IMBELs: Have you ever..... bottomed out?

dougjones31 · January 03, 2003, 15:06

This seems to be popping up more and more.

Who has had their barrel bottom out on the back of the feed ramp before the barrel shoulder touched the receiver? If so, what kind of receiver are you using?

I have never seen this happen on any receiver except the Imbels that FAC sells....the one that Century Imports. I have seen it happen on Century imported non GL receivers and have heard of it happening on the century imported GL receivers. I do not buy the century Imports and have never had this problem on a PAC imported Imbel GL receiver!

Some input from you guys may answer a big question we all have about these Century imports. I think that all of the Century imported Imbel receivers are Factory seconds or defects that Century got real cheap. The non GL were the first ones to make me ask this question. If they were made by Imbel then why wouldn't they put the Gear Logo trademark on them. Were they not up to spec. I recently got to inspect one of the Century imported Imbel GL receivers and the Gear Logo is not stamped with the same machinery as the PAC imports, this make me wonder if they are just the Non GL receivers that Century has had stamped with the Gear logo to get a better price for them.

Lets have some imput and settle this question once and for all! If the bottoming issue is only happening with Century Imports then we know something fishy is going on!

ce · January 03, 2003, 15:18

WTF was I thinking (EvMod was here)

Got pretty reliable bottomouts on the Century made Inch pattern receivers, and only one of the NGL Imbels.

I dunno if it's an actual conspiracy, but we have noted discrepancies in receivers that were shipped around Carnaval.
Blackbird was down there and concurred that the girls from Ipanema could be quite a distraction for a lonely machinist.

garybob · January 03, 2003, 15:42

O-kay, I'm inclined to believe dougjones31 is onto something here.
The rifle I posted on in other thread is a Tapco barrel from one of their front end only deals, I've had a few months.
Going onto gear logo Imbel(c.a.i) import.
Went downstairs and got a kit I'm doing for a friend.
Dan's type 3 kit, Imbel Gear Logo(C.A.I.) import.
This barrel spun right on by hand to just a hair past 9:00.
Bottomed out like first and I can slide the cover page of the new Small Arms Review between front of receiver and barrel shoulder.

Okay, grabbed a barrel I bought from gw11.
Dan's grade 1, same receiver,exact same results.

grabbed Tapco barrel from first receiver and tried in second receiver.
Same deal,thread in by hand to 9:00-9:15 ,bottoms out with distance between barrel shoulder and receiver.

Took all three barrels to try on first receiver. not one barrel will thread into receiver by hand,need to use wrench.

But all three will hand thread into second receiver.

Nearly had the same situation with a G1 build on a non g/l Imbel before these builds

RMLamey · January 03, 2003, 16:56

Doug were you up all nite watching another X-Files marathon

DC · January 03, 2003, 17:24

the only way to find this out is to do a decent survey of enough people who have built on gear, non gear, PAC imported, and Century imported receivers. You will also have to account for the year too. And barrel manufacturer at a minimum.

An Excel spreadsheet is a good place to start then apply some statistics. I don't have the time to compile it though.

Having said that, it has happened to me. See this thread:
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...ight=weirdness

HATCH · January 03, 2003, 18:02

I have a 2002 GL imbel CIA import from FAC.
It timed to 10:45-11:00.

I had a Tapco $99 kit and a $200 receiver from FAC

BTW headspace was .2595 ( between .259 and .260)

The bolt and carrier was mis-matched but is was down along time ago.

CHARLES

rob1 · January 03, 2003, 20:29

I've had two non logo Imbels and two gear logo Imbels, ALL bottomed out.
The two gear logos were for a coworker, just finished them yesterday. Only problem with one was the aforementioned bottoming out but that second one was a biotch...several issues with that one but I think I've gotten them all resolved.

dougjones31 · January 03, 2003, 21:29

Rob1,

Where they Century imports?

**W.E.G.** · January 03, 2003, 21:47

Done a bunch of IMBEL's - no bottom-out

Attempted one Hesse - it bottomed-out (among other defects)

olephart · January 03, 2003, 22:43

If you aren't measuring the parts it's hard to know if it's the barrel or the receiver that is out of spec. At the risk of becoming ineligible for the coveted WECSOG diploma, I will disclose that I have a depth mike and have measured the relevant parts with the following results.

Recievers - front face to feed ramp shoulder:

2 Imbel stubs, .830 .823
1 STG stub, .830
2 Coonan receivers, .828, .828

Barrels - Breech to shoulder:

2 Imbel, .816, .816
1 STG, .816

The worst case here would be .007 clearance before torqueing and about .005 after. Maybe someone that has the problem could take some measurements for us.

