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Old January 02, 2005, 21:40   #51
BattlePack
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Carry on James. Give us an update every 6 months. Think its time for another bath for Ol' Dirty?
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Old January 04, 2005, 00:48   #52
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My god ! I could never secome to such torture to my baby
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Old January 11, 2005, 18:04   #53
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The AK isn't the only semi-auto that can withstand abuse and neglect!
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Old February 01, 2005, 20:52   #54
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That is impressive behavior from any weapon. I have seen M60's fail after a slight dust storm. I would have choked any of my troopers wha allowed their M16 to look like that. I am a clean freak...

I am impressed. I only have a Century L1A1 with an Imbel receiver. If I can get it to function 1/10th that well, I'll be pleased.
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Old March 03, 2005, 16:14   #55
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Only other FAL I know of that could go longer with more abuse and still keep ticking like a Rolex watch would be an Imble kit on one of those aluminum Williams recievers. I'll bet....... Oops, hope that didn't open up a can of worms. I'll just stay quiet.

- Rene
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Old March 11, 2005, 00:16   #56
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This thread just shows that the FAL is capable of mind-numbing abuse and still functions.

The oft repeated canard that Israel stopped using the FAL because of reliability issues comes to mind. Talk to anyone who "knows" and they will tell you the Israelis had issues with the FAL's reliability, but I have never believed it was the real case. Older veterans I've spoken to who fielded the Israeli FAL have said the same thing -- that they had no problems with the rifle, they just felt it was more complex than necessary.

I imagine that "old dirty" will continue up to around 15-20K rounds before conking out. That's WAY beyond any normal service life considering the abuse being heaped on it.

Israeli soldiers were NO where near that bad!
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Old May 16, 2005, 19:54   #57
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Old May 27, 2005, 03:55   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by CRShooter32
Any updates on 'Ol Dirty? Was she cleaned yet? If not, how many rounds is she up to now?

I saw the link to the thread posted on the ARF15 best .308 thread, and had to ask.
Have a link to that thread? I would like to check it out.
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Old June 07, 2005, 16:10   #59
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I am impressed. Very impressed. My next .308 might just have to be a a FAL.

How about an update on Ol' Dirty.
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Old June 08, 2005, 22:04   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by izaakb
This thread just shows that the FAL is capable of mind-numbing abuse and still functions.

The oft repeated canard that Israel stopped using the FAL because of reliability issues comes to mind. Talk to anyone who "knows" and they will tell you the Israelis had issues with the FAL's reliability, but I have never believed it was the real case. Older veterans I've spoken to who fielded the Israeli FAL have said the same thing -- that they had no problems with the rifle, they just felt it was more complex than necessary.

I imagine that "old dirty" will continue up to around 15-20K rounds before conking out. That's WAY beyond any normal service life considering the abuse being heaped on it.

Israeli soldiers were NO where near that bad!
I agree.

I did a study once trying to get info on the reported malfunctions of the Izzy FAL's and found numerous articles, and they all quoted the same info, verbatim!!!

This was about 6 years ago when I did this and even emailed the Israeli
Government in hopes of finding somebody that might have some personal knowledge and actually got 1 reply by some very low level official and replied to him with no response back.

It almost sounds like one article spawned an urban legend about FAL failures in Israel.
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Old June 09, 2005, 08:25   #61
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I have heard both claims from older IDF guys when I was in Israel. Most said they couldn't remember, and a handful said they had no problem and a handful said it was the relative complexity (compared to the AK/Galil) which was the issue regarding reliability (i.e. the belief that more parts = more to fail, which I do not agree with).

On the NRA's video Guns of Israel, there is a retired general interviewed who said the same thing about the FAL in a passing comment and the narrative says that there were reliability issues, but it doesn't give any details.

The problem in ISrael is that guns are not viewed in the same way as in the US -- Israelis generally see guns like you see your hammer -- it's a tool with a specific purpose, not a baby to be adored. As such, there are not so many "arms historians" in Israel in the same way as they are here.

I have a friend whose father was in the '67 and '73 wars and an armorer (after being injured in combat). I have meant to ask him several times, but he doesn't use email at all, so it's hard to get into a conversation..

Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Allen

I agree.

I did a study once trying to get info on the reported malfunctions of the Izzy FAL's and found numerous articles, and they all quoted the same info, verbatim!!!

This was about 6 years ago when I did this and even emailed the Israeli
Government in hopes of finding somebody that might have some personal knowledge and actually got 1 reply by some very low level official and replied to him with no response back.

It almost sounds like one article spawned an urban legend about FAL failures in Israel.
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Old June 26, 2005, 10:30   #62
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Re: Ol' Dirty & Israeli FAL "reliability"

I always wondered about those stories regarding Israeli use of the FAL and
the so-called reliability issues they had with them. FALs seem to be able to stand use in sandy environments as well as AK-47s, AKMs, etc.

