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Old August 10, 2013, 20:28   #1
D P Six
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Fukushima nuclear waste flowing into ocean

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/08/m...over-up-fails/

"Officials in Japan hid the fact that the Fukushima nuclear plant has been pouring hundreds of tons of nuclear waste water into the ocean every day and that a containment barrier has been breached." ......


If there is any nation on earth that should be super cautious if not fearful of nuclear power and weaponry it is Japan. Yet this techno savvy country cannot seem to come to terms with the earthquake/tsunami destruction of Fukushima. As in life, Murphy's Law applies to nuclear plants. Maybe they are nor such a good idea afterall? I live within one hour of a plant that is right on the Gulf.
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Old August 10, 2013, 20:52   #2
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Damn Nips, we should nuke 'em...again.
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Old August 10, 2013, 22:12   #3
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These idiots look more incompetent and less honest than the Soviets at this point!

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Old August 10, 2013, 22:25   #4
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OK, Before we all freak out the 300-ton a day of water equals one olympic size swimming pool every week. There is an old saying" If you got to pollute,delute,delute,delute". Yes ,this is bad ,but we will not be glowing in the dark anytime soon.
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Old August 10, 2013, 23:48   #5
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This is Cesium. Not Iodine. Much bigger problem. Our hair would be falling out and our organs turned to mush long before we glow in the dark.
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Old August 10, 2013, 23:49   #6
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Old August 11, 2013, 00:16   #7
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If there is any nation on earth that should be super cautious if not fearful of nuclear power and weaponry it is Japan. Yet this techno savvy country cannot seem to come to terms with the earthquake/tsunami destruction of Fukushima.
Even today, there is still a strongly-rooted cultural urge among the Japanese to avoid "losing face". And this often comes down to an outright avoidance of facing unpleasant realities, be it failed national fiscal policy or putting an inadequately-protected reactor in the worst possible location, and then being unable to control the aftereffects of their poor planning.
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Old August 11, 2013, 02:08   #8
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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...g-surroundings
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Old August 11, 2013, 03:58   #9
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Back in the late 1960's oil companies and oil services companies formed a consortium to build a subsea well control system that used a small nuclear power unit as it's primary power source,,, many millions of dollars were spent on R&D.

At that time the technology was not sufficiently well enough understood to be practical, we never got the nuclear power unit wet and subsequently developed systems with more commonly used conventional power devices.

Nuclear power is in theory the one resource man can use in perpetuity,,, if he does not destroy himself in the process.

No technological advance has ever been made without some human and environmental costs.

Logic dictates how most technological advances are calculated and applied.

Larger nuclear power generators present larger hazards,,, would not smaller more compact and contained localized generators be more practical and safer where risks from the environment are bound to occur ?
Japs have miniaturized most western gadgets, maybe they need to think smaller yet.

We probably have a small nuke power plant in that Colorado mountain cave where the last survivors of mankind will go to hide when the SHTF.
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Old August 11, 2013, 11:00   #10
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Nuclear power is great stuff! The problem is our ability to handle it. As with anything there is the good and the bad. The energy produced is clean, zero CO2 producing for those concerned about climate change issues.
The problem with any technology is mankind, we suck!
Smaller localized power plants are vulnerable to terrorist attacks.
What do we do with the spent fuel? Nasty stuff there with a half life of 250,000 years and will still kill the the day lights out of you even after that amount of time. The recorded history of humanity is only 5,000 years so take it from there.
There are ways to deal with this but politics has not been kind to nuclear power over the years.
We had the ability to build nuclear power plants that actually created more fuel than they used but Jimmy the pervert Carter killed that program. The issue was these reactors produced plutonium which is possibly the most deadly substance known to man. As with anything there is good and bad. It can be used for power to build or to destroy and man has this little thing about destroying. If there is a way we will figure out a way to use what ever there is to destroy first then maybe we will use it for good, it is our nature unfortunately.
The masses have been programmed to be ignorant with an example that some believe that the cooling towers that produce nothing but steam is pollution. All the videos that have cooling towers emitting clouds of steam are presented as clouds of CO2 or other harmful pollutants into the air. Of course it is all BS but the ignorant masses don't have a clue. When someone has an agenda truth is always the first casualty.
Japan has virtually zero natural resources, remember WWII, so there logical choice is nuclear power. The problem for them with this is the island is on the pacific rim and the most earthquake prone place on the planet. Tsunami is a Japanese word for tidal wave for a reason, they experience these all the time some more or less. This last one was huge but not unusual for the area. Building a nuclear power plant in that location maybe not the best choice. There is nothing that man can build that can withstand a virtual instantaneous 40 foot plus rise of the Pacific Ocean.
My view is nuclear is the way to go and we need to get with it sooner or later. The issue is we are not ready as a species to deal with such power. If there is another life form more advanced than us out there somewhere they would want nothing to do with us, I wouldn't either.
We are like fleas on a dog that have over populated to the point the dog is sick and if we continue the way we have been the dog will eventually die. We pump our waste into the oceans like they are never ending cesspools. Dilution is the Solution philosophy is coming to an end as more and more pollution is pumped into the ecosystem year after year. We here in the USA have been very bad in the past but nothing like the rest of the undeveloped world that has no regard for the environment what so ever. Take a walk on a beach in Taiwan, make sure you wear shoes, the medical waste and trash buried in the sand everywhere is unbelievable, Japan is no better. Using the oceans as our garbage dump will eventually kill us all. The radio active pollution is just another truck load of poisonous garbage that will be there forever.
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Old August 11, 2013, 12:10   #11
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Ya hit the nail on the head there Sagerider.

