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Old March 14, 2012, 19:50   #1
kvincent
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Doomsday Bunkers

I was browsing the Deep Earth Bunkers web site the other day because I was looking for a low cost alternative to one of their palatial bunkers. If they are watching sites like FalFiles, I encourage them to come out with a fully engineered but basic unit that I can fit out myself.

I noticed that they say their bunkers are "back filled" or otherwise "encased" in concrete and that they don't allow photos or videos of that because of fear of "intellectual property theft". Fair enough. They also state that the reason they are welding up the additional frameworks is to accomodate this concrete. We all know that a shipping container has weak sides and top, so please don't go there. My question is: has anyone that is qualified looked into this? They say they have have professional engineers "on staff" (whatever that means), but concrete over painted steel seems like trouble to me when it comes to moisture penetration. Anybody worked something out? I've even thought of Rhino lining the whole thing...

Anybody have some suggestions on how to do this without forking over $48,000 for a 8x40 container?

BTW, best of luck to the Deep Earth Bunker guys. I wish them the best. I do OK, but I don't have the cheese to buy one of their turn key solutions. It doesn't mean that I don't appreciate their solution.

Kerry
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Old March 15, 2012, 16:32   #2
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Steel buried in the ground rusts. How thick detemines how fast. I am guessing the supplier is expecting the purchaser to be dead before structure is rusted out. I don't know the configuration or details. Finns and Germans just used reinforced concrete for below ground structures...still dank and leaky, but bomb resistant.
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Old March 15, 2012, 23:13   #3
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STEEL + EARTH - GALVANIC PROTECTION = EXTREMELY SHORT LIFE

STEEL + EARTH = CONDENSATION

unless of course you click the heels of your ruby slippers with closed eyes and whispering "there's no place like home....."

They could use a funkadelic theme song to make the show more, uh, engaging?

"....TACTICAL SHACK,
THAT'S WHERE IT'S AT.....,
TACTICAL SHACK,
THAT'S WHERE IT'S AT.....,
TACTICAL SHACK,
THAT'S WHERE IT'S AT......"
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Old March 16, 2012, 09:34   #4
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Go to a local gasoline jobber and ask where they get their gas tank annoids (sp?) and steel tank coating . Buy at least 4 of the big annoids and as much of the coating as you need. Attach them to the steel shelter to stop them from rusting for years. Don't forget the bottom.
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Old March 16, 2012, 22:16   #5
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getting trapped under ground by hostiles would be a nightmare. imagine getting the air feeds cutoff or someone pouring gas into the air system. i will take my chances with the sun on my face
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Old March 17, 2012, 01:31   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0302 View Post
getting trapped under ground by hostiles would be a nightmare.
I agree to some extent. It does seem the Deep Earth Bunkers guys are overlooking the fact that an obvious horizontal door and numerous venting and breathing pipes in the area might be a target. It's definitely worth asking about.

Still, taking your chances in the open is very risky. Even with a large and dependable group on your side, a determined adversary will wait for a moment of weakness and succeed. Please refer to the battle of San Jacinto in the Texas war for independence as an example.

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Old March 17, 2012, 02:33   #7
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Lots of fiction written about how to defeat these type of situations...
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Old March 18, 2012, 09:22   #8
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Dude! I been looking at them for years. Long time ago I spotted Radius Engineering. Their stuff seemed to be the cream of the crop. I should have popped for an SP6 model back in the day when they were about 25k. They have different models now, and much more expensive. But these are the shiz, I am not aware of any better.

Check them out. No concrete, no steel.

http://www.bomb-shelter.net/

I think the RC8 is the smallest they sell now. Base price is now $118K.

http://www.bomb-shelter.net/rc8.php

I don't have any association with them. Wish I did.

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Old March 18, 2012, 11:11   #9
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If you have a large enough piece of property.
and
If you could conceal the bunker.
and
If you have the construction skills.


I would build it myself, using reinforced concrete, my own equipment and my own concrete batch plant.

Otherwise, everybody in the county that you hired and their brother knows what you have built, where it is and they can guess or imagine what is in there making your bunker and YOU a target.
Which kills most of the reasons for having a bunker.

