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Old December 24, 2017, 12:26   #1
Bubacus
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ATF Bump Fire Study

Looks like the ATF is ready to get ready to open up a study on Bumpstocks and their questionnaire is going to be published on the 26th.

https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...imilar-devices

Bumpfire Rulemaking Proposal

The Department of Justice anticipates issuing a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) that would interpret the statutory definition of “machinegun” in the National Firearms Act of 1934 and Gun Control Act of 1968 to clarify whether certain devices, commonly known as “bump fire” stocks, fall within that definition. Before doing so, the Department and ATF need to gather information and comments from the public and industry regarding the nature and scope of the market for these devices.

Written comments must be postmarked and electronic comments must be submitted on or before January 25, 2018. Commenters should be aware that the electronic Federal Docket Management System will not accept comments after Midnight Eastern Standard Time on the last day of the comment period.

Manufacturers

Are you, or have you been, involved in the manufacturing of bump stock devices? If so:

1. In what part(s) of the manufacturing process, are/were you involved?

2. In what calendar years are/were you involved in the manufacturing process?

3. What is the wholesale price of the bump stock devices produced by the manufacturing process with which you are involved?

4. In each calendar year in which you have operated, how many bump stock devices were produced by the manufacturing process with which you are/were involved? Of this number, how many devices were sold to (a) retailers/resellers, and (b) directly to consumers?

5. What were your approximate gross receipts for the sale of these bump stock devices in each calendar year (from 2014—present)?

6. For what use or uses have you marketed bump stock devices?

7. If ATF classified bump stock devices as “machineguns” under the Gun Control Act of 1968, as amended, and the National Firearms Act of 1934, as amended, what would you expect to be the impact on your gross receipts for calendar year 2018?

8. If ATF classified bump stock devices as “machineguns” under the Gun Control Act of 1968, as amended, and the National Firearms Act of 1934, as amended, what other economic impact would you expect (e.g., storage, unsellable inventory)?

9. What costs do you expect to be associated with the disposition of existing bump stock device inventory?

10. If ATF classified bump stock devices as “machineguns” under the Gun Control Act of 1968, as amended, and the National Firearms Act of 1934, as amended, do you believe that there would be a viable (profitable) law-enforcement and/or military market for these devices? If so, please describe that market and your reasons for believing such a viable market exists.

Retailers

Are you, or have you been, involved in the retail sale of bump stock devices? If so:

11. In what calendar years are/were you involved?

12. In each calendar year, how many bump stock devices did you sell?

13. In each calendar year, what was the average retail price of the bump stock devices you sold?Start Printed Page 60931

14. In each calendar year (from 2014—present) what were your approximate gross receipts derived from the retail sale of bump stock devices?

15. For what use or uses have you marketed bump stock devices?

16. In the 2018 calendar year, how many bump stock devices do you anticipate you will sell, assuming that such devices remain classified by ATF as an unregulated firearm part? What do you expect will be the average price at which those bump stock devices will be sold?

17. If ATF classified bump stock devices as “machineguns” under the Gun Control Act of 1968, as amended, and the National Firearms Act of 1934, as amended, what would you expect to be the impact on your costs/expenses, gross receipts for calendar year 2018?

18. If ATF classified bump stock devices as “machineguns” under the Gun Control Act of 1968, as amended, and the National Firearms Act of 1934, as amended, what other economic impact would you expect (e.g., storage, unsellable inventory)?

19. What costs do you expect to be associated with the disposition of existing bump stock device inventory?

20. If ATF classified bump stock devices as “machineguns” under the Gun Control Act of 1968, as amended, and the National Firearms Act of 1934, as amended, do you believe that there would be a viable (profitable) law-enforcement and/or military market for these devices? If so, please describe that market and your reasons for believing such a viable market exists.

Consumers

21. In your experience, where have you seen these devices for sale and which of these has been the most common outlet from which consumers have purchased these devices (e.g., brick and mortar retail stores; online vendors; gun shows or similar events; or private sales between individuals)?

