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Old June 09, 2002, 21:20   #1
Wadman
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Exclamation 7.62 Chrono results for FAL rifles (updated w/ Aussie info)

The following results were from 5/24/02 when it was 60 degrees. I was surprised by the results and figured I would wait to retest at a later date.

All tests were ten (10) round groups fired from 10' at a Pact Model 1 chronograph.

IMBEL kit & IMBEL receiver 21" barrel (Rifle A)

Hirtenberger HP-78
Avg. MV: 2642 fps
Std. Dev: 36.4

Portuguese BF 80-28
Avg. MV: 2654 fps
Std. Dev: 24.4

Portuguese BF 80-34
Avg. MV: 2624 fps
Std. Dev: 26.9


STG-58 kit & IMBEL receiver 20.5" barrel (Rifle B)

Hirtenberger HP-78
Avg. MV: 2665 fps
Std. Dev: 14.2

Portuguese BF 80-28
Avg. MV: 2620 fps
Std Dev: 20.7


The following test was conducted this afternoon 6/09/02. It was 91 degrees, sunny, and quite windy. Again, ten shot groups at a Pact Model 1 chronograph.

IMBEL kit & IMBEL receiver 21" barrel (Rifle A)

Portuguese BF 80-34
Avg. MV: 2750 fps
Std. Dev: 27.4

Radway-Green 84 (delinked)
Avg. MV: 2773 fps
Std. Dev: 22.6

DAG 20/79
Avg. MV: 2801 fps
Std. Dev: 11.9

STG-58 kit & IMBEL receiver 20.5" barrel (Rifle B)

Portuguese BF 80-34
Avg. MV: 2746 fps
Std. Dev: 21.2

Radway-Green 84 (delinked)
Avg. MV: 2830 fps
Std. Dev: 25.3

DAG 20/79
Avg. MV: 2752 fps
Std. Dev: 9.9

FN LAR Para 21" barrel (Rifle C)

Portuguese BF 80-28
Avg. MV: 2778 fps
Std Dev: 32.4

Radway-Green 84 (delinked)
Avg. MV: 2798 fps
Std. Dev: 15.4

DAG 20/79
Avg. MV: 2763 fps
Std. Dev: 18.1

DSA SA58 Standard 21" barrel (Rifle D)

Portuguese BF 80-28
Avg. MV: 2762 fps
Std. Dev: 30.9

Radway-Green 84 (delinked)
Avg. MV: 2766 fps
Std. Dev: 20.8

DAG 20/79
Avg. MV: 2775 fps
Std. Dev: 20.9

Last edited by Wadman; June 23, 2003 at 09:16.
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Old June 09, 2002, 21:28   #2
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Notes on the above results

I actually had another rifle, an STG-58 kit built on a DSA receiver, but ran out of ammo. As it was, I didn't have enough to put every brand through every rifle.

The numbers for the DSA rifle and the Para were derived from "cold" rifles. They came out of the case and were fired straight over the chronograph. The other three were fired extensively before chronograph testing. This may have had an affect on the results.

Hirtenberger HP-78 is the termite ammo Berdan primed ammo from SOG.

DAG 20/79 is the German ammo from Century. Part of a widely mixed lot case.

The Portugese lots came from battlepacked cases from AIMsurplus.

RG-84 (delinked) came from Century. It's the 160 round can with 4 rounds linked together.

Last edited by Wadman; April 28, 2003 at 14:48.
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Old June 09, 2002, 23:37   #3
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Interesting!

In my experience, the temperature of the ammo affected velocity, while the temps of the rifle and air didn't, if they could be kept different.

I learned that the hard way, working up ball-buster hot loads for my .30-06 in the late fall, at an outdoor range, the ammo sitting on the bench on the shade for an hour or so before the chrono session, maybe 55 degrees at most.

