Webley Mk IV vs Enfield No. 2

StoneyCreekMrMauser · November 02, 2011, 15:16

Just put an Enfield No. 2 Mk. 1* in lay away and am wondering about parts interchangability. Since the Enfield is basically a Webley Mk. IV made slightly simpler, are the parts interchangable or is it one of those British oddballs?

Also, is the .38 S&W Special made from .38 S&W (just longer with more powder and totally not interchangable)? Just so I can make the brass if possible.

TIA!

FUUN063 · November 02, 2011, 15:41

.38 S&W is not the same as shortened .38 S&W Special brass. The bullet on the .38 S&W is larger than the Special.

Leland

sweetwine · November 02, 2011, 15:49

Parts don't interchange, two diffrent designs.

StoneyCreekMrMauser · November 02, 2011, 16:27

Quote:

Originally posted by FUUN063
.38 S&W is not the same as shortened .38 S&W Special brass. The bullet on the .38 S&W is larger than the Special.

Leland

Ah, is it a real .380" bullet instead of a .357"? That will complicate things a bit.

sweetwine - Kinda sux they don't work together despite being so similar. You'd think the Brits would have insured some interchangablility between the two designs. Guess that's what happens when you let a committee design a revolver!

Thanks for the info, guys. As soon as I get it home I'll let you'ns know how it shoots.

richbug · November 02, 2011, 19:17

Quote:

Originally posted by StoneyCreekMrMauser

Ah, is it a real .380" bullet instead of a .357"?

Not .380"... Look for the groove depth to be .360 to .363"

.365" Makarov bullets are the best option I am aware of.

TideWater 41009 · November 02, 2011, 21:28

Most reloading manuals just use .357" bullets. If you are a caster, you can just lube them and leave them unsized; that should put you very close to the proper size.

In days of yore, reloaders would routinely shorten .38 Special brass to 38 S&W length and use that, but now that practice is advised against. The 38 S&W is a few thousandths of an inch larger in diameter than the Special, and the brass can split upon the first firing in 38 S&W chambers.

I have done this before and did not have any trouble, but it is supposed to be unwise these days.

**tdb59** · November 03, 2011, 11:39

This may help some-

http://www.milsurps.com/archive/index.php/t-7803.html

sweetwine · November 03, 2011, 13:13

From what I remember Webly came out with it first then the government didn't want to pay to use it so came out with their version. Still ether one is a nice pistol. Had an Enfield tanker model for awhile well made kind of rough finish but at that time the brits were not to worried about finish. If one is offered at a good price get it, don't worry to much about parts breaking they are tough.

Retired Bum · November 03, 2011, 16:52

If my memory is right the Enfield was made at two very different factories. The first was the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield Lock. The second was at Albion Motors in Scotland. The Albion made revolvers are kind of rough looking compared to those made by Enfield.

The official designation for the round is .380 Inch Small Arms Ammunition Ball. It is the old .38 S&W loaded with a 178 grain FMJ at about 650 fps from the five inch barrel. I had a Webley Mark IV .38 and chrono'd some wartime ammo made by Kynoch. It did 612 fps out of the five inch barrel. I have always wondered how the British military managed to convince themselves that the .38 round would have the same level of "shocking" power as the old 265 gr FMJ .455 Mark II.

And so it goes.

The Retired One

gunsmoke · November 04, 2011, 06:24

.38 S&W brass ia readily available STARLINE is about $13/[er hundred. and a variety of moulds available as well for example

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=130998

unless handloading is out of the question which fromyour questionaboutmaking brass its a possibi;ity. I load for it but I load almost everything.

jdmcomp · November 06, 2011, 09:33

The history of the theft of the Enfield design from Webley is good reading. Webley damages from the Brit govt later. They are not in any way inter-changable for parts. So you need to find a real Webley in 380 to go with it.

