The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Weapons Discussion > Gunsmithing & Build It Yourself

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 09, 2017, 13:37   #1
hueyville
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
hueyville's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 74557
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Posts: 5,550
Melonite aka Deep Salt Bath Services

Most parts have sent out for deep salt bath/melonite treatment or any specialty coating or process went through my rifle smith because he had a volume discount from sending parts in weekly if not monthly. He retired this year and since have sent a couple parts in to different companies for NiB-X and melonite but both were kind of expensive compared to prices used to paying. Have at least half a dozen barrels want to send somewhere for melonite and more bolt carriers along with hammers for a high lubricity coating.

So many trade names and companies offering this am a bit confused in who to use. WMD is doing individual parts but charging $150 per bolt carrier group for NiB-X. Not sending $89 and $99 bolt carriers in for $150 treatment as cheaper the throw them away when worn bad enough and many rifles as have now doubt will be wearing any single one out.

Have a big pile of stainless AR 15 barrels in 5.56 and 6.8 want to give a deep salt bath along with pair of stainless fluted AR 10 barrels. These are going in binary trigger, suppressed abuse the crap out of and run till they glow if needed rifles. Want the bolt carriers treated for high lubricity and resistance to wear in case pick up a rifle that's light on lubrication and run it hard for however long necessary. Anyone know of a company that offers multiple processes at a reasonable rate?

If found right price might send over a dozen barrels, bolt carriers and even some receivers for proprietary coatings. 2018 Is going to be potentially biggest build year ever. Have 18 barrels in stock with five more inbound and end of year sales have not started yet. Inventory shows three dozen lowers and just got another shipment of SIG uppers yesterday to go with a couple dozen already in stock.

Have two uppers finished in nickle boron and several 4150 melonite barrels ready to go but am interested in a variety of specialty coatings to test along with proven processes. May want to send upper, lower and barrels off for same coatings though have five colors of Cerakote in house already but it's time to up my game and turn out some unique rifles.

Building a rifle now as Christmas present for my favorite blood relative. He only owns two AR's both in 300 BO and got his first suppressor. Since he is executor of my will want to pay him for his work before I die with an 18" 5.56 SPR style rifle and show him the difference between his 300's and a true 5.56 SPR at 200 yards and beyond.

Have a pair of Noveske barrels want to knock the stainless color off of but plan to Cerakote as would hate to mess with the accuracy of a $400 match barrel dunking in vat of boiling liquid salt. Also asking for recommendations others have used in stainless match barrels that does not affect internal dimensions or hardness of chamber and bore. Buy Noveske specifically for their meticulous use of Pac-Nor air gauged barrel and proprietary chamber that real operators seem to trust. So anyone that has a favorite process and vendor please share before I send a pile off to the melonite and NiB-X people.
__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
hueyville is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 09, 2017, 19:35   #2
gew98
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 32830
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: away from taxation without representation , Kentucky !.
Posts: 1,973
I might be misinformed , but I thought melonite is not as durable in the long term as chrome bore. Understand the very thin penetration depth meloniting has on barrel steel just is not deep enough to take the abuse and heat of prolonged shooting. Is the meloniting worth all the expense ?. Just asking as I'm not seeing the benefit of it myself.
__________________
The vice of capitolism is it's unequal sharing of blessings.
The Virtue of Socialism is it's equal sharing of MISERY.
Winston Churchill

1) Culture builds upon the past
2) The past always tries to control the future.
3) Our future is becoming less free
4) To build free societies you must limit control of the past.