Moisture and concrete are dealt with by drainage.
You can't dig a hole, where all the water naturally drains to, in poor draining soil and not have moisture issues.
Attempting to seal out the moisture without good drainage eventually always fails.

Ideally built and buried at the top of a small hill of good draining soil. Then the perimeter surrounded with drain lines to a dry well or lower elevation.




............juanni
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Old March 18, 2012, 11:47   #10
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Shipping containers may easily be reinforced to hold a load, like any structure. They can be sealed against moisture, blah blah blah.... Thing is, people have been living comfortably (and uncomfortably) underground for eons, so there are plenty of designs and methods out there to attain that goal. Thing is, once you're under there, you're trapped. Sure, it's more difficult to winkle you out, but it's pretty easy to starve, gas, burn, or just wait you out. That is, unless you have the money to built a missile silo and stock it with enough crap for the foreseeable (and unforeseeable) future.

The advantages of mobility outweigh the liabilities of forting up. Even a groundhog has multiple openings to allow escape in his underground warren.
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Old March 22, 2012, 19:23   #11
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I forgot to mention that if you look closely at the Deep Earth Bunkers website, it states that they seal the steel and then encase the whole thing in concrete (gunnite?). They claim to be very careful about showing it on the show or the site because it is a 'trade secret'.

I'm more interested in the bunker as a last resort and for storage than trying to live for a year underground. I think a properly built house can be inconspicuous and very resistant to gunfire, breaking and entering, and fire. Id just like a safe room or hideaway for when the times require it.
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Old March 22, 2012, 20:34   #12
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Yep, slade.... the whistle pigs usually keep 3 exit/entries. Anyone wishing to "go to ground" should do the same!

If yer gonna go to all the trouble to go "below", ya best have all the angles covered. Any more than a week or ten days under, and things get awful ripe.

Water and moisture can be abated. Air quality can be assured. heat and light can be supplied. Storage and provisions taken care of...no worries.
Just be aware that all that will cost more than the structure.
Unless yer prepared ta live in a bog, sewer pipe or bacteria factory; make plans and investments properly.

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Old March 22, 2012, 20:44   #13
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kvincent;

8X40 for 48k!?!?!?
OMG!

I'm not an engineer, nor did I play one last nite on HBO; but.......

There's lotsa options for security and shelter. Most of it hinges on finding the right combination that works with yer site, needs and budget.

Alternate structures and methods abound. Earth berm, rammed earth, dirt-crete, partial embedment (like a 'soddy') and hill-side/bank barn are just a few of the low tech starts.
All depends on yer tastes, imagination and wallet size
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Old March 22, 2012, 21:32   #14
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Another option you could look into is precast box culverts, they already have standard designs for soil and vehicle loads.






..........juanni
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Old March 25, 2012, 04:24   #15
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kvincent;

8X40 for 48k!?!?!?
OMG!
I'm with you! I seems ridiculous to me. I was browsing their site looking for ways to do it myself.

I'm not especially interested in a six month stay underground, but I like the idea of a temporary shelter and storage place. More like an overgrown basement (which we don't usually have in Texas).
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Old March 25, 2012, 06:15   #16
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bunker

Years ago I installed a precast septic tank that came in 2 pieces. It sealed together in the middle. The cost was not bad. It came with a 2 foot opening in the top.
If you put gravel under it and could run a drain from the gravel and then waterproof the outside with mastic it would make a fine foundation for a small outbuilding.
I do not remember the size. But I had to use a ladder to get into and out.
It must have been at least 6 x 6 as I could not touch the walls.
You could store a lot in that size. I am sure you could buy larger sizes.
When you bought it, you dug the hole, and the company delivered it and sealed it together.
Most of you city boys may not know what a septic tank is.
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Old March 25, 2012, 09:32   #17
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Electric utilities and others use all kinds and sizes of pre-cast concrete vaults.

