replacing the ar 15

FALRifle · July 28, 2012, 20:17

I am on my last AR and am about to sell it. I like them and they are fun to build but I want something different. I am looking at an XCR or maybe a sig 556 or 551a1 but am concerned about spare parts. I know the XCR I can call and get as many parts as I want. what say you all? I know there was a thread that listed various options in the 556x45 caliber but I wanted to try and get an idea of what the general consensus is on the XCR. Anyone have one and care to give an opinion?

**Cava3r4** · July 28, 2012, 22:24

how about a SCAR 15 or 17??
built by our beloved "FN"

L1A1rocker · July 28, 2012, 23:05

What's the new fan dangled 556 rifle that requires the replacement of all kinds of roll pins when you take it down for cleaning?

FALRifle · July 28, 2012, 23:06

I was thinking of a SCAR 16 but the price is a little off putting for me right now. Then I get to thinking If I pony up the dough for the 16 why not spend a little extra and get the 17 (only a couple hundred more). This is how I get myself into trouble. I am willing to sell a gun or two to fund another project but am looking to not break the bank.

I don't have an AK yet, I could go that route too. AHHHH!!! so many rifles to choose from and not enough money.

Douglas S Graham · July 29, 2012, 06:58

Sig 551 A1. 1285.00 Buy ten mags from Sig with your coupon. Nice!!

Inkognito · July 29, 2012, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALRifle

I am on my last AR and am about to sell it.

Congratulations!

Based on your previous experience with AR15's I understand your concern about spare parts. However, there are some rifles that don't need them.

I love my SIG 556. I think a SCAR would be a very nice weapon also but probably not worth what they are asking for it. I don't have any experience with the XCR but it would be interesting. I like the SIG because it is a basic Kalashnikov design but refined and improved for greater accuracy and ergonomics. I studied the 550 for years until SIG started offering the 556 several years ago. When they came out with the Classic I jumped on it and have never regretted it. Every time I take it out I still get the feeling of how fortunate I am to finally own this rifle based on the legendary 550.

I do not miss an opportunity to practice my anti-AR humor. I really don't like the design at all. But seriously, the rifles you are considering will be a substantial upgrade to the AR in my not so humble opinion.

FALRifle · July 29, 2012, 08:54

Graham, where did you find a 551a1 for under 1300? One at my local shop is 1450.

Inkognito, I have some questions about the 556 classic. First, I have heard issues with canted sights, is this an internet problem or a real problem. What about iron sight? Again, I have heard, not experienced, that the sights on the classic aren't the best. Is there an alternative to them? What do you think a good price is on one?

Douglas S Graham · July 29, 2012, 11:52

FALrifle, I will let you know once I purchase another. Don't want a run on their site.

Douglas S Graham · July 29, 2012, 11:54

PS, I think you can find a 556 classic for 950.

**cavegeo** · July 29, 2012, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALRifle

I am on my last AR and am about to sell it. I like them and they are fun to build but I want something different. I am looking at an XCR or maybe a sig 556 or 551a1 but am concerned about spare parts. I know the XCR I can call and get as many parts as I want. what say you all? I know there was a thread that listed various options in the 556x45 caliber but I wanted to try and get an idea of what the general consensus is on the XCR. Anyone have one and care to give an opinion?

Yes, I own a XCR, trying to get parts is not as easy as calling. Go over to the XCR forum. You will discover that just getting Robinson Arms to answer the phone is a monumental task.

I really like the design but feel that he needs to rethink a few items such as the little cotter pins that hold the pivot pin in the rifle. Very easy to lose due to its small size. A rifle that goes into harms way should not have little parts that are easy to lose during a field strip and clean period.

suppressor · July 29, 2012, 16:21

This might interest you.

www.gunbroker.com#298685050

Brand new Russian AK : $780.00

Inkognito · July 29, 2012, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALRifle

Graham, where did you find a 551a1 for under 1300? One at my local shop is 1450.

Inkognito, I have some questions about the 556 classic. First, I have heard issues with canted sights, is this an internet problem or a real problem. What about iron sight? Again, I have heard, not experienced, that the sights on the classic aren't the best. Is there an alternative to them? What do you think a good price is on one?