All hail lord IMPOTUS and Darth Biden All hail.
gew98 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 09, 2017, 19:47   #3
ByronF
Registered
 
ByronF's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 630
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: PA
Posts: 4,128
Article on http://www.burlingtoneng.com/wear_resistance.html
ByronF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 09, 2017, 19:53   #4
ByronF
Registered
 
ByronF's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 630
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: PA
Posts: 4,128
Article on http://www.burlingtoneng.com/wear_resistance.html
ByronF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10, 2017, 18:51   #5
Mebsuta
Khemi, Stygia
Contributor
 
Mebsuta's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 4143
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Khemi, Stygia
Posts: 10,193
It's probably mostly hype, like all those coatings on the bcg, but it looks pretty and doesn't seem to hurt anything.
__________________
Hai
Mebsuta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 11, 2017, 14:39   #6
lew
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
lew's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 16727
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 7,948
Quote:
Originally Posted by gew98 View Post
I might be misinformed , but I thought melonite is not as durable in the long term as chrome bore.
Typically, a nitrided surface has greater wear resistance, and, since it is a surface treatment and not a plating/coating, it won't be able to chip off like chrome plating can do under sever stress (i.e. a well-used MG barrel). Plus, nitriding is way cheaper and does not affect the dimensions.
__________________
Statism: Ideas so great, they're mandatory.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." -Christopher Hitchens
lew is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 12, 2017, 03:06   #7
brunop
Refresh Key Masher
Gold Contributor
 
brunop's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 17136
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,893
Nitriding is a great exterior finish.

Nitriding is a good barrel (interior) finish.

Nitriding doesn't last as long as a quality chrome bore, but on the 'positive' side, doesn't have the imperfections and the thickness differentials inherent in adding material to the bore dimensions.

If you are shooting stainless target barrels, and won't get the barrel hot, Nitriding is a very good way to lengthen the life of the SS barrel - and as mentioned above, won't mess up the barrel dimensions as it chemically changes the surface of the existing material.

If you are shooting high round counts and are generally abusing your rifle like you're fighting for your life in Sadr City, you want a chrome bore. Full stop. End of story.

The heat of a hot barrel will destroy the nitriding, and then you've got nothing.
__________________
"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
brunop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 12, 2017, 14:22   #8
jhend170
Registered
Contributor
 
jhend170's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 76477
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,645
For salt-bath nitrocarborizing look up a company in Chappell Hill, Texas called Houston Unlimited. They deal mostly with the oil and gas folks treating their equipment (they do BIG stuff) but will do just about anything. You'll pay for the first 150lbs if memory serves, but you can get as many pieces done as you want starting there, and I think that runs about $1 a lb. They are NOT, however, an FFL holder, so they won't do your receivers, but will do anything else you send them, including any stainless or bare steel tools or whatever else you'd like treated.

I did some environmental work for them some years ago, got to know the (then) manager of the place. Traded 2 cases of beer for him treating my entire Remmy 700, had every piece that wasn't a spring treated. They gun has the smoothest trigger, is stupid easy to clean, and the bore looks new, despite something near 1k rounds of .270WSM.

Yes, I swear by Meloniting/Tenifer/Nitrocarborizing/QPQ or whatever name you want to hang on it this week.

http://www.houstonunlimitedinc.com/nitriding.aspx

If you don't have that much I'd be willing to work a deal where we can combine weight and split the costs. I have quite a few barrels and a few other things I'd like treated. Maybe a few folks want to get together and get some stuff done? I think I want to do ALL my pistol barrels, a couple of AR barrels, maybe a couple of other things. If anyone is interested I can get better updated deets on minimum weights and costs. Let me know, I'm willing to be point man since they're about 45 min NW of me.

Edit: Contacted them, looks like $150, +$15 environmental fee will get 156lbs of whatever you want treated. Anyone in?

Last edited by jhend170; December 12, 2017 at 17:14.
jhend170 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 15, 2017, 05:57   #9
hueyville
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
hueyville's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 74557
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Posts: 5,550
I am in if anyone wants to split a load. Can probably come up with 50 pounds of barrels and bolt carriers. If deep salt bath coating was hype nearly every piece of an oil drilling rig would not go for a bath and most hardware used in highly corrosive environments with it. Been noticing lots of gears and other parts for racing applications are deep salt bath treated. It's the toughest treatment I have found that has no dimensional change. Have at least half dozen stainless barrels, couple of 4130/4150 and tons of bolt carriers, can always through other random parts in to raise weight. I like using as many melonite parts as possible then put Cerakote finish on exterior parts to get all colors matched up for a nice build.