I remember some members here being absolute that there would be no serious radioactive pollution from this event. They were adamant that not enough would be released to cause harm. It was bullshit then. It's even more so now.

The Pacific NW has seen an increase in infant mortality since Fukushima.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_882313.html

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...t-the-numbers/

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/06/...shima-fallout/

http://enenews.com/fox-affiliate-sea...post-fukushima

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ess=103x607576
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"If we had as many misconceptions about the FN FAL as we do about the constitution. The body count from accidents would be much, much higher around here."
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Old August 11, 2013, 12:17   #12
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The Japanese government has been lying about this from the get to.

Remember when it first happened?

I said from the beginning they were lying, not because I know beans about nuclear reactors, but I know governments.

If they are letting this information out then you can bet it is worse than this.

There is ground water contamination that is extensive and water runoff found in Tokyo was showing high levels of radiation within 3 months of the original flood and meltdown.

I guess there is a real chance for a real Godzilla now?
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Old August 11, 2013, 12:39   #13
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The Japanese government has been lying about this from the get to.

Remember when it first happened?

I said from the beginning they were lying, not because I know beans about nuclear reactors, but I know governments.

If they are letting this information out then you can bet it is worse than this.

There is ground water contamination that is extensive and water runoff found in Tokyo was showing high levels of radiation within 3 months of the original flood and meltdown.