I have long suspected one of the major reasons the FAL was dropped for
front-line issue in Israel was cost. The FAL was always an expensive
rifle to build in terms of manufacturing costs and the Israeli government
may have decided that it was too much $$$. I don't think the U.S.
government would agree to subsidize the purchase of a foreign made
rifle like the FAL, whereas it would subsidize the purchase of M-16s or
just give them away as part of a military-aid deal. Just some random
thoughts as I never really bought into the reliability issue as far as the
Israeli question was concerned.
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Old June 26, 2005, 18:50   #63
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I am impressed. I have alot of respect for the FAL after reading this and seeing the pics.
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Old July 14, 2005, 22:48   #64
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Any more updates?
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Old July 15, 2005, 00:17   #65
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Ol' Dirty has right at or a little over 10,000 rounds fired through it without a cleaning. Just keeps chugging along.
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Old July 15, 2005, 11:08   #66
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Great News!

Thanks for the update. Maybe you should submit an article to one of the gun rags??

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Old July 25, 2005, 19:22   #67
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Beware, there is a guy on battlerifles.com that has an M1A with 8500 rounds with no cleaning; he's going for 10K too!
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Old July 25, 2005, 23:21   #68
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Uh-Oh,

A battle of the Titans...

I'm guessing both will do fine. My experience with the M1A has been very positive, too.

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Old July 31, 2005, 20:04   #69
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Here are a few pictures of Ol' Dirty at 9400 rounds. Piston spring is still broken but it function 100% of the time. I will get to 10,000 rounds soon but don't know when. My work has been interfering with my shooting for about the past year otherwise I would be way over 10 g's by now.
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Old July 31, 2005, 20:06   #70
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Pic #2
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Old July 31, 2005, 20:06   #71
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Pic #3 and 4
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Old July 31, 2005, 20:42   #72
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OK how do you get two pictures in one post?
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Old August 01, 2005, 01:13   #73
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Gotta have em hosted (lots of free picture hosting servers out there), then use the "IMG" button to display them.

This thing should be retired soon, 10,000 rounds without cleaning..........now that's torture testing!!!
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Old August 07, 2005, 21:23   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by James
OK how do you get two pictures in one post?
I recommend that you stick with single pics for this thread.

If you go to a hosting site to obtain multiple pics in one post, all the pics will be lost when the hosting site craps out - and they all do.

By sticking with single attachments to your posts, the pics will live as long as the FAL Files lives.

Long live the FAL Files!
Long live Old Dirty!!!
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Old August 07, 2005, 21:34   #75
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Gary,
Thanks for the info on the pictures. I did not know how the hosting worked but now that you explained that they disappear if the hoster craps out I know exactly what you are talking about. I have seen one or two year old post where some of the pictures would not come up but others did so that must be what happened. I will continue with the single pictures.

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Old September 26, 2005, 03:03   #76
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WOW!! I remember hearing about this a while ago. I swear man when you clean it take a whole lot of pics and some video. So we can see all the crud that comes off of it.
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Old September 26, 2005, 09:15   #77
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Old September 26, 2005, 22:49   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ubernoodle
WOW!! I remember hearing about this a while ago. I swear man when you clean it take a whole lot of pics and some video. So we can see all the crud that comes off of it.
I think we will probably have to call the local septic tank service to suck all the crap out of that thing
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Old October 01, 2005, 13:06   #79
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Man is that thing nasty. You have to like a rifle that will stand up to so much abuse.

Big question is, when you hit 10k will you keep going or rebuild the rifle? With the price of kits now-a-days it may be prudent to rebuild.
I know this brands me as a heritic or worse but I think it is a valid question.
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Old October 01, 2005, 21:12   #80
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'Bout the only thing he would have to do is a deep cleaning, maybe a barrel or gas piston & replace a broken part or two.

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Old October 02, 2005, 23:03   #81
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Hell no, put it in a shadowbox over the mantle.

Or, just for kicks- stick it in the marketplace.....

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Old October 03, 2005, 22:19   #82
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I'm the guy from amback who's been torture testing my M1A. I now have over 9000 rounds through it. I have not cleaned-even in a puddle-, lubed or field stripped. To date, I've had one ammunition related malfunction. I still get 3" groups with Portuguese surplus. When I finally shoot the last of the surplus, I may consider cleaning it. Isn't it nice to have a firearm that works. I never thought much about FN's until someone mentioned Ol' Dirty. Maybe I'll get one of them and 10 or so cases of surplus so as to add to the database. Out of curiousity, how in the world did you actually decide to do this? You should know that most on amback believe I'm nuts for mistreating my rifle so. I suspect you're a bubble off of plumb yourself. Nice job.
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Old October 03, 2005, 22:32   #83
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maybe the owner of old dirty and the m1a being tested did this,i do not know. but it would have been nice to know the exact headspace and T.E. and M.W. measurements before the testing began and when the guns finally get cleaned just to compare wear characteristics....
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Old October 03, 2005, 22:57   #84
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Welcome Steve,

Ol Dirty should be right at 10k now. Also, I believe James told me that barrel had a few thousand through it before this all began.

