Marking a Home Built Firearm

**xtremerange** · February 15, 2003, 19:59

I know there are no requirements from the ATFE for marking a homemade firearm, only the recommendation in the event of it being stolen.

However, ordered some of the recent Century castings. They are already marked with every pertinent bit of info except the serial number. The are marked with the model -- R1A1 Sporter-- and the caliber -- .308 -- and they are marked from Century Arms.

Q: How would someone disinguish a home completed casting from a Century made and serialed casting?

Follow on Q: Is there a regulation that keeps a homebuilder from mimicking of even duplicating the markings of a licensed manufacturer?

newfalguy101 · February 15, 2003, 20:26

well I am certianly no expert, but, I believe that Century and all other manufacturers are required to maintain a serial number list along with whom they sold the gun/receiver to.

As for duplicating manufacturers markings, in the first place why would you want to?? IMHO, if I were talented enough to make my own parts and pieces, I would want the whole durn world to know that I DID IT!!!

I also suspect, but dont know for sure, that there may be some "trademark" issues

Hope this helpful and correct

CDReid · February 15, 2003, 22:54

I think i may know your answer from my business.

By duplicating those markings you commit a copyright and trademark violation. In addition if you try to sell the weapon .. ever.. you are committing fraud. Fraud is something you dont want to mess with. And why the Hell would anywone want to put 'century' on anythhing.. ever? lol. Well its better than HESS i guess :P

HawaiiFALer · February 16, 2003, 01:30

If you go into the Vendor forum and look under FAC, the thread which talks about marking type 1 receivers as original G-1's will give you some idea of what to avoid.

ripndee · February 16, 2003, 16:09

xtremerange,

Quote:

Q: How would someone disinguish a home completed casting from a Century made and serialed casting?

In my case I machined off all of Century's markings. I wanted no confusion about where my receiver came from. Just made up a serial num. that was distinct to me and stamped it on.

I don't think it would be a good idea to try to duplicate another manufacturers markings, but if you put out all that work why would you want to?

Rip

**xtremerange** · February 16, 2003, 17:29

My follow on question came from an idea about 1911 frames and matching them to part kit slides, not really any nefarious motivation.

Thanks for the replies. The fraud thing is a good point that I hadn't considered, not that I was even thinking of selling things.

Anyone else?

Pluribus · February 16, 2003, 20:42

As a casting It's not a firearm and any marking's on it are irrelevant. You may remove them with no manner of violation. If you don't remove the Century marking's and arbitrarily assign a number to the receiver for your record's and, forbid, something happen's such as theft or, again forbid, you defend yourself or family with it, there could be some confusion as to possible duplicity of number's (century). I'd remove the Century stuff and, if numbering it, do it after it become's a "firearm". My .02.

Doug

sargehuf · February 16, 2003, 23:41

When a firearm is run on NCIC to see if it is stolen, it is run by serial number. It is not uncommon for a "hit" to occur on a serial number, but the weapon entered is is not the one being run. The "hit" indicates make, model and caliber of the stolen firearm. For instance, I recently ran a Davis .22 derringer, and got a hit on a Jennings semi-auto .22 pistol.

So, lets say you stamp a serial number of 12345 on your homebrew FN FAL. It so happens that Joe Blow had a Century R1A1 stolen, serial # 12345. He tell the investigating officer that the rifle stolen is a FN FAL, so that is how it is entered in NCIC. See where I'm going with this?

Lots of guns prior to 1968 didn't have serial numbers. Other than the fact that it makes recovery of said firearms more difficult if stolen, no problem. If you apply a serial number, or OAN (owner applied number) to the receiver, just make it distinct; something like your initials followed by 5 numbers followed by an Alpha suffix, like RTC11113R.

Additionally, if you have removed markings from the receiver, and there is no serial number, and the receiver shows the slightest evidence of having markings removed, you may find yourself under suspicion of removing or altering a serial number on a firearm.

IIRC, OAN's may not be accepted by NCIC in the event of theft, but the above procedure may prevent your rifle from being misidentified as a stolen firearm if it is ever run on the system.