I shot the same loads from the same 100 round batch at the same range the following August, when it was 95 degrees and the ammo sat in the sun before shooting it. Pressures went way up, the loads were stiff but safe in the cool, but I had to pound the bolt handle up when hot, and it expanded the primer pockets and cratered the primer indentation on the three rounds I shot. Cease fire. I fired the rest of the box later that same fall, after a dusting of snow, and they were fine, again! H-4831 powder under 180 grain Nosler Partitions, W-W braass and LR primers.
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Old June 10, 2002, 00:00   #4
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Ammo baking in the sun or the hot trunk of a car definitely affects it. The rifle itself takes much longer to cool off. To be certain, I'll try it again on a 90 degree day. This time I'll warm up Rifle C and D before shooting for velocities and we'll see what happens.

For calibers that rely on velocity for wounding affects, you have to wonder how much velocity loss there is going from room temperature to, say, 25 degrees Fahrenheit. I posted test results using someone's 16" Bushmaster on the AR15 forum. On a 90 degree day, velocities hovered right around the 3200 fps mark. That's pretty damn good for such a short barrel. What happens when it's below freezing?
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Old June 10, 2002, 07:26   #5
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Wadman,

Thanks for taking your time and thanks for posting.

The Radway Green seemed to shoot more accurate for me, looks like the velocities might have something to do with that.

I found out like Buff did, that temperatures do make a difference.
I too was playing with 30-06. Groups where fine in the winter where temps were around 40 degrees but in the heat of summer,
90 degrees, things change. Hot ammo can make for a real hot load, pressures DO increase, and groups went to the devil.

I was using IMR 4895 and W748. The W748 didn't seem to be affected as much as the IMR4895, don't know the reason other than the W748 is a ball powder, maybe that had something to do with it.
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Old June 10, 2002, 10:24   #6
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Many thanks for the info.

Anyone know what kind of powder these rounds (Hirt, Port, DAG, RG) use? Would be interesting to know if they're stick (single-base or double-base) or ball.
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Old June 10, 2002, 10:46   #7
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DAG was ball powder. I'll get back to you on the others.
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Old June 10, 2002, 11:16   #8
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Scott,

In the "search" look under Military Ammo/Velocities Data

On second thought, don't bother. I tried and could get it. I had
a few breakdowns on the MilSurp stuff, Hirt, Radway, SA and Port
Darnit, now I can't find it

Ah ha! I did find it. MilSurp Ammo & Velocities
Thread Starter "One Above" Mar 22 02

Hirt. Tubular Powder
Radway - Tubular, but smaller tubes than Hirt
SA tubular
Port Ball powder
Cavim -Ball powder
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Old June 10, 2002, 14:02   #9
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Well just think what a 25 kilo round will do because of temp increasing. That is the very reason the M1 series of tanks have a thermometer in the ammo rack. When you boresight you input the ammo temp into the computer. Computer takes this into account when computing super elevation to target.
Try some ammo that you have in your freezer ie. 25 degrees, then your fridge 45 degrees, room temp 70 and then in the trunk of your car 120 degrees. This could be real interesting looking at the freezer velocities vs. the car trunk.
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Old June 10, 2002, 14:38   #10
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Another fun thing to try would be to shoot 5 shots through the chrony with the gas plug set for grenade, and then 5 shots with the gas plug in the normal position. This question has been asked several times on how much velocity is lost to the gas system. If I had a chrony I would try it myself. So if anyone has tried this I would be curious to see the results. Or if you get bored give it a try.
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Old June 11, 2002, 10:50   #11
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Quick question - I hear that brit milsurp (presumably Radway Green) is a bit weak but the numbers don't show that? Any ideas?

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Old June 11, 2002, 11:00   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smiffo
Quick question - I hear that brit milsurp (presumably Radway Green) is a bit weak but the numbers don't show that? Any ideas?
Smiffo
Yes, that comment has been said more than a few times. Usually it's regarding the required gas setting. Some people have said they have to dial in more gas to the system for correct functioning, therefore the velocity must be less.