I think you could have good measurements, as above, but still have a clearance problem. Thats because we assume the threads are to spec. What if you have a barrel that the factory torqued to 250 lbs? I would think the threads would strech to the point that clearance could be a problem. What do you think about this?

bowhuntrRL · January 03, 2003, 23:00

I just got an Imbel GL from Harlan last week and guess what ??? The barrel times to about 10:00 at which point it bottoms out inside the receiver and not on the shoulder. I think that there may really be something to the "seconds" theory. Maybe we should let Harlan know and see what he says about it. I guess they can be made to work, but it's surely not the optimum condition that you could hope for. I bought an Imbel for my Imbel kit because I wanted something that would fit and work correctly. Oh well, maybe next time I'll spend the extra $38 and get a PAC Imbel receiver !!!

EDIT 1/18/2003 Upon further examination with a depth micrometer, there is about .008" clearance. This should be more than adequate. The distance from the face of the action to the inside shoulder falls right in line with what others have observed it should be.

bowhuntr

dougjones31 · January 04, 2003, 01:28

We do not have enough data to determine if the century receivers are out of spec! Lets wait on the the thread stretching theory until we have more peoples experiences...... We still have not heard from anybody about a PAC Imbel GL receiver having this problem of bottoming. Until we do, I am going to keep with the "Seconds" theory!

I do not think Harlan is going to take the heat for Century......He knows that we can all make the receiver work! You get what you pay for! I always use PAC receivers from Dealers Warehouse.....unless I use a Coonan! That is my next build!

goose · January 04, 2003, 02:09

Well I was timing a PAC GL dated 2001. I had two different Imbel barrels. One of the barrels bottomed out at about 10:00 and was hitting the chamber face. The other timed at 11:00 and fit like they show on TV. There seems to be a lot of years and or torque put on these kits allowing for variables to come into play regarding fit. That's my theory anyway

**moses** · January 04, 2003, 03:10

I had a pac gear logo that a Izzy HB bottomed out on.

twistgrip1 · January 04, 2003, 07:34

I have a PAC 2002 GL Imbel Receiver with a Dan's Imbel barrel. Bottoms out at 10:00. Kinda sweating my first time build with this thing. I have been reading quite a few posts about this problem and it seems to not matter whether the receivers are GL or non-GL.

twistgrip1 · January 04, 2003, 07:50

Correction to my last reply; my receiver is a FAC GL Imbel...NOT a PAC. Sorry for the brain mush.

187 · January 04, 2003, 09:45

I have had several Century imported GL and NGL receivers and have had a few (about 10%) where the barrel bottomed out against the back of the feed ramp. I have not had any DSA, other than Century GL, Coonan, or Entreprise bottom out.

I have also had quite a few builds where I ended up needing a really small size locking shoulder, like .253" or .254". Not a problem. but I just haven't seen it with other manufacturers.

rob1 · January 04, 2003, 17:52

Quote:

Originally posted by dougjones31
Rob1,

Where they Century imports?

Yep, all were CAI imported from FAC.

old jarhead fart · January 04, 2003, 18:49

How about emailing Imbel and asking if they sell receiver 2nds, and if so, to who, as you want to buy several?

OJF
MOLON LABE

**GMB74** · January 04, 2003, 20:40

I have one 2002 Imbel GL reciever from FAC (Century) and 3 Tapco kits, one G1 and two Imbels. The G1 barrel timed to 10:30 without bottoming. The Imbels both bottomed out way early- about 9:30-10:00. I shaved the shoulder on the G1 to time it to 11:00 and it went together fine without bottoming. It took a .260 LS. How's that for an easy first build? I have ordered Coonan recievers for the Imbel kits. Hopefully I will get a better match this way.

droog · January 04, 2003, 21:00

My Hesse bottomed out.

droog · January 04, 2003, 21:11

Thats half the fun to me to put these things together. I beleive they wouldnt call it gunsmithing if everything just fell together they would call it assembeling like what you do to AR-15's.

olephart · January 04, 2003, 21:11

Ahhh, some facts. GMB74 seems to have 2 out of spec barrels - receiver is fine. Or is the G1 that went together ok out of spec just enough to correct for a bad receiver?

I doubt it. The receiver and the G1 bbl are probably fine. Those Imbel barrels seem to have a problem.

Now, if we could just get some measurements on the Imbel bbls we could determine if the shank was too long or the threads are stretched big time.

LtRiker · January 04, 2003, 21:16

You guys are making me nervous....
so I had to go run and measure the Izzy HB I picked up today.....809 breech to shoulder....whew NOT stretched....

