Calumet City Police Shoot, Kill Boy with Autism

[JAB75]

Please explain how anyone could justify this.

-JAB75

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/02/...-calumet-city/

Police in Calumet City were defending their actions Wednesday after officers shot and killed a 15-year-old boy, who has a form of autism, after he threatened them with a knife.

Stephon Watts’ family said he suffered from Asperger’s Syndrome — a high-functioning form of autism — and attention deficit disorder.

As CBS 2′s Susanna Song and WBBM Newsradio’s Steve Miller report, they claimed the boy was only holding a butter knife. Police would only describe it as a “kitchen knife.”

[SWOHFAL]

About 15 years ago in KC the cops killed a retard with a BBQ fork.

[Beckman]

I'm all for police restraint and I believe that excessive force should be a criminal matter, but when somebody attacks with a knife, then an officer is allowed to defend himself with lethal force. It doesn't matter if the knifer is 15yo and has autism.

The mom claims that it was merely a "butter knife," but somehow it cut the officer's arm, through his uniform.

“He had a butter knife and … my husband said that he lunged at the police officer.”

Perhaps the officer, after getting cut once, should have had the presence of mind to realize that even though the "butter knife" was able to cut his arm, it somehow wasn't really a lethal threat. Maybe the officer should have called a ten minute Time Out so that he could test the sharpness of the knife and examine his wound. Too bad things don't work that way on this planet.

...“Every last one of you know my son has autism.”

Gilmore said police had been called to the home 10 times since 2010 to deal with the boy.

So, just because the boy was a "regular customer" he should be allowed to use lethal force on an officer?

“They didn’t have to shoot him. They could have tasered the child. He’s only 15 years old,” Wayne Watts said.

I thought that Tasers were immoral and the tool of the Devil? If I was an officer facing a knife-wielding attacker, I woudn't feel safe using a Taser unless I had a very safe distance AND at least one other cop pointing a gun at the knifer (preferably, two other cops with shotguns pointing at the knifer).

Dr. Louis Kraus, professor and section chief of child and adolescent psychiatry at Rush University Medical Center, questioned whether deadly force was really necessary.

[...]

He said people with autism can frequently become aggressive, but not because they are trying to hurt someone.

I see, the kid slashed the officer, but he wasn't trying to hurt the officer. Well, maybe if the kid had said "sorry" after he slashed the officer, then there wouldn't have been this big misunderstanding. After all, the kid with the knife wasn't trying to hurt anybody, it was a friendly slash. Talk about psycho-babble BS.

Here's a photo of a victim of a knife attack. Did the person who did this have autism? Was the knifer over 21yo? DOES IT MATTER?

[JAB75]

Originally Posted by Beckman

I see, the kid slashed the officer, but he wasn't trying to hurt the officer. Well, maybe if the kid had said "sorry" after he slashed the officer, then there wouldn't have been this big misunderstanding. After all, the kid with the knife wasn't trying to hurt anybody, it was a friendly slash. Talk about psycho-babble BS.

Maybe if the officer was a bit more restrained, he/she could have used a nightstick, a punch, a rifle butt stroke, a kick, a tazer, a flashlight, a folding chair, mace, pistol whip, etc...to disarm a 15 year old autistic boy. Are they not trained in these basic techniques?

The level of force escalation seems to be way out of line for this situation.

-JAB75

[the gman]

Originally Posted by JAB75

Maybe if the officer was a bit more restrained, he/she could have used a nightstick, a punch, a rifle butt stroke, a kick, a tazer, a flashlight, a folding chair, mace, pistol whip, etc...to disarm a 15 year old autistic boy. Are they not trained in these basic techniques?

The level of force escalation seems to be way out of line for this situation.

-JAB75

How big was this 15 year old? Those folks with mental health issues often possess strength far in excess of their size. What was the exact situation?

To make comments about the 'escalation of force' without knowing the facts of the case is a bit premature.

As Beckman has so graphically illustrated, even a 15 year old with a simple knife can inflict a monstrous wound that may be life changing if not life ending.

You also have to ask what is going on with the parents if the statement that the PD had been there 10 times in less than 2 years to deal with this kid is true? At what point do you wake up and deny him access to weapons?

A butter knife usually doesn't cut through a shirt and skin and I think the mother is in denial and minimizing. Reading the full report into the incident will be very informative and perhaps we should wait for that before rushing to judgment.

[shlomo]

Originally Posted by the gman

How big was this 15 year old? Those folks with mental health issues often possess strength far in excess of their size. What was the exact situation?

To make comments about the 'escalation of force' without knowing the facts of the case is a bit premature.

As Beckman has so graphically illustrated, even a 15 year old with a simple knife can inflict a monstrous wound that may be life changing if not life ending.

You also have to ask what is going on with the parents if the statement that the PD had been there 10 times in less than 2 years to deal with this kid is true? At what point do you wake up and deny him access to weapons?

A butter knife usually doesn't cut through a shirt and skin and I think the mother is in denial and minimizing. Reading the full report into the incident will be very informative and perhaps we should wait for that before rushing to judgment.

I think yer takin' this calm rationality thing too far. I know I used to make fun of ya for havin' the occasional spit fit, but this shows how I need to be more careful in what I wish for.

[bakerjw]

The son of one of my coworkers is autistic and works in our facility picking up recyclables from our cubicles. He doesn't have many high level skills and really can't carry on a conversation but you can tell that he enjoys interacting with people even if we don't understand where he comes up with his comments. He makes references to cartoons and other shows from TV.

