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Old March 31, 2016, 05:50   #1
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Mesa AZ:Unarmed man killed by Arizona cop cried, begged for life

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An unarmed man who was shot and killed by an Arizona police officer in January cried, complied with police orders and begged for his life before the fatal firing, according to a newly released police report.

Mesa Police Officer Philip Brailsford has been charged with second-degree murder for the death of Daniel Shaver, a 26-year-old Texas man. Authorities have declined to release Brailsford’s body cam footage from the deadly encounter
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/...cid=spartandhp
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Old March 31, 2016, 07:54   #2
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It'll keep happening.
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"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
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Old March 31, 2016, 08:53   #3
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Well,

At least there is some justice. The murderer was fired and is being prosecuted. Doubt he'll last long in gen pop. It would be fitting that he's crying and sees the shank coming when G Reaper visits him. What an A-hole.

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Old March 31, 2016, 09:27   #4
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Sounds like the victim didn't exactly help his cause with all the goofy behavior he was doing. I'd have to hear more about it but it wasn't like this guy was just walking down the street minding his own business and the cop came up and whacked him.
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Old March 31, 2016, 09:49   #5
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Well,

If the article reads the way it happened the guy was crawling on his belly and was shot five times. If that's ok with you, please fill out your Gestapo application, your jack boots are waiting.

There is a reason the murderer was fired i.e..undefendable actions and is being prosecuted for murder. Not to mention the camera footage not being released.

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Old March 31, 2016, 10:07   #6
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Well,

If the article reads the way it happened the guy was crawling on his belly and was shot five times. If that's ok with you, please fill out your Gestapo application, your jack boots are waiting.

There is a reason the murderer was fired i.e..undefendable actions and is being prosecuted for murder. Not to mention the camera footage not being released.

Thorack
you can bet it will be on like a pot of neck bones if that video gets out
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Old March 31, 2016, 10:18   #7
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Well,

If the article reads the way it happened the guy was crawling on his belly and was shot five times. If that's ok with you, please fill out your Gestapo application, your jack boots are waiting.
The SS would have shot him once in the back of the head with a 9mm, not 5 times with an AR.



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Old March 31, 2016, 14:01   #8
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This was on local talk radio yesterday - the guy was a traveling sales type person for a pest company, he had some fellow business people in his room (one man one woman) and they were doing shots, he had a PELLET gun in the room and was showing it to the guests - other hotel guests saw "A GUN - (scoped rifle)" and reported it to the front desk who then called the police. POPO showed up and confronted the drunk salesman who had loose pants, he was trying to pull them up the SECOND time when he was shot - POPO thought he was reaching for a piece.

Evidently this is such an egregious case of excessive use of force that the DA sealed the body cam footage - wouldn't let the wife see it, said it was hard for THEM to watch it - charged the cop with 2nd degree murder - and MPD FIRED HIM prior to him being charged.

Bad cop.

The victim BTW was a middle age white dude with a young family, the city will probably be out $6mm+ when the dust clears and the lawsuits are settled.
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Old March 31, 2016, 16:27   #9
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Sounds like the murderer might still get a sweet plea deal out of it.
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Old March 31, 2016, 16:56   #10
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maybe but I wouldn't bet on it - the prosecutor is pissed.
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Old March 31, 2016, 17:14   #11
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Maybe Sheriff Joe will save his ass
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Old March 31, 2016, 17:39   #12
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Originally Posted by gates View Post

The victim BTW was a middle age white dude with a young family, the city will probably be out $6mm+ when the dust clears and the lawsuits are settled.
It will keep happening.
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"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
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Old March 31, 2016, 17:57   #13
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Meh, it's just another white guy.

Makes you think twice about the next time you are going to a shoot and drag your stuff up to the room.
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Old March 31, 2016, 18:13   #14
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Makes you think twice about doing shots whilst wearing baggy pants
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Old March 31, 2016, 18:17   #15
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Makes you think twice about complying at all in the first place.

On multiple levels.
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"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
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Old March 31, 2016, 18:52   #16
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Makes you think twice about complying at all in the first place.

On multiple levels.
No revenge if you don't survive the initial episode. Cue up Behind Blue Eyes. I can't right now.
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Old April 01, 2016, 02:19   #17
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Call me a cold hearted bastard, but this was probably for the best. Had a dead bird he had shot in the gun case? What was that supposed to be, some kind of trophy? Mentally disturbed.

