The FAL Files  

Go Back   The FAL Files > Weapon Specific Forums > The FN Files

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 01, 2013, 00:12   #1
clance
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 46936
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA/Michigan/Battle Creek
Posts: 44
Accuracy?

Simple question.

What type of accuracy should I expect out of a CAI R1A1 with a IMBEL upper receiver if I change out the G1 barrel for a DS Arms medium contour?

I understand that there is more to it then just changing out the barrel but I'm curious on whether it's really worth the time or money to try?

What I would like to do is set the R1A1 up as a Designated Marksman rifle (0-600m+) if practical.

Also, what scope would you recommend? I've been trying to find a resonably price 1.5x6 with bullet compensation for the 7.62mm but either they're a couple thousand dollars or more (ELCAN), or some cheap knock off that probably won't hold zero after touch off the first round. I would like to keep it under $1200 if possible and the bullet compensation while would be great to have isn't necessary. The biggest thing that I'm concern with is reliability, ruggedness and maintaining zero in all types of enviroments and weather.
clance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 01, 2013, 00:19   #2
def90
Dinosaur
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50609
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 10,807
FAL is a minute of man battle rilfe.. not a DMR. That said average is 4 moa, 2 moa is a pretty good shooter, there are a few that will shoot better than that.

If you want a good shooter get an original StG barrel rather than the DSA. Many have poured tons of money into it only to find a stock StG can shoot just as well.
__________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of creatures Chuck Norris allows to live.
def90 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 01, 2013, 08:51   #3
RALFUS
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 25289
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 7
For a scope look into the Burris MTAC 1.5-6 with the ballistic CQ reticle, which subtends for 7.62 ammo. Cost is about $400. Burris scopes are quite reliable. I was considering the same scope for my R1A1. Drop it in some low rings on a DSA mount and it will sit just in front of the rear sight.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/113...-reticle-matte


Last edited by RALFUS; March 03, 2013 at 16:58.
RALFUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 01, 2013, 09:26   #4
MAINER
Old Salt
Bronze Contributor
 
MAINER's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 18465
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,569
Pretty much agree with def90. Any improvement would largely depend on the condition of your present barrel. G1's in general are not noted for accuracy due to the fact that, usually, they are well worn when we get them. They were great barrels when new, made by FN.

Installing a DSA Med-contour in search of improved accuracy has been done many times by members, usually with disappointing little or no gain in accuracy and making the rifle cumbersome weighing some 12lbs. or so.

If you can't find an OEM with an excellent bore, you might look into the barrels being sold by Brad at www.gunthings.com.
I have no experience with these, so check with other members for reviews.

In my opinion, the FAL is not a "DMR" rifle, but would do until a better one came along. The M1A or AR 10 would be better choices, along with my favorite 600 yarder, an FN PBR XP Bolt gun.
__________________
Lord, keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
MAINER is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 01, 2013, 10:28   #5
Canuckienns
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 65472
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San antonio florida
Posts: 392
You have not mentioned the condition or make of the existing barrel. I had a Century with BSA military barrel that shot 2 inches and under all day. It needed a very thorough bore scrubbing several times over and then it started to perform. I kept records and with reloads I sometimes could get a 1 inch group.
Canuckienns is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 01, 2013, 15:01   #6
jugrunner
restless
Silver Contributor
 
jugrunner's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 19911
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 5,161
how good is the shooter ... ???
__________________
... ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ...
_____________________________________________

"Remember man as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, so you shall be. Prepare for death and follow me."

_____________________________________________

one of the proud "unwashed" ...
jugrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 01, 2013, 18:49   #7
Scoby
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 66650
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jugrunner View Post
how good is the shooter ... ???
Yeah Means alot.

Don't forget the ammo. Good ammo goes a long way when you're talking accuracy in any rifle.
Scoby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 01, 2013, 19:07   #8
meltblown
Registered
Bronze Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 34604
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tejas/Houston
Posts: 3,416
Accuracy is dependent as much as the operator. My stgs are better than me as proven by my redneck deer hunting buddies
__________________
Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

Patty Hearst
heard the burst
of Roland's Thompson Gun
And bought it. WZ
meltblown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 01, 2013, 21:05   #9
jugrunner
restless
Silver Contributor
 
jugrunner's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 19911
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 5,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoby View Post
Yeah Means alot.

Don't forget the ammo. Good ammo goes a long way when you're talking accuracy in any rifle.


Yes Sir ... ammo counts for sure ... prolly almost, maybe but not quite as much as the trigger man ... ... the Privi I've got shoots all over the place ... can't even "Kentucky windage" the stuff ... some get good results and I base my results using one rifle (only rifle) ... so YMMV ...