My own testing with a wide cross section of FAL type rifles has not borne this out. I have not had to dial in more gas to the system and all rounds ejected as briskly as anything else. And no, I'm not running my rifles with near maximum gas pressure. Is this just another firearm myth like the tumbled ammo myth? I prefer to let the numbers decide.
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Old June 11, 2002, 12:24   #13
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Thanks Wadman

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Old June 11, 2002, 14:28   #14
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Thanks, gents.

I know that tubular powder comes in both single- and double-base flavors. I thought all ball powders were double-base (I know W748 is), but I don't remember and don't have my loading books handy. I wonder if double-base powders are inherently more temp stable than single-base?
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Old January 24, 2003, 12:06   #15
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Heres some other chrono to add to Wadmans



http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...mmo+Velocities

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Old April 28, 2003, 15:05   #16
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Test conducted 4/27/03, 75 degrees, sunny. Chronograph used was a CED Millenium at 10 feet.

DSA /STG kitgun, 21" barrel

DAG lot 20/79
Avg. MV: 2756
Std. Dev.: 12

Port BF 80-28
Avg. MV: 2698
Std. Dev.: 25

Port BF 80-34
Avg. MV: 2674
Std. Dev.: 21

Port FNM 80-11
Avg. MV: 2706
Std. Dev.: 22

Hirtenberger HP-78
Avg. MV: 2695
Std. Dev.: 19

Radway-Green RG 78
Avg. MV: 2725
Std. Dev.: 22

Radway-Green RG 84
Avg. MV: 2753
Std. Dev.: 24

Results for an M1A for comparison

Springfield-Armory M1A 22 barrel

Radway-Green RG-84
1) 2813 6) 2761
2) 2789 7) 2817
3) 2811 8) 2792
4) 2753 9) 2818
5) 2793 10) 2794

Avg. 2794
S.D. 22

DAG lot 20/79
1) 2834 6) 2817
2) 2821 7) 2820
3) 2813 8) 2827
4) 2803 9) 2810
5) 2809 10) 2819

Avg. 2817
S.D. 9

Hirtenberger HP 78
1) 2768 6) 2755
2) 2769 7) 2756
3) 2797 8) 2771
4) 2758 9) 2714
5) 2748

Avg. 2759
S.D. 22

Port FNM 80-11]
1) 2769 6) 2769
2) 2774 7) 2783
3) 2775 8) 2768
4) 2781 9) 2777
5) 2779 10) 2792

Avg. 2776
S.D. 7

Port BF 80-34
1) 2770 6) 2772
2) 2762 7) 2766
3) 2801 8) 2740
4) 2758 9) 2760
5) 2783 10) 2740

Avg. 2765
S.D. 18

Port BF 80-28
1) 2803 6) 2732
2) 2737 7) 2737
3) 2749 8) 2749
4) 2781 9) 2781
5) 2746 10) 2746

Avg. 2760
S.D. 24

168 grain Sierra MK, 43 grains IMR 4064 (LC 91 brass)
1) 2607 6) 2634
2) 2602 7) 2601
3) 2616 8) 2660
4) 2622 9) 2646
5) 2611 10) 2621

Avg. 2622
S.D. 19

162 grain M2 AP, 43 grains IMR 4064 (LC brass)
1) 2694 5) 2677
2) 2696 6) 2682
3) 2703 7) 2712
4) 2688 8) 2722

Avg. 2696
S.D. 15

Last edited by Wadman; April 30, 2003 at 07:51.
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Old June 23, 2003, 09:11   #17
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Comparison of 18" FAL versus 21" FAL, 6-20-2003
Buffalo Rock Range, 72 degrees


Imbel/Imbel kitgun 21 barrel

Cavim 92
1) 2737.0
2) 2715.0
3) 2727.0
4) 2744.0
5) 2728.0
6) 2737.0
7) 2738.0
Ave.: 2732.2
S.D.: 9.6

