Update-More tree ID!

[Powderfinger]

I spend time walking in a local park that has an arboretum. My Scoutmaster as a boy taught botany at the local community college and was instrumental in the plantings of the tree and shrub specimens in the arboretum for decades.
We used to play "Try to stump Rufus" while outdoors. Asking him to identify any plant, tree, shrub or weed never stumped him though. He would rattle off the common name and then the Latin name and give a little spiel about the plant.
The trees in the arboretum used to be tagged. A lot of the tags are gone or literally grown over in the trunk. I do a little tree surgery sometimes when I can carve out a partially covered tag and screw and re-attach them.
Today I saw this tree. 8" trunk, 25' tall or more. The blossoms are in groups of 6-8 or so on a short stalk.
Any one recognize it?


Edited for spelling

[tdb59]

Catalpa Speciosa ?

[gunplumber]

That's what it looks like. The cigar tree. Couldn't tell the variant. The northern flower is more speckled than the solid indigo of your sample, so which variety I dunno. I used to work at the Fullerton Arboretum as part of my college botany "lab" credit, and while I specialized in Eucalyptus, cacti, and grass variants, I did accumulate quite a bit of books on north American fauna. Heck, I even had a cactus business at one time. "Mark's custom Cacti - Cactus and Succulent Arrangements for All Occasions" (dismal failure, of course).

[tdb59]

Lots of years in Ornamental Horticulture, myself.

Mom and Dad had a container stock nursery not far from where you are, Mark, between Glendale and Peoria.

[Powderfinger]

I'll be darned! I've never heard of that. I've never seen it in bloom until today.
Thanks guys!
Id'ing all the trees and re-tagging them with the common and Latin name would be a good Eagle Scout project. I've been thinking of suggesting that anyway.
The arboretum is around the historic Borst Home on the Chehalis river, built in 1856, as I recall.
There is the historic Fort Borst Blockhouse built by the Army for an anticipated Indian war that never happened, which has since been moved about 1/2mile into Borst Park.
There is an Oregon Trail-1844 marker placed there in 1916 also.

[def90]

Catalpa, they have them all over here in Colorado as they grow well in dryer/hotter areas.

[Powderfinger]

Heres another for the experts to ID.
All of the same shrub, about 15' tall. The bloom is about 2-1/2" wide.

[tdb59]

The bark is similar to Lagerstromia, but the flower has me puzzled.

[gunplumber]

yeah, it's almost like he's screwing with us. The flower and leaf look like a dogwood, but the bark looks sycamore. I'll have to think some more on this.

ETA I looked at the white crape myrtle (lagerstromia) but you're right - the flower looks wrong. Problem is, being an arboreum, it doesn't have to be native - could be something like a chinese cherry.

[tdb59]

Philadelphus lewisii

State flower of Idaho

[Sig220]

Originally Posted by def90

Catalpa, they have them all over here in Colorado as they grow well in dryer/hotter areas.

Catalpa worms make great fishing bait.....just sayin

[Abominog]

Originally Posted by Sig220

Catalpa worms make great fishing bait.....just sayin

Don't you dare. They turn into fine moths!

[gunplumber]

Originally Posted by tdb59

Philadelphus lewisii

State flower of Idaho

I'd actually looked at that one, but the leaf pattern is wrong.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7FA2YFueZB...nge%5B2%5D.JPG

A "mock orange" has the leaves coming out from the center branch at opposite locations (opposite), rather than alternating (alternating), or all around the branch (whorled). The reason I looked closer at the crape myrtle is that it doesn't follow a pattern - it is alternate low on the tree and whorled at the end of a branch.


Leaves categories
.....broad
.....narrow
..........needle
..........scale

Leaf attachment
.....alternate
.....opposite
.....whorled.

Leaf type
.....Simple
.....compound
..........Palmately
..........Pinnately
..........double pinnately
..........triple pinnately

Leaf lobes
.....yes
.....no

Leaf margin
.....Entire (smooth):
.....Toothed
.....Doubly toothed
.....Serrate
..........Single serrate;
..........Doubly serrate
..........Spiny-serrate
..........Dentate

Other characteristics
.....over all shape
.....shape of base
.....shape of apex
.....pattern of veination
.....surface properties
.....odor

[Powderfinger]

Originally Posted by gunplumber

yeah, it's almost like he's screwing with us. The flower and leaf look like a dogwood, but the bark looks sycamore. I'll have to think some more on this.