I've seen ammo that will consistently quadruple your group size ... but it IS consistent ... still no good

when I get serious I'll start loading some of this Lithuanian brass in my bag ... ... word on the street is ... it's the chit ...
__________________
... ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ...
_____________________________________________

"Remember man as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, so you shall be. Prepare for death and follow me."

_____________________________________________

one of the proud "unwashed" ...
jugrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 01, 2013, 21:27   #10
clance
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 46936
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA/Michigan/Battle Creek
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by jugrunner View Post
how good is the shooter ... ???
In truth, I'm out of practice with a rifle seeing my job require that I use a pistol most of the time.
clance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 01, 2013, 22:46   #11
one hand clapping
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 35299
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: WV mountains
Posts: 6,639
Talking

Repo man eah ??
__________________
She who speaks Truth, to Power
one hand clapping is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 02, 2013, 00:32   #12
4x401
Guy-Epics conscience...
Silver Contributor
 
4x401's Avatar
 
FALaholic #: 31978
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Preparing in earnest for the 4th blood moon...
Posts: 5,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by one hand clapping View Post
Repo man eah ??
That's not fair OHC...
OP could just be another JBT LEO.
__________________
Just plain tired of the Bullshit...
4x401 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 02, 2013, 21:07   #13
TJaway
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 65898
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Milwaukee Wisconsin
Posts: 9
FNs and ammo

Propellant weight counts for alot of accuracy. One test I did started at 46 grains. Group size was nine inches. At 47 grains group size was four inches. At 48 grains group size was 1.25 inches. 49 grains group size was back to four inches. 50 grains was nine inches. Nothing else changed between test loads. Guess which weight of propellant I use? The only way I can assure myself this level is maintained is by weighing the charge. A pain, but I feel it's worth it. Of course, it depends on what you're looking for. Charges using volume measures are faster. These are good for RDR use (Rounds Down Range). Also, some recipes are a good-better-best thing. I do many tests looking for the magic bullet. But that's just me.
TJaway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 02, 2013, 21:21   #14
clance
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 46936
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA/Michigan/Battle Creek
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by one hand clapping View Post
Repo man eah ??
Actually in personal security (aka: bodyguard).
clance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 03, 2013, 14:18   #15
clance
Registered
 
FALaholic #: 46936
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA/Michigan/Battle Creek
Posts: 44
I've been going over and over in my head what I know about rifle accuracy.

Of course the barrel/bolt fit is probably the one biggest factor in a rifle's accuracy along with manufacturing methods and material used.

Then of course as several of you mention the ammo that is used and the consistancy of charge, primer, bullet weight and of course the putting together of.

Also mention was the individual rifleperson ability like trigger control, breathing, knowledge, etc...

What I don't understand is that if you account for all these factors and improve or maintain consistancy. Why is it that the FN FAL can't be just as accurate as say a M1A1 Springfield or G3 HK that has had work done to it to improve their accuracy?

Or this is what I'm getting from the numerous postings to this thread???
clance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 03, 2013, 14:23   #16
def90
Dinosaur
Silver Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 50609
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Peoples' Republic of Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 10,807
Additional items.. Front sight and rear sight are on two separate parts of the rifle that are able to move independently. Barrel is thin, any pressure from handguards or sling will effect POA.

Their are plenty of threads on FAL accuracy here and attempts at fixing the issues that affect the FAL. Some people have spent hundreds maybe thousands of dollars in their quest only to find someone somewhere with a stock FAL with a surplus barrel that shoots better.
__________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of creatures Chuck Norris allows to live.
def90 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 03, 2013, 14:43   #17
DYNOMIKE
Registered
Contributor
 
FALaholic #: 11982
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: FLORIDA
Posts: 16,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJaway View Post
Propellant weight counts for alot of accuracy. One test I did started at 46 grains. Group size was nine inches. At 47 grains group size was four inches. At 48 grains group size was 1.25 inches. 49 grains group size was back to four inches. 50 grains was nine inches. Nothing else changed between test loads. Guess which weight of propellant I use? The only way I can assure myself this level is maintained is by weighing the charge. A pain, but I feel it's worth it. Of course, it depends on what you're looking for. Charges using volume measures are faster. These are good for RDR use (Rounds Down Range). Also, some recipes are a good-better-best thing. I do many tests looking for the magic bullet. But that's just me.
That could just as easily have gone the other way with a diff propellant.
Powder charge is a relevant aspect of ANY load and almost always requires experimentation IE: Load Development for best results..
There usually is no "Magic Bullet" but a Magic combination of components..

To the O/P this should keep you busy for awhile:
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...t=ACCURATE+FAL
__________________
"If your Gonna DIE, DIE Standing UP"!!
The WOLVERINES.......
DYNOMIKE is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2012 The FAL Files