...B]
If you run across any of those cheap crap FMAP Argentine barrels, rifles, or receivers, hook a slumming brother up... I like cheap 3rd world crap.
palmettomoon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 28, 2011, 19:03   #8
def90
Dinosaur
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50609
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 10,753
Quote:
Originally posted by palmettomoon


If you run across any of those cheap crap FMAP Argentine barrels, rifles, or receivers, hook a slumming brother up... I like cheap 3rd world crap.
I don't think Argentina comes close to being a 3rd world country..

At the same time, I am not sure that there are even any 3rd world countries producing arms other than the guys in the mountains of Afghanistan.

As for the OP.. do you really shoot corrosive ammo? I haven't even seen any 7.62 Nato that is corrosive, and tracers? Hmmm, guess I watched a friend shoot a couple tracers, was fun after the 1st one and then ho hum after that. I would imagine that even with tracers and corrosive ammo you would still have to shoot a ton of it to wear out a surplus barrel. Why not just buy one those cheap beat up South African barrels from APEX and shoot the crap out of that?
__________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of creatures Chuck Norris allows to live.
def90 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 28, 2011, 20:53   #9
Zeusizme
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 64239
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 1,028
yes I do shoot corosive ammo from time to time, spanish cetme 308, its lower pressure, 112 gr bullet. I also got a good deal on tracer projos a few years back and they are cheap fun to shoot. I was just wanting input on how the argy kits were for people, I plan on buying one and wanted to make sure I wasnt going to get a lemon. sounds like they are pretty good.
__________________
Shoot it until it smokes!
Zeusizme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 28, 2011, 21:00   #10
Zeusizme
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 64239
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 1,028
wait wrong thread for the argy stuff. dont surf the forum on your phone i guess. I was just wondering if there was a manufacture who was chrome lining barrels in the US.
__________________
Shoot it until it smokes!
Zeusizme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 28, 2011, 22:49   #11
R.Erichsen
Registered
 
R.Erichsen's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 63346
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: California, desert Southwest
Posts: 171
Quote:
Originally posted by Chopper Greg
Not to change the subject, but I was looking into FAL barrels, and read some place about nitriding the barrel instead of chroming it - thus gaining a number of benefits of chrome, without the loss of accuracy.

In relation to OP's question, is this actually an option and does it work, and if so, how does it compare in cost?
I'm a big believer in salt bath nitriding. Badger makes most (if not all) of the current US production FAL barrels, they aren't chrome lined but that really isn't a problem for the average shooter.

Considering the cost of ammunition, even assuming you managed to get a bulk discount buying surplus 7.62x51 by the crate strapped to a pallet, you'd need to abuse your rifle beyond what "old dirty" has suffered http://ronocracy.blogspot.com/2007/0...as-legend.html and it would still probably take you 6000+ rounds to shoot the barrel out. Needless to say, even optimistically you are talking about close to three thousand in ammo and shipping charges.

I don't know what your significant other limits your ammo budget to, but it's probably fair to say the endurance of a plain chrome-moly steel barrel is beyond most owners lifetimes.

If you want to improve on corrosion resistance inside and outside of the barrel, nitriding will do that for you and add wear resistance as well. It's not cheap, the best price I've gotten for low volume is around $40 a barrel from MMI Trutec in quantities of around 4 barrels per order. I've read barrel life increases of 5-7 times over a plain barrel, but I'd suggest that with the jet of hot gases still eroding the chamber it's probably more like 2-3 times, about what we'd expect from a chrome lined barrel but without the dimensional inconsistencies of chrome and part of the base metal rather than a brittle layer applied on top. As mentioned, it's probably overkill unless you live in a wet environment, hate cleaning your rifle after shooting it or have the jing to put thousands or rounds through it every year, but it is an available.

R
R.Erichsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29, 2011, 04:47   #12
palmettomoon
Veteran Member
Gold Contributor
 
palmettomoon's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 33994
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Macon, GA
Posts: 1,752
Quote:
Originally posted by def90


I don't think Argentina comes close to being a 3rd world country..

I can see my attempt at humor fell flat here.
palmettomoon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 29, 2011, 04:53   #13
BC
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 752
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: cc
Posts: 2,851
The speed limit is about 65 miles per hour. Why do they build cars that can go faster than 65?