22. Based on your experience or observations, what is (or has been) the price range for these devices?

23. For what purposes are the bump stock devices used or advertised?
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Old December 24, 2017, 12:34   #2
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BS. I'm starting to really wonder if the LV shooter actually used one. It would take a helluva lot of practice not to mention the wear and tear on your finger to dump 1000 rounds in 10 minutes.
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Old December 24, 2017, 13:37   #3
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Well,

It would be easy Id bet if you had two quality rifles and ten loaded Beta mags. With 30 rd mags I think it might be a challenge. It would be an interesting test.

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Old December 24, 2017, 15:59   #4
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Devil is in the detail of questions being asked.

ATFE wants nothing to do with regulating Slide Fire stocks
They know they don't have any authority to do so but under pressure by Lefty Republicans and Democrats are going to do a very intensive study on them to pacify retards and wait for it all to blow over.

ATFE is NOT a workaround nor do they want to be seen as one. Progs want these banned it will need to be via Congress, not regulatory fiat.

I have been in the biz for decades now, never ever seen such an intensive study out of BATF or ATFE. Thats' a clear sign they are not at all interested in reversing themselves again, particularly under pressure by anyone other than the AG or President.

Schumer and Feinstein can pressure them somewhat but they are the minority party
Repugs can pressure too
They need to change the law though if they want them gone

Bloomberg, the Brain dead bitch in AZ, the media ?
nope, they are totally without power to effect any change currently at the National level.

Understand ATFE has evolved a great deal, frankly they are sick of being painted as bad guys and shockingly during Obama's years seemly have became quite pro RKBA in many rulings.
Stupidity reigned under GW in the Bureau. Very little under Obama. He went after RKBA through the State Dept and other avenues. Shit, these stocks were approved under Obama for G-d's sake

Same deal with pistol "braces" and other loony shit I have zero use of
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Old December 24, 2017, 17:37   #5
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None of those questions have a damned thing to do with rights.
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Old December 24, 2017, 17:59   #6
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^^^ They don't have to ^^^

Abominog-

They (the questions) don't have to.

It's all about being seen to 'do something', after every 'incident'.
And to keep incrementally increasing their power and control.
"Never let a good crisis go to waste".

Midterms are coming up. Got to shift the power base again, have to be seen as 'the party who cares'....'the party who will do something about this violence'.

Even the rinos will sell out to this mindset. Power, position, control.

NEVER seems to be any serious discussion, or investigation, of the perp's mental or medicative state. It ALWAYS will be twisted to the hardware side of things. The banners will NEVER quit.

Saw a headline going across the screen on OAN the other night, that the .gub types say it 'might take a year to release their report' on that incident.

A whole year for spin control. All they have to do is wait, pretty sure there will be at least one or two more 'incidents' before springtime rolls around.

Even if all these 'incidents' really are just loose nutbags tragically mowing folks down, it will ALWAYS be used and spun to further the agenda. No real, meaningful discussion of their medical/medication history, or if there are more folks whom .gub doesn't pass on the necessary reports on, again, for the supposedly 'holy' NICS check.

Mr and Mrs Joe Blow, finally disarmed, 'for the sake of the children', is the end goal. It may take them 20 more years...or maybe within 20 months, depending on the next 'incident'. And it seems a great portion of society is on board with this as well.

I don't trust any of the folks in any of the alphabet groups to ever do the right thing. They keep proving the distrust of them to be warranted.
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Old December 24, 2017, 18:21   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorack View Post
Well,

It would be easy Id bet if you had two quality rifles and ten loaded Beta mags. With 30 rd mags I think it might be a challenge. It would be an interesting test.

Thorack
I just can't square it that the POS could pull it off alone without a lot of practice. For you probably because your in that line of work and are probably fit. That guy was a mid sixties casino fly and chased whores. Maybe I've read too many Matt Bracken books
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Old December 24, 2017, 18:28   #8
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I'm wondering if they are going to include binary triggers, hell fire trigger systems, or other types of mods. I've got 2 Hell fires I bought for $10 each in NOS condition just to see what they were and how they worked. I've never mounted them but I have played with them.

