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Old November 20, 2017, 11:49   #1
tothemax
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Are there any good kits available?

Or have they all dried up? Glad I bought mine years ago but I have always wanted a PARA...
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Old November 20, 2017, 13:38   #2
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I've opened up my stash and I'm going to be posting a few kits over the next couple weeks. Including a para.

I'm going to auction them with low starting bids, No Reserve, so what they get they get.
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Old November 20, 2017, 13:45   #3
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They're still some good kits around but priced accordingly. The good old days are surely over when it comes to kits
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Old November 20, 2017, 21:03   #4
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I've opened up my stash and I'm going to be posting a few kits over the next couple weeks. Including a para.

I'm going to auction them with low starting bids, No Reserve, so what they get they get.
Interesting. Hope you get some good money out of them!
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Old November 21, 2017, 06:20   #5
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They are still around....nice one right here.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420883
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Old November 21, 2017, 06:41   #6
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Kits aren't the problem, it's quality receivers that have dried up.
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Old November 21, 2017, 06:45   #7
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Yeah, what he said. I still have for sale around 15 IMBEL kits and 10 L1A1 kits, one G1 and 1 StG available, but DSA's quality has dropped and their "f=ck you, we're DSA!" attitude has gotten worse, if that's actually possible. Thank the Republicans for banning IMBEL receivers..
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Old November 21, 2017, 09:59   #8
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Be careful when looking for kits… there are some people who value their kits off of someone else's impulse buy and/or will swap parts from their stash and dump their crap on you.

There are tons of lower grade kits on the market, but nice examples take some patience to find.

I have a low post count, which apparently translates into naive. I'd be surprised at the BS a couple members tired to pull over on me, but I have learned that comes with the territory in regard to building and collecting firearms.

Just because a well worn "Grade III" Imbel kit is listed on Gunbroker with a "buy now" of $500+ doesn't mean that it is worth $500+. The same kits have been advertised for months trolling for a naive impulse buy… don't be that "guy."

Don't be afraid to pay a reasonable premium for a nice kit if the seller is a straight shooter and willing to stand behind what they sell you.
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Old November 21, 2017, 10:31   #9
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These are 40-60 year old battle rifles. Many have seen numerous conflicts and even more abuse at the hands of countless conscripts. It would be even more naive to assume they look like they came off the factory floor. Then only to come here for further abuse by Bubba and the Clinton Assault on Weapons Ban.

The whole point is to manage expectations. Most conditions are open to interpretations. I try to judge mine by the NRA Standards:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58260

Bearing in mind, minus the loss of material (i.e. either through wear or rust), most conditions are cosmetic. Therefore a simple "paint job" can vastly alter a stated condition.

So yes it is important to educate yourself on what you are buying. Unless someone is lying about the condition, it is also safe to assume, you are starting with parts similar to what is described in my first paragraph. YMMV!!!!
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Old November 21, 2017, 21:47   #10
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Glad I got my kits from Gunplumber earlier this year. They are dolls, he saved me some time on the bbl assembly. Can' t wait to breathe some life into these hopefully soon.
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Old November 21, 2017, 23:36   #11
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What's the issue with DSA and their receivers?
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Old November 21, 2017, 23:44   #12
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What's the issue with DSA and their receivers?
Here you go. DSA receiver reviews

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417510
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Old November 22, 2017, 10:19   #13
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Interesting. Wonder what my DSA receiver is I bought a few years back? I will have to take a pic and post.
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Old November 22, 2017, 14:49   #14
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Be careful when looking for kits… there are some people who value their kits off of someone else's impulse buy and/or will swap parts from their stash and dump their crap on you.

There are tons of lower grade kits on the market, but nice examples take some patience to find.

I have a low post count, which apparently translates into naive. I'd be surprised at the BS a couple members tired to pull over on me, but I have learned that comes with the territory in regard to building and collecting firearms.

Just because a well worn "Grade III" Imbel kit is listed on Gunbroker with a "buy now" of $500+ doesn't mean that it is worth $500+. The same kits have been advertised for months trolling for a naive impulse buy… don't be that "guy."

Don't be afraid to pay a reasonable premium for a nice kit if the seller is a straight shooter and willing to stand behind what they sell you.
There's plenty of kits out there; the problem is that everyone wants a BGS kit, or an early Israeli, Belgian M1/M2, G Series clone or para, or G1 or Australian or British L1A1 kit but only wants to pay low ball Imbel kit prices.

I have plenty of kits that I will be selling shortly on Gunbroker as I find most folks here are just plain cheap when buying but their stuff is golden and rarer than anything in the world when they are selling.

I am getting out of FAL's/L1A1's as I can only use so many as I get older. Kids aren't interested in anything old with wood and steel except for my M1 carbine. I'm in no rush to sell so I won't let the lowballers get me down. Like I told my son, I would rather melt all my guns than sell them to some cheap ass lowballer.
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Old November 23, 2017, 00:16   #15
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There's plenty of kits out there; the problem is that everyone wants a BGS kit, or an early Israeli, Belgian M1/M2, G Series clone or para, or G1 or Australian or British L1A1 kit but only wants to pay low ball Imbel kit prices.

I have plenty of kits that I will be selling shortly on Gunbroker as I find most folks here are just plain cheap when buying but their stuff is golden and rarer than anything in the world when they are selling.

I am getting out of FAL's/L1A1's as I can only use so many as I get older. Kids aren't interested in anything old with wood and steel except for my M1 carbine. I'm in no rush to sell so I won't let the lowballers get me down. Like I told my son, I would rather melt all my guns than sell them to some cheap ass lowballer.
Hell, as a buyer, I experience guys offering me $99 Tapco G1 and Imbel kits for $500+, or a Dan's Grade I kit for $650 trade value (despite pix showing a sub Grade II kit). I had a guy offer me a Turkish G1 kit for $800, but was unwilling to clean the bore and provide a description. I don't think that I am out of line for thinking these prices are unreasonable. I would pay a premium for a nice quality kit, but nobody is willing to sell while they have a closet packed with Tapco garbage and Grade III kits.

My experience shows few people wanting to sell decent kits for any price, but more than willing to fish for a sucker to unload their crap on.