I guess there is a real chance for a real Godzilla now?
Perhaps, but there is right at zero chance for preventing wide area dispersion of fission products into the general environment. Three commercial reactor cores slagged plus a substantial fraction of the inventory in the spent fuel pools. That's a whole lot more cesium and strontium than you'll get from a bomb or two. The ground water contamination has been known since the early hours of the disaster, I can't believe there hasn't been a bigger fuss made until now.
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Old August 11, 2013, 15:59   #14
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I have worked in the nuclear power industry all of my working life, right about 40 years now. I have accumulated 25 Rem. and so far so good. No cancers or other issues. I have been to Fukushima a few times and two other nuclear plants in Japan. I worked hand in hand with a gentleman that blew the whistle on the way Japan and General Electric conductd business together. Hiding information and issues from the Japanese government was normal everyday practice. Things like normal repair issues, material failures and replacements of those components were not to be discussed with anyone. There was most likely an issue with the history there and public concern or even uninformed panic. Still I question all the lies.
Here in the USA we are open about the issues and problems and anyone can google up any plant they wish. As with any machine things break and wear out so repairs and replacement of components is a normal activity. Even our worst accident, Three Mile Island was what I would call a successful failure in that despite the efforts to destroy the plant the thing still shut it's self down with a minimal release of radiological materials into the environment.
Keep in mind radiation exposure is a natural everyday event brought to us from the sun and the cosmos at large. Certain areas of the world have natural occurring background radiation levels higher than others. Some areas have higher Radon gas levels coming up through the ground. Every time you take an airplane ride you get zapped more than if you stayed on the ground simply because at 40,000 feet there is less atmosphere shielding. Don't get me wrong here, I am not saying radiation exposure is a non issue. Any exposure is harmful to biological life. Some cells get damaged and repair themselves, others die and some mutate with the possibility of forming cancers. It all depends on the exposure levels and what that exposure is.
There are three basic types of particles, radiation, Alpha, Beta, Neutron and a ray, Gamma like in an X Ray. Neutron exposure occurs when a power plant is running, that is what makes the things work. Entry into an operating plant is not likely seeing as how the containment are sealed and purged to prevent possibilities of fires. There is no chance of exposure to the public let alone for the workers at the plant itself from neutrons. Alpha is a heavy particle and can lodge in the lungs causing damage to the cells in the surrounding tissues. It is not as energetic as Gamma but you do not want it inside your body that is for sure. Beta is smaller and can be stopped by such things as a thin piece of plastic. Lantern mantles from Colman lanterns emit Beta and can be found in every shop that sells sporting goods. Beta is a fission product and can damage your eyes causing cataracts if the exposure is chronic, chronic means a little over a long period of time like as in a chronic exposure to cigarette smoke. Acute exposure would be a lot over a short period of time. Very high levels of Acute exposures are the most problematic of course. This leaves Gamma which is highly energetic and the most penetrating. If Alpha partials are like shotgun slugs Gamma is like a 220 Swift. It will go through you like you were not there and keep right on going. Most of the everyday exposure we receive from the natural environment is gamma.
Different radio active elements emit different particles or ray as in the case of Gamma. Plutonium is about as bad as it gets emitting Alpha particles and it is also what is called a bone seeker. Most elements that get into your body by breathing, through the digestive tract or absorbed through the skin are naturally eliminated through the biological process like pooping and peeing. Plutonium though will lodge inside your bone marrow and emit heavy Alpha particles causing leukemia among other cancers. Internal exposure to Plutonium is very serious which thank goodness is normally rare.
The elements released from the Fukushima disaster are serious no BS bad boys.
Exposer for babies in the womb and the very young is the most harmful because the cells are growing very rapidly. But, here is the big BUT. Keep in mind there are thoughts among us that will do anything and say anything to promote their personal agenda including skewing facts and data. The Fukushima disaster is no joke and these fission products have been released into the environment on a massive scale. This release of highly radio active material has been largely down played simply because there is not a thing anyone can do about it. Unfortunately there is no such thing as RAD-B-Gone yet so this stuff is out there spreading it's way around the world. Lots of elements have relatively short half lives like cobalt
that has a half life of about five years meaning it is half as energetic from what it was five years ago and decreasing by half every five years. So in ten years it is only one quarter of what it was. Others however are very long lived like 250,000 years. A google search can be very informative and interesting.
Fukushima was a very unfortunate natural disaster but Chernobyl was criminal. The products from that unit went all over the world and they pretended at first like it never happened. This incidence of release of radio active material into the environment was caused by stupidity plain and simple. The problem with these releases is you can not just go out there and Hoover this stuff up. If you get near it for long enough it will kill you sooner or later.
I am sure there are negative effects in the northwest USA as well as Japan or any point where the ocean currents carry this stuff but due to the mass of the ocean the concentration levels are low relatively speaking. Keeping in mind any exposure is harmful and it depends on just how much. This is one of the factors that lead to the nuclear test ban treaties. North Korea and any new to the atomic world of course don't care and will test away without concern about the rest of the world. When we were testing back in the early days we had little real understanding of what the after effects.
I am not a ranting raving environmentalist by any means but I am a responsible adult. Dumping our garbage without regard to the long term effects to the rest of the world is crazy. There are vast areas of the ocean awash in plastic trash from every nation on the planet and it is getting no better. As the worlds population increases unabated it will only get worse. Ignorance is the next worse thing to want in the world. Folks spitting out kids that they can not afford to support and expecting the rest of the world to take on that responsibility has got to stop sooner or later. Every time I see these adds on the tube for help the starving children in Bungabonga I naturally feel sorry for their suffering but I am not the one who caused it and I sure as hell won't help them continue to make more starving children. The old words of wisdom are still relevant today. "If your gonna be dumb ya better be tough". Problem is we are not nearly tough enough.
Sorry for the long drawn out science lesson.
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Old August 11, 2013, 16:21   #15
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Sorry for the long drawn out science lesson.
Don't be sorry! Thanks for the info and input!!!!

It's one the best things about the files. We get info from a lot of smart folks about anything under the sun. And beyond sometimes.......
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Old August 11, 2013, 18:05   #16
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The degree of dilution, the volume of the ocean, etc., gives the cursory examination of the evidence the opinion of much ado about 'near' nothing....

Hell, try living here in Colorado in the summertime, taking your shirt off outside and spending the day in the sun...you'll get a LOT more harmful radiation just living here...

