Garage Shop?

[Old Sarge]

Hi All
I recently moved. One of the things that I wanted to make sure I would have was space to setup as a shop of sorts. I got a house with a three car garage. I have one whole cars worth to set up as I see fit. Any recomondations on how to or what I might want in it? Will be using it for builds of varios kits, car work every now and then. I am thinking that a good place to start is a Sub panel so I have plenty of power to run any of the goodies I get. Then some lights (8' fluorescent lighs). Need a bench of some sort? Storage ect. Let me have your ideas and will see where it ends up.

Thanks
Old Sarge AkA Bill

[John Culver]

definately want a sub panel.
Bench wouldd be helpful.
Firtst and foremost do something with the floor.
seal all the cracks/crevices. Make it so if a spring or part hits the floor
it cannot escape. (you'll appreciate this in the future)

[SAHLEIN]

I think the floor comment was great! Sounds like my Dad....."only feet goes on
the floor".
Aside from good lighting is good ventilation... You cannot expect yourself to do
good work in a dank cellar half-overwhelmed with any kind of fumes.
Joe

[hydrotx]

Parts washer and bench grinder. Both have been unbelievably useful

edited to add: Floor mat, save much pain on knees and feet. 18 wheeler mud flap as work surface. Its padded, no much eats it away and its waterproof. Dirt cheap too!

[Sophicles]

You most definetly need a bench and a good quality vise mounted to it. These are a must! How much do you want to do on the builds? If you plan on refinishing then you'll need a good air compressor and a blast cabinet. The import cabinets can be made reliable with a little sealant, but I wouldnt skimp on the compressor. I have an Ingersol-Rand single stage that Im very pleased with. I also have run black pipe to three drops in my shop (blasting, air brush, and general use blower). This helps cool the air down as well as separate some of the water. As you mentioned good lighting is a must because you WILL drop parts...some you will recover . My shop is wired for 110 and 220 and Ive come to see this as a plus because most of the better gear is 220 (also more economical to run). You may want to consider a fatigue mat because standing on concrete after while can be a real can wear you out. I bought a Craftsman stackable tool chest (like a car mechanics) that works quite well for all my tools. Hang a paper towel rack cause youll use plenty of em! Also if you have a ragbag in the house comondere it for the shop you'll use even more rags. Overhead cabinets will be great in your shop for chemicals, stains, etc. Rubbermaid, or generic storage containers work well for parts, rags, and the like....get creative with the nooks and cranies. HTH and good luck.

Oh one thing I dont have and wish I did in the shop is running water. This would be a great conveinience and will ease tensions with your better half. Ask me how I know! If you can swing it get a utility basin with hot and cold running water.

[flyer05]

Great info. I have a 3 1/2 car and last year was the first year we got a car in the garage (only been about 6 years). Now I need a pole barn or anything about 30 x 60. Hopefully next spring I'll put it up and do it just right. (wife willing)

[Farmer from Hell]

I highly recommend the gorilla shelving that they sell at Sams club. Pretty damn sturdy and easy to set up.

If you live near a University see if they have a department that sells surplus college goodies. I got a really nice general work bench from them like Granger sells and also some parts storage cabinets/bins. I also bought a solid wood bathroom type door from them for $10 and then used it to make a heavy work bench by faming up some 2x6's under it. That mo-fo is sturdy! I bought one of the rotating Colubian vices from HD and mounted it in one corner. I dont plan to use it for barreling so Im not worried about breaking it. I use it for normal everyday stuff.

You might want to cover you bench in a thin sheet of plywood and then polyurethane the surface. The poly will seal it and keep things like your gun vice from walking and liquids getting absorded and the plywood will protect the bench itself so when its gouged up you can simply unscrew the short drywall screws holding it down and replace the plywood rather then the whole bench. Id make your benchs waist high so you dont have to stoop over to work on stuff. I can rest my hands palm down without bending at the waist at my benchs.

You will need the usual drill press and bench grinder also.