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Old November 23, 2017, 00:26   #16
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Hell, as a buyer, I experience guys offering me $99 Tapco G1 and Imbel kits for $500+....................

................My experience shows few people wanting to sell decent kits
Just ignore those guys. Go straight to Tapco and buy the $99 kits yourself!!!
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Old November 23, 2017, 00:33   #17
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There's plenty of kits out there; the problem is that everyone wants a BGS kit, or an early Israeli, Belgian M1/M2, G Series clone or para, or G1 or Australian or British L1A1 kit but only wants to pay low ball Imbel kit prices.

I have plenty of kits that I will be selling shortly on Gunbroker as I find most folks here are just plain cheap when buying but their stuff is golden and rarer than anything in the world when they are selling.
This....all these cool rare kits are not cheap to put together....therefore they aren’t cheap to buy when they do come up for sale....
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Old November 23, 2017, 00:33   #18
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Hell, as a buyer, I experience guys offering me $99 Tapco G1 and Imbel
kits for $500+, or a Dan's Grade I kit for $650 trade value (despite pix showing a sub Grade II kit). I had a guy offer me a Turkish G1 kit for $800, but was unwilling to clean the bore and provide a description. I don't think
They I am out of line for thinking these prices are unreasonable. I would pay a premium for a nice quality kit, but nobody is willing to sell while they have a closet packed with Tapco garbage and Grade III kits.

My experience shows few people wanting to sell decent kits for any price, but more than willing to fish for a sucker to unload their crap on.


Look the days of $99.00 kits are GONE

You used to be able to buy nice MP44 kits back in the mid to late 90s for in the $200 range. Today they are well over Two Grand and climbing

I can give you dozens of examples like this

I suppose you can hop in your Tardis and travel back in time but howling on about how over priced FAL kits are today is well retarded
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Old November 23, 2017, 02:26   #19
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This....all these cool rare kits are not cheap to put together....therefore they aren’t cheap to buy when they do come up for sale....
Exactly. If I wanted cheap Imbel kits, I would have bought Imbel. I always wanted and pieced together exotic early kits or rare kits as I am a history buff. The hunt for the rare parts was part of the excitement of the FAL/L1A1 addiction.

I still can’t believe the kits (BGS, Paraguayan, C1A1, L2A1, etc) and completed rifles (L2A1, Galils, M14’s) I sold for my daughter’s education.
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Old November 23, 2017, 08:18   #20
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[QUOTE=Invictus77;4504794]Just ignore those guys. Go straight to Tapco and buy the $99 kits yourself!!![/QUOTE

Good morning fuckstick. That IS NOT what I suggested.... not even close. My point is that many folks think that their kits are worth more while trying to take advantage of folks with low post counts. The reference to $99 Tapco" kits was a reference to condition of these kits... they were $99 for a reason, no?

I am and have been willing to pay up for a solid original kit. I was willing to pay $600+ for "Dan's Grade I" Imbel kit, but when I received the pix, the kit was obviously a conglomeration of parts thrown together of assorted conditions and finishes..... definitely not what we would hav expected of a Grade I kit back in the day.

Anyone who would pay $500+ for heavily worn $99 Tapco Imbel kit or Dan's Grade III Imbel kit is either naive or an idiot..... and apparently there are not many idiots out there. as the same kits have been floating on Gunbroker for months without takers. Folks like Mark Graham at ARS have respectable kits in that price range and they are not flying off his shelves.

It is not unreasonable to ask someone to clean the grease out of a barrel and give a description of the bore when asking $800 for a heavily worn G1 kit.

I personally think $1200 for a late Steyr STG58 kit with plastics stock is high. Maybe someone else does? I don't see it, especially when there are plenty of nice rifles already built with compable kits. If the kit was exceptional Belgian STG58 kit or early Austrian with wood stock, I would expect it to be worth that much.... and I would be a bidder!

I have watched Gunbroker for months. Nobody has offered kits on Gunbroker with no reserve and a low opening bid. Until this happens, we will not have an idea what the actual market is for any FAL kit. I don't know what folks are afraid of.... if they think their kits are worth a premium, then the kits will fetch the $$$.

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Old November 23, 2017, 08:31   #21
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So... perhaps a stupid question, but I am not as well versed in the FAL game. I came in late (well past the FAL glory days of cheap kits and good deals) and happened to get lucky. Are there any potential FAL supplies still floating out there?

A lot of the MILSURP guys talk about the golden age (remember the days of <100 dollar mosin nagants and $90 SKSs?). There is a lot of talk about these Korean Garands and 1911s hitting the market. I recall reading something similar about Philipino Garands. Is there any such hope for foreign FAL kits to dump into the market, or are we well past such stockpiles?
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Old November 23, 2017, 08:49   #22
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Exactly. If I wanted cheap Imbel kits, I would have bought Imbel. I always wanted and pieced together exotic early kits or rare kits as I am a history buff. The hunt for the rare parts was part of the excitement of the FAL/L1A1 addiction.

I still can’t believe the kits (BGS, Paraguayan, C1A1, L2A1, etc) and completed rifles (L2A1, Galils, M14’s) I sold for my daughter’s education.
I wish I still had the Izzy light barrel kit that I pulled together from nearly all NOS parts and no serial numbers. Of all the kits I let go during a post deployment divorce, that is the one I miss the most. Hell, I sold they kit for $1500 back in the day, who knows what that kit would pull now!

I will pony up for quality and rare kits if and when they pop up.... I look forward to bidding on your kits if they go to auction.
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Old November 23, 2017, 08:51   #23
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From what I see sell here, I would say kit prices are down 25%, and I believe they will be back up after Christmas
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Old November 23, 2017, 09:39   #24
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Kits prices are what they are, bitching about it won't change it.

Kit prices will and do fluctuate some but they will never be close to the prices they were when they came over on the boat. One only has to decide how bad he wants them. Pony up and pay it or be without that desired kit, simple as that. Certainly nobody is going to sell an item for less than it's currently bringing, out of pity.

Having said all that, there are still piles of FAL fodder across the pond to be had, the hard part is getting it here.

The golden day of the FAL hobby has long since passed, what we see today is a very niche market for a very small number of people. Want to play, got to pay.
Crying about it only makes one look silly.
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Old November 23, 2017, 11:18   #25
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Nobody is whining. The key point is that the newbie needs to be patient and watch the market so they don't get taken advantage of. Fair enough?