Sorry, I don't give a damn about that guy. karma at work. His family will be better of with the settlement and Mom can go marry a real daddy for the kids.
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Old April 01, 2016, 06:23   #18
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Well,

One more confirmation RSU is certifiably F'ING NUTZ! Dude get back on your meds your crazy is showing.

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Old April 01, 2016, 08:33   #19
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Call me a cold hearted bastard, but this was probably for the best. Had a dead bird he had shot in the gun case? What was that supposed to be, some kind of trophy? Mentally disturbed.

Sorry, I don't give a damn about that guy. karma at work. His family will be better of with the settlement and Mom can go marry a real daddy for the kids.
OR maybe his contract requires him to present the evidence of a kill. Or maybe they send it for testing to see if it carried disease. Or maybe he has a friend in taxidermy. Or maybe the cop needs to spend life in prison.
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Old April 01, 2016, 08:46   #20
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MPD FIRED HIM prior to him being charged.
prolly reduces this guy's defense resources significantly, and ends his income on the spot.
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Old April 01, 2016, 09:05   #21
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It will keep happening.
Of course it will. Not through genuine malice (in 99.9999999% of the cases) but because the police are the people and the people are the police. Cops aren't beamed down from outer space; they are a product of humanity which means they make mistakes.

Just like the 'kin moron who blew his leg off with Tannerite the other day or any number of idiots who drive drunk or high or the doctors who kill hundreds of thousands of Americans every year through malpractice and mistakes.

Unfortunately, while we have this stupid "war on drugs" and a bunch of unneeded laws on the books, we have to hire more peace officers than are really necessary to keep our communities safer, investigate real crime and try to control the dumb ass DWI drivers. Larger need for cops mean some folks who simply shouldn't be cops get hired. When they f*ck up, people get hurt and so do the taxpayers. In this case, the former cop is rightfully looking like he's going to go to jail for a long time but the family of the guy is emotionally torn apart, the city and the taxpayers are going to take it in the shorts and the anti-cop folks have more grist for the mill. No winners here.

And RSU; seriously? WTF?
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Old April 01, 2016, 09:32   #22
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"Call me a cold hearted bastard, but this was probably for the best. Had a dead bird he had shot in the gun case? What was that supposed to be, some kind of trophy? Mentally disturbed.

Sorry, I don't give a damn about that guy. karma at work. His family will be better of with the settlement and Mom can go marry a real daddy for the kids."


Cold hearted bastard.
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Old April 01, 2016, 10:49   #23
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Cop shot him 5 times with a friggen ar15... Seriously
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Old April 01, 2016, 12:28   #24
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The cop shouldn't have shot him, BUT the guy did get them out them in the first place.

When you have a gun and are acting stupid with it the cops come out, and they're ready to shoot.
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Old April 01, 2016, 22:44   #25
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Scottsdale PD is ok - as long as you are white, and live in Scottsdale I'm golden. I'm still not calling them, I'll be damned if I get plugged by some trigger happy 100 I.Q. wearing a badge.
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Old April 02, 2016, 01:00   #26
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Most of the local LEOs know who I am, and just call me when the asshat next door complains about me shooting on my property. Guess he doesn't feel safe trespassing when down range of my little shop.
Glad I live in the rural county instead of the uber civilized big city.
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Old April 02, 2016, 01:45   #27
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The cop shouldn't have shot him, BUT the guy did get them out them in the first place.

When you have a gun and are acting stupid with it the cops come out, and they're ready to shoot.
A pellet rifle is not a "gun".
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Old April 02, 2016, 23:56   #28
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It must have been pretty egregious for his dept. to fire him before he was tried - he gets his day in court but the "Blue Wall" decided it was bad enough to "cut bait" and the Prosecutor won't even allow the widow to see the body cam footage - this may cost Mesa AZ taxpayers $10mm...

And the cop - if it's as bad as has been alluded to in local news, needs to do the full 20 for 2nd degree.
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Old April 03, 2016, 10:23   #29
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Of course it will. Not through genuine malice (in 99.9999999% of the cases) but because the police are the people and the people are the police. Cops aren't beamed down from outer space; they are a product of humanity which means they make mistakes.

Just like the 'kin moron who blew his leg off with Tannerite the other day or any number of idiots who drive drunk or high or the doctors who kill hundreds of thousands of Americans every year through malpractice and mistakes.