There have to be lots of options available out there for pre-cast concrete structures.
But, you'll still have to figure out how to make them work for you.
If they will.
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Old March 25, 2012, 10:02   #18
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Given a choice between standing out in the open bump-firing at zombies until I'm overwhelmed...

versus

Spending weeks/months underground with a bunch of unbathed fugkers who got nothing to eat but BEANS...

I'll take the bump-firing and zombies.
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Old March 26, 2012, 22:58   #19
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Why have to choose?
I say sink a container or two. They need the drainage as stated but DO NOT have to be load bearring. one could use scrap I beams or locus timber to frame up a box frame around them in the excavation and stout joists ,metal or wood, plywood then covered in mylar moisture barrier , and wire mat. you can rent a gas/desiel large mixer and only use family and the closest of friends [if not enough family are available]
You can also mix blasting shot or other sources of lead into the concrete[or you can lay lead plate down durring pour.] this is to reduce scanning but more for radiation.
YES at least two min but prefreably -three hidden exits. [anybody remember hogans heros?]
one can use 3'x4' tunnels with concrete roofs and a timber frame [or if ya got the $ concrete sides. Rember drainage.
then theres hiding your air intakes and filtering them.

I can envision climatic storms when extended shelter from surface conditions could be necessary for survival.
I woulds also include several full sized oxygen tanks , tubbing,manifold and mask for everyone. If theres a forest fire and your cut off from evac, you can go downstairs ,button up and when the fire goes over you ,place masks on and live. I would hope to keep all zombies for being too near, hence - the both option choice. I say limit exits and entries, but unless hostile weather, guard should always be posted outside while family is snug and safe.
this message is for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.
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Old March 27, 2012, 10:41   #20
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I would build it myself, using reinforced concrete, my own equipment and my own concrete batch plant.

Otherwise, everybody in the county that you hired and their brother knows what you have built, where it is and they can guess or imagine what is in there making your bunker and YOU a target.
The guys who built mine all suffered unfortunate accidents soon after the punch list was completed...sad really....
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Old March 27, 2012, 16:37   #21
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The one thing that concerns me is the one exit door, flat on the ground. Whatif something falls due to wind or accident on your door or some yahoo parks a truck on it? What then, you built one helluva expensive tomb...i like the above ground option......although those blast proof doors are badass
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Old June 01, 2012, 11:36   #22
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Looking for a condo that will survive disasters both natural and unnatural (i.e., the Zombie Apocalypse)? 



So are a lot of other people, apparently, as we recently caught wind from CNET that the trendy flats on offer at Survival Condo — a converted nuclear ballistic missile silo in Kansas — have already sold out.
http://www.tgdaily.com/sustainabilit...ondos-sell-out
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Old June 01, 2012, 14:29   #23
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A method the might work out well is ta use a steel container and concrete shell.
Of course, ya hafta dig the hole; but only dig it 1 foot (+/-) bigger that the unit, all the way 'round. Center the container in the hole over well drained stone, and place rebar cage . S-L-O-W-L-Y pour in short, 12-18 inch [vertical] increments...allowing some time for the previous pour to set; but not so such that it won;t bond to the next..commonly known as a "step-pour".
THe top can be steel'd and poured just lie a slab; with the addition of girts and posts to carry the extra load while pouring and curing.
Access can be wherever ya want; depending on site conditions and needs. While yer digging and pouring, plan a lower escape hatch using concrete pipe from a hole cut in the side wall; a drop down hatch thru teh roof with curbed lid in the concrete overhead and perhaps one elsewhere at yer discretion, just for S&G.

For NBC shelters, it's common to use a labyrinth/maze entry hall. IMHO, the sort of shelters we're talking, that would be a waste of usable space..tho thinking about it.. would make a nice "beaten zone" for defending against Zombies!

Once set and cured; place fill over and around the unit and landscape to match or contrast. Ya can get real creative with air supply vents.

One idea was to place the container/shelter below the usual sand-mound septic system; or at least near enuff (uphill) that the "bump" in the ground and pipes exposed to view would not seem extraordinary.
Another would be as the foundation for a utility building/shed; or possibly alongside and existing septic tank.