Anyway, Happy Turkey Day! More important things to haggle about that this silly BS.

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Old November 23, 2017, 11:50   #26
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Nobody is whining. The key point is that the newbie needs to be patient and watch the market so they don't get taken advantage of. Fair enough?

Anyway, Happy Turkey Day! More important things to haggle about that this silly BS.
Agreed. The hard part from the newbie's perspective is being the newbie. He's doesn't know what he doesn't know so cannot make educated decisions. Only time in reading and questions can give him what he needs.
From my perspective I don't see anyone trying to prey on new guys. People offer up goods, it's up to the buyer to be educated on the goods, not on the seller.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours, today is about the important things.
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Old November 23, 2017, 12:41   #27
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I have watched Gunbroker for months. Nobody has offered kits on Gunbroker with no reserve and a low opening bid. Until this happens, we will not have an idea what the actual market is for any FAL kit. I don't know what folks are afraid of.... if they think their kits are worth a premium, then the kits will fetch the $$$.
And you won’t see a no reserve, penny auction from me. That is how I got burned years ago due to cheap bastards. I wound up losing my ass off on those auctions.

I had an early Israeli light barrel kit for sale here years ago with an Early Israeli barrel (think EX1/T48 Type with barrel ledge on gas block). I couldn’t sell it here even with our FAL Files old time experts chiming in with comments as to how rare and hard to find those parts were as it had taken them years to find themselves. I finally sold that kit on Gunbroker to an FAL Files member.

Did I get what I thought the kit was worth? No, but I got something that I could live with. I still haven’t been able to find the parts to replace that kit so I have given up replacing that Israeli kit.

If I had taken your advice on going with penny auction, no reserve that kit would have probably sold for $600 and I would have lost my shirt again. As it is, it sold for around $2,150 and the buyer was happy with that price.

For all those guys clamoring for a penny start, no reserve auction, would you sell your car or house that way?
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Old November 23, 2017, 12:54   #28
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The problem with no reserve penny auctions is not everyone shops auction sites. There could be a knowledgeable buyer out there who knows what your items worth but he might not visit or use auction sites.

By nature, people using auction sites are looking for a bargain, not retail prices.
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Old November 23, 2017, 13:23   #29
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The problem with no reserve penny auctions is not everyone shops auction sites. There could be a knowledgeable buyer out there who knows what your items worth but he might not visit or use auction sites.

By nature, people using auction sites are looking for a bargain, not retail prices.
That couldn't be further than the truth. I do MUCH better selling C&R and vintage AR parts on Gunbroker than on internet forums. If the seller posts a solid HONEST description with clear pictures, and ends the auction at the proper time (such as Sunday evening where bidders can duke it out), the item WILL sell and likely exceed th seller's expections (if those expectations are reasonable).

As a buyer, I am much more apt to place a bid and follow up on a zero reserve auction with a low opening bid. When I see an auction with a high opening bid and/or high unknown reserve (regardless of the item sold), I am led to believe that the seller does not have confidence in the item they are selling (or is a con artist looking for a sucker) and/or has unreasonable expectations in regard to value.

I walk the talk, 95%+ of my auctions start with a .01 opening bid and no reserve. The interesting part is that my items often sell for more than comparable items with high reserves. Go figure?
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Old November 23, 2017, 13:27   #30
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The value of any item is set when a willing buyer and a willing seller make a transaction at a given point-in-time.

If the identical item sells for half that amount or double that amount at another place or time is irrelevant.

Now if the seller lies about what it is, or if the buyer does not produce funds as promised, that is an entirely different discussion about honesty and honor. An agreed upon deal between honest men however is what sets the "value" at that moment on that item.
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Old November 23, 2017, 14:10   #31
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"Honor" has become a rare commodity in our society. Some people have a distorted view of what "honor" actually means. If a person wants to debate the definition of "honor," that person is automatically the person I choose to avoid.

Honesty and honor is a true premium in today's society.... and it sells. I know this first hand as a seller and a buyer.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.
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Old November 23, 2017, 14:17   #32
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That couldn't be further than the truth. I do MUCH better selling C&R and vintage AR parts on Gunbroker than on internet forums. If the seller posts a solid HONEST description with clear pictures, and ends the auction at the proper time (such as Sunday evening where bidders can duke it out), the item WILL sell and likely exceed th seller's expections (if those expectations are reasonable).

As a buyer, I am much more apt to place a bid and follow up on a zero reserve auction with a low opening bid. When I see an auction with a high opening bid and/or high unknown reserve (regardless of the item sold), I am led to believe that the seller does not have confidence in the item they are selling (or is a con artist looking for a sucker) and/or has unreasonable expectations in regard to value.

I walk the talk, 95%+ of my auctions start with a .01 opening bid and no reserve. The interesting part is that my items often sell for more than comparable items with high reserves. Go figure?
Well, good for you. Today’s market has changed and everyone wants to “steal” an item and pay pennies on the dollar even when the item is NIB / NIW /NOS.
I refuse to play that game and don’t care if I turn off the cheap bastards which actually works to my benefit. An auction is to get as much money for the SELLER not to provide a cheap deal to the buyer. Rant off.
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Old November 23, 2017, 15:15   #33
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I generally start my auctions at my investment cost. While I don't always make a profit, I at least break even. I will no longer sell items at a loss, as it's make no sense for me to do so.
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Old November 23, 2017, 15:16   #34
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That couldn't be further than the truth. I do MUCH better selling C&R and vintage AR parts on Gunbroker than on internet forums. If the seller posts a solid HONEST description with clear pictures, and ends the auction at the proper time (such as Sunday evening where bidders can duke it out), the item WILL sell and likely exceed th seller's expections (if those expectations are reasonable).

As a buyer, I am much more apt to place a bid and follow up on a zero reserve auction with a low opening bid. When I see an auction with a high opening bid and/or high unknown reserve (regardless of the item sold), I am led to believe that the seller does not have confidence in the item they are selling (or is a con artist looking for a sucker) and/or has unreasonable expectations in regard to value.