I also have heard of some QC issues, but mine did not have any issues. I did not get mine when they first came out, I got mine about a year after the classics were introduced so maybe they worked out the problems? Or maybe the problems started showing up later? The iron sights on mine are good. Not as good as an original 550 though. There are alternative sights. I don't know much about them but I think at some point in the future I would like to get a nice flip up sight set. I seldom use the irons though. I have an IOR 1.5-8x26 mounted on it.

The price of Classics has really fluctuated. I have seen them at $1800 when they first came out to as low as $999. I think a fair price now for a new one would be around $1200.

**BlackgunCO** · July 29, 2012, 20:48

Bud's had the 556 Classic for $989 or so with free shipping the other day. This was their cash price. +3 % for CC purchase.

FALRifle · July 29, 2012, 20:57

I just got back from talking with a buddy and he said the XCR is cool (his friend has one) but the damn screws keep baking out on the part that holds the barrel and some other spots. I am sure a little loctite would go a long way but I am not sure I want to lay my hard earned green backs on a rifle that is literally shooting itself apart. Plus (like was said) after investigating I have heard some stories about orders from Robarm. Looking a little more closely at the Sig. I can get a classic for 1100. I like the classic over the 551a1 just because I have a pile of mags that will work in it already. My concern is the durability of the stock furniture and sights. I have heard and seen on youtube the folding stock sometimes pulls out the lock on the on the stock when unfolding it. I just want a decent rifle I can take to a course and not worry about it breaking apart. My current and last AR is my last AR for a reason. It has been flawless. I just don't like em and want something I like. If anyone has bought a classic lately, have you had problems with it? Also do you think the classic is the way to go or should I go a different style?

**BlackgunCO** · July 29, 2012, 21:13

here is a place that has about every variation of the Sigs. they have a lot of them that have the Swiss lowers and stocks. http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-556-rifles/

Halmbarte · July 29, 2012, 21:37

Here's a review of my 556 after 1500 rounds.

(Price was $1k shipped and transfered)

So far I've run about 1500 rounds thru this rifle: mostly PMC but some Hornandy, Federal, and Tula. So far I've had 1 malfunction, a failure to fire. Of course, this occurred during a rifle match, while the timer was running. I didn't recover the round so I don't know if it was defective or if it got a light hit.

The assembled rifle. Pretty much stock Sig 556 Classic.

Flash hider wear. Flash hider is from PWS and has been installed since I got the rifle.

Receiver wear from the cartridges impacting the side of the receiver. They all so that and they all dent cases too.

Field stripped. Little more complex than the parent AK design.

Gas piston head.

Gas regulator. No signs of erosion.

Bolt striped. The extractor is not normally removed except to replace it.

Bolt face wear.

Trunnion showing cam wear on the initial rotating cam.

Trunnion showing where the bolt carrier impacts on the right side.

Receiver rail wear.

Ejector.

Bolt carrier.

Receiver buffer plate.

FCG.

To summarize, I'd classify all the wear on this rifle as being parts polishing themselves in. I haven't seen any signs of peening or other destructive wear. The parkerizing has worn off in places and the paint has too, but there just isn't any metal being removed in significant amounts.

H

**BlackgunCO** · July 29, 2012, 21:54

here is a good deal on a new one! http://grabagun.com/sig-m-556clsc-22...-30rd-blk.html They look well made. I sure like my new Sig Mesquito .22 pistol. Very nice fit finish and feel. I would guess that the rifles are even better. Can't wait to get one for myself.

Insider · July 30, 2012, 01:14

The SIG 556 is a bargain for a piston operated rifle.

Inkognito · July 30, 2012, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALRifle

I just got back from talking with a buddy and he said the XCR is cool (his friend has one) but the damn screws keep baking out on the part that holds the barrel and some other spots. I am sure a little loctite would go a long way but I am not sure I want to lay my hard earned green backs on a rifle that is literally shooting itself apart. Plus (like was said) after investigating I have heard some stories about orders from Robarm. Looking a little more closely at the Sig. I can get a classic for 1100. I like the classic over the 551a1 just because I have a pile of mags that will work in it already. My concern is the durability of the stock furniture and sights. I have heard and seen on youtube the folding stock sometimes pulls out the lock on the on the stock when unfolding it. I just want a decent rifle I can take to a course and not worry about it breaking apart. My current and last AR is my last AR for a reason. It has been flawless. I just don't like em and want something I like. If anyone has bought a classic lately, have you had problems with it? Also do you think the classic is the way to go or should I go a different style?