Unfortunately, while we have this stupid "war on drugs" and a bunch of unneeded laws on the books, we have to hire more peace officers than are really necessary to keep our communities safer, investigate real crime and try to control the dumb ass DWI drivers. Larger need for cops mean some folks who simply shouldn't be cops get hired. When they f*ck up, people get hurt and so do the taxpayers. In this case, the former cop is rightfully looking like he's going to go to jail for a long time but the family of the guy is emotionally torn apart, the city and the taxpayers are going to take it in the shorts and the anti-cop folks have more grist for the mill. No winners here.
Hey, the gman! Nice to see you.

Agreed, cops aren't perfect. Agreed, we can't expect anyone to be. Agreed that most mistakes are not the product of malice. Agreed that the War on Drugs and other (intentionally) bad policy makes for bad policing, as well as a police pool that is (in some cases) sub-par.

This particular case doesn't look like a guy who "made a mistake". His rifle is engraved, "You're F*(^ed" or something like it. He shot a man five times while he lay on the ground begging for his life. Uh...

My point is that cases like this, and cases like the cop in SC who shot the fleeing man in the back seven or eight times, and the cop in KY who jumped on the 18 year old girls car and shot her 5 times through the windshield, and the cop who just smoked the kid trying to drive away from a dope bust in the Wendy's parking lot? They'll keep happening until it becomes personally expensive to the cop.

In this case, they are: a) firing him, and b) charging him with murder 2. If he gets convicted, then that is "expensive" enough - it is what the law requires. In the case of the other four examples? I think the department "investigated" itself and found that the officer had done no wrong.

And when this ^ happens, it tells cops that that behavior is acceptable. The people (victims' families?) have to let the cops know that it is, in fact, not acceptable. Or it will keep happening.
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"How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: what would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had simply not sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, ham- mers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. . . . The Organs [police] would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers . . . and notwithstanding all of Stalin‘s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt." - A. Solzhenitsyn, Gulag Archipelago
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Old April 03, 2016, 16:18   #30
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Hey, the gman! Nice to see you.

Agreed, cops aren't perfect. Agreed, we can't expect anyone to be. Agreed that most mistakes are not the product of malice. Agreed that the War on Drugs and other (intentionally) bad policy makes for bad policing, as well as a police pool that is (in some cases) sub-par.

This particular case doesn't look like a guy who "made a mistake". His rifle is engraved, "You're F*(^ed" or something like it. He shot a man five times while he lay on the ground begging for his life. Uh...

My point is that cases like this, and cases like the cop in SC who shot the fleeing man in the back seven or eight times, and the cop in KY who jumped on the 18 year old girls car and shot her 5 times through the windshield, and the cop who just smoked the kid trying to drive away from a dope bust in the Wendy's parking lot? They'll keep happening until it becomes personally expensive to the cop.

In this case, they are: a) firing him, and b) charging him with murder 2. If he gets convicted, then that is "expensive" enough - it is what the law requires. In the case of the other four examples? I think the department "investigated" itself and found that the officer had done no wrong.

And when this ^ happens, it tells cops that that behavior is acceptable. The people (victims' families?) have to let the cops know that it is, in fact, not acceptable. Or it will keep happening.
I disagree. It will keep happening until we have better selection, training and leadership. Of those three, selection and leadership are the key. We get better candidates when we pay them more, increase the age limit for hiring from 21 to at least 28, improve the selection process to include stressful situations and ensure we have a process to hold candidates and then officers accountable.

I travel extensively for training and get to mix with many different officers from agencies around the country. At the end of this month, I'm going to be in LA to shadow LAPD's Robbery/Homicide detectives for a week and I just got back from a class with folks from all over NM, CO and as far away as CA, NY and AL. Universally, the vast majority of cops don't want to shoot ANYONE. In today's climate, you are going to be under the spotlight for any shooting or even a use of force if the person whom you strike, throw on the ground or Tase is a member of a protected class or it gets picked up by the media. More than likely you are going to get sued, you are going to be off work and the worry you suffer while the investigation is going to take a toll on your mental health.

I've been extensively trained in Officer Involved Shootings (OIS) and have investigated and/or studied multiple shootings by officers, citizens and criminals. Many of the cops and citizens didn't expect to find themselves in the position they did, were poorly prepared for it and did not make good decisions under stress. Whose fault is that? The cop or citizen or the agency? Many times, certainly with cops, it is the agency and the leadership who should shoulder most of the blame with the cop taking responsibility for his own actions. In the military, once we identified an individual who had difficulty operating under pressure, he was removed from the position where he had that responsibility. I see no difference here.