I walk the talk, 95%+ of my auctions start with a .01 opening bid and no reserve. The interesting part is that my items often sell for more than comparable items with high reserves. Go figure?
So... let me get this straight. You expect top dollar for your stuff, but every seller is a dishonest and overpriced "con artist" when you want to buy? That's just over the top. Youi have a logic issue that is yours and yours alone. I have never been burned on any buy I have made on the files, and if I had any question I asked for more pics. WTF do you expect from 50 year old kits? If you don't like the price... Don't buy.
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Old November 23, 2017, 15:18   #35
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So... let me get this straight. You expect top dollar for your stuff, but every seller is a dishonest and overpriced "con artist" when you want to buy? That's just over the top. Youi have a logic issue that is yours and yours alone. I have never been burned on any buy I have made on the files, and if I had any question I asked for more pics. WTF do you expect from 50 year old kits? If you don't like the price... Don't buy.
And, if a Files member did burn you, did you post the appropriate feedback and review?
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Old November 23, 2017, 16:56   #36
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So... perhaps a stupid question, but I am not as well versed in the FAL game. I came in late (well past the FAL glory days of cheap kits and good deals) and happened to get lucky. Are there any potential FAL supplies still floating out there?

A lot of the MILSURP guys talk about the golden age (remember the days of <100 dollar mosin nagants and $90 SKSs?). There is a lot of talk about these Korean Garands and 1911s hitting the market. I recall reading something similar about Philipino Garands. Is there any such hope for foreign FAL kits to dump into the market, or are we well past such stockpiles?
Not really a great deal of FALs left in quantity that could be broken down and kitted up these days but there are a great many other issues as well.

First of which is the Bush barrel ban of 2008. As it stands no more original barrel kits will be coming in.

That also factors in as extra time with the torch at an FTZ many an increase in per unit investment.
but there is a far greater factor in play most of the complainers can't get their heads around.

Back when the floodgates opened up on kits there really wasn't much of an internet. What that meant is most folks outside of America had nada a clue what the American market could & would support on many things.
Thus importers like us were able to buy cheap and sell cheap while still making an ungodly profit margin.

Today with just a few keystrokes some blanket ass third worlder now has full access to Western valuations on EVERYTHING
So asking prices are far steeper than they were in the basically scrap metal days.

Another factor is yeah there are piles of goodies scattered across the globe
talking just FALs there are still a mess in Africa
Good luck on getting it ever here...most of that Continent is no go as far as importing even parts of guns. I have been down that road before.
Hell there are still 1950s manufactured Dutch AR10s there

Yes we may well see Garands from Korea, maybe the PI
hard to say though, it all cruxes on whether they had been purchased or provided as part of a military assistance package. If they were bought then they can be imported, if not...no.

The Korean crap was mostly purchased using cash grants provided to certain Nations which is a workaround versus lend/lease sort of arrangements which are prohibited from re-import. The PI stocks though are allegedly being returned to our DoD and the notion is they would be released through CMP to the "public".
Just don't expect any bargains. The CMP is not what it once was since it was more or less privatized some years back.

What should happen is for Trump to lift O'Bamas EO that shut Century down from importing the Korean guns. That would flood the market and bring down the prices quite a bit in my opinion.
It would be nice to rid us of the Clinton/GW lend/lease nonsense and GWs barrel ban with it.

as much as I hate to say it in so far as this crap is concerned just be glad McCain wasn't elected in 08'...he would have been as bad as Hillary for gun owners. Maybe even worse.
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Old November 23, 2017, 17:17   #37
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Auxpower got the last good kits. Blame him.

The only super duper nice kits I've seen were Argys and STGs. The FMAP receivers are getting scarce. The Enterprise kits were decent but were expensive. Same ones GP has. I've said it before, building a FAL isn't cheap. My most expensive build is a 100% IMBEL para. The only SN on the rifle is the upper. I still could use a NOS carry handle as was able to get a set of SAR 48 HGs and PG.

It's like a boat. Bust Out Another Thousand.
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Old November 23, 2017, 22:54   #38
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Most of my $99 kits turned into damn fine rifles. I say most, because some of them are still kits. As soon as my $349 BM-59 kit comes back from the builder, I'm going to do something about the remaining FAL kits as I do have a few receivers sitting around dong nothing as well.

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Old November 23, 2017, 23:39   #39
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So... let me get this straight. You expect top dollar for your stuff, but every seller is a dishonest and overpriced "con artist" when you want to buy? That's just over the top. Youi have a logic issue that is yours and yours alone. I have never been burned on any buy I have made on the files, and if I had any question I asked for more pics. WTF do you expect from 50 year old kits? If you don't like the price... Don't buy.
Hey moron, didn't I state that I start 95%+ of my auctions at .01 opening bid and no reserve? The market dictates the selling price, not me.

If I don't have confidence that the market will bring the selling price that I expect, I don't list it.... the item is worth more to me than what the market will bring.

There are numerous beater FAL kits on Gunbroker at any given time with "buy now" or opening bids/reserves of $500+. THEY DON'T SELL. Why? Because the asking price is beyond what the market will bring.

In regard to the FAL market, I rarely see any kits offered in a format that encourages active bidding. If the seller is confident in the item they are selling, the item WILL sell for a respectable price. Shit, I WILL BID. I will pay $1000+ for a premium kit (shit, I have sold early M16 barrels for more than that). But, I WILL NOT pay $500 for a beater Imbel kit, because that is beyond what the market TANGIBLY brings. That isn't being cheap, that is called not being a moron with my $$$.

But my logic is flawed. O.K. Got it. Good luck.


...

Last edited by lockjaw; November 24, 2017 at 00:17.
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Old November 24, 2017, 00:10   #40
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Most of my $99 kits turned into damn fine rifles. I say most, because some of them are still kits. As soon as my $349 BM-59 kit comes back from the builder, I'm going to do something about the remaining FAL kits as I do have a few receivers sitting around dong nothing as well.

krf
They were a fun gamble.... I bought 10 in one shot, and a couple more year n'there for shits n' giggles. It also didn't hurt they Tapco was within driving distance. If you bought in volume you had a better chance of receiving decent wood furniture and nicer G1 barrels, and unserialied replacement parts. I even landed a couple chrome lined replacement G1 barrels in nice condition. The biggest hassle was cleaning the grease off to find out what you received!