DAG 4/84
1) 2726.0
2) 2716.0
3) 2691.0
4) 2720.0
5) 2720.0
6) 2703.0
7) 2720.0
8) 2719.0
9) 2664.0
10) 2708.0
Ave.: 2708.6
S.D.: 18.8

Radway-Green, RG 84
1) 2806.0
2) 2790.0
3) 2783.0
4) 2757.0
5) 2774.0
6) 2779.0
7) 2760.0
8) 2762.0
9) 2780.0
10) 2742.0
Ave.: 2773.2
S.D.: 18.4

Hirtenberger, HP 78
1) 2709.0
2) 2712.0
3) 2709.0
4) 2703.0
5) 2710.0
6) 2691.0
7) 2705.0
8) 2710.0
9) 2703.0
10) 2675.0
Ave.: 2702.6
S.D.: 11.4

Santa Barbara, SB 79
1) 2722.0
2) 2695.0
3) 2740.0
4) 2688.0
5) 2706.0
6) 2706.0
7) 2740.0
Ave.: 2713.8
S.D.: 20.6

Portuguese BF 80-28
1) 2696.0
2) 2771.0
3) 2700.0
4) 2722.0
5) 2656.0
6) 2681.0
7) 2645.0
8) 2658.0
Ave.: 2691.0
S.D.: 41.2

Portuguese, BF 80-34
1) 2754.0
2) 2686.0
3) 2704.0
4) 2723.0
5) 2701.0
6) 2756.0
7) 2737.0
8) 2704.0
9) 2737.0
10) 2755.0
Ave.: 2725.6
S.D.: 25.6

DAG 20/79
1) 2770.0
2) 2757.0
3) 2762.0
4) 2731.0
5) 2754.0
Ave.: 2754.8
S.D.: 14.6


Entreprise/STG Kitgun, 18 barrel

CAVIM 92
1) 2653.0
2) 2684.0
3) 2663.0
4) 2676.0
5) 2653.0
6) 2693.0
7) 2680.0
8) 2692.0
9) 2677.0
Ave.: 2674.4
S.D.: 15.0

Radway-Green RG 84
1) 2723.0
2) 2691.0
3) 2679.0
4) 2697.0
5) 2726.0
6) 2692.0
7) 2709.0
8) 2733.0
9) 2698.0
Ave.: 2705.2
S.D.: 18.4

DAG 20/79
1) 2717.0
2) 2706.0
3) 2702.0
4) 2688.0
5) 2681.0
Ave.: 2698.8
S.D.: 14.2

Hirtenberger HP 78
1) 2628.0
2) 2617.0
3) 2600.0
4) 2640.0
5) 2630.0
6) 2598.0
7) 2634.0
8) 2608.0
9) 2607.0
10) 2620.0
Ave.: 2618.2
S.D.: 14.6

Santa Barbara SB 79
1) 2648.0
2) 2595.0
3) 2563.0
4) 2562.0
5) 2595.0
6) 2617.0
7) 2632.0
8) 2624.0
9) 2588.0
10) 2662.0
11) 2627.0
12) 2633.0
13) 2590.0
14) 2567.0
15) 2622.0
Ave.: 2608.2
S.D.: 31.0

Portuguese BF 80-28
1) 2649.0
2) 2634.0
3) 2644.0
4) 2594.0
5) 2640.0
6) 2601.0
7) 2626.0
8) 2593.0
9) 2640.0
10) 2649.0
Ave.: 2627.0
S.D.: 22.4

Portuguese BF 80-34
1) 2667.0
2) 2598.0
3) 2650.0
4) 2578.0
5) 2650.0
6) 2600.0
7) 2574.0
8) 2603.0
9) 2612.0
10) 2637.0
Ave.: 2616.8
S.D.: 32.0

DAG 4/84
1) 2654.0
2) 2616.0
3) 2660.0
4) 2674.0
5) 2651.0
Ave.: 2651.0
S.D.: 21.4
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Old August 11, 2003, 08:53   #18
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Aussie Velocities-finally

Well I finally got to the range. Aussie '88
2806,2790,2782.2778.2800,2768,2783,2793,2776, and the final shot that blew
all the averages to hell 3111fps.

