Reloading HK91/G3 Brass

[FALic]

I bought a Springfield Greek (EBO) SAR8 G3 clone to complete the NATO trinity - M1A/M14, FAL, G3. Getting that G3 really makes me love the rest of the trinity that much more but, I digress.

I've accepted the idea that, if you can find them, you can reload HK91/G3 brass.

From what I can tell, I think that that rifle is in spec w/ bolt gap and operating normally. Rounds were 150g FMJs at 2650 LC (USGI) brass once fired which means my expended brass is now twice fired. I've got a port buffer so the only thing that's different with the brass is the flute marks. I consider myself experienced in reloading in that I'm much more concerned (paranoid) about the details than when I started years ago.

Dumped the brass in my .308 reload pile which is mostly FAL and M1A generated. Probably a mistake.

I deprimed everything and sent it through the vibratory cleaner for a couple of hours, everything is really shiny except for the G3 brass which still has some telltale flute marks. I figure good enough and I've got an indicator of which brass came from the the G3.

On to full length, small base resizing. I could tell when I had a G3 round, a lot more resistance on the handle. When I checked the brass with my Forster gage to check the resized brass I've got 36 fails (175 rounds we're good) - excessive head space and some are still too wide around the base. Which I figure is about all the rounds I recovered from the G3.

Second pass with extra passes into the die to see if they can be recovered. 15 out of 36 pass the second time but the necks are definitely longer than the rest and will need trimming as opposed to the rest of the herd which don't need trimming. The rounds that fail are comically out of spec, the bases are hanging out of the Forster gage, headspace is still excessive - off to the recycle bin.

At this point, I'm thinking that yeah, you can reload G3 brass but that it's a waste of time. Of the rounds that you can find, around 50% won't be in spec for headspace after you've resized them.

I don't even want to put my G3 brass back in with the general population thinking they're bound to fail faster than the rest of the herd.

I think that this has got to be a common experience for the G3 action, with the chamber + flutes giving the spent brass larger dimensions than a if it had gone through a traditional rifle chamber. Then, of course, the farther the brass is from spec the more "work" the brass receives resulting in more rounds failing the QA process, more trimming, and ultimately a shorter lifetime in terms of reloads for the brass. Kinda like reloading for your local reserve unit's machine gun..

If I google this subject, HK91/G3 owners seem to be offended that people think you can't reload the brass. I read that one guy could reload his brass 18X which set off the bullshit detector.

Did I have a bad day with the brass or was this experience par for the course?

[ammolab]

Is you Forster gauge ".308W"? 7.62NATO chambers are a bit more generous and a case that is close in your gauge may be quite acceptable in any NATO chamber. I have never had one of my reloads fail to chamber or function in my HK91 (standard, not small base die).

That said....your HK91/G3 brass will get swelled and streched more that you will see in other rifles. I reload my HK91 brass but I would say that 3 times is the limit for me. That brass is so plentiful and cheap it is foolish to try and get those 18 reloads out of each case.

[FALic]

You're right, the gage is .308W and the base is actually standard. I got the military brass to fit the .308 gage the first time around and it's bothersome that it won't go back to normal dimensions. Also, for the record, the gage is a Wilson case gage not a Forster gage.

I reload in large batches and I don't want to have special lots of ammunition reserved for a particular rifle. I'm all set up for one size that fits all. I don't have a problem with pulling suspect brass (Brass IS cheap) to prevent issues later in the logistics cycle.

I've still got berdan milsurp in inventory, I think I'll switch to that when I take the G3 out.

[Tim Dreas]

What powder and load are you using?

[FALic]

43g AA2520 w/ LC Brass and HDY 150g FMJ - chronos at 2650 with the gas turned off on my FAL.

[Tim Dreas]

Oh, I thought you were getting 2650 fps from the G3. That's a pretty good load. That's from a full length FAL?

[BUFF]

I never bothered to chase down my -91 empties after a couple of episodes. If it was the only 7.62/.308 rifle I owned and ammo and brass were a lot more scarce, mebbe I would.

[FALic]

Actually it's 19", ended up cutting off the threads and leaving the barrel au natural rather than putting a barrel weight on the end - pre AWB sunset build by GP. I think standard is 21" so it might do as well as 2750 if I had a standard barrel on it. I really like that load, especially since 2520 is a ball powder, it plays well with M1A/M1 and I can use it for heavier bullets in .223. As mentioned previously, not hard to resize coming out of anything other than the G3.

[zeke]

Used to have a Hk-91, and saved about 500 Hirt cases that been shot through it. In order to size them to chamber in a FAL and M1-A, had to size the cases twice, once with a small base die. The shoulders stretched out noticably further than on any other semi owned, due to the type of action the hk-91 uses and how/when the bolt unlocks. The crease on the neck only became an issue, if reloaded more times than prudent. Used them for 3 decent pressure reloads in FAL, then pitched em.

Would strongly advise not to mix hk-91 fired cases in with others.

[FALic]

I went through the motions and trimmed the brass that got back into spec with headspace - Giraud power trimmer took about a minute. I had to trim off a lot of brass to get the them back to length. The non G3 brass didn't need any trimming.

So in summary, half the G3 reloads wouldn't go back to the .308 headspace spec they started out with and the half that did got really long necks due to all the extruded brass from resizing them. Not real practical.

Since that rifle is more of a collector than a shooter and I still have lots of berdan milsurp to feed the G3, I tossed the G3 brass into the trash.

[Tim Dreas]

Originally Posted by FALic

Actually it's 19", ended up cutting off the threads and leaving the barrel au natural rather than putting a barrel weight on the end - pre AWB sunset build by GP. I think standard is 21" so it might do as well as 2750 if I had a standard barrel on it. I really like that load, especially since 2520 is a ball powder, it plays well with M1A/M1 and I can use it for heavier bullets in .223. As mentioned previously, not hard to resize coming out of anything other than the G3.

That's pretty good velocity with a 19 inch barrel. The Hornady 150 grain FMJ is very accurate for a FMJ bullet. Loading it to the cannelure results in a short cartridge but it doesn't seem to cause a problem. It may make the load a bit hotter than it would be at a longer length though. I find A2520 to load somewhere around IMR-4895 or Varget. I load 43.0 grains of H-335 with 147 and 150 grain bullets in both military and commercial cases. H-335 is usually a bit faster than A2520 in 223 but in 308 there doesn't seem to be as much difference. Speer says they get highest velocity in 223 with their 62 grain bullet and A520. In 223 A2630 loads about like Varget in weight and in 308 it loads about like IMR-4895 in weight but it is a lot easier to measure.