On the flip side, there were plenty of heavily pitted barrels, ugly ass Turkish firewood stocks and/or stocks were fracked and worn with buttplates (hammered and rusted) that hung over the sides. Bolts and carriers were often rusted with no finish, and lowers were thrashed. If you received a set of straight bI-pod legs, you were for fortunate. The metal handguards were always bent or dinged up and on the screw holes were typically soldered. They were a gamble.

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Old November 24, 2017, 02:43   #41
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Hey moron, didn't I state that I start 95%+ of my auctions at .01 opening bid and no reserve? The market dictates the selling price, not me.

If I don't have confidence that the market will bring the selling price that I expect, I don't list it.... the item is worth more to me than what the market will bring.

There are numerous beater FAL kits on Gunbroker at any given time with "buy now" or opening bids/reserves of $500+. THEY DON'T SELL. Why? Because the asking price is beyond what the market will bring.

In regard to the FAL market, I rarely see any kits offered in a format that encourages active bidding. If the seller is confident in the item they are selling, the item WILL sell for a respectable price. Shit, I WILL BID. I will pay $1000+ for a premium kit (shit, I have sold early M16 barrels for more than that). But, I WILL NOT pay $500 for a beater Imbel kit, because that is beyond what the market TANGIBLY brings. That isn't being cheap, that is called not being a moron with my $$$.

But my logic is flawed. O.K. Got it. Good luck.


...
Guess I am missing it

You brag about your penny auctions like you are some Saint for doing so then claim you figure that those who start at their bottom as a reserve are some how scandalous because they somehow lack your blind ambition.

Whatever, most everything I auction has a reserve where I start bidding at.
Some fuktard doesn't want to participate I'm cool with that but as an example I'd never ever try to sell a 57 Vette or T Bird that way

I actually don't auction often. I know what I have into things then establish my margin and sell it at that and yes I always get my money in the end
prefer face to face. It excludes jackasses who insist on after the sale has been made negotiation. Used to deal with that irregularly no matter how many pix I had posted or sent
my response has always been, Send it BACK for refund then at which point the whining terminates

Frankly in my opinion auctions are ghey as a picnic basket and they in no way establish market valuation

I try not to sell using auctions but I do buy regularly
some shit is stupidly undervalued due to a combination of utter ignorance of where actual buyers are coupled with ignorant sellers with little clue of what they are attempting to vend.

The internet is a damn poor barometer of real valuation. In guns alone I reckon well over 70% of potential buyers over 30 years of age really don't use it and you move the age bracket into the 40s & 50s even less
This is actual current experience vending parts and collectibles at shows
not your Smell my finger nonsense.

Many internet types don't get this, that there are just a fraction of gun folks following online trends even today
nothing quite as simple as online neck beards figuring they have some universal system

There is no market value on ANYTHING
it's all where you are, who you are and who they are

but carry on, sounds like you have your master blaster system just all snickered out
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Old November 24, 2017, 08:24   #42
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Got it. We have established that the point of an auction is to get the most $$$ for the seller. I shared what works for me as a seller.... advice based on tangible experience.

Another feature that helps the seller on Gunbroker is the ability to block bidders. If you see a bidder with low rating for flaking on purchases or making irrational returns, you can simply block them from bidding any further. Same goes for newbie bidders. I'll send ithe newbie bidder a message. If hey don't reply, your a they get blocked.

Regarding the .01 opening bid, it works to my benefit as a seller. It has nothing to do with "acting like a saint." I want to get the most money possible for my items. I explained how I do it. But that is "ghey." O.K. got it.

I have yet to experience a buyer who requested a refund or a return. If you are honest and post good pix, that shouldn't be an issue.

I could see how some gunshow humpers would have a hard time selling at auction. Exaggerating about the description and/or telling half truths to hook an impulse buy doesn't work well on an online auction where the buyer has the opportunity to research the item and sniff through the seller's bullshit. But, an inflated "buy now" might snare a sucker here and there. But, the seller gets upset when that buyer wants to return the item because he/she was conned. The seller will blame the buyer for "buyer's remorse," or state that is the buyer's fault for not educating themselves.

We see these asshole sellers on the local gunshow circuit, selling the same snake oil every week-end. Strange how these sellers are always bitter, and their business never expands; while other sellers have fun and receive repeat customers. The customer isn't always right, but that isn't an excuse to treat every customer like they are wrong.

You may "not get it," but I do. If that makes me "ghey," so be it. Don't tell my wife and kids that, that will confuse the shit out of them.

Thank you for the education. It was fun.
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Old November 24, 2017, 12:19   #43
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Got it. We have established that the point of an auction is to get the most $$$ for the seller. I shared what works for me as a seller.... advice based on tangible experience.

Another feature that helps the seller on Gunbroker is the ability to block bidders. If you see a bidder with low rating for flaking on purchases or making irrational returns, you can simply block them from bidding any further. Same goes for newbie bidders. I'll send ithe newbie bidder a message. If hey don't reply, your a they get blocked.

Regarding the .01 opening bid, it works to my benefit as a seller. It has nothing to do with "acting like a saint." I want to get the most money possible for my items. I explained how I do it. But that is "ghey." O.K. got it.

I have yet to experience a buyer who requested a refund or a return. If you are honest and post good pix, that shouldn't be an issue.

I could see how some gunshow humpers would have a hard time selling at auction. Exaggerating about the description and/or telling half truths to hook an impulse buy doesn't work well on an online auction where the buyer has the opportunity to research the item and sniff through the seller's bullshit. But, an inflated "buy now" might snare a sucker here and there. But, the seller gets upset when that buyer wants to return the item because he/she was conned. The seller will blame the buyer for "buyer's remorse," or state that is the buyer's fault for not educating themselves.

We see these asshole sellers on the local gunshow circuit, selling the same snake oil every week-end. Strange how these sellers are always bitter, and their business never expands; while other sellers have fun and receive repeat customers. The customer isn't always right, but that isn't an excuse to treat every customer like they are wrong.

You may "not get it," but I do. If that makes me "ghey," so be it. Don't tell my wife and kids that, that will confuse the shit out of them.

Thank you for the education. It was fun.
We have alternate perspectives

I have never offered a "buy it now option", I simply list at my lowest number and let things run their course.