ETA I looked at the white crape myrtle (lagerstromia) but you're right - the flower looks wrong. Problem is, being an arboreum, it doesn't have to be native - could be something like a chinese cherry.

C'mon Mark. When did I ever screw with anybody on this site outside of the common banter in GD.
As far as odor, I didn't sniff it.

ETA: Yes, most of the specimens in the arboretum are non-native. I think that was the whole point for the botany professor I mentioned in the first post, who directed the plantings there.
Also, I have some crappy cell phone pics from a garden at OHSU I took last September. It had purple looking cherries on it. (I think purple, I'm a bit color deficient). I would love to find a specimen for my yard. Near as I can tell from searching is that it's a Himalayan bird cherry. I'll twist your brain with that one later.

Edited for spelling and acronym change

[Sig220]

Originally Posted by Abominog

Don't you dare. They turn into fine moths!

Moths get a little powdery in your mouth, the fish you catch...well they taste great!!

[tdb59]

I do not know of any other tree that has that flower, and is not a palmate leaf.

My belly is full of sushi and miso soup. I will check back tomorrow.

Terry

[Powderfinger]

Originally Posted by Abominog

Don't you dare. They turn into fine moths!

I had to search that.
From Wiki: The wingspan is 65–95 mm.
Maybe what my Grandma from the midwest called a "fliegende Maus".
I found this interesting: The first trial of aerial crop dusting was an attempt to control the Catalpa Sphinx.

[gunplumber]

I'm having trouble from the picture telling if the edge of the leef is smooth or lightly toothed.



Also the tip of the leaf from the picture looks like a rounded point.

I approach it by determining first what it is not. I'm going with

leaf shape - elliptical
leaf tip - cuspidate?
leaf base - acute
leaf margin (edge) -entire (smooth) but may be serrulate (finely serrated)
leaf vein - pinnately

[308/223shooter]

Who'd thought there'd be so many tree specialists on the Files. Brian, you need to get back to work, you're bloody bored! Meet me tomorrow night at O'Blarneys for a pint and we'll talk trees.

[Powderfinger]

Originally Posted by 308/223shooter

Who'd thought there'd be so many tree specialists on the Files. Brian, you need to get back to work, you're bloody bored! Meet me tomorrow night at O'Blarneys for a pint and we'll talk trees.

I need to walk daily in my "dancing slippers" to keep my feet in shape.
Going back on the job for 4-10s in steel toes would be a killer after 12 weeks without wearing them daily like I have lately. A pint o' Guiness sounds good!

[Powderfinger]

Originally Posted by gunplumber

I'm having trouble from the picture telling if the edge of the leef is smooth or lightly toothed.



Also the tip of the leaf from the picture looks like a rounded point.

I approach it by determining first what it is not. I'm going with

leaf shape - elliptical
leaf tip - cuspidate?
leaf base - acute
leaf margin (edge) -entire (smooth) but may be serrulate (finely serrated)
leaf vein - pinnately

I'll get more details maybe tomorrow.

[gunplumber]

what would help is a

flat picture of the leaf
method/pattern of attachment to the twig
If you can cut a twig parallel to it's direction and see if it is in little ridged sections or smooth in side
seed pods if any

And where are you climate wise? ETA nevermind, WA State

virginia tech has a decent on-line dendrology "process of elimination" guide but I can't tell from the pics what to input.

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/dendrology/idit.htm

[gunplumber]

Also, I'm still contemplating a variety of cherry - how many petals does the flower have?

[def90]

Originally Posted by Powderfinger

Heres another for the experts to ID.
All of the same shrub, about 15' tall. The bloom is about 2-1/2" wide.

I could be wrong but I think I saw some of those when I was working on a house on Grand Cayman..