Besides, I can pull the trigger at a rate that sounds close to full auto but with a great degree of accuracy. I was accused of firing full auto at a range once and the county sheriffs office was called on me. It didn't work though because my buddy that was shooting with me that day was a deputy. He just called in and the sheriffs office just ignored the call.

I don't have a personal need or desire to own a bump stock or see a reasonable use for one of them except for having fun dumping mags. But it is not my place or anyone else’s place to limit someone else's rights or pleasure. If you can afford the ammo then blast away!
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Old December 24, 2017, 19:12   #9
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The ATF has already decided what they're going to do. All this inquiry stuff is just smoke and mirrors, just like 41P

How far will they go is the question. I bet the wording will be vague enough to include binaries and everything else. The ATF won't move on anything other than bump stocks. They'll get that ban/re-classsification, they'll wait until there's a liberal President to get everything else.
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Old December 24, 2017, 22:11   #10
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Old December 25, 2017, 03:05   #11
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I just can't square it that the POS could pull it off alone without a lot of practice. For you probably because your in that line of work and are probably fit. That guy was a mid sixties casino fly and chased whores.
More information would help.

Well, suppose the slidefire stocks were modified.

-IF the stocks were changed to make them easier to operate, a neophyte could learn to use them with much less training time. It may also explain the bipods on so many of the rifles.

I would assume he had help leading up to the event. The question is: What latent evidence have they found that could prove or disprove the idea?
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Old December 25, 2017, 07:35   #12
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None of those questions have a damned thing to do with rights.
Nor do they address the fact of multiple shooters in Vegas.But that is the entire point,isn't it. More blaming inanimate objects for the actions of people.
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Old December 25, 2017, 08:54   #13
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Well, suppose the slidefire stocks were modified.

-IF the stocks were changed to make them easier to operate, a neophyte could learn to use them with much less training time. It may also explain the bipods on so many of the rifles.
Well the bipod thing has always sorta made me question as to how he perched it on a table. The hole in the window is high above the floor in the room.
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Old December 25, 2017, 12:17   #14
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If.....they declare them to be machine guns they have to be destroyed.
Not sure if they have to compensate the owners that turn them in or not
but possession would certainly be a problem.

The list of owners would be thing the ATF wants.
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Old December 27, 2017, 15:04   #15
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If.....they declare them to be machine guns they have to be destroyed.
Not sure if they have to compensate the owners that turn them in or not
but possession would certainly be a problem.

The list of owners would be thing the ATF wants.
regulatory authority over guns is based on interstate commerce clause and tax rules. there has to be an economic angle to make the expansion of GCA68 legal. this is why the financial questions are being asked. it's just good form. where it gets sticky is in the home-made stuff.
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Old December 27, 2017, 19:20   #16
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If.....they declare them to be machine guns they have to be destroyed.
Not sure if they have to compensate the owners that turn them in or not
but possession would certainly be a problem.

The list of owners would be thing the ATF wants.
Oh Hell NO

ATFE doesn't want this, it's a total nightmare to enforce.
Look, thousands and thousands of these things have been sold cash and carry at shows, stores and even privately here at the Files.

In the past when ATFE changed their collective panties regarding parts sets they sent out naughty letters to the folks who ordered things from vendors. Been through a bit of that myself but everything had already been resold at shows, in some cases years before

So how do they do this ?
They know this one is strictly stuck on stupid

Hi Mr. Cabelas manager, we are from the government and need the names of everyone you sold a prohibited stock to !

just how does that work ?

Better yet Gander Mountain carried them as well
Shit, they are out of business

starting to absorb why ATFE has zero interest in this shit yet folks ?
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Old December 27, 2017, 19:36   #17
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Originally Posted by 2barearms View Post
If.....they declare them to be machine guns they have to be destroyed.
Not sure if they have to compensate the owners that turn them in or not
but possession would certainly be a problem.

The list of owners would be thing the ATF wants.
Or they will be added to the NFA.
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