HD99FXR3 · January 04, 2003, 22:33

1 PAC GL, 3 DSA type1's and i barreled hatch's century GL and 2 or 3 at the build party all NGLs from century no problems. but i am of the opinion like doug that most problems of late on the files are from century NGLs

Court in Fl · January 05, 2003, 03:23

I have seen it enough that it's something I look for when installing a barrel on any receiver now.
I have run in to this with Hesse and Century inch receivers
and some Non Gear Logo Imbels with Imbel barrels.

The Hesse receiver used a R1 barrel and the Century used a
L1A1 inch barrel.
With Hesse and Century receivers I expect this,
but with Imbel it surprises me.

I like the Non Gear Logo receivers and have built lots of them
(maybe 20) with no problem. So I tend to think this new problem is with the Imbel barrels and most likely not the receivers.

As I said in other posts, I grind on the inside sholder (feed ramp)
to correct the problem, but I think you could also use a small belt sander and bevel the breach end of the barrel to get enough clearance.

This is not a big problem, IF YOU HAVE THE TOOLS.

Take Care, Court in Fl.

olephart · January 05, 2003, 09:34

LtRiker, Thanks for measuring - I'd like to see a few more measurements so we can tell what is a "normal" range on bbls and receivers. Your measurements are pretty far off from what I have been getting (.816), but it's in a good direction.

For you guys that may use the tail of a caliper to measure, make sure you hold it parallel and compensate for the amount the tail is not even with the base of the calipers. The tail of my caliper is .004 inside of the unit so it reads that much too long on all depth measurements. Stand the caliper up on a flat surface and see how far it will extend before it hits the surface. Deduct that from your measurements.

If stretched threads are the problem, you will not detect this with measurement of the breech to shoulder. The entire shank will not stretch. The threads deform and get further apart than normal. They can be tightened, but will have to take up the extra distance before they get tight. The only way to tell without the proper tools is to elliminate the bbl and receiver dimensions as a problem and notice some looseness in the threads.

I think we may be having 2 problems. Stretched threads and short Imbel receivers or a combination of the two. I tend to believe something is going on with the Imbel receivers because when people like Mr. Court think something is going on, it usually is. Lets measure some of those receivers!!!

Untill we find some real specs or enough measurements are taken, I am going to use the following for identifying the out of spec part:

Reciever face to feed ramp - .825 minimum.
Barrel breech to shoulder - .819 maximum.

If you have these dimensions and still hit, it's the threads. Regardless of the problem, Mr. Court's fix is the best.

old jarhead fart · January 07, 2003, 19:44

O.K., I'v read all the posts in this thread about possible problems w/either streatched threads on the barrel or out of spec NGL Imbel receivers. I'v got a G1 kit with very nice barrel, and just eyeballing the threads, they appear to be ok. So I'm going to order a NGL recv. from FAC, and we'll see what happens.

OJF
MOLON LABE!!!

M1Tanker · January 07, 2003, 20:12

Measured my Imbel Barrel at .809 and my G-1 barrel at .805.

Chris

dougjones31 · January 07, 2003, 22:22

We need some more imput!
Come on people lets have those measurements!

**GMB74** · January 16, 2003, 19:34

More fuel for the fire:
I recently got a Coonan (FAFAL2) reciever and a Dan's Grade III Imbel kit. The barrel hand times to 11:00 with lots of room between the end of the barrel and the feed ramp. I tried the other two Imbel barrels I have (see previous post above). They both time to 10:45-11:00. All three barrel stubs measure .810-.812 from the breechface to the barrel shoulder.

Comments?

jamie930 · January 16, 2003, 21:08

Imbel gear logo 2002 CIA import on a Tapco Imbel barrel bottoming out. Tried same barrel on DC type I hand timed perfectly. Filed breech face down enough to torque up right. Headspaced with .255

ACE308 · January 16, 2003, 23:15

My first build for the FAL. I used a FAC gear logo rec. G-1 barrel. Bottomed out but removed the finish on the breach and cranked that barrel to fit. Headspace? Don't know how to. Suggestions?

FALout · January 17, 2003, 08:27

This my first FAL build. I have a GL Imbel reciever, measured .816. The barrel is from a Imbel kit, it measures .817+ (not perfect all the way around, plan on putting in lathe as soon as it gets a little warming in the garage-lathe won't work, variable speed hyd drive

) Barrel just bottoms out with slight gap @ shoulder -9:30-10:00.

FAL guy · January 17, 2003, 10:42

Quote:

Originally posted by ACE308
Headspace? Don't know how to. Suggestions?