Check out this video. It might help inform your decision.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va9GD...layer_embedded

I love how this guy treats his rifle. You know, like a rifle and not a delicate flower or something. Makes me feel no so bad about beating the hell out of mine climbing up trees and such when I'm out hunting coyotes.

I've never had any of the issues you mentioned with my 556 Classic. I do have the original Swiss rear stock on mine. I think they all come that way now. I definitely recommend it over the first "Swiss" stock that came on them. Mine came with that piece of crap and I replaced it. The original Swiss stock is rock solid.

FALRifle · July 30, 2012, 23:38

Very cool video. What does the original folder look like so I know when I look at em this week? Is it plastic or metal? I know ACE makes their own adapter too.

Halmbarte · July 31, 2012, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALRifle

Very cool video. What does the original folder look like so I know when I look at em this week? Is it plastic or metal? I know ACE makes their own adapter too.

The original folder looks kinda like the Swiss stock but the rear piece collapses into the front piece. They aren't a total disaster but are kinda wobbly and cheap feeling.

The Swiss stock is much better. It's the one that's in my pic above.

H

FALRifle · July 31, 2012, 18:53

thanks fellas. Almost ready to pull the trigger. Just was wondering what the difference between the patrol and classic is besides the handguards. Same goodness has the classic?

**BlackgunCO** · July 31, 2012, 19:02

I think the patrol model has a shortened gas system. This puts the front sight farther back.

Inkognito · July 31, 2012, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALRifle

thanks fellas. Almost ready to pull the trigger. Just was wondering what the difference between the patrol and classic is besides the handguards. Same goodness has the classic?

I honestly don't know anything about the patrol. Also, just FYI: some people actually prefer the original collapsible/folding stock that was installed on the Classics because they have three positions whereas the Swiss style stock just folds and when in the unfolded position only has one position.

Halmbarte · July 31, 2012, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALRifle

thanks fellas. Almost ready to pull the trigger. Just was wondering what the difference between the patrol and classic is besides the handguards. Same goodness has the classic?

The patrol has the short hand guards and short gas system. Guys were buying them and cutting the barrels down to SBR.

Since the pistol and factory SBR versions came out I suspect the patrol popularity has fallen off. Why cut the barrel when you can easily add a stock?

After you get your stamp, of course.

H

FALRifle · August 02, 2012, 19:09

Damn it just when I think it is a done deal. I went to the range and was able shoot both an Arsenal ak in 762x39 and the SIG556 (The people you meet at the range are the nicest people. Everyone is awesome about letting you try their rifles). I liked both of them. My wife will kill me if I come home with both but it is for sure between these two rifles. Pros of the 556 it handles nice (ergos), I have plenty of mags, and I don' have to add a caliber to my collection. Pros of the AK it (in my opinion) feels better and more robust, I like the caliber, and it just looks cool. I love and hate having these choices.

suppressor · August 02, 2012, 23:51

Fal, there may be a benefit to having another widely distributed military caliber in your inventory.
I resisted the AK for years because of stories of incredible, combat- proven reliability was, in large part, due to loose tolerances, degrading accuracy.(There was a famous gunwriter years back that made the comment "only accurate rifles are interesting").
What worked on myself, over the years, to finally change me?
Two writers that are my favorite, Steve Kokalis and Bob Fortier, both from Shotgun News, both highly respected, wrote numerous articles praising the design.
Finally, there are now many documented comments , from special forces personell and others, saying they would take an AK over an M4 as their SHTF rifle.
But Sig is a hell of a great company, and all their products are top shelf.

jefferyc22 · August 03, 2012, 10:04

My AK74 groups almost as well as my M4.