I do not know what kind of training the agency gave this officer in particular but his leadership failed in allowing him to have (as is my understanding) a dust cover with the words you mentioned engraved upon it. This speaks to mindset; if you don't already know that kind of thing is inappropriate for an officer to have on your rifle, I can't teach you that but I can, as a supervisor, tell you to take that off the rifle then follow up with why you thought it was appropriate to begin with. This is how you weed out those who managed to get through everything else to be a cop.

I train cops and citizens on a regular basis. Just yesterday I was teaching an advanced AR class at our Sportsman's Warehouse and I spoke about this very same thing. I constantly tell our officers and those I teach about things like this: watch what you say on FB; why it is a bad idea to have 'Punisher' logos on any gear or weapons or anything that would increase liability for you or the department in the event you get into a deadly force situation.

Look, I understand why cops (and many others) identify with the 'Punisher' movies and stories; we see those whom we absolutely KNOW without any doubt are criminals, sadists, thugs and child molesters being inadequately punished or set free due to that annoying thing we call the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Its upsetting, aggravating, frustrating, stressful and can cause you severe health problems if not managed correctly. The way to overcome this is to understand that we play a role in the system and its not our fault if the rest of the system falls down after we've done our part.

Training plays a part too. Far too often, a training concept is taken way out of perspective and suddenly achieves some kind of 'Holy Grail' status. The easiest one to think of is the 21 foot rule or as some refer to it, the Tueller Drill. Dennis Tueller will tell you he never intended this drill to become the justification for cops smoking people armed with a knife within 21 feet of them but hundreds of thousands (maybe millions?) of people think this is the case. Based on this false narrative, people have been shot and killed by cops but are they at fault or is the faulty training?

The reality is that the Tueller drill is fatally flawed anyway; more recent research has shown that much younger people (rather than the middle aged firearms instructors used in the original drill) can cover the distance significantly quicker and so the potential danger zone is much, much further than 21 feet.

Making cops personally financially liable isn't going to change a thing. Look at Darren Wilson in Ferguson, MO. He was investigated by not only the locals but also the FBI/DOJ and it was determined his was a justified use of force but he is still ruined. His LE career is over, he will never be hired as a cop again by any agency due to concerns about liability and will have to spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder in case some thug with a gun wants to get even for Michael Brown. The examples of those officers you mentioned wouldn't have been deterred by the threat of financial ruin; the dude who shot the guy who fled the traffic stop wasn't thinking of spending the rest of his life in jail but that is what will probably happen. If he wasn't weighing the chance of life in jail, he wasn't worried about being broke either.

I tell my students that if they act within the guidelines of case law and department policy, they will be covered legally. However, they also need to consider what's the right thing to do inasmuch as while it might be justified to shoot, is it necessary to shoot? I might add I had a work colleague from when I worked in the oilfields shot and killed by my own agency just after I got hired. He was a sad case with a miserable bitch of a wife and robbed a bank to pay for some Christmas presents for his kids. He got chased and cornered then tried to shoot himself before pointing his gun at the cops. He got shot and killed on a lonely road on the reservation. I have wondered many times since then if I had been at the scene, if I would have been able to talk him down and avoid him being shot? I don't know but I do know that no-one there that night wanted to kill him or shoot him.

No matter how stringent the training, the selection and how good the leadership, there are going to be times when mistakes are made and people who really should not be cops are going to shoot and/or kill people. All we can try to do is limit the times those occur by doing our best to weed out those individuals.

Making me personally liable for doing an extremely tough job under high stress situations is going to have the knock on effect of me making a risk assessment or return on investment decision every time I'm called on to do something that might get me sued. Person weaving all over the road? If I try to stop them, they might try to run and crash into someone else and then I get sued. If I do stop them, they might try to shoot me and I'll have to defend myself and get sued for shooting them. However, if I do nothing, pretend I never saw them and they go on their way, I just avoided liability. The only issue is if they then crash into a family and kill them 2 miles down the road, how will I feel? Is that the kind of society we want? Where cops are scared to take any action for fear of losing everything? I'd say not. YMMV.
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Old April 03, 2016, 23:06   #31
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G - this dude fuked up - badly!, he shot a drunk dude who was begging for his life FIVE TIMES WITH AN AR15... the PELLET gun was sitting on the bed behind him - it was SO bad that his dept shitcanned him before his day in court... SO BAD that the prosecutor won't let the widow see the body cam of the event - when have you ever seen THAT happen - the cop is a murderer.

