The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Weapons Discussion > Ammunition

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old August 20, 2001, 12:50   #1
Gun Slinging Redneck
Banned
 
FALaholic #: 3878
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 22
Israeli Ammo

Hey, I saw some Israeli ammunition at www.southernammo.com and I was wondering if it is any good. And if anyone has purchased the slighly dented and the tarnished stuff before. And how well it fires. Any help is appreciated.
Gun Slinging Redneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20, 2001, 13:12   #2
Offctr
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 3326
Join Date: May 2001
Location: PA
Posts: 1,230
My friend and I split 1000 rounds and I took 500 down to the MD falfest last mont with the exception of 2 rounds all fired good.and oone of those was an FN headstamp Bob's 500 went the same. I put alot of it through my HK becuase the fluted chamber distroys the brass
and I try to save the good stuff ( Hirt) for eventual reloading. Its not match grade stuff but will go bang when you pull the trigger.
There have been a few threads on acid dipped or tumbled ammo (?) but you will have to make your own determination there.
__________________
The 2nd Ammendment -The Original "Homeland Security" Act !
Offctr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20, 2001, 13:23   #3
Gun Slinging Redneck
Banned
 
FALaholic #: 3878
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 22
Ok thanx alot for the help.
Gun Slinging Redneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20, 2001, 14:13   #4
timbo40
Registered
 
timbo40's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1127
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Georgia
Posts: 182
There has been some reports of split cases, and the resulting problems associated with it. Seems it is the TZ and Israeli marked in hebrew letters similar in appearance to the lettes KU. I had two cases split just this past Saturday, while shooting an Israeli K98 Mauser converted to 7.62x51. Scared the crap out of me to see those splits afterwards.
Do a search here for other threads discuusing this. Seems most of the problems with the defective ammo has been sourced back to Southern Ammo in South Carolina. That is where I got mine. Really don't save a lot of money if you have to throw out defective ammo, or even worse, get injured.
Let the buyer beware!
Timbo40
__________________
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
Patrick Henry 1765
timbo40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20, 2001, 14:16   #5
Gun Slinging Redneck
Banned
 
FALaholic #: 3878
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 22
Timbo thanx for the caution, I'll have second thoughts about it now.
Gun Slinging Redneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20, 2001, 21:21   #6
EOE
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 1513
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Posts: 10
Buyer beware.
As has been posted before..watch out for TZ80. While most of it goes bang, some of it does quite a bit more than that, like destroy magazines. While rifle parts may be replaced body parts are another story.
EOE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20, 2001, 22:05   #7
Uncle Buck
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 678
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 363
Watch out for all the Israeli ammo in this lot, not just TZ80. Some of the case heads split. The ones shown are KU69, KU72, TZ77 and TZ71. Who need this kind of excitement?
Uncle Buck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20, 2001, 22:16   #8
W.E.G.
FAL Files Administrator
Silver Contributor
 
W.E.G.'s Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 1211
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Virginia
Posts: 34,244
Hey Uncle Buck!

Tell us more about the circumstances of those case failures.
__________________
.
.
.

Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.
W.E.G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20, 2001, 22:21   #9
Grinder
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 3407
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: PA.
Posts: 691
I think in the loose packed stuff, ANY round could be a problem. I have factory sealed cans of 8-80 TZ which is proving to be very consistant and accurate. Today I shot a 5 shot 1 1/2" group at 100 yds. off a bench (open sights) while sighting in my new built IMBEL/STG. NO case burn throughs or other problems. A few did case mic a little undersized, but shoot great. ANY ammo not in original factory packaging is questionable!

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Grinder ]
Grinder is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2001, 10:07   #10
Uncle Buck
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 678
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 363
The ones shown just happened in normal shooting of about 200 rounds, so I got about 1 split in 50 rounds. The one on the left blew out the mag and cracked my extractor, so I stopped. When I looked through the brass, I found the other three splits, which I probably wouldn't have noticed otherwise. BTW, I also had minor case splits with the new in the box TZ80 ammo that looked beautiful. It is not the same lot, but it has the same problem.
Uncle Buck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2001, 11:05   #11
xIA
Registered
 
xIA's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 729
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Brazil, IN USA
Posts: 1,127
Guys, ANY loose packed "surplus" ammo is "range pick-up" stuff.
And some unscrupulous folks tumble it (loaded) to boot, with the resulting ballistic problems.
Gotta ask yourself if it's worth it for a few pennies when there's plenty of good stuff around for precious little more...
__________________
Dave Williams (The Artist formerly known as Inland Armory)
NRA Life Member


Until the meek actually do inherit the earth, I wish they'd stay the hell out of my way.
xIA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2001, 11:13   #12
Gun Slinging Redneck
Banned
 
FALaholic #: 3878
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 22
Ok thanx for the help, so Southern Ammo is not very good from what i've been hearing?
Gun Slinging Redneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2001, 11:47   #13
Offctr
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 3326
Join Date: May 2001
Location: PA
Posts: 1,230
I am stillnot 100% on this stuff I am goiing to shoot up the other 500 Ive gotten and see what the deal is -- at least if I keep better track of it this time maybe I can help pinpoint the trend etc. I just have not had a problem thus far maybe I am just lucky to this point ..... Who knows --for now If I needed another 1K I'd call southern agian.
Id like to see more info like Jeter said --you know headspace --possible firing out of battery problems -slightly long or out of spec rounds maybe ? If this is happening this often (1 out of 50 ) more people must have failures to report if it has only happened to a few overall there must be some identifiable condition causing it wether its the ammo or something else, The tumbling issue was already looked at in another thread and seems unlikly so what else could it be ? primers, powder, case, sizing , must be some sort of trend --right ?
__________________
The 2nd Ammendment -The Original "Homeland Security" Act !
Offctr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2001, 16:44   #14
BUFF
Registered
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 789
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 7,293
Dave at Inland Armory says "ANY loose packed "surplus" ammo is "range pickup stuff." "

Not true.

