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Old January 31, 2018, 22:21   #1
Bawana jim
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Winchester 21

A friend is selling one and asking $4000 for 12 guage. Anyone know anything about 21s?
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Old February 01, 2018, 01:51   #2
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I read when Mr. John Olin was presented w/ the prototype M21 , he looked it over and ordered it to be proofed. From his own collection he put an English double and a German double to run against it.

IIRC, the English gun gave up the ghost after 60 proof rnds. The German went to 200 proof rnds.

After 2000 proof rnds. Mr. Olin called a halt to the testing. The prototype was disassembled, examined, put to the gauges, then re-assembled. The engineers reported "No discernible wear".

Mr. Olin ordered the M21 into production,,, and on into history.

By my mark,in almost any collection, an M21 would have to be the 'jewel in the crown'.

I imagine quite a wide spread in market value between a 'field grade' and a 'Grand American'. Even so, a field grade will go for good money.

Here is a ball park, tickets are pricey (scroll down) ; https://www.connecticutshotgun.com/p...er-collection/

Last edited by Illurian00; February 01, 2018 at 02:12.
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Old February 01, 2018, 03:36   #3
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The wood on this is beautiful, looks like dark walnut with beautiful grain in it. I have never seen one before and I am impressed. I know he won't sell it for a few days because he is busy so I am trying to think if it's a good investment to put back.
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Old February 01, 2018, 06:37   #4
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Assuming all original and in good shape, that would be a bargain. I have run across several, most have been modified in some way, ie, recoil pad, replaced wood, etc. All original well worn ones command that amount. If it is an all original special order, could be much much more.

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Old February 01, 2018, 07:23   #5
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The originals were high quality production guns, the later ones hand fitted custom shop items, prices run the gauntlet and accordingly.
IIRC, the original production guns had raised panels or bosses on the action sides, so the action was thicker at the rear. The later custom shop ones were completely flat sided,,so better for engraving and embellishment.
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Old February 01, 2018, 09:08   #6
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I looked at one in a local gunshop, years back, everytime I went in to look around. It was a cased, two barrel set and oozed quality. Sadly, Bubba had ported the barrels with a drill and done it poorly. Could not fathom the decision to drill, but there had to be alcohol involved.
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Old February 01, 2018, 10:01   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TenTea View Post
I looked at one in a local gunshop, years back, everytime I went in to look around. It was a cased, two barrel set and oozed quality. Sadly, Bubba had ported the barrels with a drill and done it poorly. Could not fathom the decision to drill, but there had to be alcohol involved.
That's when you beat them down beyond "cheap" and find the best tig welder available, and bribe him with copious amounts of beer. After finding an excellent machinist to turn out perfect brass barrel plugs for the welder to use.
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Old February 01, 2018, 15:36   #8
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That's when you beat them down beyond "cheap" and find the best tig welder available, and bribe him with copious amounts of beer. After finding an excellent machinist to turn out perfect brass barrel plugs for the welder to use.
I get tig welding is the greatest thing since sliced bread,,but it's still a torch and the metal gets hot right ? How would you keep the soldered together center ribs, what hold the barrels together, from melting and loosing grip ?
I understand using heat sinks while welding,,, but I cant see how you could go about it on a thin tubed SxS with soldered ribs in the middle...
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Old February 01, 2018, 15:55   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TenTea View Post
I looked at one in a local gunshop, years back, everytime I went in to look around. It was a cased, two barrel set and oozed quality. Sadly, Bubba had ported the barrels with a drill and done it poorly. Could not fathom the decision to drill, but there had to be alcohol involved.
I would guess stolen, because anyone who paid money for one wouldn't do that.
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Old February 01, 2018, 16:15   #10
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Quote:
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I get tig welding is the greatest thing since sliced bread,,but it's still a torch and the metal gets hot right ? How would you keep the soldered together center ribs, what hold the barrels together, from melting and loosing grip ?
I understand using heat sinks while welding,,, but I cant see how you could go about it on a thin tubed SxS with soldered ribs in the middle...

True, but let's face it, at this point what are you going to lose? The whole thing hinges on how cheap you could get it, because in the end, you're gonna be in it a pile. But after welding, have a good sxs Smith attend to the ribs, and in the end you have a field gun that you'll never worry about affecting value through use. So you'll use the ever loving chit out of it
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Old February 01, 2018, 17:02   #11
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Originally Posted by MilsurpMonkey View Post
That's when you beat them down beyond "cheap" and find the best tig welder available, and bribe him with copious amounts of beer. After finding an excellent machinist to turn out perfect brass barrel plugs for the welder to use.
Or clip the barrels to 22 " , and install choke tubes.




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Old February 01, 2018, 17:58   #12
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Or clip the barrels to 22 " , and install choke tubes.




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Old February 01, 2018, 19:38   #13
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The old shop where the ported M21 was had a bunch of old doubles (sxs) and the Winchester price was about the same as a nice Baker or Lefever or Remington.
This was around 20 years ago, now.
It wasn't for me then and probably wouldn't be now.
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