Yes, I have banned a couple folks over a history of negotiation after the fact. I don't play that game period. Only found it among youngsters attempting to break into the antique arms trade. Not among kit buyers.
Besides full refund is always available upon request, I don't need any reasons from a customer. Sometimes guys buy and the wife blows up even. I get that...I want peace in their homes.
That's in part how you build a solid customer base.
Been in the biz since the 70s and yeah sometimes folks want a return. Never really been over disatisfaction. When I say full refund I mean it, all costs including shipping both ways. Yeah I eat it, I'm like that. Are you ?

You misunderstood
it's not penny auctions that are ghey...it's auctions in general in my opinion. Penny auctions are just slightly gheyer. Again I buy from them but refrain from using them as a selling tool. I just don't have time in my life to shoot pix of some damn screw and yeah I used to get that inane crap all the time. It becomes a full time job catering to the legions of online pic collectors.

Using forums
I'd much rather a Man call me on the phone than endlessly email back and forth. I enjoy engaging with the public.

Gun shows are rarely "impulse buying", that's what auctions are about whether physical or virtual. It's also why they tend to be worthless as a barometer of real world vaulation.
Look at the insane numbers reached at car auctions, better yet farm auctions where guns are advertised. I just shake my head. Seen it for 40 odd years now.

Dunno'...I'm hardly the bitter guy at a show. We run 5 to 8 tables, mostly parts and collectibles, most of the customer base is other vendors. One thing I have zero time for is some kid with a smart phone in hand expecting to buy something based upon what it used to sell for when it used to be available a decade ago.

I don't mind giving a Man a margin to make money on their investment but don't insult me with some low ball bullshit either
Two examples from the last year
We had a Belgian Preban FAL. Twenty something turd actually had the gall to offer a bit over a grand for it. See, he only wanted it for the "receiver"
Sure whatever, I laughed in his face and walked away, ignored him after that.
This spring had another youngster argue with me over a super clean but mismatched 1870s US Cavalry SAA. Tag priced at $3700, he offered $1100 because it was just a "shooter". Another Idiot who thought he was at a bankruptcy liquidation auction spouting loudly he buys these all the time for a grand. Sure you do junior, sure. The more he pressed me the more sarcastic I became. Neighboring vendors were just all smiles. See I don't get pissed at insulting offers. Someone plays the stupid card on me though it's hard for me to take them serious. Truth is most of these tards don't even have the cash to back their offers. It's just playing big shot using their toolkit taken from watching reality TeeVee

Now here's the cool part. Fellow vendors as a rule know better than to do that shit with me. I have been playing the game decades before the internet, prior to cable TV even.

I frankly hate what the internet has done to folks
There has been a paradigm shift from being honorable in business to many being completely paranoid and having just retarded expectations on many things.

I have very little interest in squeezing the last cent out of any item. I know where my margin is, I buy and sell based upon that.
Keeps things enjoyable, it's greed that makes Men bitter at the world.
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Old November 27, 2017, 14:14   #44
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Just ignore those guys. Go straight to Tapco and buy the $99 kits yourself!!!
This^^^
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Old November 28, 2017, 05:49   #45
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This^^^
Well at least I now know where that "Dan's Grade I" kit came from.

Long story short... I had a super nice handpicked CMP IHC Service Grade Garand with all documentation for sale/trade here on veteran's day, for $1350 shipped. gska3873 asked me is I would consider a trade, which I entertained.

Here a couple quotes from him in the process,
"I know one of the BC Imbel kits I have is a Dan's Grade 1, un-numbered lower,matching bolt and carrier. On the STG-58 kit please keep in mind there would not be much value difference between it and the Garand."

I replied that I was afraid to ask the value of the Imbel kit, based upon his appraised value for the STG58 kit, as my asking price for the Garand was $1350.

He replied, "I didn't say it was exact same value, however, ones in this condition have sold for 1100-1200 in the past. Considering standard mis-matched completely worn finish Imbel kits are going for around $525 now I would say a Grade 1 would be $625-$650. You also have to remember you can't place a premium value on one end of the deal and bargain basement value on the other end."

.... I searched gska3873's earlier posts, funny.... he sold an Imbel kit on the FALfiles for $400 just a couple weeks prior. http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420337

He wouldn't take $1000+ trade value for the STG58 kit, but we agreed upon $700 + the "Dan's Grade I kit" pending pix. He stated it would be a couple days before he could "dig the kit out." A few days later, I received pix of a very well worn Imbel kit with a matching # bolt carrier void of any original finish, wearing better than average furniture. None of the Dan's Grade I accessories were included, other than other characteristics that were suspect. I had bought multiple Dan's kits from back in the day, and this surely was not a Grade I kit, from my past experience.

I simply e-mailed gska3873 back and explained that it wasn't a grade I kit as I remembered one, and his response was "like hell it isn't." I was cordial and explained that regardless of the grade, I didn't feel that it was worth the assessed $650 trade value and that I was willing to renegotiate. He got bent out of shape and went on to tell me he could buy a comparable condition IHC garand for multiple hundred dollars less (though he did admit early on that he knew nothing about garands). The deal was nuked then.

But I'm a cheap asshole. O.K. Got it.

On the flipside, I did trade for a really nice matching numbers Imbel kit (Bolt and carrier matched lower, no serial number on barrel). The other party received a low round count Colt M4 upper that had a value of $500-$600. I think that was a very fair trade, no?
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Old November 28, 2017, 07:43   #46
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Well at least I now know where that "Dan's Grade I" kit came from.

Long story short... I had a super nice handpicked CMP IHC Service Grade Garand with all documentation for sale/trade here on veteran's day, for $1350 shipped. gska3873 asked me is I would consider a trade, which I entertained.

Here a couple quotes from him in the process,
"I know one of the BC Imbel kits I have is a Dan's Grade 1, un-numbered lower,matching bolt and carrier. On the STG-58 kit please keep in mind there would not be much value difference between it and the Garand."

I replied that I was afraid to ask the value of the Imbel kit, based upon his appraised value for the STG58 kit, as my asking price for the Garand was $1350.