80 degrees, overcast, humidity 85 percent, slight northeast breeze. I couldn't hit the bullseye at 100 yards! I was all over the place! Went home skaking my head and started cleaning guns. I don't why I looked at the front sight but I did and discovered it was teeter-tottering The front screw was loose and so was my sight! Well.....back to the range.

21" barrel (naked)

more stats on the aussie ammo http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...mmo+Velocities
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Old August 11, 2003, 09:10   #19
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Deduct 50fps and you get my results with a 19 inch barrel. Accuracy was excellent.
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Old August 12, 2003, 13:53   #20
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Indian & Aussie ammo

Went P-dog shooting in Rocky Ford, Colo., and brought the STG-58 to bust some caps, all this from sand bags.Temp approx 95 degrees.
My Bushmaster AR-15 carefully reloaded ammo put all ejected brass in a nice2ft circle.
The FAL was shot with Indian & Aussie. The Aussie brass was in a 4ft by 6ft area. The Indian was anywhere from 4ft to 26ft by 16ft wide. I didn't chrono the loads, but I'll bet the the Indian is all over the map.
I had no split neck, case separations, failures to eject. Just a hard time finding the brass. The gas setting for the Aussie 3.5, Indian 2.5.
It all went bang.
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Old August 12, 2003, 21:35   #21
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Muggzy,

Thanks for the Chrono work.

Have you weighed one of the AFF 88 bullets more recently? Your linked thread shows the weight at 146.2 grains, and I wonder if it is correct or possibly a typo.

A couple of AFF19-9-88 I've weighed come in at 144.1 and 144.6. One from my batch of MF26-8-83 weighed 143.9.

I don't think the FALs will care, but I'm curious if the variation is that large.

Thanks,
Joe
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Old August 13, 2003, 05:23   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by shootist87122
Muggzy,

Thanks for the Chrono work.

Have you weighed one of the AFF 88 bullets more recently? Your linked thread shows the weight at 146.2 grains, and I wonder if it is correct or possibly a typo.

A couple of AFF19-9-88 I've weighed come in at 144.1 and 144.6. One from my batch of MF26-8-83 weighed 143.9.

I don't think the FALs will care, but I'm curious if the variation is that large.

Thanks,
Joe
Well....I'll just pull a couple of more tonight and post the finding on thursday.

How-dat?

FYI- I am weighing on a Lyman LE-1000 digital scale and weight was check'd with Lyman "check weights" prior to weighing.
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Old August 15, 2003, 05:58   #23
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OK Shootist87122 I remeasured, recalibrated, rethought

I'm not sure I have an explanation for the results. I did recalibrate the
scales. I did not do that with the first round of measurements as I have done with the others. I did take some rubbing alcohol and cleaned the sealer off of the bullet. I did pull two more bullets for comparision.

case weight with primer 185.2 new measurement of the original case
2nd case with primer 185.7
3rd case with primer 188.1

Original bullet 144.5 new measurement
2nd bullet 145.4
3rd bullet 144.0

Original powder couldn't remeasure 'cause I through the powder in the sump pit the original measurement was 43.4gr

2nd powder 43.5 gr
3rd powder 43.4 gr

I feel dumb for posting incorrect information. Glad you asked me about it. I feel that maybe the sealer on the bullet AND the fact I had not
recalibrated the scales where the two things I did incorrectly. I will go back
and edit the other post on the "stat" thread. Thanks again for calling this to my attention. I want to contribute something to the FILES... this and giving Jens a few bucks is my way of contributing (and biting my tongue sometimes )

Muggzy
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Old August 15, 2003, 07:49   #24
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Muggzy,

Thanks for the re-test. Believe me, it is easy to get crossed up when recording a series of numbers - I do it all the time.