Oh! To be building new and have the readies for all the possibilities!
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Old June 02, 2012, 19:20   #24
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During ww2 the Russian Army and partisans made good use of decidedly bargain basement underground hideouts/shelters/bunkers. Of course, being the Red Army you have an unending supply of recruits to stock such bunkers.
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Old June 03, 2012, 09:13   #25
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You could always try a $17.5 mil Group Purchase
http://gizmodo.com/olavsvern-naval-submarine-base/
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Old June 04, 2012, 14:32   #26
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can you spray it with truck bed liner??
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Old June 04, 2012, 18:54   #27
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I saw these in the back of my latest Major Surplus catalog...
http://www.atlassurvivalshelters.com/
Kinda has that U-571 feel to it...
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Old June 04, 2012, 20:23   #28
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wow, those look nicer than my house!
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Old June 05, 2012, 01:45   #29
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When they deploy the Scalar weapons, you wont be able to go deep enough to survive, "they" use it and we are dead, check out the HAARP .

Surviving is a crap shoot folks, plain and simple.
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Old June 05, 2012, 09:54   #30
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IN that case , we oughta place our bunkers under the local 7-11 !!
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Old June 05, 2012, 10:02   #31
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Might check out culverts they use under highways. Metal is water resistant and you can easily add escape routes useing smaller culverts. If they will hold up under a roadway then they would make a good bunker for as long as you would live.
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Old June 05, 2012, 13:48   #32
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For my own edification and enjoyment, I drew up a "plan" using an 8 ft. dia, "pipe". Could be a culvert, a drain pipe, a storage tank, etc.

Assuming 7ft. clearance to sole/floor; that would provide a 5'-3" wide flat surface. Where the sole meets the curved wall, there would be 6ft. till ya bump yer head. Plenny of room left for fited cabinets, built in seating and fold up tables and bunks. Think "sailboat" and yer halfway there! THe space under the sole would/could be drain lines, sump, plumbing/electric chase, damp storage, whathaveyou.

I s'pose I could shelter very comfortably in an old 8X20-some tank of some sort. THe major advantage of a tank is that you wouldn't need to reinforce to the extreme that you would a conex/container and the only place ya'd need extra shielding would be directly above...IOW...IF you want equiv. of 3 ft. of fill above, you only need to add extra from the same line as the sole..about 82 degree's worth, about 5'-8" wide, following the contour/circum., the full length. Lead sheet? mo' steel? Coppper wire mesh? Who knows? Depends on needs/circumstances.

So.......
Iff'n ya have a tank outfit nearby and ya wanna check on "seconds"....

Bed it in drainage stone, add a second hattch for a 3' dia. escape tulnnel and add a few PVC pipes for fresh air circulation. Then buy a good jig saw for interior "remodeling"
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Old June 05, 2012, 14:01   #33
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A secret underground safe room might be nice to have, for fallout or when being overcome by invaders. Once it's discovered or known it has less utility. Effectively a siege situation.
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Old June 05, 2012, 18:08   #34
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Question Bunkers & Shelters

Some interesting designs and information here, still a lot of money -

http://utahsheltersystems.com/index.php
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Old June 08, 2012, 15:44   #35
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Smile