Not long ago HD was selling these small carpet covered doormat things that are super great for working on guns. Cheap enough that you dont care if you spill anything on them and short enough nap on the carpet that small stuff wont get lost in it.

FfH

[SAHLEIN]

Damn smart words about the height of the bench, If it's right you wont get
the "hatchet-between-the-shoulder blades feeling".
I had to share a lathe that was set up by a co-worker who was about 5'5"
and here I am 6'2" and nearsighted!. Used to threaten to dig a ditch in front
of the SB and make him a removeable floor to work on when I wasn't there.
Joe

[Ohfal]

Aside from the bench and other equipment mentioned, I really like a lot of light, especially when working on the toys. Iv put several Halogen lights around the ceiling corners, facing the bench. It takes all the shadows out and gives plenty of light when needed.
Another handy item in the shop is a construction site clean–up magnet.

[toolman_ar]

Ventalation was mentioned, but I also like to have a good box fan. The little garage I have now stays very hot in the AL summer. I have been looking at hanging the fan from the celing to save on space.

I like the idea of incorporating the parts cleaner into the top of the bench. Get a good size cleaner and drop it into the bench. Then fold the top down and you have a cool storage spot in the bench.

If you plan on being at your new home for a while, I would get some good quanlity cabinets. I like the Stanley, but they are exspensive!

In my dream shop, I want to have a metal working area for grinding, welding and sheet metal work. Then, a clean room with AC for assembly work. And don't forget the two post car lift!

Toolman_ar

[SAHLEIN]

Toolman gave me another idea. I'm gonna be in Miss. in about 60 days.
I've looked into a dehumidifier for the house. Grew up there but been away
about 35 years. Heat isn't a big deal for me but humidity sure is.
I ordered "my shop" already. It's an ocean-going shipping container, a 40' one.
The things are waterproof and damn near airtight. I used to use them for
storage at work for material and spare parts etc. Since my place looks like a jungle it'll be in shade most all the time anyway. Will make a good motorcycle garage too. Price delivered is 1200USD brought down from Memphis.
Joe

[NHBandit]

Depending on what part of the country you live in you may want to think about heat. I've got a pretty well equipped shop built in a 3 bay garage but being in NH it's no fun working out there in the winter. A really cheap solution is to ask around at heating oil companies and heating contractors to see what they may have used. My local oil company had several small hot air furnaces taken out of mobile homes that needed minor repairs and they were free for the taking.

[Caspian]

urinal attached to the wall with a pipe running outside. i think the wife would kill me if i tried it, but it's a pipe dream. if you can get away with it, you'll save hours throughtout the year plus aviod dragging dirt, oil, grease, etc into the house.

heavy duty work bench. i build one from solid white oak. check around for local mills which have great prices on bulk wood. i can get it for as low as $1/square foot. for less than $100 you'll have a bench that weighs 400 lbs and won't move when you're pounding or torquing. predrill the holes as oak is hard as hell. also use gorilla glue for an eternal bond.

lots of lights as mentioned.

carpet remenant for infront of the workbench (under it put foam for comfort). the carpet is really handy in keeping parts from rolling away from you.

shelving as mentioned. helps keep thing orgainzed.

if you have room, construct a spray cabinet with an exhaust fan vented outside. the more powerful the motor, the better (both for drying and keeping fumes and overspray down to a minimum)

caspian

edited b/c i forgot a coffee maker and/or small fridge for beer, cola, etc.

[idsubgun]

Advice on a parts washer. Go as big as you can afford and have the room for. You'll be glad you did.
When I was doing a lot of machine work out of my home shop, years ago, I had Safety-Kleen install a parts washer and do the monthy services. I've been getting more and more gun work lately, so I thought about starting that service up again. They wanted $141 a month to do it with their large tank on a 30 gallon drum. I asked about buying a washer from them and they sold a brand new, large tank/30 gallon parts washer to me for $241. I have them on a service schedule of 6 months at $158. I can cancel the 6 month service at any time, but the washer is mine to keep. Just another route to go. They do have several sizes of washers and they are all better quality then the Harbor Freight ones.