Isn't it same idea for the chrome lined barrels? (The faster than 65 mph cars?)
BC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 29, 2011, 06:21   #14
harleyrider
Veteran Member
Gold Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 55746
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,838
Quote:
Originally posted by BC
The speed limit is about 65 miles per hour. Why do they build cars that can go faster than 65?

Isn't it same idea for the chrome lined barrels? (The faster than 65 mph cars?)
Yes.

BTW, my amplifiers go to 11.

HR
__________________
What the HELL is he building in there?
harleyrider is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 29, 2011, 06:54   #15
Lee Carpentieri
Old Fart
Gold Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 4936
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Florida Where it's Hot and Humid
Posts: 5,037
DSA Chrome lined barrels

DSA made chrome lined barrels for the Isreali HB's and the German G-1 Barrels.

FN MI Hammer Forged Blanks, Chrome Lined, Threaded. High Quality Military Replacement Barrel. U.S. Made.
Their out of the G-1 barrels, But still have the Isreali heavy barrels made in the USA that are chrome lined.
__________________
Live life to the fullest, Because in the end there's only death and taxs.
Lee Carpentieri is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 29, 2011, 07:01   #16
warsteiner_1970
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 54189
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 1,039
This 308 is corrosive...http://samcoglobal.com/Ammo-308-win.html..This stuff and a nice hot East TN humid summer, rusted/frosted a Garand barrel overnight... ...My fault though...
__________________
"Well Rat Spit"

Last edited by warsteiner_1970; September 29, 2011 at 07:09.
warsteiner_1970 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 29, 2011, 09:23   #17
Zeusizme
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 64239
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 1,028
I think the point is getting through. If we can get the best barrel then why not spend the extra cash. I agree that most people will never shoot 5,000 rounds through a barrel but do the math 500 rounds per year times 10 years is 5,000. Its not that we all need the chrome lined hammer forged barrel but why should we be forced to skimp.
__________________
Shoot it until it smokes!
Zeusizme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29, 2011, 10:46   #18
y0rlik
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 56423
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Newark, DE
Posts: 384
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeusizme
I think the point is getting through. If we can get the best barrel then why not spend the extra cash. I agree that most people will never shoot 5,000 rounds through a barrel but do the math 500 rounds per year times 10 years is 5,000. Its not that we all need the chrome lined hammer forged barrel but why should we be forced to skimp.
I think you're missing the point here. While you may want a chrome lined barrel and money is no object, how many other people out there are of the same mindset? Most people are on a budget and/or are cheap. Most people won't pay the extra $100 or so it would take to get a chrome lined barrel. It's the same reason you get people buying $700 DPMS AR's when you can get a Colt 6920 for $1000. Yes, chrome lined barrels may be better, but that is irrelevant to the situation at hand. The situation is that the FAL market, as much as we may wish it otherwise, is a very niche market. Market dynamics, not the manufacturer's whim, dictate that no new chrome lined barrels are made.

How many people are really interested in buying new chrome lined barrels every year? There can't be that many, especially as the kits are drying up. Ask any of the smiths on the board how long it takes them to sell a small run (200 pieces or so) of specially made parts. It takes them years. The situation is no different for the chrome lined barrels. By the time a manufacturer tools up to do a run of barrels, they want to be reasonably sure that it will sell in a timely manner. Also, most of the time they only have a single production line for a niche product (e.g., FAL barrels). If they tool up to produce chrome lined barrels, they can't be making unlined barrels at the same time (owing to the small dimensional differences between the two). If they start with an unlined barrel, they could rebore it and then chrome it, but then that's a one-off custom job which costs big money which most people won't pay. Overall, if they can't justify the added expense of chrome lining because the barrels won't sell at a price people are willing to pay and at a price which provides an acceptable return on investment, then they won't make chrome lined barrels. Since unlined barrels are cheaper/easier to produce and have a larger market, they provide a better return on investment than chrome lined barrels, and we only get new unlined barrels on the market.

If you really want a chrome lined barrel, buy surplus (and not all quality surplus barrels were chrome lined -- e.g., the Austrians didn't chrome line the StG-58 barrels) or contact a barrel maker for a custom job and be prepared to pay an arm and a leg.