QUANTIFY these things....that's the damn problem with liberals/leftists/environmental nutcases is that they do not take the THOUGHT and effort to quantify their fanciful 'concerns'.....simple equations....pretty much as simple as the equations for solar heating and the mean/average heat of the earth..and WHY THEIR MODELS FALL SHORT (a discussion for another day on elementary physics)... I hate living in a world full of stupid fukks.....but that is just one of the crosses I must bear......
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Old August 11, 2013, 19:29   #17
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The degree of dilution, the volume of the ocean, etc., gives the cursory examination of the evidence the opinion of much ado about 'near' nothing....

Hell, try living here in Colorado in the summertime, taking your shirt off outside and spending the day in the sun...you'll get a LOT more harmful radiation just living here...

QUANTIFY these things....that's the damn problem with liberals/leftists/environmental nutcases is that they do not take the THOUGHT and effort to quantify their fanciful 'concerns'.....simple equations....pretty much as simple as the equations for solar heating and the mean/average heat of the earth..and WHY THEIR MODELS FALL SHORT (a discussion for another day on elementary physics)... I hate living in a world full of stupid fukks.....but that is just one of the crosses I must bear......
Well, perhaps, then again perhaps not. You're not going to get an internal body burden of strontium-90 moving into your bones where it can irradiate the marrow with high energy beta and give you leukemia. Plutonium-239 alpha decay is so energetic that it can launch microscopic particles of the material across a room and become airborne. The fact that it's non-penetrating alpha is actually a bad thing when it comes to plutonium uptake because all that energy is absolutely guaranteed to be deposited in your tissues, none will be able to exit as it would if it were gamma. Internal plutonium contamination even in minute amounts will absolutely give you cancer, most likely sooner rather than later and there's no ifs, ands or buts about that.

So no, it's not the same thing. Not even close actually, because with a nuclear accident we are talking about contamination, not simple exposure. Once you get out of the sun your exposure stops. Strontium 90 has a half life on the order of several decades, plutonium is substantially longer than that.

In short, contamination of ground water with fission products and transuranics is a real bad thing and it's clear the Japanese have not been forthcoming about the extent of the problem and have no plan for addressing it. If appearance is any indicator they are still not in charge of this thing and are making it up as they go.

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Old August 11, 2013, 20:14   #18
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I have worked in the nuclear power industry all of my working life, right about 40 years now. ....
What do you think of the potential for Thorium reactors?
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Old August 11, 2013, 20:40   #19
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What about the animal life that lives in that area? Or migrates thru it? It gets heavier dosages of radiation,either thru their gill or thru eating smaller prey.Then they move somewhere else,and something else eats it.
I don't care how its sliced,it ain't a good thing.
Japan has lying about exactly how bad this is. This is like Chernobyl dragged out over years.
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Old August 11, 2013, 22:05   #20
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Old August 12, 2013, 08:09   #21
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What about the animal life that lives in that area? Or migrates thru it? It gets heavier dosages of radiation,either thru their gill or thru eating smaller prey.Then they move somewhere else,and something else eats it.
I don't care how its sliced,it ain't a good thing.
Japan has lying about exactly how bad this is. This is like Chernobyl dragged out over years.
They have been lying ever since the place was built. Apparently there's some evidence that cooling systems failed even before the wave hit, which means the plants did not even successfully survive the earthquake. Then there's the evidence of several post-accident criticalities and nuclear excursion in the #3 fuel pool. It just goes on and on.
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Old August 12, 2013, 10:45   #22
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They have been lying ever since the place was built. Apparently there's some evidence that cooling systems failed even before the wave hit, which means the plants did not even successfully survive the earthquake. Then there's the evidence of several post-accident criticalities and nuclear excursion in the #3 fuel pool. It just goes on and on.
Wasn't there an issue about improper storage of spent fuel rods?
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"If we had as many misconceptions about the FN FAL as we do about the constitution. The body count from accidents would be much, much higher around here."
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Old August 12, 2013, 12:36   #23
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Wasn't there an issue about improper storage of spent fuel rods?
There was certainly a question, not sure if it ever rose to the status of an issue.
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Old August 12, 2013, 15:02   #24
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What do you think of the potential for Thorium reactors?
I think Thorazine reactors will have more potential after this disaster. lol
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Old August 12, 2013, 19:08   #25
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Wasn't there an issue about improper storage of spent fuel rods?
Not improperly stored. I would say impopetly responded to. http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/...fukushima.html
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