"illegal" Aussie keychain pistol

**W.E.G.** · November 21, 2003, 20:31

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...674432934.html

vmtz · November 21, 2003, 20:51

Great for when you just gotta take someone out.

Vince

**Ricketts** · November 21, 2003, 21:07

Group Buy???? What are they gonna do with them?? It's COOL!!

frick · November 21, 2003, 21:35

I guess if you cant buy one legally..........................

At least some aussies still have balls.

**W.E.G.** · November 21, 2003, 21:35

Something like this in 9mm and RE-USABLE would be very cool.

Chipmunk · November 21, 2003, 21:46

Looking at the shape & size of that piece, I
don't think I want it in anything more than
a .22mag.ymmv
Chipmunk

milhol · November 21, 2003, 21:58

Just goes to show what happens when you ban something.

Goes underground and proliferates.

Gremper · November 21, 2003, 22:03

If the Aussie Government had any sense they would issue them to the entire country. With a population of around 20 Million, and lots of open space (even though much of it is barren), they are around 1000 miles from Indonesia with a population of well over 200 Million and a shortage of land. They should be producing L1A1s as fast as they can turn them out and BUYING surplus 7.62 NATO instead of selling it. Don't get me wrong. I have the highest respect for the Aussies and their Armed Forces having drank their beer, shared their companionship and carried their wounded. Its just that their politicians make Chuckie Schumer and Dianne Fienstein look like hardcore conservatives!

Chip · November 21, 2003, 22:33

I got an NRA/ILA update on these and they said they were selling for 1500.00 on the street. That's a pretty expensive throw away gun.

Oregon-Jet · November 21, 2003, 22:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Chip
I got an NRA/ILA update on these and they said they were selling for 1500.00 on the street. That's a pretty expensive throw away gun.

WOW

tim02 · November 22, 2003, 01:48

machining such a thing should be no problem for craftsmen.
I would make it for .32/.38 rimmed cartridges.

tim

19kilo · November 22, 2003, 02:02

is that $1500 in US Dollars or Aussie? My guess is that figure is in AUS. which would convert to about $13 US dollars...just kidding, actual currency conversion rates would be:
$1500 USD = $2075 AUD
OR
$1500 AUD = $1,080 USD

still it would be cheaper to make your own Sten.
KILO OUT

Rifleman44 · November 22, 2003, 10:40

They could be made and sold here as an "Any Other Weapon" requiring registration and a $5 transfer tax.

VALMET_M76 · November 22, 2003, 10:56

I want one in 44 mag!

Mike

panchop · November 22, 2003, 14:48

i don't think i'd want one of those in my pocket loaded.

**Andy the Aussie** · November 22, 2003, 16:58

I have hanlded more than one of these and I have to say that I would not want to fire one...!!! They are being maufactured and sode through organised crime networks down here and keep showing up at various murders and gang related shootings. It is this kind of activity that has given the Govt. here the drive and public support for the extreme change in handgun laws being enacted now. The figures for such never reflect if the weapon was legally held prior to the crime or if it was something such as these. Trust me...they are not being marketed to the sportsman or honest souls. Those making them (some of whom are residing in the "Grey Bar Hotel") are known criminals and devised these to help arm their scumbag buddies.

Andy

cadillac · November 22, 2003, 17:14

If those were issued to the women of OZ, the frequency of gang-rape might be reduced.

**Andy the Aussie** · November 22, 2003, 17:37

Caddy I agree with your point....howver most have shown up with the perpertrators of the rapes not the victims...

This is a sore point with me I guess....

gunnut1 · November 22, 2003, 21:02

But Andy, I thought the Aussie gobment banned just aboput anything that went bang! How can these be on the street? Aren't they banned? Don't the criminals abide by the ban on firearms in Australia? Damn mate, funny how that works! Do the Aussie politicians have any idea of what is going on in the streets or are they like our gobment and do the kneejek dance on gun control?

milhol · November 22, 2003, 21:02

Whilst I agree with your sentiments Cadillac, most of us need the will to employ the tools at our disposal. Most people do not have the mindset to use weapons.

When I was in Africa, a British tourist was gang raped and her boyfriend murdered. During the deed the boyfriend told his girlfriend to hit the ringleader over the head with a bottle, which she did. But she didn't do it hard enough because she didn't want to hurt him. And that is how they ended up where they were.

It's a sad but potent example of what can happen if you don't have the will.

It's also why I'm a advocate of pepper spray, people are more inclined to employ something non lethal like OC spray over lethal means such as firearms.

Not that it matters in Australia because pepper spray is also illegal.

It's a fun place to live in fear.