FALRifle · August 03, 2012, 12:47

I have been looking everywhere online to compare AK47 prices. A lot of comapnies make them. Is my best bet going with an Arsenal sgl21? They seem to be the most expensive in comparison to other companies. Are any other companies good? I know you usually get what you paid for but I want to keep it under a 1000 (which is obtainable with an Arsenal AK but if I can save more I won;t complain).

suppressor · August 03, 2012, 17:23

Things to look for.
Receivers, barrels, and bolt groups made in the arsenals that produce these rifles for their countries armies.
Arsenal, or now FIME Group, uses the Russian rifles.
Arsenal, uses the Bulgarian arsenal rifles as the base rifle. (SLR series rifles)
Norinco rifles, used or new old stock are the Chinese army rifles.
Zastava rifles are Serbian base rifles.
Maadi are the Egypt Army rifles.
There are so many variations of these rifles over the years and options, (or perceived weak links because of the re-manufacture-USA necessity) that you can read up on these to get a handle on it. Trunions, slant-cut receivers, 1.6mm receivers, milled receivers, 1mm receivers, are mag wells opened, bullet guides, on and on.

But an SGL-21, with Russian receiver, barrel, and bolt group, might be an excellent new rifle. Made in the original factory where the AK was developed.

Prices are fluid at this time but it seems that the SGL-21's just seem to come in in the last three weeks.
You can try : silverponys2@yahoo.com to see if she still has her supply of sgl-21's. They were around 825.00 there.

jefferyc22 · August 04, 2012, 00:59

I wish I would have bought a Yugo M70AB1.

FALRifle · August 04, 2012, 17:50

I don't do much collecting so I don't care if parts match or if it is whatever style. I just want it to run and be fairly accurate. I was looking on atlantic firearm website and they have an IO sporter ak47 for a decent price. They claim it is 2moa which would be nice. They also have a polish underfolder for a decent price that looks nice. I have been researching on line trying to learn about these rifles but there is so much info. Are either of these nice? I want reliability first and foremost. If I go AK 47 should I just stick with the Arsenal AK?

suppressor · August 05, 2012, 00:26

With the Arsenal Russian or Bulgarian rifles you have a high degree of:
Pride of ownership
Investment
High resale value
The IO rifles are US made. Well most of them. And US made rifles, copies of former military rifles, don't have, apparently, a good track record.
Witness the evolution of the Fal from DSA, and the H&K designs from PTR.
Though there are good versions of these, US manufacturers haven't been able to consistantly live up to the military standard.

Watch gunbroker for a couple of weeks. See what rifles are being bid on.
Whatever you choose, if it's a good idea day after day, week after week, it's probably the the right choice for you.
The Arsenal rifles are, I believe, the best, all new AK's available to US shooters.

JasonB · August 05, 2012, 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by suppressor

Two writers that are my favorite, Steve Kokalis and Bob Fortier, both from Shotgun News, both highly respected, wrote numerous articles praising the design.

Who?

BC · August 05, 2012, 13:30

It's Peter Kokalis.

JoeLad · August 06, 2012, 21:40

Look for an Arsenal 106FR. Folding stock in 5.56. Great rifles. Mine is my SHTF choice. AK reliability with a common ammo choice.

oz in SC · August 07, 2012, 11:58

I am also looking for a different 5.56 rifle,narrowed it down to the SIG 556 and a Daewoo(preferably pre ban).

No experience with either,both can be(with a little luck) found for the same money...

Thoughts?

I have an Arsenal SLR 95 that I hope to trade,it is nice,a little too nice for me.

jefferyc22 · August 07, 2012, 12:02

AK74 with a red dot or a M&P in 5.45.

Inkognito · August 17, 2012, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by oz in SC

I am also looking for a different 5.56 rifle,narrowed it down to the SIG 556 and a Daewoo(preferably pre ban).

No experience with either,both can be(with a little luck) found for the same money...

Thoughts?

I have an Arsenal SLR 95 that I hope to trade,it is nice,a little too nice for me.

I think the daewoo is a very fine rifle. I do not think it is as good as the SIG. When you strip down a SIG and lay its parts out next to the parts of an AK47, you can see that it is basically the same design with some refined improvement that make it much more accurate and even more reliable.

You could not go wrong with either one unless you just get a lemon. Both are much more reliable, not to mention more interesting, than an AR.