38S&W is not hard to find, however, the 200 grain bullet this gun shot is hard to get. After the Hauge convention, the bullet was changed to a full metal jacket of the same shape but some what lighter at 178 grains. The typical 158 will not shoot to the sights without careful loading because of this. In the US I think this load was called the Police load.

As for builders of the Enfield, do not forget the Howard Auto Cultivators models made in AU.

SWOHFAL · November 09, 2011, 22:32

I don't think I'd want the Enfield. The Webley is a much better pistol.

Gazz · November 10, 2011, 07:46

I have both a Webley and an Albion. The "war finish" on the Webley is a bit nicer (as is overall condition in general) than the Albion but I would not consider the Albion to be rough. I remember trying to fix a Webley MkIV once and had a difficult time finding parts. Maybe with the internet it would be easier.

A square 10 · November 10, 2011, 18:51

webley designed the revolver - the british government more or less stole it and produced it at enfeild [and albion & HAK] i would not mix parts if i could help it , but i suspect some interchangeability ,

i have a 'war finish' webley no2 - its a great revolver , i had a late model singapore police as well - also great but not so much as to keep it ,

i have an enfield mkI , enfield mkI* , and mint albion mkI**, - they are all great revolvers as well , i would not ever disparige these ,

i also have a webley no2 in 22cal , also a fine revolver ,

SWOHFAL · November 10, 2011, 20:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Gazz
I have both a Webley and an Albion. The "war finish" on the Webley is a bit nicer (as is overall condition in general) than the Albion but I would not consider the Albion to be rough. I remember trying to fix a Webley MkIV once and had a difficult time finding parts. Maybe with the internet it would be easier.

Some folks up in Canada seem to have a lot of parts, but I'd have to log into eGay to find out who that was in my auction history. Marstar might also.

SWOHFAL · November 10, 2011, 20:31

Quote:

Originally posted by A square 10
webley designed the revolver - the british government more or less stole it and produced it at enfeild [and albion & HAK] i would not mix parts if i could help it , but i suspect some interchangeability ,

i have a 'war finish' webley no2 - its a great revolver , i had a late model singapore police as well - also great but not so much as to keep it ,

i have an enfield mkI , enfield mkI* , and mint albion mkI**, - they are all great revolvers as well , i would not ever disparige these ,

i also have a webley no2 in 22cal , also a fine revolver ,

I like the .22 - how much did it run you? I assume that they are pretty rare.

I'd like to get a 4" MKIV that's post-war and has sights regulated to 146gr ammo to go along with the war-finish 5" one I have.

November 02, 2011, 15:16	#1
StoneyCreekMrMauser Registered FALaholic #: 32185 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Tennessee, the patron state of shootin' stuff Posts: 1,633	Webley Mk IV vs Enfield No. 2 Just put an Enfield No. 2 Mk. 1* in lay away and am wondering about parts interchangability. Since the Enfield is basically a Webley Mk. IV made slightly simpler, are the parts interchangable or is it one of those British oddballs? Also, is the .38 S&W Special made from .38 S&W (just longer with more powder and totally not interchangable)? Just so I can make the brass if possible. TIA!

November 03, 2011, 11:39	#7
tdb59 Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 63177 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: I am here Posts: 2,273	This may help some- http://www.milsurps.com/archive/index.php/t-7803.html __________________ Did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?

November 04, 2011, 06:24	#10
gunsmoke Registered FALaholic #: 14772 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: LOUISIANA Posts: 1,196	.38 S&W brass ia readily available STARLINE is about $13/[er hundred. and a variety of moulds available as well for example http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=130998 unless handloading is out of the question which fromyour questionaboutmaking brass its a possibi;ity. I load for it but I load almost everything. __________________ "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

November 09, 2011, 22:32	#12
SWOHFAL Registered FALaholic #: 34346 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Obamunist-occupied America Posts: 8,441	I don't think I'd want the Enfield. The Webley is a much better pistol. __________________ Man is tormented by no greater anxiety than to find someone quickly to whom he can hand over that great gift of freedom with which the ill-fated creature is born. - Fyodor Dostoevsky