BTW, my Pact digital will read as much as .5 off if the air conditioner (or furnace) fan is running. I keep a 50.1 grain .223 bullet beside my scale and use it as a "sanity check" a few times every session. I even re-check with this after I re-calibrate with the Pact check weights.

Good info - and makes me feel better about the QC on the Aussie.
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Old August 15, 2003, 10:45   #25
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Link to Muggzy's Aussie Ammo Chrono results
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Old August 15, 2003, 11:51   #26
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Shootist87122,

I hear ya on the re-check. I have a set of a check weights and use them most of time before I start any new operation. I recalibrate the scale each time I move it. Why I didn't do it this time I don't know. I was thinking ....maybe....
it was the Marguaritas

The ammo according to the weights and measures should be accurate. Now that I have my front sight set screw where it's suppose to be I'll give the range test another go.
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Old August 26, 2003, 11:05   #27
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8/22/03 Test, 80 degrees, 10 rounds each, CED Millenium Chronograph

Other previously tested ammo makes were also chronographed as control groups.

STG Kit / Imbel Type 3 20.5

Aussie AF 88
S.D.: 15
Ave.: 2725

Aussie MF F4 83
Ave.: 2710.0
S.D.: 20.8

Radway-Green RG 78
Ave.: 2751.0
S.D.: 23

Portuguese BF 80-34
Ave.: 2694.0
S.D.: 22

Cavim 92
Ave.: 2757.0
S.D.: 12

DAG 4/84
Ave.: 2710.0
S.D.: 20.8

Hirtenberger HP 78
Ave.: 2689.4
S.D.: 19.6

STG Kit / Entreprise Type 3 18

Aussie AFF 88
Ave.: 2664.8
S.D.: 12.6

Aussie MF F4 83
Ave.: 2666.8
S.D.: 21.2

DAG 4/84
Ave.: 2648.8
S.D.: 16.6

Cavim 92
Ave.: 2703.8
S.D.: 11.8

Last edited by Wadman; August 26, 2003 at 16:04.
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Old October 15, 2003, 13:55   #28
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I figured I throw some more results in here.


Just for a lark, I shot 5 rds of Port, headstamped BF 80-27 out of my Savage 112 w/ 24" barrel. Average velocity of 2962. Zippy little bugger, shot about 1.25 MOA at 100 m.
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Old October 15, 2003, 14:39   #29
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Three more inches of barrel sure added a lot of velocity. What was the air temperature?
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Old October 15, 2003, 14:50   #30
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Temp this morning was in the low to mid 70's, and approximately 15' above sea level. I'm also curious what velocity differences are due to a bolt gun vs. semi-auto.
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Old December 26, 2005, 18:53   #31
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First, a big THANK YOU to Wadman and Muggzy. Outsanding job, guys.

I'm really surprised at the ~100fps diff between 18" and 21" bbls. I'd figured more, but y'all set the record straight.

Now I'm off to search for any velocity diff between Grenade and Auto settings...


-josh
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Old February 20, 2007, 23:50   #32
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More Aussie:

Imbel on Imbel 21"


Aussie MF 83 #1 of 2
Ave.: 2,721
S.D.: 33

Aussie MF 83 # 2 of 2
Ave.: 2,730
S.D.: 25

Aussie AFF 91
Ave.: 2,756
S.D.: 10.7

Aussie ADI 92
Ave.: 2,730
S.D.: 14.0
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Old February 21, 2007, 00:05   #33
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shootist.........what was the temp during your shoot?

I recently shot some Aussie 83 from my Imbel on Imbel w/21" barrel. The temp was 55 degrees.

