since kits are drying up ...

[jugrunner]

you'll see the price of rifles go up ... IMHO

I've noticed a few more "built" rifles selling, than maybe a couple months back ... seems the FAL is more popular than ever !!

a new generation has discovered the genius in design and the inherent quality of an FN product or licensed product ... or even a damn DSA product !!

I don't know 'bout those Inch things ... I had a "close encounter" with a couple Inch rifles one time ... ... almost went back to an AR ...




That should get half the population stirred up ... maybe ...

[TOWS220]

Which is going to lead to this rifle falling out of the popularity it has held in the american gun culture in my opinion. Of course you old farts with your parts dungeons will continue to fight the good fight, but for new fellas it is going to be harder and harder to really amass a collection of rifles without putting themselves out on the streets.

It seems to me that as parts go up in value, new guys are gonna think twice before jumping, american companies are going to think twice before manufacturing products, and the everymans 7.62 battle rifle is going to stop being just that.

Bracing for impact from this one.

[WWM]

I was pondering the question the other day of how things would be so much different if the T-48 would of been more than just a trials rifle. Can you imagine how many more rifles/parts kits would be out there today. We probaly wouldn't be having these discussions. The only trade off would be a lot less, if any M14/M1A's.

[Zeusizme]

The good thing that may come out of this is competition. If demand for parts continues then the supply will shrink. Add in simple supply and demand economics, and someone will try to supply the demand. As long as we all demand quality parts that is what will be produced by the manufacturers that rise to the task.

[LaConservationist]

I too have noticed my kits are drying up as well! As I went into the dungeon I noticed the complete kits are getting scarce......but THE PICKETT fence is EXPANDING!!

There are still a few I am strongly seeking as a HOLY GRAIL and as soon as the LB IZZY is completed, my quest for rare specimens be will zeroed in on!

TOWS, you are right about the OLD FARTS like JUGRUNNER, when HOARDERS such as himself hoard the rare kits it makes it MUCH harder for us YOUNG guys to locate as well as afford the prized more rare kits!

LaC

[Badasspara]

Don't see it workin' out but it's a bunch of "waiting" parts kits in Libiya...If we could just get the barrel ban lifted someone might be able to work a smokin' deal with them folk.
I can dream can't I?

[LaConservationist]

Originally Posted by Badasspara

Don't see it workin' out but it's a bunch of "waiting" parts kits in Libiya...If we could just get the barrel ban lifted someone might be able to work a smokin' deal with them folk.
I can dream can't I?

Don't think Century and APEX aren't all over this as we speak!!

BIG MONEY will be spent do make this happen.....when???? Well that is yet to be seen!

[Badasspara]

LAC...You got that right. Alot of BIG money will be spent. Put me down for 3 kits...Oh wait, Wrong thread!

[TOWS220]

I often wonder, barrel ban or not, how many potential "kits" in waiting are out there? I am still pretty sure we will see more barrel-less kits comin in, but they will run out some day.

Will U.S. parts meet the demand? Will they be affordable enough to keep new buyers attention? The real problem I see with new, us production parts filling the gap is will the demand be great enough to make it economic?

Also, the way the parts are built for FALs seems to me like it is a lot more costly than ARs. Maybe someone who knows about manufacturing can back that up or shoot it down.

[CharlieK27x]

I think were going to be working with what we have for the foreseeable future. On the up side There are allot of parts floating around both loose and trapped on century rifles.... It's a good thing to. Next month I'll be looking for a nice South Africa barrel, to replace the one I just sold to help pay for the type 1.5 receiver... That will need a SA barrel.... Round and round we go. Your right though the prices are constantly going up and that will hurt new buyers. There isn't much out there other than used century or Hesse builds for under $1,000 and once the surplus parts do run out DSA will be the only option. If I'm a new guy looking at a $2,000 DSA next to a $1200 AR10..........

[nwobhm]

IMHO this hobby will die without an influx of kits. Last year I had 12 StG kits. I'm down to 2 with 1 incoming. I search daily for quality parts, I find little. Most stuff I see now is junk. Even the common Imbel kits are gone.

[jugrunner]

Originally Posted by nwobhm

IMHO this hobby will die without an influx of kits. Last year I had 12 StG kits. I'm down to 2 with 1 incoming. I search daily for quality parts, I find little. Most stuff I see now is junk. Even the common Imbel kits are gone.

I'll take one of the two(2) you have now ... !! ... either one ... !!

[nwobhm]

Fell ass backwards into what I believe is a Belgian StG replacement lower. NOS, not G1 cut, StG cut. Trying to make an almost all NOS StG kit. If I sell it, you will be first in line. Need an "E" barrel and I'm close to done.