July 28, 2012, 20:17	#1
FALRifle Registered FALaholic #: 66120 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Plano, Illinois Posts: 431	replacing the ar 15 I am on my last AR and am about to sell it. I like them and they are fun to build but I want something different. I am looking at an XCR or maybe a sig 556 or 551a1 but am concerned about spare parts. I know the XCR I can call and get as many parts as I want. what say you all? I know there was a thread that listed various options in the 556x45 caliber but I wanted to try and get an idea of what the general consensus is on the XCR. Anyone have one and care to give an opinion?

July 29, 2012, 16:21	#11
suppressor Registered FALaholic #: 64166 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Ky. Posts: 147	This might interest you. www.gunbroker.com#298685050 Brand new Russian AK : $780.00 Last edited by suppressor; July 29, 2012 at 16:37.

July 30, 2012, 01:14	#18
Insider Registered FALaholic #: 1183 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central florida Posts: 783	The SIG 556 is a bargain for a piston operated rifle. __________________ I sold all my guns and ammo and now live the quiet retired life!

August 07, 2012, 11:58	#37
oz in SC Registered FALaholic #: 4870 Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Rutherfordton NC. Posts: 486	I am also looking for a different 5.56 rifle,narrowed it down to the SIG 556 and a Daewoo(preferably pre ban). No experience with either,both can be(with a little luck) found for the same money... Thoughts? I have an Arsenal SLR 95 that I hope to trade,it is nice,a little too nice for me. __________________ Everybody wants to eat at the government's table, but nobody wants to do the dishes.

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July 28, 2012, 22:24	#2
Cava3r4 Curio & Relic Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 6560 Join Date: May 2002 Location: AZ...originally from St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,332	how about a SCAR 15 or 17?? built by our beloved "FN"

July 28, 2012, 23:05	#3
L1A1rocker Registered FALaholic #: 12294 Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,278	What's the new fan dangled 556 rifle that requires the replacement of all kinds of roll pins when you take it down for cleaning?

July 28, 2012, 23:06	#4
FALRifle Registered FALaholic #: 66120 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Plano, Illinois Posts: 431	I was thinking of a SCAR 16 but the price is a little off putting for me right now. Then I get to thinking If I pony up the dough for the 16 why not spend a little extra and get the 17 (only a couple hundred more). This is how I get myself into trouble. I am willing to sell a gun or two to fund another project but am looking to not break the bank. I don't have an AK yet, I could go that route too. AHHHH!!! so many rifles to choose from and not enough money.

July 29, 2012, 06:58	#5
Douglas S Graham Registered FALaholic #: 19332 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Pa. Posts: 2,431	Sig 551 A1. 1285.00 Buy ten mags from Sig with your coupon. Nice!!

July 29, 2012, 08:54	#7
FALRifle Registered FALaholic #: 66120 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Plano, Illinois Posts: 431	Graham, where did you find a 551a1 for under 1300? One at my local shop is 1450. Inkognito, I have some questions about the 556 classic. First, I have heard issues with canted sights, is this an internet problem or a real problem. What about iron sight? Again, I have heard, not experienced, that the sights on the classic aren't the best. Is there an alternative to them? What do you think a good price is on one?

July 29, 2012, 11:52	#8
Douglas S Graham Registered FALaholic #: 19332 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Pa. Posts: 2,431	FALrifle, I will let you know once I purchase another. Don't want a run on their site.

July 29, 2012, 11:54	#9
Douglas S Graham Registered FALaholic #: 19332 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Pa. Posts: 2,431	PS, I think you can find a 556 classic for 950.

July 29, 2012, 20:48	#13
BlackgunCO Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 64915 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western Slope, CO Posts: 1,652	Bud's had the 556 Classic for $989 or so with free shipping the other day. This was their cash price. +3 % for CC purchase.

July 29, 2012, 20:57	#14
FALRifle Registered FALaholic #: 66120 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Plano, Illinois Posts: 431	I just got back from talking with a buddy and he said the XCR is cool (his friend has one) but the damn screws keep baking out on the part that holds the barrel and some other spots. I am sure a little loctite would go a long way but I am not sure I want to lay my hard earned green backs on a rifle that is literally shooting itself apart. Plus (like was said) after investigating I have heard some stories about orders from Robarm. Looking a little more closely at the Sig. I can get a classic for 1100. I like the classic over the 551a1 just because I have a pile of mags that will work in it already. My concern is the durability of the stock furniture and sights. I have heard and seen on youtube the folding stock sometimes pulls out the lock on the on the stock when unfolding it. I just want a decent rifle I can take to a course and not worry about it breaking apart. My current and last AR is my last AR for a reason. It has been flawless. I just don't like em and want something I like. If anyone has bought a classic lately, have you had problems with it? Also do you think the classic is the way to go or should I go a different style?

