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Old December 25, 2009, 13:42   #1
MikeF
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Any comments on DAG ammo?

I see that ammoman is selling DAK.7.62x51 ammo, 1000 round case $499 including shipping.

"Full metal jacket boattail bullet. Brass-cased, berdan-primed and non-reloadable. Non-corrosive. DAG headstamp (Dynamit Nobel) 1990's production. - Comes 20 rds. per box. 200 rds. per battlepack. 1,000 rds. per case (5 battlepacks)."

Not a great price, but cheaper than I have seen in the marketplace recently. Is this the same stuff which was reported to have tarnished cases?

http://www.ammoman.com/index.htm

The best price I have seen recently has been the S&B corrosive the ammunitiontogo has for ~ .39 per round shipped, but I have heard mixed reviews about it.

- Mike
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Old December 25, 2009, 14:04   #2
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I have never shot any DAG but I have seen it at gunshows. The only problem I have heard or seen is its corroded some I saw looked really bad, but I have read where others shoot it with no problems.
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Old December 25, 2009, 15:57   #3
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I have some DAG from the early 60's packed in cardboard. It's somewhat corroded on the brass. It shoots OK. That stuff is new so I'd have no reservations.
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Old December 25, 2009, 23:27   #4
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Not quite a year ago, I purchased some DAG 147 grain ammo from the same vendor as the link in the first post, (I think). It was loose ammo in an ammo can, not in boxes, and appeared to have been previously stored in links. The advertisement said the ammunition was corroded, but fired fine. There were some pictures of the cartridges, and the photos showed the brass cases corroded. I purchased it anyway knowing this, and when it arrived it was every bit as corroded as the photos.

The markings on the bottom read "DAG93B0310" and have the NATO cross in a circle.

I cleaned each cartridge with red scotch bright and a little 3in1 oil, then wiped the cartridges clean. All 500 of them.

Each cartridge was visually inspected for suitability and around a dozen were set aside as suspect due to the corrosion on the case possibly weakening the case. So, the ones that looked safe, but suspicious, were fired first individually, so I would definitely remember to wear my safety glasses and keep my free hand away from the magazine. A few I did not fire as they did not look safe.

As it turned out, I am lucky the suspicious ones did not result in a kaboom, but they shot fine. To show you how lucky, see the photos below. The one on the right burned through the corrosion on the case when fired. The second from the right looks like it might do the same if it was fired. The one on the far left is the scarriest of all. It looks it has the most potential for a case seperation upon firing.

I pulled a round to look at it and it weighed 146.6grains and was charged with 44.4 grains of what appeared to be ball powder. The primer has a green polymer sealant and the bullet had a black tar sealant between it and the case.

The rounds that I did fire shot around 3moa. This was at 200yds with a 4X scope, from a Steady Point brand bench rest shooting 5 round groups from the magazine. At 200yds the groups were around 6inches to 6.5inches, at 100yds the groups were from 2.6inches to 3inches. I did shoot a single 5 round group at 500yards and it was 9.5inches in diameter, (so less than 2moa), but I believe this to be nontypical. For reference, on that same day the group size was just under 2moa using federal gold medal match 168grn hpbt. The DAG and other NATO rounds' Point Of Impact is about 7moa higher than the 168hpbt out to around 350yds. From 350yds to 500yds the DAG POI is about 4or5moa higher than the 168hpbt.


DAG147 cartridges, unfired and fired
[IMG]DAG147_Cartridges[/IMG]


DAG147 44.4grains ball powder
[IMG]DAG147_Powder[/IMG]

DAG147 200yards 6.5inch group
[IMG]DAG147_200YDS[/IMG]
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Old December 26, 2009, 09:30   #5
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wow!

Thanks, Man!
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Old December 26, 2009, 11:31   #6
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Newton -

That gives me a good incentive to check any corroded ammo carefully! Glad it worked out for you, but that's a fair bit or work to go through.

It sounds like they were pretty clear about the condtion of the cases in their ad, which is good.

The ammoman site has quite a few pictures of their current offering, which shows this batch to be 20 rd boxes in sealed battlepacks, so it is probably in better shape.

http://www.ammoman.com/images5/resiz...-DMNOBLE-3.jpg

The lot number on a box in one of the pictures is similar to the one you mentioned -

http://www.ammoman.com/images5/resiz...-DMNOBLE-6.jpg

Of course you never know until you cut into the plastic, and I hate to do that until I'm ready to use it. But that's always a risk with surplus.
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Old December 26, 2009, 11:52   #7
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I had some older DAG ( I don't recall the headstamp but might have it on file ) that had a few weak rounds. No squibs, they all cleared the barrel but either FTE'd or jammed the fired case back into the chamber. I was always concerned about a squib and consequent barrel blockege, so the ammo was carefully used up early on as I didn't feel that batch could be trusted. Other headstamp dates seemed fine, however, so it is probable one particular batch had been stored under less than ideal conditions.
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Old December 26, 2009, 11:58   #8
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IIRC the DAG that was corroded and offered by Wideners and a few other retailers was ugly do to something it's original packaging. That's why only 40%ish of the rounds were lesser condition. Only the rounds that came in contact with the problematic packaging were corroded.