There is a wealth of info here on the Files. Just do a search on How to Headspace in the Gunsmithing forum. You will have tons of threads with very detailed info. When you get your guages and pins (or rods) let us know your measurements and someone will double check your math.

Timber Wolf · January 17, 2003, 12:38

Had one bottoming out experience with an Imbel receiver but I can not remember what kind as it has been a while. Could have been a FAC Gear Logo or a FAC "Inch" Imbel, I was building on both at the time. A couple of strokes with the dremal inside the receiver cleaned it right up as I did not need to take much off. I have an Imbel, several Entreprise type 3s, a WAC, and a Century Inch "unibrow" along with a few Imbel barrels I will try and measure this weekend.

bowhuntrRL · January 18, 2003, 08:34

Imbel barrel .816"-.817"

FAC Imbel GL receiver .823"-.824"

I should add, it hand times to about 10:30-10:45

**EMDII** · January 18, 2003, 11:33

the Imperial We wonders:

Seth Livzz · January 18, 2003, 12:41

None of the above for me. Lucky I guess.

Court in Fl · January 18, 2003, 13:17

Last night I barreled a customers New FAC gear logo receiver.
The customer had bought a VERY nice STG-58 kit.
The barrel hand timed around 10:00 and I could not fit a .002
feeler gage between the breach and the feed ramp.
This thing bottomed out big time !
Measured the depth of the receiver best I could with my caliper
and it measured .819. I dug in my safe and found a PAC gear
logo receiver I bought from SARCO about 18 months ago and
measured it the same way, it measured .833.

So I think in this instance the FAC receiver was a little out of spec.
Ended up grinding the inside of the receiver with a cut off wheel
so when I had the barrel installed and indexed I could just fit the .002 feeler gage between the breach and the feed ramp.

The fact this was a STG kit tells me it's not the barrel that's
out of spec.

Another strange thing about this receiver , the head of the hinge
pin would not sit flush with the receiver. I tried a hinge pin from a G-1 kit and same thing. Ended up grinding the cut out on the receiver for the head of the pin to fit in the recess on the receiver.
It needed this on BOTH sides. First time I ever saw this on an IMBEL receiver.

The guy in Brazil making this receiver needs to quit drinking on the job.

I love working with IMBEL receivers and will buy more in the future
but this one was just a little off.

Sorry for the long post.

Court in Fl.

**Hebrew Battle Rifle** · January 18, 2003, 13:42

I am a frog that was kissed by a Princess. She was no virgin by any stretch. The result of the kiss by this not so virtuous female is that I am now a 300 pound frog.

Snakeshot · January 18, 2003, 16:26

I wouldn't mind being kissed by a frog if she had dark curly hair and big round eyes, even if she does smoke unfiltered cigarettes and says Americans are peegs...

But really, need another poll option for those of us who have twisted quite a few barrels onto Imbels without that problem.

Brian in MN · January 18, 2003, 17:58

Never have but I bet that evil moderator moves this thread to Gunsmithing.

EmbassyMarine · January 18, 2003, 19:24

I was kissed by a 'frog' in Paris....but then all the french are 'frogs'..

dougjones31 · January 19, 2003, 06:24

9 or 10 Imbels built on PAC GL Imbel reveivers with not one problem!

**fal fiend** · January 19, 2003, 07:31

bottomed a izzy h/b out in a pac gl imbel,,maybe a few .oo1's,,any time u rethread a izzy barrel,,,Never time it in the reciever past 10:30 or so,,these barrel zoom up when tighten them,,i have done 3 izzys now,,2 h/b & 1 l/b,,might save some other some grief

**bykerhd** · January 19, 2003, 07:37

Built on a DSA Type I, Coonan Type I, PAC Gear Logo Type III Imbel & rebuilt on a NGL Type III Imbel. No problems at all with the receivers, except I have to get an oversize shank locking shoulder for the NGL. (rebuilding a Century built L1A1) Fingers are crossed.
Thinking of trying a Century Unibrow for one of Rhineland's .45s when they are available for a challenge.(also the cost)

lost · January 19, 2003, 08:07

I had an CAI that bottomed at about 9.00
I took wet stone to the barrel face. I just dressed it down
slightly. Retryed until it timed at 10:45 by hand. It took alot of torque to get it to 12:00 . But seems to work fine.
My thoughts were, Replacement barrel 50 bucks. replacement reciever 200.00.
From reading this post it appears Im the only one to have done this. Did I do a bad thing??

archy · January 19, 2003, 15:56

Quote:

Originally posted by bykerhd
Built on a DSA Type I, Coonan Type I, PAC Gear Logo Type III Imbel & rebuilt on a NGL Type III Imbel. No problems at all with the receivers, except I have to get an oversize shank locking shoulder for the NGL. (rebuilding a Century built L1A1) Fingers are crossed.
Thinking of trying a Century Unibrow for one of Rhineland's .45s when they are available for a challenge.(also the cost)

My thoughts exactly. A nifty way to pick up a receiver that may actually be BETTER suited to feeding the wider .45 slug, as well as a nice way to pick up another FAL parts kit in one fell swoop.