July 29, 2012, 21:13	#15
BlackgunCO Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 64915 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western Slope, CO Posts: 1,652	here is a place that has about every variation of the Sigs. they have a lot of them that have the Swiss lowers and stocks. http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-556-rifles/

July 29, 2012, 21:37	#16
Halmbarte Registered FALaholic #: 66792 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: PDX, OR Posts: 13	Here's a review of my 556 after 1500 rounds. (Price was $1k shipped and transfered) So far I've run about 1500 rounds thru this rifle: mostly PMC but some Hornandy, Federal, and Tula. So far I've had 1 malfunction, a failure to fire. Of course, this occurred during a rifle match, while the timer was running. I didn't recover the round so I don't know if it was defective or if it got a light hit. The assembled rifle. Pretty much stock Sig 556 Classic. Flash hider wear. Flash hider is from PWS and has been installed since I got the rifle. Receiver wear from the cartridges impacting the side of the receiver. They all so that and they all dent cases too. Field stripped. Little more complex than the parent AK design. Gas piston head. Gas regulator. No signs of erosion. Bolt striped. The extractor is not normally removed except to replace it. Bolt face wear. Trunnion showing cam wear on the initial rotating cam. Trunnion showing where the bolt carrier impacts on the right side. Receiver rail wear. Ejector. Bolt carrier. Receiver buffer plate. FCG. To summarize, I'd classify all the wear on this rifle as being parts polishing themselves in. I haven't seen any signs of peening or other destructive wear. The parkerizing has worn off in places and the paint has too, but there just isn't any metal being removed in significant amounts. H

July 29, 2012, 21:54	#17
BlackgunCO Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 64915 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western Slope, CO Posts: 1,652	here is a good deal on a new one! http://grabagun.com/sig-m-556clsc-22...-30rd-blk.html They look well made. I sure like my new Sig Mesquito .22 pistol. Very nice fit finish and feel. I would guess that the rifles are even better. Can't wait to get one for myself.

July 30, 2012, 23:38	#20
FALRifle Registered FALaholic #: 66120 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Plano, Illinois Posts: 431	Very cool video. What does the original folder look like so I know when I look at em this week? Is it plastic or metal? I know ACE makes their own adapter too.

July 31, 2012, 18:53	#22
FALRifle Registered FALaholic #: 66120 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Plano, Illinois Posts: 431	thanks fellas. Almost ready to pull the trigger. Just was wondering what the difference between the patrol and classic is besides the handguards. Same goodness has the classic?

July 31, 2012, 19:02	#23
BlackgunCO Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 64915 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western Slope, CO Posts: 1,652	I think the patrol model has a shortened gas system. This puts the front sight farther back.

August 02, 2012, 19:09	#26
FALRifle Registered FALaholic #: 66120 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Plano, Illinois Posts: 431	Damn it just when I think it is a done deal. I went to the range and was able shoot both an Arsenal ak in 762x39 and the SIG556 (The people you meet at the range are the nicest people. Everyone is awesome about letting you try their rifles). I liked both of them. My wife will kill me if I come home with both but it is for sure between these two rifles. Pros of the 556 it handles nice (ergos), I have plenty of mags, and I don' have to add a caliber to my collection. Pros of the AK it (in my opinion) feels better and more robust, I like the caliber, and it just looks cool. I love and hate having these choices.

August 02, 2012, 23:51	#27
suppressor Registered FALaholic #: 64166 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Ky. Posts: 147	Fal, there may be a benefit to having another widely distributed military caliber in your inventory. I resisted the AK for years because of stories of incredible, combat- proven reliability was, in large part, due to loose tolerances, degrading accuracy.(There was a famous gunwriter years back that made the comment "only accurate rifles are interesting"). What worked on myself, over the years, to finally change me? Two writers that are my favorite, Steve Kokalis and Bob Fortier, both from Shotgun News, both highly respected, wrote numerous articles praising the design. Finally, there are now many documented comments , from special forces personell and others, saying they would take an AK over an M4 as their SHTF rifle. But Sig is a hell of a great company, and all their products are top shelf.

