Thumb Safety Opinion

ByronF · March 31, 2012, 06:51

Guys,

I'm not a 1911 expert but they are my favorite pistola. I have a Kimber Compact, which is a basic Officer style carry piece without a lot of fluff. I also have an Rock Island GI-style 5".

I have decided I'm going old-timey on the Kimber thumb safety. Even with a humped grip safety I occasionally experience failure to engage the grip safety. The root cause is how my muscle-memory interacts with the thumb safety. With a two handed grip my right hand thumb tends to ride the safety, which is too high and brings the drumstick of my thumb up off the safety just enough to OCCASIONALLY disengage. This is a self-induced reliability problem that bothers me greatly.

Even without a humped grip safety I never have the same issue with my RIA which has a GI type thumb safety. The GI safety's shelf is further aft and slightly lower. I think the location fore-aft is the biggest issue because it keeps my thumb knuckle up high. The GI safety is aft of my knuckle so I can get my thumb down where it's supposed to be. I find no disadvantage in my ability to click off the smaller safety, either. So I'm going to install the same type of safety on my Kimber.

NEWFNL1A1 · March 31, 2012, 07:47

I just read something about this in Bill Wilson's book. What you describe is similar to the old Jeff Cooper grip method that required some guys to pin/de-activate the grip safety back in the early days of combat shooting.

I don't ride up on the safety but even back when I competed in combat matches, I never had a problem with a std size safety. It what you train with I guess....I trained with a mostly stock Gold Cup and could win matches against guys with $3500.00 custom guns. It's what you get used to.....

Go back to the standard size one but practice enough with the Kimber to make sure it's second nature.

ByronF · March 31, 2012, 08:50

I agree about using what works for the shooter. An extended safety is probably an an ergonomic improvement for most, but I have a habit that I don't think I can trust myself to break. Instead, I'll adjust the pistol to fit my quirk. What the extended safety brings to the table isn't worth what I give up. If I don't have any issue clicking off a standard safety then a longer safety is of zero benefit.

Here's an ergo tip for those shooting officer frames: ask Hogue to make a set of officer stocks with the bottom squared off and with no cutout for the mainspring housing retaining pin. Essentially giving the officer stocks the same treatment as those intended for S&A style magwells. This gives just a slightly better purchase on the shorter grip and also eliminates the annoying pointy corner around the MSH pin cutout.

**W.E.G.** · March 31, 2012, 09:06

shlomo · March 31, 2012, 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.G.

This thread is about safeties.

Don't even get me started.

**tdb59** · March 31, 2012, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by shlomo

This thread is about safeties.

Don't even get me started.

AYE !

AndyC · March 31, 2012, 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.G.

I win.

ByronF · March 31, 2012, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.G.

The only thing worse than a troublesome thumb safety is a pistol that doesn't point where I aim because the grip angle is made for European limp-wrists. I can overcome the former with a thumb safety as designed by JMB. The latter requires that I watch lots of independent films and listen to show-tunes.

I'll stick with the 1911, but I'm just fooling about my opinion on the Glock. One can't argue with success, and I'd say the Glock is every bit the pistol as a 1911, it just isn't for me. Once you learn a grip angle you just can't change to something so different as a 1911 to a Glock. Wish it wasn't so because they're good pieces. But I'd rather fix my 1911 problem than retrain my muscle-memory. I can't think I'd ever be able to shoot instinctively with a Glock though their reliability cannot be argued.

ByronF · March 31, 2012, 19:39

Here are the stocks on my Officer-size carry piece:

And the RIA with slighly bobbed hammer and the basic JMB safety that works for me:

ByronF · March 31, 2012, 19:42

Notice the less than lovely fit of the mag release cutout on the Kimber. Maybe you'd want to order without that cutout and just fit it yourself. But it works so I didn't fuss about it.

Aifwikir · April 01, 2012, 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByronF

Notice the less than lovely fit of the mag release cutout on the Kimber. Maybe you'd want to order without that cutout and just fit it yourself. But it works so I didn't fuss about it.

It's okay, Notice the less than neat fit on my RIA Compact. With either set of grips

Not sure why this happens.

Aif

emcroy · April 06, 2012, 04:04

You can remove material from the bottom of the portion of the grip safety that engages the rear of the trigger bow untill you get the effect desired, no need to pin the safety!

fire for effect · April 07, 2012, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.G.

This is a 1911 thread. don't be posting your glock crap here. J. Browning will rise up from the grave and beat you to a pulp.

D P Six · April 08, 2012, 21:17

Love everything about a 1911...but I carry a revolver. Safety problem solved.

yyz · April 09, 2012, 21:24

there is a reason that there are a couple dozen 1911 safeties out there. find the one that works for you. make no apologizes for using what works for you.

and for you glock guys

TideWater 41009 · April 10, 2012, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by yyz

there is a reason that there are a couple dozen 1911 safeties out there. find the one that works for you. make no apologizes for using what works for you.

and for you glock guys

Hhahahhahaaa!!! Telling some they are not smart, while using "your" instead of "you are" or "you're" is just not going to impress anyone!