I thought I was the only one with this bright idea, but great minds think alike....

-archy-/-

**gw11** · January 19, 2003, 17:05

Out of 16 builds one Izzy HB bottomed out at 10:30 on a Gear Logo and no problems on the rest which are Gear and one DSA type 2.
All of my builds have been Imbel and STG, one Standard Izzy and the one HB
I always make sure that there is clearance at the shoulder after tightening!
gw11

View Poll Results: Have you ever-
had a barrel bottom out on a Century import Imbel NGL receiver?	18	14.88%
had a barrel bottom out on a Century import Imbel GL receiver?	23	19.01%
had a barrel bottom out on a PAC Imbel GL receiver?	17	14.05%
had a barrel bottom out on a Coonan receiver?	1	0.83%
If your barrel bottomed out, was it an IMBEL barrel?	29	23.97%
been kissed by a frog?	39	32.23%
Never had a barrel bottom out	43	35.54%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

January 03, 2003, 15:06	#1
dougjones31 Registered FALaholic #: 6967 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 4,282	Who has had a barrel Bottom out? This seems to be popping up more and more. Who has had their barrel bottom out on the back of the feed ramp before the barrel shoulder touched the receiver? If so, what kind of receiver are you using? I have never seen this happen on any receiver except the Imbels that FAC sells....the one that Century Imports. I have seen it happen on Century imported non GL receivers and have heard of it happening on the century imported GL receivers. I do not buy the century Imports and have never had this problem on a PAC imported Imbel GL receiver! Some input from you guys may answer a big question we all have about these Century imports. I think that all of the Century imported Imbel receivers are Factory seconds or defects that Century got real cheap. The non GL were the first ones to make me ask this question. If they were made by Imbel then why wouldn't they put the Gear Logo trademark on them. Were they not up to spec. I recently got to inspect one of the Century imported Imbel GL receivers and the Gear Logo is not stamped with the same machinery as the PAC imports, this make me wonder if they are just the Non GL receivers that Century has had stamped with the Gear logo to get a better price for them. Lets have some imput and settle this question once and for all! If the bottoming issue is only happening with Century Imports then we know something fishy is going on! __________________ "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future." --Adolf Hitler, 1935 Last edited by dougjones31; January 03, 2003 at 15:18.

January 03, 2003, 15:42	#3
garybob Registered FALaholic #: 7691 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arkansas Posts: 399	O-kay, I'm inclined to believe dougjones31 is onto something here. The rifle I posted on in other thread is a Tapco barrel from one of their front end only deals, I've had a few months. Going onto gear logo Imbel(c.a.i) import. Went downstairs and got a kit I'm doing for a friend. Dan's type 3 kit, Imbel Gear Logo(C.A.I.) import. This barrel spun right on by hand to just a hair past 9:00. Bottomed out like first and I can slide the cover page of the new Small Arms Review between front of receiver and barrel shoulder. Okay, grabbed a barrel I bought from gw11. Dan's grade 1, same receiver,exact same results. grabbed Tapco barrel from first receiver and tried in second receiver. Same deal,thread in by hand to 9:00-9:15 ,bottoms out with distance between barrel shoulder and receiver. Took all three barrels to try on first receiver. not one barrel will thread into receiver by hand,need to use wrench. But all three will hand thread into second receiver. Nearly had the same situation with a G1 build on a non g/l Imbel before these builds __________________ Strive to be prepared!

January 03, 2003, 17:24	#5
DC Registered FALaholic #: 275 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Memphis Posts: 578	the only way to find this out is to do a decent survey of enough people who have built on gear, non gear, PAC imported, and Century imported receivers. You will also have to account for the year too. And barrel manufacturer at a minimum. An Excel spreadsheet is a good place to start then apply some statistics. I don't have the time to compile it though. Having said that, it has happened to me. See this thread: http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...ight=weirdness __________________ see ya DC "Disarmament Relies on Cooperation" Socialism is the Superhighway to Tyranny

January 03, 2003, 18:02	#6
HATCH Registered FALaholic #: 8211 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: south carolina Posts: 133	I have a 2002 GL imbel CIA import from FAC. It timed to 10:45-11:00. I had a Tapco $99 kit and a $200 receiver from FAC BTW headspace was .2595 ( between .259 and .260) The bolt and carrier was mis-matched but is was down along time ago. CHARLES Last edited by HATCH; January 03, 2003 at 18:04.