August 03, 2012, 10:04	#28
jefferyc22 Banned FALaholic #: 18245 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: PNW Posts: 3,445	My AK74 groups almost as well as my M4.

August 03, 2012, 12:47	#29
FALRifle Registered FALaholic #: 66120 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Plano, Illinois Posts: 431	I have been looking everywhere online to compare AK47 prices. A lot of comapnies make them. Is my best bet going with an Arsenal sgl21? They seem to be the most expensive in comparison to other companies. Are any other companies good? I know you usually get what you paid for but I want to keep it under a 1000 (which is obtainable with an Arsenal AK but if I can save more I won;t complain).

August 03, 2012, 17:23	#30
suppressor Registered FALaholic #: 64166 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Ky. Posts: 147	Things to look for. Receivers, barrels, and bolt groups made in the arsenals that produce these rifles for their countries armies. Arsenal, or now FIME Group, uses the Russian rifles. Arsenal, uses the Bulgarian arsenal rifles as the base rifle. (SLR series rifles) Norinco rifles, used or new old stock are the Chinese army rifles. Zastava rifles are Serbian base rifles. Maadi are the Egypt Army rifles. There are so many variations of these rifles over the years and options, (or perceived weak links because of the re-manufacture-USA necessity) that you can read up on these to get a handle on it. Trunions, slant-cut receivers, 1.6mm receivers, milled receivers, 1mm receivers, are mag wells opened, bullet guides, on and on. But an SGL-21, with Russian receiver, barrel, and bolt group, might be an excellent new rifle. Made in the original factory where the AK was developed. Prices are fluid at this time but it seems that the SGL-21's just seem to come in in the last three weeks. You can try : silverponys2@yahoo.com to see if she still has her supply of sgl-21's. They were around 825.00 there.

August 04, 2012, 00:59	#31
jefferyc22 Banned FALaholic #: 18245 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: PNW Posts: 3,445	I wish I would have bought a Yugo M70AB1.

August 04, 2012, 17:50	#32
FALRifle Registered FALaholic #: 66120 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Plano, Illinois Posts: 431	I don't do much collecting so I don't care if parts match or if it is whatever style. I just want it to run and be fairly accurate. I was looking on atlantic firearm website and they have an IO sporter ak47 for a decent price. They claim it is 2moa which would be nice. They also have a polish underfolder for a decent price that looks nice. I have been researching on line trying to learn about these rifles but there is so much info. Are either of these nice? I want reliability first and foremost. If I go AK 47 should I just stick with the Arsenal AK?

August 05, 2012, 00:26	#33
suppressor Registered FALaholic #: 64166 Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Ky. Posts: 147	With the Arsenal Russian or Bulgarian rifles you have a high degree of: Pride of ownership Investment High resale value The IO rifles are US made. Well most of them. And US made rifles, copies of former military rifles, don't have, apparently, a good track record. Witness the evolution of the Fal from DSA, and the H&K designs from PTR. Though there are good versions of these, US manufacturers haven't been able to consistantly live up to the military standard. Watch gunbroker for a couple of weeks. See what rifles are being bid on. Whatever you choose, if it's a good idea day after day, week after week, it's probably the the right choice for you. The Arsenal rifles are, I believe, the best, all new AK's available to US shooters.

August 05, 2012, 13:30	#35
BC Registered FALaholic #: 752 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: cc Posts: 2,390	It's Peter Kokalis.

August 06, 2012, 21:40	#36
JoeLad Registered FALaholic #: 3353 Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: SE PA Posts: 3,243	Look for an Arsenal 106FR. Folding stock in 5.56. Great rifles. Mine is my SHTF choice. AK reliability with a common ammo choice.

August 07, 2012, 12:02	#38
jefferyc22 Banned FALaholic #: 18245 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: PNW Posts: 3,445	AK74 with a red dot or a M&P in 5.45.