ETA: The reason it only costs $50 more for a chrome lined AR barrel is because they sell a ton of AR barrels in general, and there is enough of a market for chrome lined barrels to make it worth while. There also happen to be manufacturers selling rifles with new production chrome lined barrels, so there is a captive market already. There is no similar market for a chrome lined FAL barrel (especially since surplus barrels to date have been fairly readily available at an affordable price).

Think about it like this. If you are a barrel maker and you make 10,000 AR barrels per year, and 10% of your customers (including both retail and wholesale customers) want chrome lining, that's 1000 chrome lined barrels you can sell. Since the tooling costs are largely fixed, it makes sense to offer chrome lining as an option. On the other hand, if you make only 1000 FAL barrels a year, and the same 10% want chrome lining, thats 100 chrome lined barrels you can sell. Once again, since tooling costs are largely fixed, the production cost per barrel goes up, but presumably the sale price won't increase at the same rate, so your rate of return is correspondingly lower. The actual numbers will vary, but the point remains: there isn't a sufficiently large market for a chrome lined FAL barrel to make it a good investment.

Last edited by y0rlik; September 29, 2011 at 11:00.
y0rlik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29, 2011, 13:44   #19
Zeusizme
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 64239
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 1,028
I do agree that the FAL market is a niche market and that is our problem with getting great barrels instead of good barrels. There is only a small percent of people who own guns who will shoot them enough to demand only the best. I understand that that is why DSA doesn't offer chrome lined anymore, it's simple supply and demand economics. maybe in 20 years when all the foreign made barrels have completely dried up we will see enough demand to justify making them. I just don't have the self control to just look at a gun in the safe and not want to take it out and run several hundred rounds thru it every month or two. I know that there are more popular battle rifles out there that garner the primo barrels because of volume of sales.
I wonder if DSA sends their AR barrels out for chrome or do they do it in house. either way just send a few FAL barrels along for the chrome ride to cut costs.
The other way to do all of this is to just turn more people into FAL Freaks.
__________________
Shoot it until it smokes!
Zeusizme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29, 2011, 15:50   #20
Chopper Greg
Registered
 
Chopper Greg's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 64278
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally posted by R.Erichsen


snip

I don't know what your significant other limits your ammo budget to, but it's probably fair to say the endurance of a plain chrome-moly steel barrel is beyond most owners lifetimes.

If you want to improve on corrosion resistance inside and outside of the barrel, nitriding will do that for you and add wear resistance as well. It's not cheap, the best price I've gotten for low volume is around $40 a barrel from MMI Trutec in quantities of around 4 barrels per order. I've read barrel life increases of 5-7 times over a plain barrel, but I'd suggest that with the jet of hot gases still eroding the chamber it's probably more like 2-3 times, about what we'd expect from a chrome lined barrel but without the dimensional inconsistencies of chrome and part of the base metal rather than a brittle layer applied on top. As mentioned, it's probably overkill unless you live in a wet environment, hate cleaning your rifle after shooting it or have the jing to put thousands or rounds through it every year, but it is an available.

R
All my wife knows is that I have ammunition - other than that she really doesn't care about it as long as the bills are being paid ( and she doesn't actually see it coming into the house ).

As for the environmental factors, it is mostly dry, but during the monsoons, we will see rain every day or every couple of days for a month or so during the summer - and because of a chronic medical condition, it may be a while before the rifle is cleaned ( mostly because of a sensitivity to chemicals, it may be a week or two between cleaning one firearm to the point where I clean the next and if I take the entire collection ........ I think you get the picture ). It's not an optimum situation, but $40 is a small price to pay for a bit of insurance and increased barrel life.


Quote:
Originally posted by BC
The speed limit is about 65 miles per hour. Why do they build cars that can go faster than 65?

Isn't it same idea for the chrome lined barrels? (The faster than 65 mph cars?)
I would quibble that in some places the speed limit is 75 mph, and many cars will reach that ( with time and a tail wind ), but have almost nothing left in reserve, to climb a hill at that speed.