January 03, 2003, 15:18	#2
ce Registered FALaholic #: 373 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,905	WTF was I thinking (EvMod was here) Got pretty reliable bottomouts on the Century made Inch pattern receivers, and only one of the NGL Imbels. I dunno if it's an actual conspiracy, but we have noted discrepancies in receivers that were shipped around Carnaval. Blackbird was down there and concurred that the girls from Ipanema could be quite a distraction for a lonely machinist.

January 03, 2003, 16:56	#4
RMLamey Registered FALaholic #: 3671 Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Biloxi, MS Posts: 487	Doug were you up all nite watching another X-Files marathon

January 03, 2003, 20:29	#7
rob1 Registered FALaholic #: 529 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Chapel Hill, TN US Posts: 2,160	I've had two non logo Imbels and two gear logo Imbels, ALL bottomed out. The two gear logos were for a coworker, just finished them yesterday. Only problem with one was the aforementioned bottoming out but that second one was a biotch...several issues with that one but I think I've gotten them all resolved. __________________ Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up. See this? THIS is my BOOMSTICK! Last edited by rob1; January 03, 2003 at 20:31.

January 03, 2003, 21:29	#8
dougjones31 Registered FALaholic #: 6967 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 4,282	Rob1, Where they Century imports? __________________ "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future." --Adolf Hitler, 1935

January 03, 2003, 21:47	#9
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,052	Done a bunch of IMBEL's - no bottom-out Attempted one Hesse - it bottomed-out (among other defects) __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

January 03, 2003, 22:43	#10
olephart Registered FALaholic #: 8163 Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 294	If you aren't measuring the parts it's hard to know if it's the barrel or the receiver that is out of spec. At the risk of becoming ineligible for the coveted WECSOG diploma, I will disclose that I have a depth mike and have measured the relevant parts with the following results. Recievers - front face to feed ramp shoulder: 2 Imbel stubs, .830 .823 1 STG stub, .830 2 Coonan receivers, .828, .828 Barrels - Breech to shoulder: 2 Imbel, .816, .816 1 STG, .816 The worst case here would be .007 clearance before torqueing and about .005 after. Maybe someone that has the problem could take some measurements for us. I think you could have good measurements, as above, but still have a clearance problem. Thats because we assume the threads are to spec. What if you have a barrel that the factory torqued to 250 lbs? I would think the threads would strech to the point that clearance could be a problem. What do you think about this?

January 03, 2003, 23:00	#11
bowhuntrRL Registered FALaholic #: 4782 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: North Brookfield Posts: 125	I just got an Imbel GL from Harlan last week and guess what ??? The barrel times to about 10:00 at which point it bottoms out inside the receiver and not on the shoulder. I think that there may really be something to the "seconds" theory. Maybe we should let Harlan know and see what he says about it. I guess they can be made to work, but it's surely not the optimum condition that you could hope for. I bought an Imbel for my Imbel kit because I wanted something that would fit and work correctly. Oh well, maybe next time I'll spend the extra $38 and get a PAC Imbel receiver !!! EDIT 1/18/2003 Upon further examination with a depth micrometer, there is about .008" clearance. This should be more than adequate. The distance from the face of the action to the inside shoulder falls right in line with what others have observed it should be. bowhuntr Last edited by bowhuntrRL; January 18, 2003 at 08:19.

January 04, 2003, 01:28	#12
dougjones31 Registered FALaholic #: 6967 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 4,282	We do not have enough data to determine if the century receivers are out of spec! Lets wait on the the thread stretching theory until we have more peoples experiences...... We still have not heard from anybody about a PAC Imbel GL receiver having this problem of bottoming. Until we do, I am going to keep with the "Seconds" theory! I do not think Harlan is going to take the heat for Century......He knows that we can all make the receiver work! You get what you pay for! I always use PAC receivers from Dealers Warehouse.....unless I use a Coonan! That is my next build! __________________ "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future." --Adolf Hitler, 1935 Last edited by dougjones31; January 04, 2003 at 01:32.

January 04, 2003, 02:09	#13
goose Registered Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 2267 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Southern CA Posts: 550	Well I was timing a PAC GL dated 2001. I had two different Imbel barrels. One of the barrels bottomed out at about 10:00 and was hitting the chamber face. The other timed at 11:00 and fit like they show on TV. There seems to be a lot of years and or torque put on these kits allowing for variables to come into play regarding fit. That's my theory anyway

January 04, 2003, 03:10	#14
moses One of the original 400 Contributor FALaholic #: 392 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: charlotte nc usa Posts: 5,469	I had a pac gear logo that a Izzy HB bottomed out on.

