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Old December 16, 2017, 08:41   #1
0302
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savage muzzle loaders done blowed up?

https://apnews.com/adbc910fa9064d4fbdeab57f5157d861

i think loading muzzle loaders with smokeless is a little iffy but looks like some fingers are missing....
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Old December 16, 2017, 10:22   #2
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Savage like Remington has only been able to test a few of the barrels and in all cases they have found excessive high pressures, Remington found someone had been at the triggers. Sometimes it takes many shots to have fatigue burst a barrel. Powders have changed over the years so what was safe in 2001 may not be safe today. And many think if it is to be 43 grains then 45 is close enough. I am not defending Savage and I do not like the new inline MLs. For me if you are calling it a ML it needs a rock in the hammer.
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Old December 16, 2017, 11:20   #3
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If Savage was smart, they'd get out ahead of this and offer to buy their muzzle loaders back or recall them and change out the barrels.

Remington finally recalled and updated their triggers after it cost them several million dollars in lawsuit expenses.
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Old December 16, 2017, 12:55   #4
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A lot of variables. What exactly was it loaded with,and how much? What projectiles? We see a photo of the hand,but not the barrel. This makes us cringe and have sympathy for the guy. Just saying," loaded it just like he always did" does not equate to he loaded it correctly,or within its specifications. Strange we don't hear about Savage centerfire bolt guns blowing hands off,even with much higher pressures.
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Old December 17, 2017, 09:09   #5
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Well,
Muzzleloader hunting seasons were supposed to make the hunt more challenging, using a "primitive" firearm. IMHO, the modern inlines are cheating.
I'll stick with my '80's CVH .50 cal Mountain rifle, with real BP. Round ball only, accurate to minute of deer out to 75 yards. No, I don't dress up in a coonskin cap and buckskins...
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Old December 18, 2017, 12:49   #6
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I find it hard to believe that 43 grains of blackpowder blew up a 45 or 50 cal rifle barrel.

I regularly load 45 colt blackpowder loads with 37-40 grains in my pistols, and my 45-70 rifles with 55-70 grains.
Most BP shooters use a sabot and a .45 or .44 bullet and what ever load of bp--60 grains or so.

43 grains of BP? BS!!

Now using 43 grains of 4064 or 4895 or 3031, Yep, very possible, but unlikely, as that is about safe in a 45-70 case too.

I suspect that these assholes loaded wild loads, (bp should still be safe with 45-90 and 45-110 loads), or a duplex load, with bullseye and bp or equivalent, way over pressure.

Something ain't true in those stories of what blew them up. Liars abound.

Last edited by V guy; December 18, 2017 at 23:00.
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Old December 18, 2017, 13:00   #7
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If Savage was smart, they'd get out ahead of this and offer to buy their muzzle loaders back or recall them and change out the barrels.

Remington finally recalled and updated their triggers after it cost them several million dollars in lawsuit expenses.
Yeah, that's what they did all right...