**Andy the Aussie** · November 22, 2003, 21:12

Yes these and many other such weapons are illegal...always have been and will remain so. The Govt can't (because that is not part of their policy) see that the legally held firearms in the country are not the problem. They are bound on a course of making firearm ownership not possible out here no doubt. I surely do not agree with that one little bit. I do however sleep a little better at night knowing that the 735 of these are no longer in circulation. To put it into context of how it MAY be viewed in the US......think about a group of bloods or crips or (insert you fav gang here) setting up a shop to manufacture a cheap Tec 9 or Mac, (media love to grab hold of such names) and then to sel them only to their gang buddies for their gang purposes (I am guessing they are not shooting IPSC or even legitimate CCW). When they start showing up (with bodies attached) think about the publicity hat gives your RKBA movements. Hence my joy to see the flith behind such things inside.

Milhol is so very right when he talks of our (society) willingness to be victims....fight back and fightback hard....it is what separtes prey from the predators. If you are too hard a target they tend to skulk back to the sewer that they crawled out of till something that will lay down and die comes along.

Time to climb off my soap box and go fix my fish pond.

Andy

Gremper · November 22, 2003, 22:35

Andy
I remember your country with affection. I had a great time in WA in the 80's. I also had a lot of fun with some of your mates in '68-69. Your Canberra pilots were damn accurate! I also remember (slightly) some parties in Vung Tau! Unfortunately too damn many of our politicians are trying to follow the example yours have set. I always remember the origin of the word "politics". "Poli" is from the Greek word for many. Ticks are small bloodsuckers.

milhol · November 22, 2003, 23:50

Well said that man!!

**Andy the Aussie** · November 23, 2003, 00:31

Gremper you are spot bloody on...this is still a great country with great people...(cept of course for that Rat Bag milhol) but the pollies have screwed it right up.....seems to be a common theme through out the world...!!!

All the best.

Andy

milhol · November 23, 2003, 00:44

Rat bag?????

It's an X-box thing isn't it? Rematch?

Pepper spray used to be legal but some bright spark thought that it could be taken of you and used against you.

When it was legal some poor kid was being hassled for his Nikes by a bigger kid so he sprayed him. A cop was passing and witnessed the entire event and arrested the sprayer for using an offensive weapon in public. The mugger got let off with a warning. Is it just me or do we have a serious problem with right and wrong here?

redmenace · November 23, 2003, 05:01

It sounds almost like these things could be considered muzzle loaders (or could be made as such) And would not only be legal but not even considered firearms in the states correct?

gunseller · November 23, 2003, 08:39

And while we are on the subject, did I say subject? That is what some people would like the rest of us to be, subjects. What is the old saying, "The differance between a subject and a free man is a firearm." Or something like that. You are right in that the hardest part of self defense is doing it not talking about it. Which reminds me of another old saying," It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."
Gunseller

Derby FALs · November 23, 2003, 09:10

I'll take six, please...

gunnut1 · November 23, 2003, 22:32

Quote:

It sounds almost like these things could be considered muzzle loaders (or could be made as such) And would not only be legal but not even considered firearms in the states correct?

Yes and no. Muzzle loaders are legal and not regulated by the BATFE. There are limits on the size of pistols but I do not know what they are. I would think that this one would be under the size limit for a pistol. But then they are marketing a pin gun now that is legal. Hard to say.

pogue warrior · November 23, 2003, 23:28

This was one of Ron Owens last creations called the TC10 Owen mini gun, took a 32rd mag and sold as a parts kit.
Gotta give credit, the guy never gave up! But his rorting of the deactivation laws by using Qld soft deact laws to import thousands of chinese pistols, do the basic deact then sell including parts and instructions to get them back into working order, were part of the reasons for the current dramas.

November 21, 2003, 20:31	#1
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,108	"illegal" Aussie keychain pistol http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...674432934.html __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

November 21, 2003, 21:07	#3
Ricketts Old Fart Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 3418 Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 7,036	Group Buy???? What are they gonna do with them?? It's COOL!! __________________ "You should have come with a warning label." My daughters boyfriend to her!!

November 21, 2003, 21:35	#5
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,108	Something like this in 9mm and RE-USABLE would be very cool. __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

November 21, 2003, 21:46	#6
Chipmunk Registered FALaholic #: 213 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Richmond,Va. CSA Posts: 693	Looking at the shape & size of that piece, I don't think I want it in anything more than a .22mag.ymmv Chipmunk __________________ You don't stop laughing because you grow old; You grow old because you stopped laughing.