He replied, "I didn't say it was exact same value, however, ones in this condition have sold for 1100-1200 in the past. Considering standard mis-matched completely worn finish Imbel kits are going for around $525 now I would say a Grade 1 would be $625-$650. You also have to remember you can't place a premium value on one end of the deal and bargain basement value on the other end."

.... I searched gska3873's earlier posts, funny.... he sold an Imbel kit on the FALfiles for $400 just a couple weeks prior. http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420337

He wouldn't take $1000+ trade value for the STG58 kit, but we agreed upon $700 + the "Dan's Grade I kit" pending pix. He stated it would be a couple days before he could "dig the kit out." A few days later, I received pix of a very well worn Imbel kit with a matching # bolt carrier void of any original finish, wearing better than average furniture. None of the Dan's Grade I accessories were included, other than other characteristics that were suspect. I had bought multiple Dan's kits from back in the day, and this surely was not a Grade I kit, from my past experience.

I simply e-mailed gska3873 back and explained that it wasn't a grade I kit as I remembered one, and his response was "like hell it isn't." I was cordial and explained that regardless of the grade, I didn't feel that it was worth the assessed $650 trade value and that I was willing to renegotiate. He got bent out of shape and went on to tell me he could buy a comparable condition IHC garand for multiple hundred dollars less (though he did admit early on that he knew nothing about garands). The deal was nuked then.

But I'm a cheap asshole. O.K. Got it.

On the flipside, I did trade for a really nice matching numbers Imbel kit (Bolt and carrier matched lower, no serial number on barrel). The other party received a low round count Colt M4 upper that had a value of $500-$600. I think that was a very fair trade, no?
You have obviously slept since then since your information is out of line. Why don't we show the exact conversation and the photos you were sent so everyone can see it in the open instead of YOUR version (below are the private messages that were exchanged on here before pictures and emailing started). Chronological order is from bottom to top. Next post will have the pictures sent and email correspondences:

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Re: IHC garand
As long as nothing has been swapped or messed with since coming from the CMP I'll do it for $700 plus the Grade 1 kit. If you don't mind giving me a couple days to get the kit out and get you pictures so you can verify it is what I am describing. It's the last weekend of bow season here and trying to get something before the nutty neighbors hit the woods during gun season. If you don't mind sharing another reference from another forum or website I would appreciate it. No personal offense meant, just a lack of itrader feedback on here is all. Let me know your email address to send the pictures once I get them.

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Originally Posted by lockjaw
Let me know, I will mark the rifle sold.

Cheers,
Eric

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Re: IHC garand
I gave you a solid no BS trade offer. The Garand is worth a solid $1400. I'm content at $700 + the Imbel kit.


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Re: IHC garand
If you would take $650 plus the Grade I kit I will do it. I assume the Garand hasn't been messed with as far as swapping parts out and such since coming from the CMP?.

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I could also offer the rifle for the Dan's Grade I kit + $700.

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Re: IHC garand
The bore is pristine. The '60s era SA barrel barrels are highly regarded for accuracy, and it gauges near unissued, if not on par. The Letterkenny rebuilds are highly regarded for their quality and many collect them as is. Th stockset is easily worth $400 on its own. Not only is the rifle collectible, but it will make for an excellent shooter. Based upon my experience, And how th stockset was treated and smoothness of th action, this was likely used as a match rifle at service rifle shoots, likely with a VFW or Legion post.

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Re: IHC garand
I'm mulling it over. I am a bit new to Garands (primary interest in IHC due to being in/from Indiana). Also, since International Harvester was here in Fort Wayne (I know they didn't build them here). If you don't mind indulging me, school me a little on this one please. How does the bore look on it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockjaw
Respectfully, I can go on Gunbroker any day of the week and find numerous worn mixmaster Imbel kits with asking prices for $500+.... because they are the same kits that were listed there weeks, in not, months ago. Asking price does not dictate actual value.

I have a ton of experience buyer/selling garands and other C&R rifles. I am content that I am not asking a "premium" for this IHC Garand. It is really nice rifle and has a lot going for it. I know I can move it in a heartbeat on other venues or let it ride on Gunbroker and let a couple buyers duke it out. The new owner will be very pleased with it, and it will be a sound investment. If you need references from other forums and websites, let me know.

Your asking price for the Dan's Grade I Imbel kit is reasonable. I do think an evaluation of $1200 istipping the scales at a "premium" considering that I could find a complete early DSA rifle, which used the same exceptional kits, for $1500 give or take.

I have an early DSA receiver looking for a home, and I have build tools en route. I would like to take the STG58 kit off of your hands, and I am content that you will be very pleased with this IHC Garand.... at a respectable price point for both parties. I could do the trade, the IHC Garand for the STG-58 kit + $300.

Let me know. I tossed the Garand on FALfiles for today, it may or may not be offered elsewhere. I don't need the cash, but I do enjoy selling, buying and building.

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Re: IHC garand
I didn't say it was exact same value, however, ones in this condition have sold for 1100-1200 in the past. Considering standard mis-matched completely worn finish Imbel kits are going for around $525 now I would say a Grade 1 would be $625-$650.
You also have to remember you can't place a premium value on one end of the deal and bargain basement value on the other end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockjaw
Well, I'm going to have to take a trap back if your placing a value of $1300 of an STG-58 kit, regardless of condition.

I'm afraid to ask..... I am familiar with the Dan's Imbel kits from back in the day. What are you asking for it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gska3873
I know one of the BC Imbel kits I have is a Dan's Grade 1, un-numbered lower,
matching bolt and carrier. On the STG-58 kit please keep in mind there would not be much value difference between it and the Garand. It is all matching numbers,
hand picked from the days when DSA got in kits from basically new rifles.
All still on original receiver stub. If I remember correctly the only blemish is a small nick on the rear sling swivel band.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockjaw
I would be interested in a really nice matching Imbel kit or STG-58. This is an exceptional Garand, I think it would be worth consideration in regard to the STG-58 kit.

Thank you,
Eric


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Re: IHC garand
I have Imbel kits, both BC and NBC, BGS kits, a primo STG kit (not sure I'm ready to let that one go though). Also have RPD kit, 1919 kits, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockjaw
I would be interested in quality FAL parts kits and/or parts towards the garand. What do you have to offer?