NOTHING you can say mitigates that! I agree, it's a high stress job, I agree cops are human and make mistakes, BUT, no one forced him to take that job. There was ZERO reason this cop had to shoot that man - that the media reports - was crawling towards him, as ordered, crying and begging for his life, FIVE TIMES with an AR15 - that had "YOU'RE FUKED" on the receiver...

Can't defend this one bro - bad cop. He needs to do the 20 - he earned it.

Not a threat but if this continues, and the general pop senses that LEO is NOT on the side of law abiding CITIZENS, well, there are a lot more of us than there are of you - and we're equally well armed. Just common sense self preservation.

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Old April 04, 2016, 10:16   #32
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G - this dude fuked up - badly!, he shot a drunk dude who was begging for his life FIVE TIMES WITH AN AR15... the PELLET gun was sitting on the bed behind him - it was SO bad that his dept shitcanned him before his day in court... SO BAD that the prosecutor won't let the widow see the body cam of the event - when have you ever seen THAT happen - the cop is a murderer.

NOTHING you can say mitigates that! I agree, it's a high stress job, I agree cops are human and make mistakes, BUT, no one forced him to take that job. There was ZERO reason this cop had to shoot that man - that the media reports - was crawling towards him, as ordered, crying and begging for his life, FIVE TIMES with an AR15 - that had "YOU'RE FUKED" on the receiver...

Can't defend this one bro - bad cop. He needs to do the 20 - he earned it.

Not a threat but if this continues, and the general pop senses that LEO is NOT on the side of law abiding CITIZENS, well, there are a lot more of us than there are of you - and we're equally well armed. Just common sense self preservation.
Mate, where do you see me defending this guy? I'm NOT. There is no defense for what he did. I'm saying that his being on the force in the FIRST place was a failure; a failure of selection, of leadership and accountability.

I'm also disagreeing that making cops personally financially liable is going to do ANYTHING to stop egregious actions. We are repeatedly told, warned and threatened by our own people that if we f*ck up, we can be sued, we can go to jail and lose everything we own. If that threat doesn't stop bad cops doing bad things, what WILL?

Better selection of cops, better leadership and better applicants are what this country needs. Cops also need to step up and identify bad cops, brutal cops and those who don't handle the intense stress cop work can have on people very well. Unfortunately, with the number of people in police work, there are going to be those scumbags like this guy, who simply should not be in this line of work. All cops can do is to try to reduce to an absolute minimum this type of person in police service.
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Old April 04, 2016, 10:26   #33
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Scottsdale PD is ok - as long as you are white, and live in Scottsdale I'm golden. I'm still not calling them, I'll be damned if I get plugged by some trigger happy 100 I.Q. wearing a badge.
They were so corrupt that even a friend of mine who was a SO in MS knew about Scottsdale PD's "No Nigger Zones." Officers involved in divorce procedures would have other officers target their wives for traffic tickets, etc.

Jesse Torrez has been a friend of mine for 20 years now. He's the decorated DPS officer who transferred to Scottsdale PD, and ended up winning a lawsuit against them. The sad thing is, he says if he could do it over again, he'd just shut his mouth. Standing up against the corruption cost him his career.
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Old April 04, 2016, 21:24   #34
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I disagree. It will keep happening until we have better selection, training and leadership. Of those three, selection and leadership are the key. We get better candidates when we pay them more, increase the age limit for hiring from 21 to at least 28, improve the selection process to include stressful situations and ensure we have a process to hold candidates and then officers accountable.
^

This is what I'm saying. Accountability is key, and it (largely) doesn't exist - see the various entities investigating themselves, and clearing officers on the basis of officers "following department protocol"...

I agree that paying more will allow for more stringent selection processes. Do you think tax payers are looking to pay more (increase budgets) given the lack of accountability that currently exists? It seems like the same argument for school teachers - people (generally) aren't interested in paying teachers more because of the lack of accountability.