November 21, 2003, 21:58	#7
milhol Registered FALaholic #: 4692 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: South Australia Posts: 356	Just goes to show what happens when you ban something. Goes underground and proliferates. __________________ www.australianguerrilla.com www.mysheaths.com

November 21, 2003, 20:51	#2
vmtz FALaholic #: 1125 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Here right now Posts: 17,641	Great for when you just gotta take someone out. Vince

November 21, 2003, 21:35	#4
frick Registered FALaholic #: 12456 Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 21	I guess if you cant buy one legally.......................... At least some aussies still have balls.

November 21, 2003, 22:03	#8
Gremper Registered FALaholic #: 8848 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 1,024	If the Aussie Government had any sense they would issue them to the entire country. With a population of around 20 Million, and lots of open space (even though much of it is barren), they are around 1000 miles from Indonesia with a population of well over 200 Million and a shortage of land. They should be producing L1A1s as fast as they can turn them out and BUYING surplus 7.62 NATO instead of selling it. Don't get me wrong. I have the highest respect for the Aussies and their Armed Forces having drank their beer, shared their companionship and carried their wounded. Its just that their politicians make Chuckie Schumer and Dianne Fienstein look like hardcore conservatives! __________________ Four boxes guarantee our freedom: They are the Soap Box; the Ballot Box; the Jury Box; and the Cartridge Box. To be Born Free is Luck. To Live Free is a Privilege. To Die Free is a Responsibility British by birth, American by choice! ROMAD, USAF Msgt (ret), Life Member NRA . Member AGA, GOA, LEAA, JPFO. CCRKBA

November 21, 2003, 22:33	#9
Chip Registered FALaholic #: 4508 Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Idaho Posts: 1,354	I got an NRA/ILA update on these and they said they were selling for 1500.00 on the street. That's a pretty expensive throw away gun. __________________ Liberals-- a form of mental disease

November 22, 2003, 01:48	#11
tim02 Registered FALaholic #: 5294 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kymi, Finland Posts: 671	machining such a thing should be no problem for craftsmen. I would make it for .32/.38 rimmed cartridges. tim

November 22, 2003, 02:02	#12
19kilo Registered FALaholic #: 4778 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: some socialist subzero hell Posts: 1,191	is that $1500 in US Dollars or Aussie? My guess is that figure is in AUS. which would convert to about $13 US dollars...just kidding, actual currency conversion rates would be: $1500 USD = $2075 AUD OR $1500 AUD = $1,080 USD still it would be cheaper to make your own Sten. KILO OUT __________________ "Saddle Up...Tonight We Ride!"

November 22, 2003, 10:40	#13
Rifleman44 Registered FALaholic #: 3803 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Austin, Texas 78730 Posts: 427	They could be made and sold here as an "Any Other Weapon" requiring registration and a $5 transfer tax.

November 22, 2003, 10:56	#14
VALMET_M76 Banned (Temp) FALaholic #: 8040 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: TEXAS Posts: 614	I want one in 44 mag! Mike

November 22, 2003, 14:48	#15
panchop Registered FALaholic #: 1751 Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: phx Posts: 1,442	i don't think i'd want one of those in my pocket loaded.

November 22, 2003, 16:58	#16
Andy the Aussie Dinosaur Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 216 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Down Under Posts: 12,754	I have hanlded more than one of these and I have to say that I would not want to fire one...!!! They are being maufactured and sode through organised crime networks down here and keep showing up at various murders and gang related shootings. It is this kind of activity that has given the Govt. here the drive and public support for the extreme change in handgun laws being enacted now. The figures for such never reflect if the weapon was legally held prior to the crime or if it was something such as these. Trust me...they are not being marketed to the sportsman or honest souls. Those making them (some of whom are residing in the "Grey Bar Hotel") are known criminals and devised these to help arm their scumbag buddies. Andy

November 22, 2003, 17:14	#17
cadillac Registered FALaholic #: 3235 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Lincoln County, MT Posts: 3,495	If those were issued to the women of OZ, the frequency of gang-rape might be reduced. __________________ United We Stand - Falaholics One and All

November 22, 2003, 17:37	#18
Andy the Aussie Dinosaur Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 216 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Down Under Posts: 12,754	Caddy I agree with your point....howver most have shown up with the perpertrators of the rapes not the victims... This is a sore point with me I guess....

November 22, 2003, 21:02	#19
gunnut1 Moderator Gold Contributor FALaholic #: 1877 Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: The great Republic of Texas USA!!!!! Posts: 10,448	But Andy, I thought the Aussie gobment banned just aboput anything that went bang! How can these be on the street? Aren't they banned? Don't the criminals abide by the ban on firearms in Australia? Damn mate, funny how that works! Do the Aussie politicians have any idea of what is going on in the streets or are they like our gobment and do the kneejek dance on gun control? __________________ Texas, it's a state of mind!!!! The human race is not the pinnacle of evolution. We are but one evolutionary out come.