Average Vel.............. 2701

SD............................7.3

some Remington Factory 150 gn in the same rifle

Average Vel............2752
SD..........................22

As I get more time, I will have more info from my new Chrony!!
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Old February 21, 2007, 20:00   #34
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Sig,

My notes indicate temps in the low 50's for the Aussie 91 & 92. I did not book the temps on the MF 83, but IIRC is was about mid 50s to 60 the day I ran those.

FWIW I ran a short string of R1M1 81 on the same day (same rifle) with the MF 83 and it averaged 2,711 fps; SD 35. This was 20-30 fps faster than some from the same lot as Splatter reported last November (also through a FAL).

Joe
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Old March 09, 2008, 16:25   #35
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good info, thanks
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Old July 02, 2011, 22:50   #36
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Had the chrono with me today but not the FAL.
There were a couple of clips of Radway Green in the bag though:

Temp: 88 deg.
Chrono: ProChrono
Distance from muzzle: 15ft
Rifle: Savage 112 - 26" bbl

L2A2 RG 95

2898
2873
2867
2898
2892
2898
2873
2936
2956
2930

Avg: 2902
ES: 89
StDev: 29

The ammo was kept in the shade but the rifle was not (giving it time to cool was not especially effective); may explain the trend of rising velocity.

Updated to add data from the FAL:

Temp: 94 deg.
Chrono: ProChrono
Distance from muzzle: 15ft
Rifle: DSA FAL - 21" bbl

L2A2 RG 95
2737
2760
2749
2777
2749
2760
2743
2795
2789
2766
2766

Avg: 2763
ES: 58
StDev: 18

Found a shadier spot this time.
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Old April 09, 2012, 11:45   #37
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Chrono'd today at 10 feet and 60 degrees.

Privi 145 grain out of the L1A1 was 2,623 FPS

The following are out of my SCAR.

Privi 145 grain

2,534 FPS ES 62.5 SD 23.32

MEN 89-1

2,520 FPS ES 45.13 SD 18.86

Port....dunno lot/date

2,488 FPS ES 28.04 SD 11.91
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Old April 14, 2012, 16:57   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefferyc22 View Post
Chrono'd today at 10 feet and 60 degrees.

Privi 145 grain out of the L1A1 was 2,623 FPS

The following are out of my SCAR.

Privi 145 grain

2,534 FPS ES 62.5 SD 23.32

MEN 89-1

2,520 FPS ES 45.13 SD 18.86

Port....dunno lot/date

2,488 FPS ES 28.04 SD 11.91
Does your L1A1 have a full length barrel?
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Old April 14, 2012, 23:31   #39
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Does your L1A1 have a full length barrel?
Yes it's an original L1A1 barrel. Does it seem slow? I will be chrono some mil rounds thru it in the future.
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Old April 15, 2012, 15:38   #40
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Yes it's an original L1A1 barrel. Does it seem slow? I will be chrono some mil rounds thru it in the future.
At first I would suspect the ammo in the seemingly low velocities but the Prvi ammo seemed about right in SCAR. I have seen some "slow" FAL's and L1A1's, so it might be the rifle. Some military ammo of known quality might be a better test of the rifle's velocity.
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Old April 16, 2012, 19:59   #41
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Privi 145 was 2,915 FPS out of my 26" Savage 12.
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Old April 16, 2012, 20:13   #42
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Privi 145 was 2,915 FPS out of my 26" Savage 12.
That's about right for a 26 inch barrel bolt action. The SCAR velocity looks right. The L1A1 seems a bit slow but I have seen other FAL's that slow with surplus military ammo. See the first post of this thread. It may be the way the chamber is shaped. Sometimes I've seen lower velocities with a worn hammer spring even though there's no hang fire.
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Old May 03, 2012, 17:09   #43
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Aussie '91 - 21" Argy Bbi and 16" SCAR 17

Out today with Coulter6 and his SCAR 17. We chronographed some AFF '91 Aussie using my 3-Gun FAL /w 21" Argentine Para Barrel against his 16" SCAR 17. Both guns started with cold dirty barrels and were run back to back.