[jimmbob]

If the kits and parts are stored in my 1979 single wide trailer can it still be considered a kits/parts dungeon I need to know.

[FUUN063]

Yep, I will agree, jugsy is a parts hoarder and he needs to share with us!


Leland

[LaConservationist]

Originally Posted by jimmbob

If the kits and parts are stored in my 1979 single wide trailer can it still be considered a kits/parts dungeon I need to know.

NO IT CANNOT!! You must connect that trailer to the back of your truck, fuel up with gas and head to LOUISIANA for proper kit disposal! I will rid you of these kits and store them in the proper DUNGEON settings as stated by local laws! This will rid you of any state and federal violations! I will do this free of charge and sign an affidavit reliving you of legal responsible!

Your PAL!!

LaC

[genethepoolcleaner]

Originally Posted by FUUN063

Yep, I will agree, jugsy is a parts hoarder and he needs to share with us!


Leland

I think the Obama admin would call that redistribution.
you know the disenfranchised and all. GTPC

[Exit308]

Jimmbob, if you are going to hitch up that wagon and head back to Dixie you should shed some excess weight with me here in "Liberal" Oregon and I will make a donation for your gas fund. If you sell them to Chris then he will have about way more than he can use and that would not be "fair and balanced". If you do move back down south of the MD line then I hope you get your fill of "bugs", also known as crawdads here in the "liberal" NW.

[Hebrew Battle Rifle]

Originally Posted by nwobhm

Need an "E" barrel and I'm close to done.

What exactly are you looking for?

[jimmbob]

Originally Posted by Exit308

excess weight.... If you sell them to Chris then he will have about way more than he can use and that would not be "fair and balanced". .

I'd love to sell them to Chris but his fence is already starting to lean due to the excess weight. Before ya know it his fence will be laying horizontal on the ground and I don't need his wife blaming me. Fr. Vincent is the one who talked me into buying that darn singlewide, where is he now when I need help

[tx_oil]

I think your parts kits would be happier with the freedom of a large Central Texas ranch to play on. Chris' place is like a concentration camp for FALs, all jammed up together and forced to hold up a stinkin' fence, with occasional gang fights between the poodle shooters and the real riFALs.
Ergo, they SHOULD be relocated to a home where they can reach out at long range, destroy feral pigs and coyotes and enjoy the Texas sunshine. It's really the only humane thing to do.
When can I expect delivery?

[TOM DONIPHON]

Kits are not really drying up, they are running off and ponding in Jug's storage facility!

[quicksand]

Originally Posted by nwobhm

IMHO this hobby will die without an influx of kits. Last year I had 12 StG kits. I'm down to 2 with 1 incoming. I search daily for quality parts, I find little. Most stuff I see now is junk. Even the common Imbel kits are gone.

I agree.

A good sign of this is five or six years ago I don't remember people tearing down existing rifles to part them out too much.

An STG kit and receiver is worth more then the completed rifles because the demand is coming from guys who love to put them together.

The marketplace was full of completed FAL's then, now it's slim pickings.

The price of ammo and the lack of kits is the combo that will make FAL's popularity continue to decline.

I personally think completed rifles will be a buyers market for several years to come.

[MakNorinco]

Not sure I agree, I don't see the price of FAL rifles skyrocketing, I listed one locally, imbel build and had people offering me $400, sayin $850 was "insane".


Thats why I quit selling FAL barrels too, people lowballing the last 6 months like crazy, "well since its an OLD, SURPLUS barrel, I think $100 is fair". They can continue to sit in the pile at the current pricing..


Feels more like the FAL is dying, because like someone said, no parts, and if guns go up too much, forget it new buyers will buy AKs or ARs

[CharlieK27x]

Originally Posted by quicksand

I agree.

A good sign of this is five or six years ago I don't remember people tearing down existing rifles to part them out too much.

An STG kit and receiver is worth more then the completed rifles because the demand is coming from guys who love to put them together.

The marketplace was full of completed FAL's then, now it's slim pickings.

The price of ammo and the lack of kits is the combo that will make FAL's popularity continue to decline.

I personally think completed rifles will be a buyers market for several years to come.

I'm with you on that. I've torn down four rifles in the last month because I can't find the parts I need any other way.

[d_s]

The way I see it is the new blood coming into this get all their info from COD and think that MP5's and M4 clones are the holy grail of "Assault/Sniper" rifles, the FAL is viewed as an obsolete club, I pity their short sighted ignorance

[d_s]

A relevant story, I recently put a like new condition STG58 Kit built on a DSA Type 1 for $1600 on GB, which is more or less cost when you consider the kits alone go for a grand, and I was getting notes from people saying the price should be around $800-900 and that you could buy a comparable DSA "STG" for around that price, WTF?!?!?!!

