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Old December 24, 2017, 12:54   #1
V guy
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P-38

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ZkZu_pbWM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xubCaOlHJOE&t=16s


Two great videos in HD, of P-38's.
You just don't get to see them very often.
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Old December 24, 2017, 13:43   #2
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Excellent videos but I was expecting to see something about can openers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTQ7_I_5rmY
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Old December 24, 2017, 14:02   #3
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ZkZu_pbWM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xubCaOlHJOE&t=16s


Two great videos in HD, of P-38's.
You just don't get to see them very often.
You get back through WI and MN check out the Bong museum in Superior WI
They have a P38 on display, Bong was a famous P38 pilot they brought back stateside for war bond drives
He famously flew his P38 under the the Duluth lift bridge during one air show with maybe 10'+ to spare between the pylons !

My cousin who watched it as a teenager told me Bong came in full power dive in his P38. Truly a crazy assed bastard behind the stick of a great warbird.
There are some who debate whether that happened however Bong was the highest rated combat ace during the War with 40 confirmed kills in his P38 "Marge" he named after the wife unit and won the Congressional Medal of Honor.

The Bong museum is spendy, like twenty admission fee however that is like three or four beers in Duluth these days versus honoring a true War hero

Read up a bit on Bong, a serious air warrior V

Seem to recall the Army Air Farce "retired" him after his 29th kill, he managed to fight it and return to Pacific combat murdering down at least 11 more Japanese pilots in Marge.

You get the chance do his museum in Superior.
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Old December 24, 2017, 14:02   #4
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They could in a pinch be.....can openers.


The “Loco Busters” of the 20th Fighter Group

http://dioramas-and-models.com/55%20...%20europe.html
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Old December 24, 2017, 14:10   #5
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Real fighters have sticks.................just sayin"
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Old December 24, 2017, 14:19   #6
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I first read about Bong in AIRWAR, by Jablonski, a big aviation book back in the 1970's.

A great story about the competition between Bong and other Aces to be "the king", in its pages.

Truly sad, that an early jet snuffed him out on takeoff. He could have been something else again, in Korea.

The way that pilot is sawing away at the wheel in his P-38, reminds me of the steering on early Mustangs....the road going kind!
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Old December 24, 2017, 14:29   #7
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Quote:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ZkZu_pbWM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xubCaOlHJOE&t=16s


Two great videos in HD, of P-38's.
You just don't get to see them very often.
Great videos, "Tangerine" in the second video is being flown by a friend of mine
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Old December 24, 2017, 16:58   #8
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Bong got 40 and the next highest was McQuire with 38
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Old December 24, 2017, 17:52   #9
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Bong got 40 and the next highest was McQuire with 38
Bong was a true badass reckless shit. Another cousin went to school with him, claimed he was a "troublemaker" who only ended up in the AAC after Wisconsin Courts sending him there, yeah a minor violent criminal youth type.

He ended up Top Gun during WWII
these days we would send his type up to the State Pen

That cousin claimed he was busted over a few rural bar robberies before he was sentenced to serve.
Had a bunch of family around Duluth & Superior back then
Half those boys volunteered and are in graves overseas.

Again, you guys have a chance do the Bong Museum in Superior
they deserve our support.
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Old December 24, 2017, 18:03   #10
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I first read about Bong in AIRWAR, by Jablonski, a big aviation book back in the 1970's.

A great story about the competition between Bong and other Aces to be "the king", in its pages.

Truly sad, that an early jet snuffed him out on takeoff. He could have been something else again, in Korea.

The way that pilot is sawing away at the wheel in his P-38, reminds me of the steering on early Mustangs....the road going kind!
yeah the P80 ? test went badly for him V
Cousin said he was a hard drinker but loved the little woman marge.
never turned any fight down either.

Bunch of family lore about Bong, mostly about what a drunken idiot he often was. That said, he was the best of the best during the war doing real dog fights. No fire and forget rockets, straight airborne gun fighting.
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Old December 24, 2017, 19:17   #11
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Excellent videos but I was expecting to see something about can openers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTQ7_I_5rmY
Or Walthers
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Old December 24, 2017, 19:46   #12
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Dad was pretty impressed with the P-38. He was Army in the Philippines in WWII and told me he thought upon seeing the first P-38 flying in to land that “the war is over, when the japs see that evil sombeech they will give up”.
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Old December 24, 2017, 20:35   #13
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Is Bong's museum anywhere near Elkhart Lake, or up near LaCrosse?
Have to hit that one too, before I auger in.
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Old December 24, 2017, 21:18   #14
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Is Bong's museum anywhere near Elkhart Lake, or up near LaCrosse?
Have to hit that one too, before I auger in.
No V, way north of that in Superior just South of the Bong bridge from Duluth MN on Lake Superior.