Also, check with Home Depot, Lowes, etc., and see if they have any damaged Formica counter tops. These make good work bench tops and they are cheap because they can't sell them to people remodeling their kitchens. I bought a 6' one for around $12 IIRC.

[bykerhd]

The Gorilla racks and benches are very good and not too expensive but if you plan to put any weight on them then replace the particle board shelves/tops with plywood.
Used solid core doors can be gotten for nothing many times when businesses are renovating buildings( my company just tossed a bunch ). They make pretty decent bench tops.

[medicmike]

A parts washer is a must if you are doing much automotive work. Basic bench grinder, vice etc as others have stated and you can never have enough storage. I built a 2 1/2 car garage to use exclusively as a shop. Here are a few pics of what I did with it.



View from the front of the shop


Tool storage against the overhead door.





Machine shop corner





Here is one of the benches I built. Frame is 1.5" square tubing and top is 1.25" plywood capped with 1/8" masonite. The bead blaster is to the right. Air is plumbed in with copper pipe.


Here is the reloading bech.

The thing is to start with the basics and add tools as you need them. Keep an eye open for deals, most of my shop has been equpped with used euipment with the exception of the big machinery.

[venturini]

Lots of really good tips here!

I'll only mention fairly tight dapped carpet to go under, in front of, and to the sides of the bench. Cut it so that you can pull the carpet out from under the bench to search for lost parts and for cleaning.

We use carpets (usaully outdoor lawn mats) when working on motocross bikes at the track but I've found the practice to come in handy in the garage as well because parts seem to stay within the boundary of the carpet. Also consider the color of the carpet. Beige works good for motocross because most parts that fall off are gray or black so they stand out.


A CD player/radio, mini-fridge, sink, and ventilation would be nice too.

[Icarus]

want my suggestion?

Open negotiations with your spousal unit. Ask for one more stall. Settle for 1/2 of the next stall.

The floor comments above are great ideas. They sound like they come from men of experience!

[Bwana John]

Discussions of this type will lead to the revoking of any WESCOG degree that one has earned, and is in blatent disreguard to the rules of WESCOG. If you cant do it with a single-jack hammer and a blow torch under a shade tree with duct tape, bailing wire, and zip ties, you should give up any WESGOG units earned to date.

[Deltaten]

Bwana:

I disagree...

Any 'yote worth his salt can whip up an FAL from nothing, with no tools. It takes a really dedicated WECSOG'r to FUBAR a part/gun w/all that professional-type equipment. Ya really gotta work at it, tho...

best,
Paul

[lutefisk]

Hey Caspian,
How 'bout just using Big Gulp Mtn Dew bottles instead of the urinal? For those free loading friends that stop in and won't leave. Hmmm, have one on ice.

Old Sarge, I made an air cleaner with two intake and one exhaust using furnace filters (externals are coarse and secondary intake is fine). Powdered by a fan. Probably real good idea for paints, solvents and sanding/blasting dust.
Suggest you consist your need for heat/cool before picking the lighting pkg. Those halagens put out a bunch of heat and some have bulbs that are difficult to change-I'm switching to flourescents.

[SAHLEIN]

Yeah, Great idea! Just remember to put the warm ones in the back of the mini-fridge.

[Old Sarge]

Icarus
Good Idea. I could use the second bay if I park my truck on the driveway.

So far I have decided on flooring. I am going to put down industral tile. Insulate the roof and maybe the walls. paint the roof and walls a lighter color. 220 sub panel. I will have to look into heating and cooling. How hot or cold dose it get in Austin Tx? I found some 6' pallet racking at Home Depot for storage.