The Ammoman offering looks to be a different ballgame. Not that I wouldn't be cutting 1 open to be certain. No point in paying full price and getting 2nd quality. If the ammoman DAG has issues it won't take long for word to spread.
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Old December 26, 2009, 14:14   #9
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didn't the DAG also have a pretty impressive fragmentation on impact?
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Old December 26, 2009, 16:21   #10
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Yep and so does MEN.
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Old December 26, 2009, 16:54   #11
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The corrosion was supposed to be from acid used in the paper the boxes were made from. I picked up 1K of this last year and had about 35% corroded cases. All shot fine after I cleaned them up. I thought the accuracy was pretty good for surplus.
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Old December 26, 2009, 17:01   #12
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I got my first case from Ammoman a couple of weeks ago. They cut one of the battlepacks open to check the rounds, I guess as a standard practice after the last of their Port battlepacks was reportedly tarnished badly. This stuff (DAG93A0300 '93) is nice and shiny bright.
The packs smell mildewy and some are cracked like the plastic went brittle, but the ammo itself is perfect.
More enroute as we speak. Not the greatest price, but considering the times we live in, if you're not a reloader, this is the best bet out there....

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Old December 26, 2009, 17:31   #13
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Got 500rds in an ammo can from SG last year. Over 100 of those I put aside due to the funk. The rest cleaned up and has been performing very well.I actually get pretty good accuracy out of them.The corrosion was simular to the pictures newton3407 provided us with,(thanks newton!).It is nice stuff...I just think it was poorly stored.
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Old December 26, 2009, 19:56   #14
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I don't believe the corroded ammo is from the 1990s. You might be comparing apples and oranges.
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Old December 26, 2009, 20:07   #15
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The stuff I got from SG is all headstamped "DAG93GO368".if that helps.
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Old December 27, 2009, 11:09   #16
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I have had good luck with the "older" DAG.......shoots tighter than new WCC,POF,Injun and most LC. It's about the same in consistency as SA or F4.....2 MOA in my bolt gun. I haven't shot more than 100 rounds of it but got no fliers or squibish rounds.

Scott: The DAG does frag upon impact due to a somewhat brittle bi metal jacket and the canular groove being unusually deep. The Germans did this undoubtedly to get around the Hague Convention.

"The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, prohibits the use in warfare of bullets that easily expand or flatten in the body.[3] This is often incorrectly believed to be prohibited in the Geneva Conventions, but it significantly predates those conventions, and is in fact a continuance of the St. Petersburg Declaration of 1868, which banned exploding projectiles of less than 400 grams, as well as weapons designed to aggravate injured soldiers or make their death inevitable. NATO members do not use small arms ammunition that is prohibited by the Hague Convention."






MY DAG THREAD
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Old December 27, 2009, 18:14   #17
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Quote:
I don't believe the corroded ammo is from the 1990s. You might be comparing apples and oranges.
I had 1K of 1993 DAG, 5 sealed battlepacks. Each battlepack had 35% - 40% of the ammo with minor to major corrosion on the cases.

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Old December 29, 2009, 20:28   #18
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Out of curiosity I sent a question to Eric at Ammoman, asking about tarnish on their current stock of DAG, and also whether they would be able to get any more Lithuanian (It's still listed on his site as not currently available).

Here's his reply -

We can't get any of the Lithuanian for now but the DAG ammo looks like the day it was made and we test fired it ourselves.
CLEAN AS CAN BE SO MAKE SURE TO PUT SUNGLASSES ON
Thanks
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Old December 30, 2009, 17:45   #19
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FWIW, I have been reloading a little DAG once in a while. Until I broke the pin on my decapper that is.

DAG brass is noticeably of a harder alloy than any other I have processed. Also, those three point primer crimps are an invention of the debbil his own self. Only way I have come up with is to carve it out with a box knife. THAT is a slow, tedious (and hazardous) operation.

I have a box set aside that has been reloaded twice. Makes it fired three times now. I hasn't grown enough to need trimmed and it has not split (yet). Chances are, this is as far as it will get. I might load a few of that 20, just to see if it tries to split on me. Working up m nerve on that.


Pretty stuff with the silver zombie bullets though.
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Old December 31, 2009, 16:38   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by owlcreekok
[Only way I have come up with is to carve it out with a box knife. THAT is a slow, tedious (and hazardous) operation.
I use a drill bit either held in hand or chucked into the press, just a touch will do.
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Old December 31, 2009, 16:55   #21
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Originally posted by LVMPDawg


I use a drill bit either held in hand or chucked into the press, just a touch will do.
You grind the bit so the point doesn't hit the anvil then ?
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