Some great museums in the local area, currently the Train museum has the Lincoln Death Car on loan that was used to tour his embalmed body post death. Bunch of crap there in the County Museum.

Motels are far cheaper in Superior, figure on registering way ahead though. Tourist season rates get way stupid, fall to spring you can get a decent motel in Superior WI for $60. Go into Duluth, over a $100 a night even in winter.
Summer, try over $200

Superior Inn is pretty cheap, it's at the base of the Bong bridge, next door to the Hammond Steakhouse. That's an old institution in that city, great eats.
They also have a division of the CAF rebuilding warbirds at the old Air Guard base in Duluth...one of the longest strips in America, SR71 qualified back in the day for emergency landings. A few happened.

As long as you are in the region there is a great static display outside the gates at the Emerado AFB just outside Grand Forks ND
Head south, there is a massive air museum now in Fargo ND that includes a Japanese Zero

I'd head up through Oshkosh WI before Superior. HUGE air museum there, you can still get rides on one of the last Ford Trimotors there
then do Supeior's Bong museum then west on 2 to GF to see Emerado then south on 29 to Fargo. There is more in the Twin Cities but even better in Hastings NB's museums
Trust me, shit will boggle your mind buddy.
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Old December 25, 2017, 14:26   #15
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40 was just warming up for these fellas

The Germans called him Bubi, but the Soviets called him the Black Devil. He was the highest scoring pilot fighter ace in the history of aerial warfare. He was only 20 years old, when he engaged in combat, in 1942, immediately becoming one of the best. Hartmann downed 345 Soviet aircraft and 7 American. He was loved and respected among his fellow-Luftwaffe pilots and Gerhard Barkhorn even served as best man on Hartmann’s wedding.

Hartmann was awarded the Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords and Diamonds for his immaculate record. Of all of his accomplishments, the one that he was most proud of was the fact that he had never lost a wingman.
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Old December 25, 2017, 15:37   #16
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Hand salute to Jeff Ethell.........Outstanding pilot and real friend.
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Old December 25, 2017, 16:30   #17
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^^^^ who died in a P-38 and he was friend of mine.
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Old December 25, 2017, 18:58   #18
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Bong was serving as a test pilot in California when he was killed in the crash of a Bell P-59 jet fighter prototype. Sad ending for a man of his accomplishments....

And so it goes.


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Old December 25, 2017, 19:11   #19
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its was a P-80 from Burbank airport, Bell's are made on the east coast
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Old December 25, 2017, 20:35   #20
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40 was just warming up for these fellas

The Germans called him Bubi, but the Soviets called him the Black Devil. He was the highest scoring pilot fighter ace in the history of aerial warfare. He was only 20 years old, when he engaged in combat, in 1942, immediately becoming one of the best. Hartmann downed 345 Soviet aircraft and 7 American. He was loved and respected among his fellow-Luftwaffe pilots and Gerhard Barkhorn even served as best man on Hartmann’s wedding.

Hartmann was awarded the Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords and Diamonds for his immaculate record. Of all of his accomplishments, the one that he was most proud of was the fact that he had never lost a wingman.
Erich Hartmann was even at his young age a master of his trade, and his record remains unequaled. He was not quite as illustrious as H.J. Marseille, but both were professionals.

The same goes for Hans Ulrich Rudel, nicknamed quite often "Stuka-Rudel", who was an expert on flying the Ju-87 Stuka and later the "Kanonenvogel" (cannonbird). The Russians also put a bounty on his head.

On the ground there were tank aces like Michael Wittmann and Otto Carius.


The other thing was, why guys like Hartmann scored that high, was that on the Eastern Front there was a ultra target-rich environment, and most of the planes and pilots that the Russians sent up were inferior.
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Old December 25, 2017, 20:39   #21
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An escort of P-38s

AN ESCORT OF P-38S

Author Unverified: George A. Evans or Robert H. Bryson or Everett 'Doc' Price.

Oh, Hedy Lamar is a beautiful gal, Madeline Carroll is too.
But you’ll find if you query a much different theory
amongst any bomber crew

That the loveliest thing of which one can sing
This side of the heavenly gates
Is no blonde or brunette of the Hollywood set
But an escort of P-38s

In all the days past when the tables were massed
with glasses of scotch and champagne
It’s quite true that the sight was a thing to delight
us intent on feeling no pain.