http://heatbath.com/2012/06/the-basi...lt-quenchants/

http://heatbath.com/2012/06/salt-bath-quenching/

We have one user that seems to doubt a lot of stuff, do some research before commenting and looking uninformed. I used cryofreezing to stabilize and reduce stresses while hardening barrels before deep salt bath process became commonly available. If it didn't work FN and Smith & Wesson would not have added in-house deep salt equipment as it is highly expensive and why I used to buy Smith M&P 15's to steal the barrels or run as preferred factory build for years. Lucky Gunner did a test where deep salt treated barrels outlasted standard finishes 3:1 and chrome plating as well. Ran barrels hard as could for days and after 20,000 rounds they sectioned a Smith barrel to discover was still in spec.No other process was as tough.
__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
hueyville is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 15, 2017, 08:41   #10
jhend170
Registered
Contributor
 
jhend170's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 76477
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,645
Around 50lbs is about where I am as well. If anyone else wants to come up with another 50ish lbs we'll be in at about $55 each, but get a bunch of stuff treated. If we even went over a hair I can't see it being that much more since it works out to about that $1 a lb.

So, other than the naysayers (or maybe ESPECIALLY the naysayers!) is anyone else interested? Drop a line here, get the stuff shipped to me (a 1 rate package is probably the smartest way), and your portion of the costs, and all I'll need after is your shipping costs back to you. Just let me know and we'll get a "group buy" together.

Huey, if no one else jumps in I'm fine doing 50/50. Well worth the wear resistance and ease of cleaning on as many of my guns as I can.
jhend170 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 15, 2017, 11:33   #11
hueyville
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
hueyville's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 74557
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Posts: 5,550
I'll do 50/50 if nobody else wants in and throw some non firearms items in. Have some tools and machine parts could have treated. Agree, a naysayer should at least send two identical barrels and then run side by side. That is what has me on this bandwagon. Have a pair of identical 22 Nosler AR barrels in stainless that supposidly have a 1,000 round throat life. Want to deep salt bath one and leave other stainless to run side by side using same ammo to measure erosion. It's the overbore cartidges find if coatings or other services help. Found out with 7mm Practical that if had a barrel micro polished internally by BlackStar (not available anymore as not enough business to support costs) then cryofreezing a throat lasted another 500 rounds. With a 700 to 1,000 round throat life adding 500 rounds before accuracy falls off was huge on the big guns.

Have tried services that worked and others that didn't. Can't send precise match barrels in for chrome plating. Changes the dimensions and is not consistent thickness from end to end. When playing with tenths of an inch between a good shooting rifle and bad, everything matters. A tenth at 100 yards can open up dramatically at 600 yards. When working with rimfire and looking for sub MOA at 100 yards need all the tricks and a coating that reduces cleaning requirements is a big deal as every rod passed down the bore can cause wear and bump crown or throat.

Also have a 4150 AR 10 barrel coming that need treated as not available in melonite. It's going on a purpose built AR 10 that will have a binary trigger and beta mags for use as suppressive fire weapon. Will have a suppressor as well so need all the heat and erosion resistance can get. A big lot of pieces will be good. Still have five of the Palmetto 18" Wylde barrels picked up in 2015 left and would like to treat them. If it goes south will be thousands of dollars in parts ruined but believe in it that much plus if they treated a rifle of yours with no issues then they must understand not warping tubes.

Now I need to figure out what all parts and alloys will take a dunk in molten salt. I know steel fasteners like it and can always add some tower bolts in the pile. Nothing worse than rusty tower bolts when wrenching at top of towers.
__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
hueyville is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 15, 2017, 11:53   #12
jhend170
Registered
Contributor
 
jhend170's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 76477
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,645
My convincing came in the form of my .270 WSM. Wish I had a way to get a good chamber pic after nearly 1000 rds of a pretty hot load.