Forrest

Last edited by ftierson; December 18, 2017 at 13:53. Reason: added :rolleyes: to clarify meaning...
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Old December 18, 2017, 13:08   #8
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Honest question here. What's the appeal of a muzzle loader? More dangerous, less performance more pain to clean can't unload it easily. Modern scopes muzzle loaders can easily hit deer at 200 yards so it's not like it's any more sporting than using a 30-06.
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Old December 18, 2017, 18:21   #9
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Honest question here. What's the appeal of a muzzle loader? More dangerous, less performance more pain to clean can't unload it easily. Modern scopes muzzle loaders can easily hit deer at 200 yards so it's not like it's any more sporting than using a 30-06.
Extra seasons to hunt, extra tags to fill
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Old December 18, 2017, 19:46   #10
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Don't forget extra challenge. One shot with slim chance of a reload (although I know it has happened).
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Old December 19, 2017, 11:41   #11
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Honest question here. What's the appeal of a muzzle loader? More dangerous, less performance more pain to clean can't unload it easily. Modern scopes muzzle loaders can easily hit deer at 200 yards so it's not like it's any more sporting than using a 30-06.
There is the nostalgia factor which is what I like about black powder rifles and pistols. My go to black powder rifle is a custom built flinch lock Lyman Trade Rifle in .54 caliber 1-66 twist built by a fellow by the name of Vernan Forns out of Montana. To complement it I also have a flint lock pistol also custom built in .54 caliber. I was into the fur trapper days of the early 1800s for a while. I also have a cap lock T.C. Hawkin in .50 that I have not shot yet, it has been a few years since I bought it at a fun show. One just like it I had before shot extremely well even with the 1-48 twist with round ball.
I have always liked Black Powder pistols and rifles, not so much cartridge Black Powder due to smokeless being better for this application in my opinion. There is something special about rocks, steel, Black Powder and lead. I only shoot round ball in muzzle loading rifles with pillow ticking patches so my experience is limited to this. Modern day in line rifles just don’t do much for me. Nothing like teaching yourself to shoot a flint lock rifle well. To learn to hold your point of aim while the process of click snap whoosh boom goes on inches in front of your face takes time and practice. Just properly loading the things so all goes as desired is a learning process, sucks ass when there is no boom. You have one shot so better make it count.
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Old December 19, 2017, 14:37   #12
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The ignition rate of inlines is so much better than side locks,because you aren't turning two corners in order to light your powder.The caps energy goes straight into the powder or pellet charge. I still do like shooting side locks,but for deer hunting,I use a TC Black Diamond. 2 pellets of pyrodex,not 3. I think it is like a 100-120 grain of BP equivalent. Side locks,I always use BP.
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Old December 19, 2017, 17:32   #13
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Originally Posted by Falfan2017 View Post
Honest question here. What's the appeal of a muzzle loader? More dangerous, less performance more pain to clean can't unload it easily. Modern scopes muzzle loaders can easily hit deer at 200 yards so it's not like it's any more sporting than using a 30-06.
Besides what's been mentioned you can generally use them in areas restricted to shotguns with slugs.

Another variable is they allow folks prohibited by whatever from possessing a regulated firearm to still hunt in most States

They are NOT at all more "dangerous" and performance is subjective based upon the type of muzzle loader
for example a Parker Hale Henry Bored Enfield .451 slug gun is equal to a standard .45-70 load and is accurate to extreme distances, up to 1000 yards.
Try that with a 95' Marlin lever gun.
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Old December 19, 2017, 19:24   #14
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Originally Posted by Falfan2017 View Post
Honest question here. What's the appeal of a muzzle loader? More dangerous, less performance more pain to clean can't unload it easily. Modern scopes muzzle loaders can easily hit deer at 200 yards so it's not like it's any more sporting than using a 30-06.
In NM, you stand a slightly better chance of drawing a tag for a muzzle loader than you do for a modern arm. That's the only reason I'd try one. I understand and can appreciate the nostalgia thing but there's a reason why I don't take a stagecoach to the hunting fields...
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Old December 20, 2017, 07:26   #15
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Maybe the nostalgia, Maybe the extra season, Maybe the challenge, whatever the case, I like my flintlock. I also shoot competitively throughout the summer with it.
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Old December 20, 2017, 09:40   #16
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I've fired a home made flintlock and can understand the appeal of that. But modern muzzle loaders aren't much more of a challenge than a 3006
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Old December 20, 2017, 11:36   #17
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They are more of a challenge. Even a break-action 06 can probably be fired 8 or 10 aimed shots a minute. A muzzleloader,even a modern inline,you're doing well to get 2 off in a minute. The bullet drop is also more pronounced.
Me,I'm focused on that one bullet in the tube,and making it go exactly to the right spot,no second chances. Stainless has been a God-send,as it makes cleaning and rusting issues much less.
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Old December 21, 2017, 19:47   #18
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Well,
I don't dress up in a coonskin cap and buckskins...
Larry
Brother Larry, why not?

Jarhead
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