Thank ha I you,
Eric


Quote:
Originally Posted by gska3873
Hello,

Are there any FAL parts or anything else you would be interested in for trade/partial trade towards the IHC?

Thanks
Kent

Last edited by gska3873; November 28, 2017 at 08:13.
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Old November 28, 2017, 08:03   #47
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Lets get on with the emails and photo's shall we so everyone can decide for themselves how it went down (chronological order on this is top to bottom):


Hello Eric,

Please find enclosed photos of the Dan’s Grade 1 Imbel kit.

Thanks
Kent



From lockjaw:
I had bought a number of Dan's grade I kits back in the day.

That isn't a grade I kit.

From gska3873 (me):

Like hell it’s not.


From lockjaw:

Well, the offers stilll stands for the STG58 kit + $300. I can also offer the rifle for $1350 shipped.

Based upon my experience with Dan's kit, that would have been unacceptable for a grade I.

If you want to move on, I have other interested parties. Let me know either way.

Eric

From gska3873 (me):

I’d do the STG even up but not +$300. And it is a Dan’s Grade 1 kit. Very typical of all of the ones I have seen.

From lockjaw:

I am being respectful. The condition is not what I would have expected from a Grade I kit. I am not going to argue how or why you came to the conclusion that this is a Grade I kit. I'm not suggesting any deceipt from your end. I am content that I could sell that kit for $650.

I'm sorry if that makes you upset. I am. Or playing games. I want to make a deal with you. I know you will appreciate the rifle, and it will be worth your time.

If you are pissed off and want me to pound sand, that is fine.

Thank you,
Eric


From lockjaw:

Wow, you don't have the respect to return an e-mail after wasting my time. Class act. Moving on.

Good luck.

Eric

From gska3873(me):

Well, Since I was at church until about a half hour or so ago. I also don’t think there is anything more to discuss. You welched on the original deal on top of the fact of basically calling me a liar. I also don’t think your other offers are worth it.

More complete IHC’s can be had for a few hundred more.

From lockjaw:

I didn't call you a lair. Save your passive aggressive quips for someone else.

As you stated before, you don't know much about garlands, and your statement regarding the rifle highlights your ignorance.

Taking into account your actions, I am left to assume that you are upset that I wasn't as ignorant as you assumed and didn't take the bait. Very "Christian-like" of you.

This is a bummer... I offered you a real nice rifle and was willing to work out a fair trade, and you act like this?

Good night and God Bless (for real),
Eric

From gska3873 (me):

Wow, you’re a real class act aren’t you. Take your profiteering elsewhere please.

From lockjaw:

Sell that Grade II Dan's kit for $650, and tell me how much "profiteering" I was doing.

I have a FALfile member loaning me his tools so I can build on either an Argentine receiver that I recently purchased from Mark Graham, or a DSA type I that I purchased back in 2002. I have a couple decent kits to build on, but would have like something nicer. In fact, one of the kits was a Dan's Grade II... and it is much nicer than the kit you sent pix on, and the bolt and carrier both have their original finish, unlike the bolt carrier group in your photos.

I have also owned and built on a few Dan's Grade I kits from back in the day, and the kit you depicted to me IS NOT a Grade I. I'm not giving you $650 trade value for a $500 kit. I should have pulled the plug when you suggested that mixmaster Imbel kits were selling for $500+. If that was the case, you wouldn't have been selling them on Falfiles for $400.

You blew a very equitable trade on an exceptional Garand. It is nobody's fault but your own. I'm sorry that I wasted my time.

Good luck,
Eric

From gska3873 (me):

You obviously are out of touch with reality. Grade 3 Imbel kits have been selling on gunbroker, other sites, and from ARS for anywhere from $500-$550. In fact Mark’s price for them is $525. As far as this being a Dans Grade 1 kit, well, I guess you will just have to take that up with Dan himself. The kit I sold for $400 was passing along a good deal that I got and not looking to profit on something. You know, unlike taking a $930 recently purchased Garand and trying to flip it for $1400. You only wasted your own time Sir.

From lockjaw:

I have been watching the market. Sell you BS to someone else. Sell that kit for $650 and I'll eat crow. Otherwise, piss off.

From gska3873 (me):

Not close enough obviously. I have no reason to sell that kit. Especially not to prove a point to you.

From lockjaw:

You know I'm right and wrong yet you are wrong. Give it up. Good night. Good riddance. God Bless.

From gska3873(me):

You have a joyous evening yourself.

Last edited by gska3873; March 13, 2018 at 15:17.
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Old November 28, 2017, 14:04   #48
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Stellar kit for a Imbel, and I'll let you double your money and give you five hundred shipped .
__________________
What if the Mystery Babalon described in Revelation, which is destroyed by the nations of the North, is actually America?

The biggest problem with religion is those who claim to know Jesus, then turn around and deny Him with their lifestyle. That is what a unbelieving world, simply finds unbelievable.

Before you die, you should have a will with extra copies. The old saying "No one will screw you faster than family" is bloody well true.
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Old November 28, 2017, 14:57   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 308/223shooter View Post
Stellar kit for a Imbel, and I'll let you double your money and give you five hundred shipped .
Spot on... that is what the kit is worth.

I have a stack of old receipts for kits that I had purchased in the past, many form Dan's. Heck, I'm pretty sure I have a receipt with a Grade I, Grade II, and a Grade III on the same receipt, as I wanted to compare the conditions before ordering more.
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Old November 28, 2017, 15:35   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockjaw View Post
Spot on... that is what the kit is worth.

I have a stack of old receipts for kits that I had purchased in the past, many form Dan's. Heck, I'm pretty sure I have a receipt with a Grade I, Grade II, and a Grade III on the same receipt, as I wanted to compare the conditions before ordering more.

I was teasing, thus the smilie face. That kit is worth more than five bills, lesser condition Imbel kits sell for five bills plus. If you have kits that nice for less, sell them in the MP and see how quick they go.
__________________
What if the Mystery Babalon described in Revelation, which is destroyed by the nations of the North, is actually America?

The biggest problem with religion is those who claim to know Jesus, then turn around and deny Him with their lifestyle. That is what a unbelieving world, simply finds unbelievable.

Before you die, you should have a will with extra copies. The old saying "No one will screw you faster than family" is bloody well true.
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