I would then say that chrome lined barrels are insurance against operating in less than optimum conditions when shooting corrosive ammo and/or dealing with damp/wet conditions and/or not able to clean the rifle right away.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeusizme
I do agree that the FAL market is a niche market and that is our problem with getting great barrels instead of good barrels. There is only a small percent of people who own guns who will shoot them enough to demand only the best. I understand that that is why DSA doesn't offer chrome lined anymore, it's simple supply and demand economics. maybe in 20 years when all the foreign made barrels have completely dried up we will see enough demand to justify making them.
I think you are right - we might be seeing some of the dry up of good foreign barrels already starting to show, but until the demand increases further than it already is, we will have to wait a bit before lower cost USA made barrels start showing up and then simple competition between companies will bring out high quality barrels.
Chopper Greg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29, 2011, 17:22   #21
MistWolf
Registered
 
MistWolf's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 7435
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Utah
Posts: 2,497
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeusizme
I do agree that the FAL market is a niche market and that is our problem with getting great barrels instead of good barrels...
If you want a great FAL barrel, look for one that an Austrian Steyr. They are about the best and aren't chrome lined.

While 500 rounds a year comes out to 5000 rounds over ten years, it's not enough shooting to worry about wearing out a non-lined steel barrel. If a chrome lined barrel is needed, I believe some Argy barrels came that way.

In all the decades I've been shooting, I have never owned any rifles with a chrome lined barrel. No matter all the thousands of rounds sent downrange, I've yet needed to replace a barrel that wasn't worn before I got it. I've got a South African barrel on one FAL that has had who knows how many rounds through it in it's previous life and it still shoots good.

If you want a chromelined barrel, fine. I don't think it's needed for good barrel life. If you know you're going to shoot a FAL enough to wear out a barrel, buy two or three spares, a set of Rattas barrel wrenches and have at it. Keep a record of shots it took to wear out your barrel, come back and brag about it. Chrome lining has it's place, but don't let it's absence keep you from shooting.
__________________
I should have followed my childhood dream of becoming a Mad Storyteller
MistWolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 29, 2011, 20:09   #22
4markk
Military Observer
Silver Contributor
 
4markk's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 31134
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 3,200
Want a great bore coating? Contact Johnathon at Shooters Solution for his Moly-Fusion .........

http://www.shootersolutions.com/molyfusion1.html

I have it in three of my rifles and going to use it on my latest L1A1.

I have it in my 06 bolt action and was shooting some sabots I loaded up a few years back. They worked fine before, but now I'm getting target spatter at 100yds with them after the Molly. No pressure signs on the primers, so the loads are safe. But looks like I need to back off the load a bit to use them in this treated barrel. This stuff definitely changed the barrel dynamics. One of these days I'll haul the chrono out to see what these things are doing at the muzzle.

In any case, contact Johnathon. Great guy. Great Stuff.
__________________
`
`
The difference between the possible and the impossible is only in the degree of a man's will. Chinese Proverb

“The worst thing about growing old is that other men stop seeing you as dangerous.” Act Of Valor

"A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends." Socrates
4markk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29, 2011, 22:36   #23
Olaf
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 63894
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 863
Quote:
Originally posted by palmettomoon


If you run across any of those cheap crap FMAP Argentine barrels, rifles, or receivers, hook a slumming brother up... I like cheap 3rd world crap.
Me too, argentine had something over most 3rd world countries.... the flow of germans (great weapons makers them germans) in the late 40's, who probly taught a thing or to to the natives I hear they had a pretty decent guy in terms of defense there for a while too (in tactics not his beliefs)
Olaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30, 2011, 13:02   #24
gunnut1
Moderator
Gold Contributor
 
gunnut1's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1877
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The great Republic of Texas USA!!!!!
Posts: 10,655
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeusizme
Your right DSA doesn't make any chrome lined barrels. Chrome lining does reduce accuracy but saves the bore from harm while shooting harsh ammo like corrosive and tracers. I just feel that if they aren’t good enough for military service than why should we civilians have to skimp. As for questionable foreign made barrels I just have a hard time trusting what comes out of 3rd world countries even if they have a FN license to produce the product. I just don't think that the QC is as good as what it would be coming from an industrialized country. Case in point, look at China, they have come a long way but they are still years behind the industrialized countries of the world in the ability to manufacture finer items like scopes. There is a scope manufacture here in the US that has all the parts made stateside and then shipped to china for assembly because they don't have the machining technology to make them from scratch there and be the quality that is desired.
Unlined barrels have been used in the military for years. Until the AK, I don't think that the Russians chromes their barrels. Yougoslavia did not chrome the barrels of the SKS or AKs. The United States didn't chrome barrels until the M16 was fielded. And don't tell me that is was Stoner's fault. It was not.