Also, since I did some work for these guys, I had to study the chemistry and physics behind the process, and what the final product was. I was convinced whole heartedly.

I figure lets give it a couple of weeks, say to the new year, and see if anyone else wants in, even on a smaller basis. I can weigh everything and pro-rate it for all interested.

As for what can be treated... carbon steels and stainless steels. Can't be previously plated with something. I believe previously parked is fine as they blast the surfaces when necessary anyway, but no galvanized or non-steels.
jhend170 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 15, 2017, 22:11   #13
hueyville
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
hueyville's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 74557
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Posts: 5,550
Gathering and shipping now would be almost stupid. I can at least start choosing items as trip across them and start a box so will be ready. Actually wondering about a sending a NOS Brit L1a1 barrel and some of the other larger chunks that go with it. Anyone else that wants in should jump on a group bath as sending an individual part becomes expensive from what have found thus far. Sure if we get more than their minimum it won't get refused.
__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
hueyville is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 17, 2017, 02:45   #14
TerryN
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 55
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Yuma, AZ
Posts: 1,827
If I was back in the States, I'd be all over this! Unfortunately, I'm not.
__________________
#Boycott YouTube
TerryN is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 17, 2017, 08:18   #15
raubvogel
Registered
Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 64403
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,889
jhend170, I too might be interested. Step 1 would be to start gathering the crap to send.
__________________
All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power
It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross
That poop is priceless. MFC
raubvogel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 17, 2017, 20:08   #16
hueyville
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
hueyville's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 74557
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Foothills of the Blueridge Mountains
Posts: 5,550
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryN View Post
If I was back in the States, I'd be all over this! Unfortunately, I'm not.
How long before your back? None of the parts I am sending are mission critical to be done on a deadline? Unsure if jhend170 has any time constraints.
__________________
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3 G.W.T.
"If it is worth doing once...it's worth doing it a few more times to get it right." Stimpsonjcat
hueyville is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 18, 2017, 10:10   #17
jhend170
Registered
Contributor
 
jhend170's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 76477
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by hueyville View Post
How long before your back? None of the parts I am sending are mission critical to be done on a deadline? Unsure if jhend170 has any time constraints.
I don't. I've been planning to do this for months, but the "round tuit" hadn't made it into my possession with the remodel going on and things a real PITA to get to and around at the moment. So long as nobody interested is on a tight timing schedule I'd think it best to wait until the Christmas shipping (and returns!) season is over, so maybe a month from now. My birthday is the 25th of Jan, I'll likely take a few days off around that to celebrate being me! With that I can run the stuff out there, maybe late the week of the 21st...
jhend170 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 18, 2017, 10:28   #18
jhend170
Registered
Contributor
 
jhend170's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 76477
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,645
Should add that everything needs to be down to it's individual parts. Not good to do AR barrels with the extensions already installed, barrels with gas blocks on them, whatever. If the barrel and/or chamber is chrome lined that will be a no-no as well.

Additionally, if there are any modifications you intend to make like polishing feed ramps, reshaping something, or whatever, do so BEFORE the treatment. This takes you from 35-40 Rockwell to 70+. If you have barrel you intend to have done I'd recommend breaking it in or lapping it beforehand as well. This surface just doesn't wear.

Also, no springs. Only want to do solid parts. I will say they did all the small parts to my trigger group for my Rem 700 and it is SWEET. Thinking about pulling the group out of the FAL and having it done to see what it might do. Absolutely will not hurt it, but as slick as the surface gets might make for a better trigger. If they'd had the ability to handle receivers last year my entire Izzy would have gotten the treatment.
jhend170 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 23, 2017, 14:04   #19
ByronF
Registered
 
ByronF's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 630
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: PA
Posts: 4,128
GE pays good money to have locomotive piston crowns and connecting rods melonited. Have been doing so for several decades. If it didn't matter we'd have cut that considerable expense a long time ago.
ByronF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 23, 2017, 15:19   #20
John A
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 73828
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NOT california
Posts: 999
I would really like to have a near complete NPAP AK and Fal melonited.