November 22, 2003, 21:12	#21
Andy the Aussie Dinosaur Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 216 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Down Under Posts: 12,754	Yes these and many other such weapons are illegal...always have been and will remain so. The Govt can't (because that is not part of their policy) see that the legally held firearms in the country are not the problem. They are bound on a course of making firearm ownership not possible out here no doubt. I surely do not agree with that one little bit. I do however sleep a little better at night knowing that the 735 of these are no longer in circulation. To put it into context of how it MAY be viewed in the US......think about a group of bloods or crips or (insert you fav gang here) setting up a shop to manufacture a cheap Tec 9 or Mac, (media love to grab hold of such names) and then to sel them only to their gang buddies for their gang purposes (I am guessing they are not shooting IPSC or even legitimate CCW). When they start showing up (with bodies attached) think about the publicity hat gives your RKBA movements. Hence my joy to see the flith behind such things inside. Milhol is so very right when he talks of our (society) willingness to be victims....fight back and fightback hard....it is what separtes prey from the predators. If you are too hard a target they tend to skulk back to the sewer that they crawled out of till something that will lay down and die comes along. Time to climb off my soap box and go fix my fish pond. Andy

November 22, 2003, 22:35	#22
Gremper Registered FALaholic #: 8848 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 1,024	Andy I remember your country with affection. I had a great time in WA in the 80's. I also had a lot of fun with some of your mates in '68-69. Your Canberra pilots were damn accurate! I also remember (slightly) some parties in Vung Tau! Unfortunately too damn many of our politicians are trying to follow the example yours have set. I always remember the origin of the word "politics". "Poli" is from the Greek word for many. Ticks are small bloodsuckers. __________________ Four boxes guarantee our freedom: They are the Soap Box; the Ballot Box; the Jury Box; and the Cartridge Box. To be Born Free is Luck. To Live Free is a Privilege. To Die Free is a Responsibility British by birth, American by choice! ROMAD, USAF Msgt (ret), Life Member NRA . Member AGA, GOA, LEAA, JPFO. CCRKBA

November 22, 2003, 23:50	#23
milhol Registered FALaholic #: 4692 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: South Australia Posts: 356	Well said that man!! __________________ www.australianguerrilla.com www.mysheaths.com

November 23, 2003, 00:31	#24
Andy the Aussie Dinosaur Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 216 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Down Under Posts: 12,754	Gremper you are spot bloody on...this is still a great country with great people...(cept of course for that Rat Bag milhol) but the pollies have screwed it right up.....seems to be a common theme through out the world...!!! All the best. Andy

November 23, 2003, 00:44	#25
milhol Registered FALaholic #: 4692 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: South Australia Posts: 356	Rat bag????? It's an X-box thing isn't it? Rematch? Pepper spray used to be legal but some bright spark thought that it could be taken of you and used against you. When it was legal some poor kid was being hassled for his Nikes by a bigger kid so he sprayed him. A cop was passing and witnessed the entire event and arrested the sprayer for using an offensive weapon in public. The mugger got let off with a warning. Is it just me or do we have a serious problem with right and wrong here? __________________ www.australianguerrilla.com www.mysheaths.com

November 23, 2003, 05:01	#26
redmenace Registered FALaholic #: 10199 Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 22	It sounds almost like these things could be considered muzzle loaders (or could be made as such) And would not only be legal but not even considered firearms in the states correct?

November 23, 2003, 08:39	#27
gunseller Registered FALaholic #: 10120 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,460	And while we are on the subject, did I say subject? That is what some people would like the rest of us to be, subjects. What is the old saying, "The differance between a subject and a free man is a firearm." Or something like that. You are right in that the hardest part of self defense is doing it not talking about it. Which reminds me of another old saying," It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." Gunseller

November 23, 2003, 09:10	#28
Derby FALs Supreme Leader FALaholic #: 2361 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 2,610	I'll take six, please... __________________ “Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add "within the limits of the law" because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.” - Thomas Jefferson Salami, salami, baloney... :bow: http://www.derbyfals.com/home.htm

November 23, 2003, 23:28	#30
pogue warrior Registered FALaholic #: 11129 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sydney Aust Posts: 90	This was one of Ron Owens last creations called the TC10 Owen mini gun, took a 32rd mag and sold as a parts kit. Gotta give credit, the guy never gave up! But his rorting of the deactivation laws by using Qld soft deact laws to import thousands of chinese pistols, do the basic deact then sell including parts and instructions to get them back into working order, were part of the reasons for the current dramas.

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