Anyway he is happy go lucky be he gets very frustrated and irate if he is corrected or if someone tells him how to do something or helps him do something. He had a bit of a fit this afternoon because he was going to make coffee and a lady told him that there was enough decaf to finish the day. If someone who didn't know him saw his behavior they'd have certainly expected that he was on some hallucinogen. I mean he really got wound up. If someone had touched him it'd have only escalated. I finished filling my cup with water and as I walked by said, "Have a good one Taylor." He calmed down immediately and replied "All right man John buddy man." It was a total reversal.

It is terrible that a kid with autism was killed but if you've never seen lash out behavior then you can't understand what the officer was dealing with and the amount of time that he had to understand what was going on.

[the gman]

Originally Posted by shlomo

I think yer takin' this calm rationality thing too far. I know I used to make fun of ya for havin' the occasional spit fit, but this shows how I need to be more careful in what I wish for.

Doing a job you love and getting decently treated makes a whole lot of difference to a man's outlook. Not to mention having a great wife and a lovely little girl can calm yer ass down in a hurry. There are *times* when I think about being quick draw McGraw on the keyboard but then I pause and think better of it. Easier to rise above the fray than be drawn into it y'know....

[JohnnyV1966]

Out of a sense decency, I have to ask would it make any difference if instead of a butter knife, it was a "dull knife". Even a butter knife can be used to stab rather than slash, right? What happens if a dull knife penetrates the chest cavity or a vital organ? I think anyone would call that a life threatening injury.

Would it make any difference if instead of Autism this 15 year old had been deaf, or otherwise been unable to make a rational decision to stop threatening others?

Beating up on Cops who face what is a legitimate threat and have to resort to force to stop that threat, only serves to undermine the credibility of those claiming the police reacted unjustly.

[shlomo]

Originally Posted by the gman

Doing a job you love and getting decently treated makes a whole lot of difference to a man's outlook. Not to mention having a great wife and a lovely little girl can calm yer ass down in a hurry. There are *times* when I think about being quick draw McGraw on the keyboard but then I pause and think better of it. Easier to rise above the fray than be drawn into it y'know....

Glad to know you're enjoying life, George. I can see it in your posts.

[Beckman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyV1966

Out of a sense decency, I have to ask would it make any difference if instead of a butter knife, it was a "dull knife". Even a butter knife can be used to stab rather than slash, right? What happens if a dull knife penetrates the chest cavity or a vital organ? I think anyone would call that a life threatening injury.

Would it make any difference if instead of Autism this 15 year old had been deaf, or otherwise been unable to make a rational decision to stop threatening others?

Beating up on Cops who face what is a legitimate threat and have to resort to force to stop that threat, only serves to undermine the credibility of those claiming the police reacted unjustly.

That's what I say: If we're going to criticize cops when they behave badly and violate the law, then we should also support them when they legitimately defend themselves from a lethal threat.

You're quite right about how even a dull knife can be dangerous. It isn't clear whether the knife was dull. All we know is that the mother described it as a butter knife, whatever that means. Of course, she could also be mistaken.

Still, we can't expect the officer to have known whether the knife was sharp or dull. Even a small 15yo can do allot of damage with a sharp knife, and any cop worth his salt should know that.

[Douglas S Graham]

Every butter knife I ever saw looked like a dull butter knife. Just sayin'. Cops can't run and dodge a little bit before drilling a young person?? WTF ever. Trigger happy fools.

[JasonB]

I am assuming the parents felt he was a threat since they called.

[the gman]

Originally Posted by Douglas S Graham

Every butter knife I ever saw looked like a dull butter knife. Just sayin'. Cops can't run and dodge a little bit before drilling a young person?? WTF ever. Trigger happy fools.

Did you read anything before posting? The supposedly "dull butter knife" managed to cut through the officer's shirt and his arm and all the "dull butter knives" I have run across won't do that.

Would you let yourself be cut multiple times before you respond with deadly force? Did you bother to read that the parents have called police multiple times to this child and have had them taze him at least twice in order to restrain him? No?

From your remarks, I should say it is your intellect that is dull, rather than the knife in this incident.....

[shlomo]

Originally Posted by the gman

From your remarks, I should say it is your intellect that is dull, rather than the knife in this incident.....

Closer....

[carguym14]

Originally Posted by the gman

How big was this 15 year old? Those folks with mental health issues often possess strength far in excess of their size. What was the exact situation?

To make comments about the 'escalation of force' without knowing the facts of the case is a bit premature.

As Beckman has so graphically illustrated, even a 15 year old with a simple knife can inflict a monstrous wound that may be life changing if not life ending.

You also have to ask what is going on with the parents if the statement that the PD had been there 10 times in less than 2 years to deal with this kid is true? At what point do you wake up and deny him access to weapons?

A butter knife usually doesn't cut through a shirt and skin and I think the mother is in denial and minimizing. Reading the full report into the incident will be very informative and perhaps we should wait for that before rushing to judgment.

When I was growing up we had a kid in the neighborhood with mental images.Never had a problem with him and he was normal the majority of the time.

They lived a couple houses down on the opposite side of the street.One day after school we hear a lot of yelling coming from the house.Kid comes out and tears the front door off the house-tore the screws right out of the jamb.All because his mom wouldn't give him a snack.Never saw him do anything else again,but that image stuck with me-he was probably only 14 or 15 and not overly big.

Enclosed area,I don't care if you have a soup spoon-retard strength is no laughing matter and anything they have good stab or blugeon you to death.Sounds to me,with the info we have,that the cops were in the right.