Barreled receiver, piston, bolts on both.

Cost is too prohibitive though. I've checked around at some of the major companies that do that and they want almost as much to do the treating as the gun costed.

If chrome lined barrel is a no-go, the fal would be out since it is a pre-ban surplus gun.

What about the barreled receiver AK, bolt, and piston?
John A is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 23, 2017, 22:27   #21
ByronF
Registered
 
ByronF's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 630
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: PA
Posts: 4,128
I don't think you'd want to melonite assembled barreled action. Or even an AK with riveted in trunions. You want to get the salts out of there. We learned that the hard way when salts remained in threaded holes that hold the aluminum piston skirts to the melonited steel crowns. Cracks propagated from the threaded joints. Changed out a LOT of pistons. Very expensive. That was probably 20 years ago. Now we drill and tap after melonite. Hard on tooling but safer.
ByronF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 23, 2017, 23:01   #22
Trypcil
Curio & Relic
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 63101
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 4,664
There is also the notion of lapping a barrel to remove or minimise bore burrs - the meloniting process will harden everything - affecting accuracy! It seems there is quite the interest in Meloniting after "Crocs" Rifle made the headlines - I hear WMD in Florida will melonite, just saying.
__________________
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled!" -- Mark Twain

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." -- Voltaire

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
Trypcil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 23, 2017, 23:23   #23
jhend170
Registered
Contributor
 
jhend170's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 76477
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,645
Yep... you want everything to it's lowest denominator. Differing steels can change sizes at differing rates as well so you run the risk of damage if anything is assembled.

If we're paying by the pound though feel free to send whatever you like.

For me though Croc had nothing to do with my thoughts. If anything he's bastardizing the process with bull$#!+ and creating false expectations for what it can actually do. This is why folks question such things because of dumbasses like him.
jhend170 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 23, 2017, 23:37   #24
Trypcil
Curio & Relic
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 63101
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: GA
Posts: 4,664
I have a SS Fal barrel that needs the gas port drilled, the gas block fitted and removed before I can send it off for treatment - since its SS, it likely will need a modified Nitriding of some sorts, I'm gathering - so not applicable here, I will give WMD a call and let it be known as to SS meloniting techniques - unless anyone knows specifics prior.
__________________
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled!" -- Mark Twain

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." -- Voltaire

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
Trypcil is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 25, 2017, 08:05   #25
raubvogel
Registered
Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 64403
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,889
I too have been wanting to try out meloniting way before I even knew who this crock guy was. For instance, would it make the bolt stop in a C96 last? If so, would I also need to melonite the barrel assembly so it will not get deformed? What about the SVT40 barrel I have somewhere here? It i snot like there are aftermarket ones being made.

Since I was talking about barrels, if you have a newly made one, say, CETME-something, how would you deburr it without slapping it to a rifle and shooting it? Or mount it to the trunnion drilling but not installing barrel pin, shoot it, and then take it off?
__________________
All I'm really asking for here is a knife that will not jam and a unicorn that doesn't need sharpening. Will_Power
It's been my experience that all you really need to harvest a deer is a car. They come right through the windshield just fine. 357ross
That poop is priceless. MFC
raubvogel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 25, 2017, 10:05   #26
hardheaded
Member
Silver Contributor
 
hardheaded's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 27964
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 487
Additionally, if there are any modifications you intend to make like polishing feed ramps, reshaping something, or whatever, do so BEFORE the treatment. This takes you from 35-40 Rockwell to 70+. If you have barrel you intend to have done I'd recommend breaking it in or lapping it beforehand as well. This surface just doesn't wear.