January 04, 2003, 07:34	#15
twistgrip1 Registered FALaholic #: 7963 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 23	I have a PAC 2002 GL Imbel Receiver with a Dan's Imbel barrel. Bottoms out at 10:00. Kinda sweating my first time build with this thing. I have been reading quite a few posts about this problem and it seems to not matter whether the receivers are GL or non-GL.

January 04, 2003, 07:50	#16
twistgrip1 Registered FALaholic #: 7963 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 23	Correction to my last reply; my receiver is a FAC GL Imbel...NOT a PAC. Sorry for the brain mush.

January 04, 2003, 09:45	#17
187 Registered FALaholic #: 3967 Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,041	I have had several Century imported GL and NGL receivers and have had a few (about 10%) where the barrel bottomed out against the back of the feed ramp. I have not had any DSA, other than Century GL, Coonan, or Entreprise bottom out. I have also had quite a few builds where I ended up needing a really small size locking shoulder, like .253" or .254". Not a problem. but I just haven't seen it with other manufacturers. __________________ Magnum Gunsmithing, Ltd. Type 07 Licensed Manufacturer North Lima, OH www.magnumgunsmithing.com

January 04, 2003, 18:49	#19
old jarhead fart Registered FALaholic #: 5826 Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 35	How about emailing Imbel and asking if they sell receiver 2nds, and if so, to who, as you want to buy several? OJF MOLON LABE

January 04, 2003, 20:40	#20
GMB74 Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 7987 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vermont Posts: 319	I have one 2002 Imbel GL reciever from FAC (Century) and 3 Tapco kits, one G1 and two Imbels. The G1 barrel timed to 10:30 without bottoming. The Imbels both bottomed out way early- about 9:30-10:00. I shaved the shoulder on the G1 to time it to 11:00 and it went together fine without bottoming. It took a .260 LS. How's that for an easy first build? I have ordered Coonan recievers for the Imbel kits. Hopefully I will get a better match this way.

January 04, 2003, 21:00	#21
droog Registered FALaholic #: 6462 Join Date: May 2002 Location: n.dak. Posts: 438	My Hesse bottomed out.

January 04, 2003, 21:11	#22
droog Registered FALaholic #: 6462 Join Date: May 2002 Location: n.dak. Posts: 438	Thats half the fun to me to put these things together. I beleive they wouldnt call it gunsmithing if everything just fell together they would call it assembeling like what you do to AR-15's.

January 04, 2003, 21:16	#24
LtRiker Registered FALaholic #: 8652 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Wichita Falls, TX Posts: 444	You guys are making me nervous.... so I had to go run and measure the Izzy HB I picked up today.....809 breech to shoulder....whew NOT stretched.... __________________ go shoot something

January 04, 2003, 22:33	#25
HD99FXR3 Registered FALaholic #: 5260 Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,245	1 PAC GL, 3 DSA type1's and i barreled hatch's century GL and 2 or 3 at the build party all NGLs from century no problems. but i am of the opinion like doug that most problems of late on the files are from century NGLs

January 05, 2003, 03:23	#26
Court in Fl Curio & Relic FALaholic #: 5046 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,150	I have seen it enough that it's something I look for when installing a barrel on any receiver now. I have run in to this with Hesse and Century inch receivers and some Non Gear Logo Imbels with Imbel barrels. The Hesse receiver used a R1 barrel and the Century used a L1A1 inch barrel. With Hesse and Century receivers I expect this, but with Imbel it surprises me. I like the Non Gear Logo receivers and have built lots of them (maybe 20) with no problem. So I tend to think this new problem is with the Imbel barrels and most likely not the receivers. As I said in other posts, I grind on the inside sholder (feed ramp) to correct the problem, but I think you could also use a small belt sander and bevel the breach end of the barrel to get enough clearance. This is not a big problem, IF YOU HAVE THE TOOLS. Take Care, Court in Fl.