Billions of rounds of corrosive ammo have been shot in unlined barrels with no harm.

Chrome lining does not affect accuracy. Ot is it does, it is such a small amount that it is not worrying about.

If you clean your gun properly after shooting corrosive you will be fine. I shoot corrosive in my 91/30 and my SVT 40 and I have no problems bedcause I clean as soon as I can after the range trip. Tracers should not be a problem bedause unless you are lucky, no one will allow them on their range.

The only advantage I can see with chrome lining is that it is easier to clean.
__________________
Texas, it's a state of mind!!!!

The human race is not the pinnacle of evolution. We are but one evolutionary out come.

Last edited by gunnut1; September 30, 2011 at 13:24.
gunnut1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 30, 2011, 13:41   #25
Chopper Greg
Registered
 
Chopper Greg's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 64278
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally posted by 4markk
Want a great bore coating? Contact Johnathon at Shooters Solution for his Moly-Fusion .........

http://www.shootersolutions.com/molyfusion1.html

I have it in three of my rifles and going to use it on my latest L1A1.

I have it in my 06 bolt action and was shooting some sabots I loaded up a few years back. They worked fine before, but now I'm getting target spatter at 100yds with them after the Molly. No pressure signs on the primers, so the loads are safe. But looks like I need to back off the load a bit to use them in this treated barrel. This stuff definitely changed the barrel dynamics. One of these days I'll haul the chrono out to see what these things are doing at the muzzle.

In any case, contact Johnathon. Great guy. Great Stuff.
Interesting looking stuff - OTOH, I am a little spooked by something that has "miracle" implied all over the place, when little information about the actual science behind how it works or is supposed to be used. I know how parkerizing, nitriding, and chroming works - I also know their limitations, and that is what bothers me about this stuff, the way it's written, it sounds as if it has no limitations.
Chopper Greg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30, 2011, 14:03   #26
BC
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 752
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: cc
Posts: 2,851
Quote:
Originally posted by Chopper Greg
Interesting looking stuff - OTOH, I am a little spooked by something that has "miracle" implied all over the place, when little information about the actual science behind how it works or is supposed to be used. I know how parkerizing, nitriding, and chroming works - I also know their limitations, and that is what bothers me about this stuff, the way it's written, it sounds as if it has no limitations.
It's the Snake Oil for your barrel.
BC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 30, 2011, 14:06   #27
BC
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 752
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: cc
Posts: 2,851
Quote:
Originally posted by gunnut1


Unlined barrels have been used in the military for years.
Once you go bl--k, you won't go back.
BC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 30, 2011, 22:03   #28
4markk
Military Observer
Silver Contributor
 
4markk's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 31134
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 3,200
Quote:
Originally posted by Chopper Greg
Interesting looking stuff - OTOH, I am a little spooked by something that has "miracle" implied all over the place, when little information about the actual science behind how it works or is supposed to be used. I know how parkerizing, nitriding, and chroming works - I also know their limitations, and that is what bothers me about this stuff, the way it's written, it sounds as if it has no limitations.
No great mystery or magic, its close to a form of parkerizing using a different metal. Simple. Instead of magnesium it is using Molybdenum (which is between chromium and tungsten). I doubt Johnathon will give you his trade secret, but his products are first class. As his many warning state this requires care in its use as friction on some parts are necessary for the safe operation of most firearms.

I understand this is not for everyone, but it offers protection and performance, as well as a tough alternative for those that want a coating.
__________________
`
`
The difference between the possible and the impossible is only in the degree of a man's will. Chinese Proverb

“The worst thing about growing old is that other men stop seeing you as dangerous.” Act Of Valor

"A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends." Socrates
4markk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2012 The FAL Files