Can this process be a substitution for heat treating a 4130 receiver casting or other non heat treated steel part ?
hardheaded is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 25, 2017, 11:18   #27
gew98
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 32830
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: away from taxation without representation , Kentucky !.
Posts: 1,973
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardheaded View Post

Can this process be a substitution for heat treating a 4130 receiver casting or other non heat treated steel part ?
I would venture a guess and say NO. The depth of the meloniting is not deep...nowhere near enough for a proper heat treat.
__________________
The vice of capitolism is it's unequal sharing of blessings.
The Virtue of Socialism is it's equal sharing of MISERY.
Winston Churchill

1) Culture builds upon the past
2) The past always tries to control the future.
3) Our future is becoming less free
4) To build free societies you must limit control of the past.

All hail lord IMPOTUS and Darth Biden All hail.
gew98 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 28, 2017, 17:09   #28
jhend170
Registered
Contributor
 
jhend170's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 76477
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardheaded View Post
Additionally, if there are any modifications you intend to make like polishing feed ramps, reshaping something, or whatever, do so BEFORE the treatment. This takes you from 35-40 Rockwell to 70+. If you have barrel you intend to have done I'd recommend breaking it in or lapping it beforehand as well. This surface just doesn't wear.


Can this process be a substitution for heat treating a 4130 receiver casting or other non heat treated steel part ?
It cannot... It only affects to about 4 thousandth's deep, and is designed to do the opposite, treat the surfaces WITHOUT affecting actual heat treating. Curie point for steels are quite a bit higher than the ~1000degF melting point of the salts associated with the nitriding process.

This is also why Croc is full of $#!+...
jhend170 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 30, 2017, 07:11   #29
ByronF
Registered
 
ByronF's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 630
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: PA
Posts: 4,128
http://blacknitride.com/
ByronF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 21, 2018, 21:59   #30
Savary
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 8780
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 606
Salt bath, nitride, melonite, etc....
If the barrel is used, meaning fired or shot, the bore needs to be super clean or the treatment wont work right.

I wouldnt get any rifle receiver treated.
Some info from American Rifle Company.
Scroll down to the last paragraph at the bottom of the page.

http://www.americanrifle.com/safety-testing/
Savary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24, 2018, 18:01   #31
mp
Registered
 
mp's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 654
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 2,877
I need to gather up some stuff, but will most likely drive to and from Chapell Hill next time when its gathered up. I have no problem paying $150 for a bucket of stuff--that was the quote I got from several places for just a pistol barrel. Thank you for providing the link to the Houston Unlimited guys--I love finding semi local experts.
mp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 25, 2018, 11:28   #32
jhend170
Registered
Contributor
 
jhend170's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 76477
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,645
Happy to do it. Just waiting for everyone to chime in they are ready to do this thing. I'm guessing Huey is always ready. Anyone else committing?
jhend170 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 25, 2018, 12:16   #33
jhend170
Registered
Contributor
 
jhend170's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 76477
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savary View Post
Salt bath, nitride, melonite, etc....
If the barrel is used, meaning fired or shot, the bore needs to be super clean or the treatment wont work right.

I wouldnt get any rifle receiver treated.
Some info from American Rifle Company.
Scroll down to the last paragraph at the bottom of the page.

http://www.americanrifle.com/safety-testing/
My guess is they have an accuracy warranty in place and they are afraid any heat might mess that up. I, however, had my ENTIRE Remmy 700 done by these folks. If it was a hard part it got treated, receiver, barrel, all the trigger parts, everything, THEN it was built. I've shot a lot of clover leaves with that rifle in .270WSM, and the chamber still looks perfect and no changes in lockup with the bolt.

I'm not saying that EVERYTHING is ok with getting treated, but in my personal experience it has worked very well for me.
jhend170 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 08, 2018, 23:57   #34
FalDoc1982
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 71980
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Winston Salem, NC
Posts: 141
Well, I'm going down to Florida next month for service dog training so I'm going to contact WMD and see what they say. Depending on their cost, I might just do the group thing. (Or maybe have WMD just do the few receivers I want done) I'll have to weigh things out to see how much I'd need done, but Melonite has a lot of benefits and I think it's worth the cost from my research.
FalDoc1982 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The FAL Files