Thanks
Old Sarge AkA Bill

[divechief]

Forget the urinal and just go with the laundry tub sink. It can serve dual purpose. The work bench is the heart of the shop. Go as big and as heavy as possible.
divechief

[Cyclic]

Here in Texas we laugh at cold weather. Don't ever really see what I consider cold. Heat on the other hand, will pound on you if you have no ventilation or A/C. For your reference it is just starting to warm up right now, it will get hotter! I have a 2 car and except for air flow I love it. I'm looking into adding A/C or a really large fan setup.
So far I've lucked out with the electricity issues. I have only had to add a single 220 circuit for the welder, and it was on the same wall as the breaker box. All other circuits I'm adding are 110 leads for individual machines. I'm using the plastic grey surface mount commercial stuff and it looks pretty good.
I'm about a hour north of you sarge and I've been here for about 18 years so I kinda know the heat.
I kind of cheated on my garage set up. I placed tools, machines, work benches, and tool boxes on the outside walls. I then built a central work area using a solid core door as the top surface. I placed it right at the edge of where the car parks making an island bench setup when the car is outside. It leaves my wife parking for her car and lots of space for me to work just by pulling out the car.

[idsubgun]

Yeah, hot and cold is a big thing. You never know when a freak weather thing will happen. Hell, we had the nation's hottest temps last week, which is highly unusual. But it happens. But, it was a dry heat, with humidity no higher then the mid 30's, but still 108 degrees one day. HOT!
But, cold is harder to deal with. You probably won't ever have to deal with it, but a small space heater, or kerosene heater, stuck in the corner for that freak weather wouldn't hurt.
I heat with a kerosene/heating fuel space heater, you know the jet engine type. It works, but is noisy. I may have to run the gas line around the house one of these years and install a gas heater.
You guys in Texas don't need that, and if it does get cold, then you just need to stay out of the shop for a couple days and the weather should get back to normal. We can't do that, as the cold lasts all winter.

[SAHLEIN]

One additional point for a really "elegant" set up. Put in a central VACUUM
system. One of those Wet/Dry kinds that uses a 30 gal drum for a collector.
It really isn't hard to do. Just use PVC Electrical conduit angle fittings for the
bends and corners so you don't have 90 degree elbows to plug up.
I put one in at the last shop I worked in. Had drops for the mill, lathes, and
the pedestal grinder and a couple in the ends of the space for general clean-up. The only problem encountered was that it worked so well everybody took it for granted and then one day it wouldn't work so well. Found that after about
2 years we had about 50 gals of fine metal chips in the drum. Musta been
2 tons of steel in there! Including nuts, bolts, lost parts, pieces of broken
bearings, cutting torch slag, etc, etc.

[Court in Fl]

Don't forget to have a smoke detector that's wired to one in the house
close to your bedroom.

Court in Fl.

[SAHLEIN]

The smoke detector idea is Great! We had 2 fires in the last shop, small, but
coulda been bad if it happened on a weekend! Both involved sawdust!
First one was in the base of the band-saw before the Vacuum was installed.
Had a build-up of sawdust ignited by dumping a lot of hot metal chips on top.
Second one was under a conveyor that moves pallets of completed product
through the strapping and wrapping machines. Was wood dust and splinters from pallets mixed with grease dripping from a bearing in a covered up out-of-
sight-place under the conveyor.
GET a Fire Extinguisher Too!
Joe

[TFA303]

Insulation is much cheaper than oil, electricity or propane. Consider a hanging partition / curtain of some sort so that you can keep the A/C in your part of the garage.

Get twice as many lights as you think you need.

If you have the time and inclination, you could jackhammer out a trench in the center of the bay for working under the car. Not a full stand-up pit like Jiffy Lube, but just a foot or so makes a big difference.

Maybe you want to hard-pipe the air from your compressor to different parts of the garage so you're not dragging a hose all over the place.

Install a chain fall or block & tackle in the ceiling ?

There is a company that makes a real urinal that folds out from the wall, specifically for garages.

You are a lucky dog. I don't have a garage, basement or attic. Enjoy!



Tom

[lutefisk]

If your'e going to install a central vacumn(a great idea), I'd strongly suggest a ground wire through the hoses/pipes. Century weapons are not the only thing that go KaBoom!