Edit.. looked at some pics I took back then, the house was of Japanese design/influence and all the plants and gardens were Japanese so I looked it up..

Either Japanese or Chinese Stewartia

[Powderfinger]

Originally Posted by 308/223shooter

Who'd thought there'd be so many tree specialists on the Files. Brian, you need to get back to work, you're bloody bored! Meet me tomorrow night at O'Blarneys for a pint and we'll talk trees.

Or grave markers.
I added a photo here today.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...&GRid=79473971
I spotted the marker a couple weeks ago at the park and it rang a bell. He was my uncle's nearest neighbor north on Military Rd., although they were about a 1/2 mile apart.
I also got the repair yesterday for my wife's great uncle's marker that the FIL FUBARED the dates on. I need to find some solid 316 SS acorn nuts next.

[Powderfinger]

Originally Posted by def90

I could be wrong but I think I saw some of those when I was working on a house on Grand Cayman..

Edit.. looked at some pics I took back then, the house was of Japanese design/influence and all the plants and gardens were Japanese so I looked it up..

Either Japanese or Chinese Stewartia

No, by George, I think you are 100% correct it's Stewartia!
Google images shows the same bark and flower.

[richbug]

Originally Posted by tdb59

Catalpa Speciosa ?

Huge one in my grandmothers yard when I was growing up. The state forester thought it would be a record, before it was damage by wind. Over 20' in circumference when it cracked down the middle.


The beans make an awful mess.

[tdb59]

Stewartia Monadelpha

http://bbg.cityofbellevue.net/Search...px?Plant=16721

[Powderfinger]

Originally Posted by tdb59

Stewartia Monadelpha

http://bbg.cityofbellevue.net/Search...px?Plant=16721

I was leaning toward Korean with the longer, less oval leaves than the Japanese and yellow stamens rather than orange. Also, the tall variety is said to have 1-1/2" blooms. These are closer to 2-1/2" wide. In any case it is a specie of Stewartia.

[tdb59]

Stewartia Pseudocamelia has the flower size as you describe, but seems to have a darker, more leathery leaf.

[Powderfinger]

Originally Posted by tdb59

Stewartia Pseudocamelia has the flower size as you describe, but seems to have a darker, more leathery leaf.

Images of Stewartia Monadelpha do resemble more closely my specimen. I think you are correct.

[tdb59]

CORRECTION !

ALERT ! ALARM ! ALAS ! ALACK !

Dug out the 1988 edition of Sunset Western Garden Book, and saw that monadelpha has violet anthers, and pseudocamellia has orange anthers.

[Powderfinger]

Originally Posted by tdb59

CORRECTION !

ALERT ! ALARM ! ALAS ! ALACK !

Dug out the 1988 edition of Sunset Western Garden Book, and saw that monadelpha has violet anthers, and pseudocamellia has orange anthers.

I need to look up the definition of stamen and anther again.
So... your final answer?

[G3isMe]

Originally Posted by Powderfinger

....Maybe what my Grandma from the midwest called a "fliegende Maus".
......

LOL, nope not what they were calling moths, that is Norwegian for bat. Loosely translated "flying mouse." My grandmas used to use that all the time. Being a MN native with both my great-grandma and grandpa on my mothers side coming over from Norway in the late 1800's we usually only heard the Norwegian being used for two occasions. 1). when they were saying things they didn't want you to understand, or 2) when you did something that really pissed them off, you know, like dropping your flashlight down the outhouse because you and your cousin just had to see what/how much was really down there.

[308/223shooter]

Originally Posted by G3isMe

LOL, nope not what they were calling moths, that is Norwegian for bat. Loosely translated "flying mouse." My grandmas used to use that all the time. Being a MN native with both my great-grandma and grandpa on my mothers side coming over from Norway in the late 1800's we usually only heard the Norwegian being used for two occasions. 1). when they were saying things they didn't want you to understand, or 2) when you did something that really pissed them off, you know, like dropping your flashlight down the outhouse because you and your cousin just had to see what/how much was really down there.

Now THAT'S funny! I dated a gal from Ballerd Washington, lotta Norskies there. She used say "Ufda" from time to time.