But no longer the same nowadays in this game
as we sail onto the missing state
Take your sparkling wine but always make mine
An escort of P-38s.

Byron, Shelley and Keats ran each other dead heats
describing the views from the hills
Of the valleys in May where the winds gently sway
an army of bright daffodils
Take your daffodils Byron, the wild flowers Shelley,
yours is the myrtle, friend Keats
Just preserve me those cuties, all-American beauties
An escort of P-38s.

Sure we’re braver than hell on the ground all is well,
in the air it’s a much different story.
As we sweat out our track through the fighters and flak
we’re willing to split up the glory.

Well, they wouldn’t reject us so heaven protect us
until all this shootin’ abates
Give us courage to fight ’em and another small item
An escort of P-38s.
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Old December 25, 2017, 22:19   #22
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^^^^ who died in a P-38 and he was friend of mine.
I remember that he was flying the sister ship to Tangerine in the Erickson collection....
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Old December 26, 2017, 00:04   #23
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I also had lunch with Rex Barber here in Vancouver.
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Old December 26, 2017, 08:41   #24
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The Lightning earned its good rep in the PTO (and to a lesser degree in the MTO ), and deservedly so, but it did not do very well in the ETO and was substantially phased out with the introduction of the P51. Turbocharger/intercooler problems at the extremely low temperatures at ETO high altitudes consistently caused major performance and reliability issues.

As I think I mentioned in another thread, I had an uncle who flew all three major USAAF fighters, and I can remember him saying "P38 over water, P47 for ground attack, P51 for air combat". He had two kills in a 38 but it wasn't his favorite. He also got a little time in a Spit MkIX and said it was probably the best pure dogfighter of the bunch, but with short legs it just wasn't very useful. He also said it didn't feel as rugged, but by that point he was in P47s, so ANYTHING else would have seemed flimsy !!!! He was a pretty big guy so I imagine the Spit felt like a cramped kiddy car to him.

Jeff Ethell did a video series on a lot of WW2 a/c, well worth watching if you can find the old tapes ( may have been put on DVD by now ? ). He was one of those guys who was very engaging to watch, really took you inside the cockpit with him. He also did a stint at the Smithsonian and amassed a huge personal collection of rare color photographs of the air war, published in several books which are truly excellent and WELL worth owning. IIRC, his family recently sold the photo collection, but I don't know where it went.
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Old December 26, 2017, 08:50   #25
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Once designated to be a jet fighter base, Richard Bong State Recreation Area is fittingly named after Major Richard I. Bong, a popular WI native who was America's leading air ace during World War II. The air base was abandoned three days before concrete was to be poured for a 12,500-foot runway. Local citizens had the foresight to protect this open space for future generations.
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/parks/name/richardbong/
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Old December 26, 2017, 15:58   #26
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Old December 26, 2017, 23:30   #27
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Stoney,

I was positive that Bong had been killed piloting a Bell P-59. So I dug out an old book printed in the early 1960's and sure enough it said that it was a P-59.

Then I googled Bong's name and the aircraft was a Lockheed P-80 Shooting Star.

Learn something new every once in a while. I'm glad to see that you corrected that mistake for me.

And so it goes.


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Old December 27, 2017, 08:28   #28
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Stoney,

I was positive that Bong had been killed piloting a Bell P-59. So I dug out an old book printed in the early 1960's and sure enough it said that it was a P-59.

Then I googled Bong's name and the aircraft was a Lockheed P-80 Shooting Star.

Learn something new every once in a while. I'm glad to see that you corrected that mistake for me.

And so it goes.


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Chuck Yeager, who is, shall we say, pretty outspoken, blamed Bong for the crash, saying he did not familiarize himself with the aircraft systems. If memory serves, the crash occurred on landing, I'm wondering if Bong goosed the throttle too rapidly and got a flameout or maybe didn't allow for spoolup time when he got a little low ? Anybody know ?
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Old December 27, 2017, 13:13   #29
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Memory sez Bong had a flame out on takeoff, Memdon't know for sure, CY is a AH
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Old December 28, 2017, 12:17   #30
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CY is a AH
A very talented AH, but still an AH.
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“I respect the government only in the sense that I respect any other dangerous predator who views me as food.”

“The consolidation of the states into one vast empire, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of ruin which has overwhelmed all that preceded it.” Robert E. Lee
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