[Dime is Money]

We need to get the barrel ban repealed.
I personally think the ban is unjustifiable--a barrel is not a gun; it's no different than a trigger group or the evil pistol grip. A receiver being torched is understandable (but like nails on a chalk board), having to demill a BARREL THAT IS 50% OF THE KITS VALUE is complete bullshit.

I'm sorry but current parts kits are damn near worthless if you want to build a nice rifle. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

And guns are not "running out" in this world. That's foolish to think that. We might not be seeing them in the US but there's still guns out there.

[CharlieK27x]

Originally Posted by d_s

A relevant story, I recently put a like new condition STG58 Kit built on a DSA Type 1 for $1600 on GB, which is more or less cost when you consider the kits alone go for a grand, and I was getting notes from people saying the price should be around $800-900 and that you could buy a comparable DSA "STG" for around that price, WTF?!?!?!!

Sadly that is the case right now. I just bought an STG on a DSA type II reciver for $950 on GunBroker.

[7.62mm_NATO]

It costs at least $1000 to build a new FAL and used magazines are selling for as much as new SR-25 pattern mags so people are starting to look more at modern/standardized designs.

We will probably see more FAL's for sale as people decide to move to an AR-10 or SR-25 type rifle.

I will always have at least one FAL around but an SR-25 type rifle with adjustable stock, grip and bipod will easily outshoot an FAL even with crap ammo. They are also quite reliable despite the internet rumors.

[BC]

So what? The market will adjust itself.

[Hebrew Battle Rifle]

Originally Posted by Dime is Money

A receiver being torched is understandable (but like nails on a chalk board),

Really? Please, enlighten me. As I do not understand it at all.

[C2A1]

I think FALs will go the way of the BM-59, SIG AMT and simuilar 7.62 NATO rifles. Those in the know will seek them out. Orginals bring more and good kit rifles being ratioed lower. Yes, a DSA can be had for $950.00 but is it in the same class as an original kit rifle. Not in my opinion especially with a good orginal barrel. Days of original kit builds will be limited even if they bring in a few 100-1000 kits from where ever in the future. And will DSA/Coonan/Enterprise still be making receivers? Even now it is getting harder to put the correct rifle togather than it was 3 years ago. Let's face it we lived thru the haydays of rifles, kits and ammo. Today we are getting the sweepings. Later it will be crumbs. I have noticed the lack of FALs at gunshows. Folks love them and they quitely disappear.
Just my $.02

[LaConservationist]

Originally Posted by MakNorinco

Feels more like the FAL is dying, because like someone said, no parts, and if guns go up too much, forget it new buyers will buy AKs or ARs

Call me SELFISH and INSENSITIVE ......BUT I am FINE with that!!!

LaC

[CharlieK27x]

Originally Posted by C2A1

Yes, a DSA can be had for $950.00 but is it in the same class as an original kit rifle. Not in my opinion especially with a good orginal barrel.

Yes that is with an original STG barrel in excellent condition. This is the third DSA/STG rifle that I have bought and broken down for parts. All with original barrels, two were matching numbers and all three were under $1,000. Right now complete rifles are worth less than the sum of there parts. I think it is because people have become really specific about what parts they want in there rifles and you can never be sure what parts were used in a build unless you can completely disassemble the rifle before you buy it. So whether the rifle was build by DSA or Snidly Whiplash your never really sure what you have untill you het it home and break it down.
Just what I see going on these days.
Charlie

[Exit308]

Well Fellas, there were "X" number of parts kits imported and the only place they have gone is dispersed all over America from the importer to our "parts dungeons". Many have been broken up and sold as individual parts and there are extra parts in thousands of boxes all over the country. Now the new guys can buy them as they appear and reassemble parts kits and build rifles. Probably at some point the receiver makers will find it uneconomical to serve this market, but that is probably a way off yet. In the meantime, we can break'em and rebuild'em till the cows come home. They won't be gone or lose their popularity as long as they are still around. BC is absolutely correct. The market will adjust to whatever the demand is. Besides, if they ever become unpopular I will be able to build my picket fence out of rifles.

[Thorack]

Well,

Lee Carpentari here on the files workers for an arms importer. His comments basically boiled down are he doesnt see many if any kits coming in and those that do will probably be more expensive than we have paid in the past. If any one had told me I'd pay $550 for an Argy kit from Sarco a few years ago they would have been laughed out the door. I just bought a Sarco kit. Prices are only going up.

Thorack