PACT Chronograph [this one ran close, but a little slower when tested against another brand.]

Temp 65*
Range altitude is 5,207' per my Android, DA was ~7,200'.

21" 3-G FAL /w Argy Bbl, 8 shots:

Avg = 2,797 fps

H = 2,833
L = 2,783
ES = 50.6
SD = 16.3


16" SCAR 17s, 8 shots

Avg = 2,609

H = 2,679
L = 2,574
ES = 105
SD = 32.7

With these specific rifles using Aussie '91 from the same lot the velocity loss from a 21" FAL barrel to the 16" FN was 188 fps. Assuming the true difference in bbl length is 5", that's 37.6 fps per inch.

The Argy barrel appears a little faster than what I recorded for my 21 Imbel barrel several years ago with a different lot of ammo, but from the same year. About half of that difference could be temperature related.

For S&G I put a few rounds from both rifles on a 12" gong at 600 meters just to compare accuracy with this specific ammo. Using 9 power (VXR Patrol) for the FAL Vs at 4.5x (Mk4 MR/T) for the SCAR. The SCAR had a better hit percentage at 4 for 5 - once I found the hold point. The FAL was roughly 50% discounting the first shot or two to figure the wind.


[Below was posted on the Files several years ago; temp was "about" 50*.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by shootist87122 View Post
More Aussie
Imbel on Imbel 21"

Aussie AFF 91
Ave.: 2,756
S.D.: 10.7

Aussie ADI 92
Ave.: 2,730
S.D.: 14.0
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Old May 03, 2012, 19:56   #44
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Did some chrono work of my own today using my OEHLER Mod 35 Proof chrono. Conditions where quite good. Steady breeze (5 mph or so I'd guess), temps in the low 80's, and mostly sunny skies.. Sky screens set aprox 10-12' from muzzle..

Gun is my MUTT build assembled by me with an ARGY 21" Barrel, it was dirty from my last range trip and cold when I started.. This barrel always seem to show good velocities and has proven to be quite accurate..

Only ran three rounds of this in order to save it for accuracy testing next trip, even so it looks pretty good...


Chrono results from 82 FNM (PORT) one of my newest hand-loads, and some Old CAVIM for an added bit of info..

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Old June 23, 2012, 18:13   #45
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Somebody needs to chrono SA thru a 21" FAL.
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Old June 23, 2012, 18:43   #46
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Originally Posted by jefferyc22 View Post
Somebody needs to chrono SA thru a 21" FAL.
Lemme check my notes, pretty sure I have?
If not I'll try to do so ASAP..
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Old June 24, 2012, 09:48   #47
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I've chrono'd a couple of different lots of S.A. R1M1 in 21" FALs. Don't have my notes, but it was "around" 75 fps slower than Aussie surplus on the same day. ('91 Aussie runs 2,750 to 2,800 fps depending on the temp and specific barrel.)

At 81* in the 16" SCAR-17S, my '81 R1M1 averaged 2,540 fps for an 8 shot string, which is ~60 fps slower than '91 Aussie in the same gun.
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Old March 10, 2013, 12:05   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DYNOMIKE View Post
Did some chrono work of my own today using my OEHLER Mod 35 Proof chrono. Conditions where quite good. Steady breeze (5 mph or so I'd guess), temps in the low 80's, and mostly sunny skies.. Sky screens set aprox 10-12' from muzzle..

Gun is my MUTT build assembled by me with an ARGY 21" Barrel, it was dirty from my last range trip and cold when I started.. This barrel always seem to show good velocities and has proven to be quite accurate..

Only ran three rounds of this in order to save it for accuracy testing next trip, even so it looks pretty good...


Chrono results from 82 FNM (PORT) one of my newest hand-loads, and some Old CAVIM for an added bit of info..

Sweet! Nice to see chrono work continuing on this thread.
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