The dip in the puddle was not a "cleaning", it was further "testing".

I still prefer the FN but, the M1A/ M14 is a great rifle also. I've enjoyed all of mine including the title II piece I just traded off.

A few here thought he was off his rocker for doing this too but, it's not like this is his only FN, he has many nice FALs. Besides, I know he is just off his rocker probably because of old age.
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Old October 26, 2005, 21:09   #85
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have you cleaned the barrel at least or is this a real torture test?
bump!
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Old October 27, 2005, 15:39   #86
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Cleaning ought to be pretty easy with a powerwasher and a good solvent Good post!
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Old October 27, 2005, 19:34   #87
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Zero maintenance. No bore cleaning, no lube no wiping it down. Nothing. The only thing I've done to it , other than load it and shoot it, was to take off the wood stock and replace with a synthetic stock.
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Old October 27, 2005, 19:40   #88
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The last time out I crammed 260 rounds down Ol' Dirty's barrel to make it a total of 10,000 rounds without anything being cleaned. The only thing I do is lub the rails and bolt and carrier. I found out that if there is no lub and everything is dry I have ejection problems. Apparently there is too much fiction between the carrier and the rails which does not let the carrier go all the way back to get a clean ejection. A little oil and everything works good. The piston return spring is still broken but that has not caused any problems.

Even with everything as dirty as it is the accuracy is still very good. I was able to hit the 400 yard gong with regular consistency. The gongs are nine inches wide and about 24 inches tall.

I haven't decided on cleaning or letting it go on. I would like to see what it looks like clean but I would also like to see how far it will go before I do need to clean it.

Anyone that wants to inspect Ol' Dirty or shoot it will have their chance at the Texas get-together in November.

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Old October 27, 2005, 20:03   #89
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that gun should become a national treasur

you should raffle it off when done with it
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Old November 04, 2005, 18:41   #90
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that gun should become a national treasur

you should raffle it off when done with it

AMEN!
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Old November 04, 2005, 19:04   #91
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I'd say give it a good cleaning, mount it on a plaque, and raffle it off for the board.
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Old November 04, 2005, 19:09   #92
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I'd say give it a good cleaning, mount it on a plaque, and raffle it off for the board.
Perfect. Although, James does have to agree to this.

Edit: This is post one thousand for me!! yea
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Old November 05, 2005, 14:58   #93
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Originally posted by spartacus2002
I'd say give it a good cleaning ...
Cleaning? Blasphemy!
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Old November 10, 2005, 23:18   #94
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Gee... I remember Ol Dirty from a few years ago- then i went without a computer and the files for a while...Good to see it is still going strong! It reminds me of the video of a brit anti-gunner trying to smash an STG with a sledge as it sat on a stump- or was it a cinder block- anyway they whacked away a good many times, and finally bent a bipod leg, ooooh. Tough guns- thats why we like 'em

The finish seems to have held up very well for this kind of treatment.
What did you use? and where was the rifle stored between beatings? inside or in a shed, truck, ect.?
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Old December 05, 2005, 15:55   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Allen

I agree.

I did a study once trying to get info on the reported malfunctions of the Izzy FAL's and found numerous articles, and they all quoted the same info, verbatim!!!

This was about 6 years ago when I did this and even emailed the Israeli
Government in hopes of finding somebody that might have some personal knowledge and actually got 1 reply by some very low level official and replied to him with no response back.

It almost sounds like one article spawned an urban legend about FAL failures in Israel.
Everything that I've seen on the History Channel, etc. doesn't really say anything about reliability in desert environments other than it's role in the battlefield. The Israelis wanted an assault rifle not a battle rifle. Even the designer of the Galil said that the FAL was good at single shot use but not for full auto which was the primary reason he designed the Galil and probably why so many of the IDF soldiers carry the M-16 and the Galil. Both are smaller, lighter and are easier for the soldier, both male and female, to use in full auto.
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Old December 08, 2005, 16:36   #96
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What's the status of Ol' Dirty???

Just wondering if Ol' Dirty is still around and what its status is? I've told several of my friends about this legend and was just wondering??????
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Old December 09, 2005, 09:30   #97
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If Ol Dirty is still around, James should come to the FAL get together at Whittington Center April 28, 2006 and bring Ol Dirty with him so we can all see it up close and personal!
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Old December 09, 2005, 09:38   #98
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Quote:
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...It reminds me of the video of a brit anti-gunner trying to smash an STG with a sledge as it sat on a stump- or was it a cinder block- anyway they whacked away a good many times, and finally bent a bipod leg, ooooh. Tough guns- thats why we like 'em

The horror...

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Old December 09, 2005, 12:02   #99
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thats a sad pic
dont let your kids see that
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Why wouldn't you hunt with an FAL?
Home is where they understand you. - Garfield
"I love my Beater AK"
Rivet it and forget it
Even my AR spits commie led
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Old December 09, 2005, 12:07   #100
NineseveN
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 192
I just threw up in my mouth a little.
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