I'm not talking about suing the officer in all cases. I'm talking about personal accountability in all cases.
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Old April 05, 2016, 00:12   #35
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G - I misunderstood your position I retract the comment and apologize.
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Old April 05, 2016, 07:28   #36
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Gman, THANKS for taking the time for such a thoughtful response.
I totaly understand the quandry a GOOD officer finds themselves in. I am also in full agreement with BrunoP about the personal responsibility feature.
The thin blue line has caused alot of us to see most all folks in blue as a rougue gang these days, something to be seen as op for instead of friends and neighbors. I have done my best to change that in my AO, and with good sherriff, have gone along way towards that goal.
Hardly ever hear of someone getting shot BY AN LEO around these parts. Mostly domestics and the occassional suscide every few years.
Now the fact that most all households in these parts are armed up pretty good does seem to act as a deterent for reckless firearms use by our sherriffs dept, as they KNOW they are severly outgunned, and would not fair well against certain pissed off families, especialy if they started a gunfight around their homesteads.

The key is RESPECT, live and let live , thats the American way. I tend to give the police the bennifit of the doubt when traveling, "a little bit", but watch my six real good, as ya never know when that ONE dirtbag in blue could cross yer path on a bad day.. And this from a "law abbidding" adult with all her papers in order and NO criminal record of any kind.
If I have to consider the popo a potential life threatening force, just think what those who live in a "more fluid" legal enviroment , as in the getto,think / feel wheen THEY see the uniform.
These feelings are generated by those few bad apples, not all the good guys.
Untill the bad apples are ground up and tossed in the pokey with all the other criminals, the public has a good cause to look ascance when they see the crusier.
THAT SUCKS bigtime for guys like Gman.
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Old April 05, 2016, 10:25   #37
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Making me personally liable for doing an extremely tough job under high stress situations is going to have the knock on effect of me making a risk assessment or return on investment decision every time I'm called on to do something that might get me sued. Person weaving all over the road? If I try to stop them, they might try to run and crash into someone else and then I get sued. If I do stop them, they might try to shoot me and I'll have to defend myself and get sued for shooting them. However, if I do nothing, pretend I never saw them and they go on their way, I just avoided liability. The only issue is if they then crash into a family and kill them 2 miles down the road, how will I feel? Is that the kind of society we want? Where cops are scared to take any action for fear of losing everything? I'd say not. YMMV.
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Old April 06, 2016, 06:39   #38
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Once the Jury hears: Brailsford had etched on his rifle: “You’re F---ed.” he is toast. If he was an 18-25 year old in war zone thats one thing. People aren't going to think that it is funny or cool when a grown man who is supposed to enforce the law does something like this to a service weapon.
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Old April 06, 2016, 09:33   #39
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Once the Jury hears: Brailsford had etched on his rifle: “You’re F---ed.” he is toast. If he was an 18-25 year old in war zone thats one thing. People aren't going to think that it is funny or cool when a grown man who is supposed to enforce the law does something like this to a service weapon.
Singular act or group think?

No weapons inspections caught this?
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Old April 06, 2016, 12:07   #40
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I've posted this before and I will again:

The so called 'War on Drugs' is largely responsible for most of the ills in modern policing. Drug abuse should be a public health issue not a criminal matter. Trying to enforce a policy which is unenforceable is stupid.

This 'war' has been in existence for over 40 years. It has destroyed untold lives, in gang warfare, in incarceration, in cops shooting people and trillions of dollars and for what? Latest reports are that meth, coke and heroin is even more available now in the US than at any time in our history. Not to mention the really scary designer drugs like Spice, bath salts and gravel.

So what have we really achieved over the last 40 years? Nada. Nothing. Zip.

What we have done is teach at least 2 generations disrespect for a stupid law that ignores basic human nature. We've started a war in the inner cities where blacks kill blacks in even greater numbers than at any time in our nation's history. We've provided politicians with a reason to try to continually ban firearms; we've created a demand for more and more cops to enforce these bullshit laws; we've manufactured a so called 'arms race' between the bad guys and the cops as to who needs to biggest and best guns.

We've incarcerated people at the highest rate in the western world and trampled over the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We've created a world where you have to prove that your shit is yours and where you acquired it so the cops can't confiscate it.

The biggest thing to me is that the cops have had to accept substandard people to fill the demand for more cops to enforce the laws on drugs. This has led to the degradation in some respects of the quality of candidates. If we could shitcan this failed WOD, we could get back to real police work; protecting and serving our communities. But I'm just a lone voice in the wilderness, crying at the stupidity of doing the same old thing year after year and expecting a different result...
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Old April 06, 2016, 20:25   #41
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"Don't mix guns with alcohol. Even pellet guns. Bad things can happen."