[2ifbyC]

Put everything you can on lockable wheels. I don't know how many times I've had to 'redecorate' due to adding a new 'gotta have'!

I also have a roll-around bench stool with an pneumatic height adjustable seat. Makes for a more pleasent stay in the shop and aids in the prevention of HSS (Hatchet Shoulder Syndrome).

BTW, greats ideas from THE crowd!

[dino1]

Hey Sarge, it's dean, we talked awhile about your job status. BTW you don't need a urinal if your shop sink is low enough : ) If it's to high you could always use a step stool. My shop is being transformed into a 3rd bedroom to make the s.o. happy but I get a 24 x 30 shop out of the deal. COOL!

[SamIAm]

Use multiple 4', instead of 8', fluorescents. You'll save a fortune when it comes time to start replacing bulbs.

[idsubgun]

Originally posted by SamIAm
Use multiple 4', instead of 8', fluorescents. You'll save a fortune when it comes time to start replacing bulbs.

I agree when it comes to buying the fixtures, but I've bought 8' for my wife's place of business and paid terrible prices for the tubes. But after shopping around, I found places that sell 8' for the same price as 4'. The tubes that is. The fixtures are still higher priced for the 8'.
That being said, I'm buying more 4' as that is the ones I started with and don't want to change now.

Plenty of light is a must!!!

[dino1]

What sucks about the 8' tubes is throwing them away.

[idsubgun]

Originally posted by dino1
What sucks about the 8' tubes is throwing them away.

Not at all. Take the tube, hold it over your trash can, and start at the bottom, hitting it with a heavy metal object. I use a large screwdriver, busting it up into the garbage.

[TheOtherChris]

Originally posted by SamIAm
Use multiple 4', instead of 8', fluorescents. You'll save a fortune when it comes time to start replacing bulbs.

I have both in my garage and prefer the 8's over the 4's.
Tubes are cheaper in the 4's, but I have to replace them more often than the 8's.
Also, if you live in an area that gets cold, consider getting the High output fixtures because the energy saving ones that are more common now don't start up well when the temps get cold. As has been stated already, get more than you think you will need.
I also have a couple of those 500w halogens. Don't try to paint a car under fluorescents.

Heat: I have one of those unvented wall mounted propane radiant heaters. I have a 125 gal tank in the back that will run it all winter on low (to keep my paints etc. from freezing) and when on medium or high will warm the shop to where I can work without gloves or a coat. Very nice since we see temps of -20°F here in SE idaho.

Bench: I have several. Some use OSB for the top, and others use plywood. My favorite is one that is 8 feet long and solid steel with the top made from a sheet of ¼ inch armor plate. I had to use a torch to cut holes for the vice. You should have seen the movers put that thing in the truck the last time I moved. you can weld, hammer or rebuild an air-cooled engine on this baby.

For layout in your garage bay, consider having the benches along the walls and roll-away tool boxes and cabinets along the side by the next bay. That way you will still have plenty of walkway between them and the benches, but can move them into the middle bay to make enough room to pull a car in to work. If you attach a couple lengths of heater hose to the back of the roll-aways, it will help prevent dings in the edge of the car doors when somebody opens them too far and hits the back of the roll-aways.

Have fun.

The Other Chris

[Deltaten]

What you need is cabinets, cabinets, and MORE cabinets!

pic from last year, whilst setting up. More organized now; but usually messier

[dino1]

So how does one run a ground on a central vacuum system? I was thinking of using a crappy wet dry vac and plumbing it up for such a use. TIA

[Old Sarge]

Hi Dean
I passed on the job we talked about. Found one that fit bette for a little more in the north end of town. Got everyone and all my stuff moved here. Stay in touch.

Bill

[BretShooter]

Reloading bench under breaker box just doesn't seem right to me.

If your garage has an attic, vent it with lots of CFM during the summer, it will help keep the garage cooler.

Ground for the vac system can be done with screws every few feet and a wire attached to all of them going to your grounding point.

edited to add "Reloading".