January 05, 2003, 09:34	#27
olephart Registered FALaholic #: 8163 Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 294	LtRiker, Thanks for measuring - I'd like to see a few more measurements so we can tell what is a "normal" range on bbls and receivers. Your measurements are pretty far off from what I have been getting (.816), but it's in a good direction. For you guys that may use the tail of a caliper to measure, make sure you hold it parallel and compensate for the amount the tail is not even with the base of the calipers. The tail of my caliper is .004 inside of the unit so it reads that much too long on all depth measurements. Stand the caliper up on a flat surface and see how far it will extend before it hits the surface. Deduct that from your measurements. If stretched threads are the problem, you will not detect this with measurement of the breech to shoulder. The entire shank will not stretch. The threads deform and get further apart than normal. They can be tightened, but will have to take up the extra distance before they get tight. The only way to tell without the proper tools is to elliminate the bbl and receiver dimensions as a problem and notice some looseness in the threads. I think we may be having 2 problems. Stretched threads and short Imbel receivers or a combination of the two. I tend to believe something is going on with the Imbel receivers because when people like Mr. Court think something is going on, it usually is. Lets measure some of those receivers!!! Untill we find some real specs or enough measurements are taken, I am going to use the following for identifying the out of spec part: Reciever face to feed ramp - .825 minimum. Barrel breech to shoulder - .819 maximum. If you have these dimensions and still hit, it's the threads. Regardless of the problem, Mr. Court's fix is the best.

January 07, 2003, 19:44	#28
old jarhead fart Registered FALaholic #: 5826 Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 35	O.K., I'v read all the posts in this thread about possible problems w/either streatched threads on the barrel or out of spec NGL Imbel receivers. I'v got a G1 kit with very nice barrel, and just eyeballing the threads, they appear to be ok. So I'm going to order a NGL recv. from FAC, and we'll see what happens. OJF MOLON LABE!!!

January 07, 2003, 20:12	#29
M1Tanker Registered FALaholic #: 8346 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ft. Hood, TX Posts: 451	Measured my Imbel Barrel at .809 and my G-1 barrel at .805. Chris

January 07, 2003, 22:22	#30
dougjones31 Registered FALaholic #: 6967 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 4,282	We need some more imput! Come on people lets have those measurements! __________________ "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future." --Adolf Hitler, 1935

January 16, 2003, 19:34	#31
GMB74 Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 7987 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vermont Posts: 319	More fuel for the fire: I recently got a Coonan (FAFAL2) reciever and a Dan's Grade III Imbel kit. The barrel hand times to 11:00 with lots of room between the end of the barrel and the feed ramp. I tried the other two Imbel barrels I have (see previous post above). They both time to 10:45-11:00. All three barrel stubs measure .810-.812 from the breechface to the barrel shoulder. Comments?

January 16, 2003, 21:08	#32
jamie930 Registered FALaholic #: 5272 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 149	Imbel gear logo 2002 CIA import on a Tapco Imbel barrel bottoming out. Tried same barrel on DC type I hand timed perfectly. Filed breech face down enough to torque up right. Headspaced with .255

January 16, 2003, 23:15	#33
ACE308 Registered FALaholic #: 8786 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: KY Posts: 7	My first build for the FAL. I used a FAC gear logo rec. G-1 barrel. Bottomed out but removed the finish on the breach and cranked that barrel to fit. Headspace? Don't know how to. Suggestions?

January 17, 2003, 08:27	#34
FALout Registered FALaholic #: 8405 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: U.S. of A. Posts: 111	This my first FAL build. I have a GL Imbel reciever, measured .816. The barrel is from a Imbel kit, it measures .817+ (not perfect all the way around, plan on putting in lathe as soon as it gets a little warming in the garage-lathe won't work, variable speed hyd drive ) Barrel just bottoms out with slight gap @ shoulder -9:30-10:00. __________________ "The vice of capitalism is that there is an unequal share of the blessings; the virtue of socialism is that there is an equal share of the misery." -Sir Winston Churchill, British statesman (1874-1965) In America, being a liberal is the same as being a traitor. They are invested in defeat. Liberal Democrats have now surpassed Burger King in serving up Woopers.

January 17, 2003, 12:38	#36
Timber Wolf Registered FALaholic #: 805 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Southern U.S. Posts: 2,801	Had one bottoming out experience with an Imbel receiver but I can not remember what kind as it has been a while. Could have been a FAC Gear Logo or a FAC "Inch" Imbel, I was building on both at the time. A couple of strokes with the dremal inside the receiver cleaned it right up as I did not need to take much off. I have an Imbel, several Entreprise type 3s, a WAC, and a Century Inch "unibrow" along with a few Imbel barrels I will try and measure this weekend. __________________ First rule of gun fighting: "have a gun!" "Guns don't kill people. Daddys with good looking daughters do!"

January 18, 2003, 08:34	#37
bowhuntrRL Registered FALaholic #: 4782 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: North Brookfield Posts: 125	Imbel barrel .816"-.817" FAC Imbel GL receiver .823"-.824" I should add, it hand times to about 10:30-10:45 Last edited by bowhuntrRL; January 18, 2003 at 11:14.