CZ 52 pistol info from the NRA

TideWater 41009 · July 13, 2003, 14:38

From the American Rifleman magazine, August 1995, page 44;

"The Czech version of the 7.62 x 25 mm cartridge is based on the Soviet 7.62 mm Type P pistol cartridge used in the TT-30 and TT-33 Tokarev, but Czech ammunition is loaded considerably heavier that its Soviet counterpart. While dimensionally similar to the 7.63 Mauser cartridge, interchangeability is not recommended as the commercially loaded Mauser ammunition is considered too light to reliably cycle the Model 52."

Clark · July 14, 2003, 13:13

I got a Letter from Ted Curtis ballistican at Accurate Arms in March of 2000 and I believe AA circulated the letter at the Shot Shot the same year. Ted Curtis, a very old ballistican already was bald and had jowls in his 1966 photo in "Speer 7". All the typos are Ted's:

"7.62 X 25 Tokarev

Due to the large number of handguns imported into the U.S. chambered
for the 7-62 x 25 Tokarev Accurate Arms has developed the following loaddata for those shooters who wish to reload the little powerhouse. In
determining the appropriate pressure limit for our load data we tested
various military ammo from China, Russia, Austria Bulgaria and the
Czech Republic. Commercial ammo produced by Sellier and Berloit was also tested. Based on these tests we arrived at a maximum pressure for our lad data of 42,000 C.U.P. Only the single lot of Russian ammo was
significantly below this pressure averaging 31,000 C.U.P. The consistent
pressures between all other type sand manufactures was a welcome
surprise . Indeed, the fact that CZech ammo, made for the CZ-52 pistol,
produced the same pressure as that of the other countries was perhaps
the biggest surprise of the whole project. This in spite of the "tribal
lore" regarding this particular handgun and the ammo loaded for it
claiming that shooting Czech ammo in any other firearm so chambered will causes spontaneous disassembly. The pressure data produced by the ammo tested certainly doesn't support this theory. "

The letter goes on and on, but I think that part is pertinant.

TideWater 41009 · July 16, 2003, 22:46

I have no idea what lot or lots of Czech ammo Ted Curtis pressure tested, but I doubt he tested any marked 3 52 BXN. If not, then he should not have made a blanet statement regarding all Czech ammo, as you have made regarding all Czech VZ52 pistols after wrecking two of them.

This ammo averaged 1575 fps in a CZ52 of mine, and I'm glad I wan't shooting a Mauser C96 or Tokarev at the time. The same ammo clocked 1836 fps in a SMG with an 11" long barrel. If anyone can prove to me that this ammo was not higher pressure than average, then I will humbly stand corrected. The muzzle blast and recoil was remarkable.

Clark · July 17, 2003, 11:16

I can't prove anything about Czech ammo, but the ammo I have is marked "1 53 bxn" and the 80% that fire produce a consistent 1550 fps from a CZ52.

The Polish ammo I have from 53~55 is inconsistent in velocity varying from 1450 to 1550 fps, but they all go off.

The S&B new factory ammo all measures 1550 fps and has stronger brass and is reloadable. I would trade Polish at 7 cents a shot to get S&B at 17 cents a shot.

And Tidewater, thanks again for the post about the 1970 government publication. I have been trying to find the origin of this "CZ52 is stronger" legend for years.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...threadid=80760

GSF1200 · July 17, 2003, 21:21

I only get 1512 fps with S&B in my CZ-52, it shoots real nice. I wish S&B would make hollowpoints for a buck a box extra.

masman · July 18, 2003, 04:50

Quote:

Originally posted by GSF1200
. I wish S&B would make hollowpoints for a buck a box extra.

check with fwra i belive the same company that makes the .223 timbs loads a hollow point.

July 13, 2003, 14:38	#1
TideWater 41009 Registered FALaholic #: 1789 Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 1,364	CZ 52 pistol info from the NRA From the American Rifleman magazine, August 1995, page 44; "The Czech version of the 7.62 x 25 mm cartridge is based on the Soviet 7.62 mm Type P pistol cartridge used in the TT-30 and TT-33 Tokarev, but Czech ammunition is loaded considerably heavier that its Soviet counterpart. While dimensionally similar to the 7.63 Mauser cartridge, interchangeability is not recommended as the commercially loaded Mauser ammunition is considered too light to reliably cycle the Model 52."

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July 14, 2003, 13:13	#2
Clark Registered FALaholic #: 1213 Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 750	I got a Letter from Ted Curtis ballistican at Accurate Arms in March of 2000 and I believe AA circulated the letter at the Shot Shot the same year. Ted Curtis, a very old ballistican already was bald and had jowls in his 1966 photo in "Speer 7". All the typos are Ted's: "7.62 X 25 Tokarev Due to the large number of handguns imported into the U.S. chambered for the 7-62 x 25 Tokarev Accurate Arms has developed the following loaddata for those shooters who wish to reload the little powerhouse. In determining the appropriate pressure limit for our load data we tested various military ammo from China, Russia, Austria Bulgaria and the Czech Republic. Commercial ammo produced by Sellier and Berloit was also tested. Based on these tests we arrived at a maximum pressure for our lad data of 42,000 C.U.P. Only the single lot of Russian ammo was significantly below this pressure averaging 31,000 C.U.P. The consistent pressures between all other type sand manufactures was a welcome surprise . Indeed, the fact that CZech ammo, made for the CZ-52 pistol, produced the same pressure as that of the other countries was perhaps the biggest surprise of the whole project. This in spite of the "tribal lore" regarding this particular handgun and the ammo loaded for it claiming that shooting Czech ammo in any other firearm so chambered will causes spontaneous disassembly. The pressure data produced by the ammo tested certainly doesn't support this theory. " The letter goes on and on, but I think that part is pertinant.

July 16, 2003, 22:46	#3
TideWater 41009 Registered FALaholic #: 1789 Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 1,364	I have no idea what lot or lots of Czech ammo Ted Curtis pressure tested, but I doubt he tested any marked 3 52 BXN. If not, then he should not have made a blanet statement regarding all Czech ammo, as you have made regarding all Czech VZ52 pistols after wrecking two of them. This ammo averaged 1575 fps in a CZ52 of mine, and I'm glad I wan't shooting a Mauser C96 or Tokarev at the time. The same ammo clocked 1836 fps in a SMG with an 11" long barrel. If anyone can prove to me that this ammo was not higher pressure than average, then I will humbly stand corrected. The muzzle blast and recoil was remarkable.

July 17, 2003, 11:16	#4
Clark Registered FALaholic #: 1213 Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 750	I can't prove anything about Czech ammo, but the ammo I have is marked "1 53 bxn" and the 80% that fire produce a consistent 1550 fps from a CZ52. The Polish ammo I have from 53~55 is inconsistent in velocity varying from 1450 to 1550 fps, but they all go off. The S&B new factory ammo all measures 1550 fps and has stronger brass and is reloadable. I would trade Polish at 7 cents a shot to get S&B at 17 cents a shot. And Tidewater, thanks again for the post about the 1970 government publication. I have been trying to find the origin of this "CZ52 is stronger" legend for years. http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...threadid=80760

July 17, 2003, 21:21	#5
GSF1200 Registered Contributor FALaholic #: 4687 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lafayette,LA Posts: 1,065	I only get 1512 fps with S&B in my CZ-52, it shoots real nice. I wish S&B would make hollowpoints for a buck a box extra.