You might want to look up the old British Anderson corrugated/galvanized iron shelter that was dug into the back yard in a roughly 4ft hole with the dirt shoveled over the top to build a short term bomb shelter .The problem with bunkers is that they are underground with one way in & one way out , set up somebody outside with a rifle & you are pinned down like a rat in a trap.. Are you planning for a tornado shelter or a refuge from the 'zombies'?
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Old June 11, 2012, 14:12   #36
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Americans got real good at using flame throwers on caves packed with Japanese soldiers or just bull dozing the opening shut during WW II, either way the occupants never saw daylight again. Even the mighty Ft. Drum with its 25 -60 foot thick steel reinforced concrete walls in the Philippines was neutralized by using diesel and gasoline and ignited, eliminating the Japanese defenders inside.
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I forgot to mention that if you look closely at the Deep Earth Bunkers website, it states that they seal the steel and then encase the whole thing in concrete (gunnite?). They claim to be very careful about showing it on the show or the site because it is a 'trade secret'.
I get so sick of companies saying they won't show off their process and/or their product supposedly claiming they're trying to protect their IP. First off someone can buy their product and reverse engineer it. Second what they're REALLY saying is that anybody can do this we just figured out a trick or two on how to do it. What a load of crap.
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Old June 12, 2012, 09:52   #37
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Oops, wrong thread - see
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Old June 07, 2013, 18:29   #38
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Everything you could want for a nuclear fallout from Kleenex to unappetizing cans of 'multi-purpose food': California couple discover perfectly preserved 1961 fallout shelter 15 feet below their backyard
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Kleenex.html
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Old June 08, 2013, 15:31   #39
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While a sho-nuff underground retreat would be the bomb (pun intended) a hardened basement under your regular house would get a lot more use and be more practical. Easy to do and easy to explain as a hurricane/tornado shelter. Poured concrete block walls with precast slabs on them for the ceiling/floor above. Make a plan now for the escape tunnels (belled concrete pipe) but don’t install the until everybody is gone and you’ve had your final inspections, including the bank. Finance it in with the house and make it happen instead of just dreaming/planning about living in a can in the back yard. Oh, if you plan it right, the escape tunnels can be firing lines from your basement range. Just put a fan down at the end to keep a constant flow of air toward the target and away from you.
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Old June 13, 2013, 10:27   #40
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what about a cave or mines? i am in Florida and if i dig 2 inches i hit water.
i want to move to the Ozarks, find a spot of land with a cave, live in a shed, so most people will say nothing here, and keep on moving along.
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Old June 30, 2013, 19:03   #41
Roadmarker
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I don't think there will be looters out and about for long during a radialogical attack. Exposure will quickly thin the herd. A deep earth bunker would come in very handy waiting for the RADs to go down. Remember someone has to survive and re-populate.
As for using your bunker for a fighting position, the only way I think this is workable is to have some kind of forifications on the surface and many access points. Maybe think of it more as a command and control bunker. I would try to conceal everything, maybe even use dead stumps or faux rocks for intakes or exhaust. The worst thing is you're gonna have to do is mount a watch. I hate watches they deprive you of sleep, but they are essential.
If you still have an effective power source and perimeter detection you might get by with an alarm system. A working camera system might offer observation and secrecy. Patrols might be called for to extend your eyes, but this must be done while remaining hiden and off the radar.
The hardened basement idea is a very stealthy way to go. If ground water is not an issue a sub-basement would be even better. You could still live in relative comfort. You would be putting yourself in a seige situation if you were to come under a sustained attack from a superior force. Much better to have a fallback position or two. It would be real hard to abandon such a set up, but if you want to survive you might have to.
I think we are just looking at protection from small groups looking for an opportunity. Keep it out of sight and you may be ok. I don't think anything but an ambush will work against a roving mob. You're gonna have to eradicate any threat you engage or your saftey is at stake. It definitely gonna be dog eat dog until civilization claws it's way back. You will be the judge, jury and executioner, so be prepared to take on those responsibilities. I'm betting it will come down to mind set. If you are ready to survive you will.

Last edited by Roadmarker; June 30, 2013 at 19:15.
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Old June 30, 2013, 20:05   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kvincent View Post
Still, taking your chances in the open is very risky. Even with a large and dependable group on your side, a determined adversary will wait for a moment of weakness and succeed. Please refer to the battle of San Jacinto in the Texas war for independence as an example.
Please refer to the Alamo for an example of a siege

I would not find having one hidden for a fall back for storage. But I would not want to live there. Living there would eventually give away the location.

A big group of people in an area the size of a few football fields would do me better.
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Old July 04, 2013, 20:55   #43
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I don't see why concrete is not a viable option. It has been used in untold thousands of underground positions, from shallow pits, to pillboxes, to the bunkers under the Greenbrier. Drainage and design are the keys.

Let's be frank: A determined foe is going to use whatever means necessary to get you out of your hole. Sure, you might kill a bunch of them, but fire and maneuver is usually better than fire and stay in one place, especially when the enemy knows where you are.
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