November 10, 2011, 07:46	#13
Gazz Registered FALaholic #: 15159 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NH Posts: 1,937	I have both a Webley and an Albion. The "war finish" on the Webley is a bit nicer (as is overall condition in general) than the Albion but I would not consider the Albion to be rough. I remember trying to fix a Webley MkIV once and had a difficult time finding parts. Maybe with the internet it would be easier. __________________ Gazz

November 02, 2011, 15:41	#2
FUUN063 Computer Illiterate Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 35576 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Converse, Indiana Posts: 4,603	.38 S&W is not the same as shortened .38 S&W Special brass. The bullet on the .38 S&W is larger than the Special. Leland

November 02, 2011, 15:49	#3
sweetwine Registered FALaholic #: 21594 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 263	Parts don't interchange, two diffrent designs.

November 02, 2011, 21:28	#6
TideWater 41009 Registered FALaholic #: 1789 Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 1,364	Most reloading manuals just use .357" bullets. If you are a caster, you can just lube them and leave them unsized; that should put you very close to the proper size. In days of yore, reloaders would routinely shorten .38 Special brass to 38 S&W length and use that, but now that practice is advised against. The 38 S&W is a few thousandths of an inch larger in diameter than the Special, and the brass can split upon the first firing in 38 S&W chambers. I have done this before and did not have any trouble, but it is supposed to be unwise these days.

November 03, 2011, 13:13	#8
sweetwine Registered FALaholic #: 21594 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 263	From what I remember Webly came out with it first then the government didn't want to pay to use it so came out with their version. Still ether one is a nice pistol. Had an Enfield tanker model for awhile well made kind of rough finish but at that time the brits were not to worried about finish. If one is offered at a good price get it, don't worry to much about parts breaking they are tough.

November 03, 2011, 16:52	#9
Retired Bum Registered FALaholic #: 21904 Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,189	If my memory is right the Enfield was made at two very different factories. The first was the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield Lock. The second was at Albion Motors in Scotland. The Albion made revolvers are kind of rough looking compared to those made by Enfield. The official designation for the round is .380 Inch Small Arms Ammunition Ball. It is the old .38 S&W loaded with a 178 grain FMJ at about 650 fps from the five inch barrel. I had a Webley Mark IV .38 and chrono'd some wartime ammo made by Kynoch. It did 612 fps out of the five inch barrel. I have always wondered how the British military managed to convince themselves that the .38 round would have the same level of "shocking" power as the old 265 gr FMJ .455 Mark II. And so it goes. The Retired One

November 06, 2011, 09:33	#11
jdmcomp Registered FALaholic #: 8267 Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 660	The history of the theft of the Enfield design from Webley is good reading. Webley damages from the Brit govt later. They are not in any way inter-changable for parts. So you need to find a real Webley in 380 to go with it. 38S&W is not hard to find, however, the 200 grain bullet this gun shot is hard to get. After the Hauge convention, the bullet was changed to a full metal jacket of the same shape but some what lighter at 178 grains. The typical 158 will not shoot to the sights without careful loading because of this. In the US I think this load was called the Police load. As for builders of the Enfield, do not forget the Howard Auto Cultivators models made in AU.

November 10, 2011, 18:51	#14
A square 10 Registered FALaholic #: 40537 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: minnesota , USA Posts: 333	webley designed the revolver - the british government more or less stole it and produced it at enfeild [and albion & HAK] i would not mix parts if i could help it , but i suspect some interchangeability , i have a 'war finish' webley no2 - its a great revolver , i had a late model singapore police as well - also great but not so much as to keep it , i have an enfield mkI , enfield mkI* , and mint albion mkI**, - they are all great revolvers as well , i would not ever disparige these , i also have a webley no2 in 22cal , also a fine revolver , __________________ http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...Picture001.jpg

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