Much of it is de-linked belted machine gun ammo.

I would be wary of ammo with mixed headstamps in the same boxes or ammo cans, though.
__________________
BUFF
BUFF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2001, 18:19   #15
xIA
Registered
 
xIA's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 729
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Brazil, IN USA
Posts: 1,127
Ya' know, that's possible, but I've never seen any that had evidence of being de-linked, nor would I expect that they would put the labor into de-linking it. I've seen them selling it off w/ the tracers removed and the rest of the links intact, though...

Just my $.02
__________________
Dave Williams (The Artist formerly known as Inland Armory)
NRA Life Member


Until the meek actually do inherit the earth, I wish they'd stay the hell out of my way.
xIA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2001, 19:17   #16
BUFF
Registered
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 789
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 7,293
I've got a nice pile of DAG in ammo cans in the basement that I bought from Century in 250 round cans this spring. You can see from the marks on the brass cases that it is delinked. All of the ammo in each can was headstamped the same, but I got 3 different headstamps altogether in the ammo I bought.
__________________
BUFF
BUFF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2001, 19:44   #17
Sand Pirate
Registered
 
Sand Pirate's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 3899
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Harpers Ferry, WV
Posts: 1,364
Hey Redneck-(Not often you can say that without getting your teeth knocked out)

Don't give up on these guys yet. I bought 3k of the pinged some time ago, shot about 1k so far. No problems whatsoever. Shooting in a DS Arms STG-58. I did sort the stuff by headstamp, had no TZ80 in there at all. 50% TZ, 50% KU, and a smattering of FN with the NATO cross.

Everything goes bang, feeds and ejects. Accuracy is fine for me (I'm no rifleman YET). I save all my brass, know what a case looks like when it ain't right. All my brass is fine. Have reloaded some of the boxer stuff, but haven't shot it yet.

I'll admit I'm watching my ammo a little closer after reading some of posts here, 'cause a lot of these guys know their stuff. But I wouldn't shy away from Southern Ammo at all.

If I get to 2k rounds fired with no problems, I'm gonna order another 3k.
__________________
Ask the Indians if Immigration is important!
Sand Pirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 21, 2001, 21:58   #18
Gun Slinging Redneck
Banned
 
FALaholic #: 3878
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 22
Ok thanx sand pirate. How much did the 3k cost?
Gun Slinging Redneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22, 2001, 06:23   #19
xIA
Registered
 
xIA's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 729
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Brazil, IN USA
Posts: 1,127
Quote:
Originally posted by BUFF:
I've got a nice pile of DAG in ammo cans in the basement that I bought from Century in 250 round cans this spring. You can see from the marks on the brass cases that it is delinked. All of the ammo in each can was headstamped the same, but I got 3 different headstamps altogether in the ammo I bought.
Cool.
I learned something today.
That makes it a good day!
__________________
Dave Williams (The Artist formerly known as Inland Armory)
NRA Life Member


Until the meek actually do inherit the earth, I wish they'd stay the hell out of my way.
xIA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22, 2001, 08:53   #20
BrenLover
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 507
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Olean, NY, USA
Posts: 289
I have had the same problems with some iZZY 5.56. I've had two major case splits in about 2K rounds shooting it in my ARs. Most have very good. My ammo was loose packed mixed stamps and NOT from Summit.
BrenLover
__________________
My inner child is a mean little shit...
BrenLover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22, 2001, 09:30   #21
IronHands
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 3230
Join Date: May 2001
Location: IN,U.S.
Posts: 281
I have a liitle less than 500 rds. of TZ 80 that I bought from AIM a few years ago,not one problem.However, because what others have said I won't shoot any through my beloved AR-10,I only shoot it in my HK-91 because it's like a Timex.

The few times I did shoot it through the AR-10A2 it producede groups right at an inch,but the 10 is almost a tack driver.
__________________
AR-10 NUT!
IronHands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22, 2001, 12:04   #22
Sand Pirate
Registered
 
Sand Pirate's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 3899
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Harpers Ferry, WV
Posts: 1,364
Redneck- I'm just up the road from them here in South Carolina, so shipping wasn't much. Total was $268. Ordered on Monday, received it on Tuesday by noon. I've got six new ammo cans to boot. Great customer service on the phone, too.

I've made up my mind on the tumbling issue, I think the facts jive with my intuition: No problem. I'm gonna poke around on the acid dip issue and find some hard facts, but I'm still real comfortable
__________________
Ask the Indians if Immigration is important!
Sand Pirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22, 2001, 20:41   #23
Grinder
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 3407
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: PA.
Posts: 691
IronHands,
That is where I bought mine. Is your's marked 8-80 on the cans?
Grinder is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 22, 2001, 21:41   #24
IronHands
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 3230
Join Date: May 2001
Location: IN,U.S.
Posts: 281
Grinder,it sure is.
__________________
AR-10 NUT!
IronHands is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2012 The FAL Files