February 15, 2003, 19:59	#1
xtremerange Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 4305 Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 2,339	Marking a Home Built Firearm I know there are no requirements from the ATFE for marking a homemade firearm, only the recommendation in the event of it being stolen. However, ordered some of the recent Century castings. They are already marked with every pertinent bit of info except the serial number. The are marked with the model -- R1A1 Sporter-- and the caliber -- .308 -- and they are marked from Century Arms. Q: How would someone disinguish a home completed casting from a Century made and serialed casting? Follow on Q: Is there a regulation that keeps a homebuilder from mimicking of even duplicating the markings of a licensed manufacturer? __________________ --David

February 15, 2003, 20:26	#2
newfalguy101 Registered FALaholic #: 6260 Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Clay Center, NE Posts: 4,241	well I am certianly no expert, but, I believe that Century and all other manufacturers are required to maintain a serial number list along with whom they sold the gun/receiver to. As for duplicating manufacturers markings, in the first place why would you want to?? IMHO, if I were talented enough to make my own parts and pieces, I would want the whole durn world to know that I DID IT!!! I also suspect, but dont know for sure, that there may be some "trademark" issues Hope this helpful and correct __________________ Trust in the LORD with all your heart, mind and soul......... front sight, press. repeat as needed! 01 FFL :biggrin: Transfers $20 orders actual dealer + $50 Clay Center, NE

February 16, 2003, 17:29	#6
xtremerange Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 4305 Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 2,339	My follow on question came from an idea about 1911 frames and matching them to part kit slides, not really any nefarious motivation. Thanks for the replies. The fraud thing is a good point that I hadn't considered, not that I was even thinking of selling things. Anyone else? __________________ --David

February 16, 2003, 20:42	#7
Pluribus Registered Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 5600 Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wichita, America Posts: 3,259	As a casting It's not a firearm and any marking's on it are irrelevant. You may remove them with no manner of violation. If you don't remove the Century marking's and arbitrarily assign a number to the receiver for your record's and, forbid, something happen's such as theft or, again forbid, you defend yourself or family with it, there could be some confusion as to possible duplicity of number's (century). I'd remove the Century stuff and, if numbering it, do it after it become's a "firearm". My .02. Doug __________________ W. W. J. W. D? (What Would John Wayne Do) Were it not for ignorance, thus we would remain. Never hate your enemy, it only clouds your judgment.

February 16, 2003, 23:41	#8
sargehuf Registered FALaholic #: 8412 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 28	When a firearm is run on NCIC to see if it is stolen, it is run by serial number. It is not uncommon for a "hit" to occur on a serial number, but the weapon entered is is not the one being run. The "hit" indicates make, model and caliber of the stolen firearm. For instance, I recently ran a Davis .22 derringer, and got a hit on a Jennings semi-auto .22 pistol. So, lets say you stamp a serial number of 12345 on your homebrew FN FAL. It so happens that Joe Blow had a Century R1A1 stolen, serial # 12345. He tell the investigating officer that the rifle stolen is a FN FAL, so that is how it is entered in NCIC. See where I'm going with this? Lots of guns prior to 1968 didn't have serial numbers. Other than the fact that it makes recovery of said firearms more difficult if stolen, no problem. If you apply a serial number, or OAN (owner applied number) to the receiver, just make it distinct; something like your initials followed by 5 numbers followed by an Alpha suffix, like RTC11113R. Additionally, if you have removed markings from the receiver, and there is no serial number, and the receiver shows the slightest evidence of having markings removed, you may find yourself under suspicion of removing or altering a serial number on a firearm. IIRC, OAN's may not be accepted by NCIC in the event of theft, but the above procedure may prevent your rifle from being misidentified as a stolen firearm if it is ever run on the system. __________________ "Best general purpose battle rifle that uses a detachable box magazine is the FN-FAL paratroop short rifle. Beautifully balanced, accurate, reliable and powerful, it is the author's choice." Chuck Taylor, "The Fighting Rifle: A Complete Study of the Rifle in Combat", Paladin Press, 1984 *TX-FNFAL - A Brigade of One *

February 15, 2003, 22:54	#3
CDReid Registered FALaholic #: 8095 Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 232	I think i may know your answer from my business. By duplicating those markings you commit a copyright and trademark violation. In addition if you try to sell the weapon .. ever.. you are committing fraud. Fraud is something you dont want to mess with. And why the Hell would anywone want to put 'century' on anythhing.. ever? lol. Well its better than HESS i guess :P

February 16, 2003, 01:30	#4
HawaiiFALer Registered FALaholic #: 7768 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Hawaii Posts: 1,452	If you go into the Vendor forum and look under FAC, the thread which talks about marking type 1 receivers as original G-1's will give you some idea of what to avoid.

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