AndyC · April 10, 2012, 14:17

Gotta agree with that

yyz · April 10, 2012, 15:20

hmm never noticed that before but then i have trouble with two to and too. can't claim it as mine as i found it else were and thought it to funny not to share when the time was right.

TideWater 41009 · April 10, 2012, 18:58

The time was perfect, and it was made even more humorous by the spelling error blowing away the smugness of the caption!

March 31, 2012, 06:51	#1
ByronF Registered FALaholic #: 630 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,174	Thumb Safety Opinion Guys, I'm not a 1911 expert but they are my favorite pistola. I have a Kimber Compact, which is a basic Officer style carry piece without a lot of fluff. I also have an Rock Island GI-style 5". I have decided I'm going old-timey on the Kimber thumb safety. Even with a humped grip safety I occasionally experience failure to engage the grip safety. The root cause is how my muscle-memory interacts with the thumb safety. With a two handed grip my right hand thumb tends to ride the safety, which is too high and brings the drumstick of my thumb up off the safety just enough to OCCASIONALLY disengage. This is a self-induced reliability problem that bothers me greatly. Even without a humped grip safety I never have the same issue with my RIA which has a GI type thumb safety. The GI safety's shelf is further aft and slightly lower. I think the location fore-aft is the biggest issue because it keeps my thumb knuckle up high. The GI safety is aft of my knuckle so I can get my thumb down where it's supposed to be. I find no disadvantage in my ability to click off the smaller safety, either. So I'm going to install the same type of safety on my Kimber.

March 31, 2012, 07:47	#2
NEWFNL1A1 Out standing in his field Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 43401 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tx Posts: 3,193	Wow.... I just read something about this in Bill Wilson's book. What you describe is similar to the old Jeff Cooper grip method that required some guys to pin/de-activate the grip safety back in the early days of combat shooting. I don't ride up on the safety but even back when I competed in combat matches, I never had a problem with a std size safety. It what you train with I guess....I trained with a mostly stock Gold Cup and could win matches against guys with $3500.00 custom guns. It's what you get used to..... Go back to the standard size one but practice enough with the Kimber to make sure it's second nature. __________________ Neo-Luddite - Traigo Mi Cuarenta y Cinco - Inch Guy I'm just a peckerwood who lives in the hills with too many hours on Call of Duty. Last edited by NEWFNL1A1; March 31, 2012 at 08:07.

March 31, 2012, 09:06	#4
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,052	__________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

April 06, 2012, 04:04	#12
emcroy Registered Contributor FALaholic #: 33420 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: IL Posts: 1,006	You can remove material from the bottom of the portion of the grip safety that engages the rear of the trigger bow untill you get the effect desired, no need to pin the safety! __________________ "It's not that we're that good, it's just that everyone else sucks"

April 09, 2012, 21:24	#15
yyz Registered FALaholic #: 6059 Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 12	there is a reason that there are a couple dozen 1911 safeties out there. find the one that works for you. make no apologizes for using what works for you. and for you glock guys __________________ if you can't buy off a merc who can you trust?

March 31, 2012, 08:50	#3
ByronF Registered FALaholic #: 630 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,174	I agree about using what works for the shooter. An extended safety is probably an an ergonomic improvement for most, but I have a habit that I don't think I can trust myself to break. Instead, I'll adjust the pistol to fit my quirk. What the extended safety brings to the table isn't worth what I give up. If I don't have any issue clicking off a standard safety then a longer safety is of zero benefit. Here's an ergo tip for those shooting officer frames: ask Hogue to make a set of officer stocks with the bottom squared off and with no cutout for the mainspring housing retaining pin. Essentially giving the officer stocks the same treatment as those intended for S&A style magwells. This gives just a slightly better purchase on the shorter grip and also eliminates the annoying pointy corner around the MSH pin cutout.

March 31, 2012, 19:39	#9
ByronF Registered FALaholic #: 630 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,174	Here are the stocks on my Officer-size carry piece: And the RIA with slighly bobbed hammer and the basic JMB safety that works for me:

March 31, 2012, 19:42	#10
ByronF Registered FALaholic #: 630 Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,174	Notice the less than lovely fit of the mag release cutout on the Kimber. Maybe you'd want to order without that cutout and just fit it yourself. But it works so I didn't fuss about it.

April 08, 2012, 21:17	#14
D P Six Registered FALaholic #: 15219 Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 2,082	Love everything about a 1911...but I carry a revolver. Safety problem solved.

April 10, 2012, 14:17	#17
AndyC Porridge Wog Contributor FALaholic #: 19755 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Euless, TX Posts: 11,061	Gotta agree with that __________________ My Iraq Pics Preferred Travel Agent - 72 Virgins Dating Club

April 10, 2012, 15:20	#18
yyz Registered FALaholic #: 6059 Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 12	hmm never noticed that before but then i have trouble with two to and too. can't claim it as mine as i found it else were and thought it to funny not to share when the time was right. __________________ if you can't buy off a merc who can you trust?

April 10, 2012, 18:58	#19
TideWater 41009 Registered FALaholic #: 1789 Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 1,364	The time was perfect, and it was made even more humorous by the spelling error blowing away the smugness of the caption!

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