That's not really quoting anyone, but I seem to remember a safety rule like this.

I think everybody including the taxpayers are going to lose on this.
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Old April 07, 2016, 00:42   #42
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"Don't mix guns with alcohol"

Sage advice, but it APPEARS - the "GUN" was a pellet gun - used in the course of his business as a pest exterminator - and it was on the BED, not in his HANDS, as he was crawling towards the officer, on the ground - (according to news sources) crying and begging for his life... - how many FF'rs would have said, meh, FUK it! I'm shooting him, FIVE times! with an AR in THAT situation - I'll wager the number is ZERO! NONE of us would have shot that guy. NOT - ONE - OF - US - WOULD - HAVE - SHOT - HIM! ON ALL OF THE FALFILES - not even the FF newbies...

And that is why the stupid fuk was fired by his dept BEFORE he even had his day in court - G is right! we have FAR too many 100 IQ ASSHOLES wearing a badge playing Judge Dredd.

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Old April 07, 2016, 07:40   #43
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Gman-THANK YOU for that last post. I fully agree. We need alot more GOOD LEO's speaking out like you just did to their respective state leg.
Its the big banks that launder and use the proffits, the CIA, and the cartels that are destroying our nation, all for the new world order crew.
Legalize it , save for the bath salts and other posion.
IF those who's intent is to throw their lives away can get real drugs at a affordable price, they won't use the homebrewed stuff.

The best payoff will be the freeing up of officers to deal with real crime, and the reduction of costs assoceated with the prison system.
It will be MUCH cheaper to have community clean needle exchanges and mabey even a clean place for the addicts to shoot up, and then dispose of their now contaminated gear.
The Europeans have done a good job in this regard.
Make no mistake, I am not in favor of injecting drugs into my body, but I know freedom means allowing another to do as they wish, as long as they do me no harm.

Hell , the corupt politicans do us more harm in 5 min every day than all the druggies put together, 24/7
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Old April 07, 2016, 13:31   #44
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You know it's bad when they refuse to release the video and they immediately fire him. I suspect that eventually the video may simply be "lost" or destroyed somehow. He might get some serious time but then again he might just get a slap on the wrist, a black mark on his "permanent record" and might even end up working some small no name town police department in the boondocks.
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Old April 10, 2016, 09:44   #45
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You know it's bad when they refuse to release the video and they immediately fire him. I suspect that eventually the video may simply be "lost" or destroyed somehow. He might get some serious time but then again he might just get a slap on the wrist, a black mark on his "permanent record" and might even end up working some small no name town police department in the boondocks.
Um, no...it will be used in his murder trial, it is now evidence. He is going to the house of many doors for a very long time, and deservedly so.
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Old April 11, 2016, 01:10   #46
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He is going to produce the dead bird and the jury will acquit him.



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Old April 30, 2016, 09:49   #47
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don't come out to the sw and expect to pull yo regular stupid antics. just sayyin
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Old April 30, 2016, 09:58   #48
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https://youtu.be/452XjnaHr1A

struther martin bout says it all
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Old April 30, 2016, 21:52   #49
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don't come out to the sw and expect to pull yo regular stupid antics. just sayyin

You are an idiot.




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Old December 08, 2017, 16:25   #50
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Well,

At least there is some justice. The murderer was fired and is being prosecuted. Doubt he'll last long in gen pop. It would be fitting that he's crying and sees the shank coming when G Reaper visits him. What an A-hole.

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A Maricopa County jury on Thursday found former Mesa police Officer Philip "Mitch" Brailsford not guilty of second-degree murder charges in the 2016 shooting of an unarmed Texas man who was on his knees begging for his life.
Jurors deliberated for less than six hours over two days, finishing Thursday afternoon. The eight-member jury also found Brailsford not guilty of the lesser charge of reckless manslaughter.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ing/927052001/

Brailsford's video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=M62Va6Ft2cw

Wow. That cop was losing his shit when six cops had a bead on the guy? He could have de-escalated with just a calm, slow set of clear instructions. Also, if a Citizen was found with this nonsense on his weapon in a similar (or even less screwed-up) situation he'd be toast

http://www.leoaffairs.com/engraving-...15-used-court/
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