Have you been listening?

[gates]

Time to have:

3 months cash in the safe

3++ months food for your families

PMs

IF you are starting NOW - go buy rice and beans - and LOTS of spices - NOW!


we are maybe a month or two away from something bad. REALLY bad.

[gunslinger686]

ok i work at a food warehouse as night security,so i have the lock down on food,i need ammo ,here 's the deal pound for pound ammo for food. in SE LA,?

[2barearms]

While panic is never good for the masses, rational self preservation
will never let you down. Anyone expecting the Government to rush in
and bail them out when the wheels come off next time are in for a huge
surprise. My motives for being prepared originally evolved from living in
Hurricane wind zone 3, it has obviously evolved to Defcon 5. No one will
think you are crazy when you have Lights, Air Conditioning, Water, Fuel
and Food. And I left out ammo and dispensers for anyone trying to take it
away.

[TheJokker]

the fear mongers emerge once again from under their moldy rocks...

gates is like the "boy who cried wolf"...

repeat after me: it is only a recession; an economic correction. there is "NO" reason to falsely presume this will be some kind of economic crash.

gates: if two years from now there is no collapse will you promise to "never again" post your know nothing nonsense on this or any other board again?

[cpd109]

Originally posted by TheJokker
the fear mongers emerge once again from under their moldy rocks...

gates is like the "boy who cried wolf"...

repeat after me: it is only a recession; an economic correction. there is "NO" reason to falsely presume this will be some kind of economic crash.

gates: if two years from now there is no collapse will you promise to "never again" post your know nothing nonsense on this or any other board again?

While this is not directed at me, I only use "never" when saying I will never say never. It's too final and as we know as we get older, things ALWAYS change.

[festus]

Originally posted by gates
Time to have:

3 months cash in the safe

3++ months food for your families

PMs

IF you are starting NOW - go buy rice and beans - and LOTS of spices - NOW!


we are maybe a month or two away from something bad. REALLY bad.

I am curious as to what you are referring to in a month or two?
I have had a feeling of doom for years, but what specifically do you think will happen? War, pestilence, cosmic radiation, martial law, food or race riots?

[Eric Bryant]

Alright, folks - Jokker promised that there won't be a crash. He should publish his address so that we can show up on his doorstep if something bad happens. I hear he's really useful in situations like that - he can fix your computer and everything.

Seriously, what's the harm in preparing as suggested by gates? A modest amount of food and cash on-hand is a damn good idea for any number of reasons.

[one hand clapping]

My take is gates is correct for these reasons-

#1 the banksters have been pushing for a one world currency and control, they have things moving in the direction they want- collapse of the nation states economicaly.
#2 the pols and banksters have screwd up enough that they need MORE confusion and panic to take the public focus off their crimes of ther past ten yrs.
[ I know only a small percentage of us are paying attention about alot of their misdeeds and treason. But it will only take one of us to keep the facts alive untill the public is ready for revenge---]
#3 there's no turning back. the banksters started the sequence to do what its doing - too cause enough chaos that the sheep will plead for UN troops to "feed them and make them safe", we allm know what the sheeple will do very soon, you're seeing it with the gang robberies and the london riots yesterday--
#4 the devaluation of the dollar was a plan to rip off the chineese by paying them back with $ worth 32 cents each. They have to colapse it some more to really put it to the chi-coms , oh and did I mention this will wipe out the funds for the middle class to fight back politicaly,as most will be just trying to survive.
#5 lets not forget Iran's nukes and the Izzies pushing the button on them soon.

Theres more, but I think Gates is wise in calling for preparedness, once you see on TV that you need to get something it WAY too late, the zombies will already be there. WHY put yerself in that position when you can prepare now??

God save our republic, and give us the courage to help, each in our own small way.
OHC

[gates]

for petes sakes - call it what you want but fear mongering is not part of my program - I watch this shit CLOSELY and it's not just about the stock market
we have global issues and TPTB have no plan -

[cpd109]

Originally posted by gates
for petes sakes - call it what you want but fear mongering is not part of my program - I watch this shit CLOSELY and it's not just about the stock market
we have global issues and TPTB SEEM TO have no plan -

Fixed it for you. I think they have a plan that we won't want to hear about. But that's just me.

[gates]

Well - if youre in the "gotta crash it to rebuild it" camp then you have a point but it's pretty damn cynical>:->

[one hand clapping]

I'll cop to it , I"M CYNICAL, but then the dow just closed down 600pts

[Skilter]

the food and TP scare mongers a a little ahead of the curve. I am not sayin it will not happen, I am just sayin' it will not happen this summer. But, his advice is sound... It takes time for things to trickle down... and ... this time next year, you might find that wiping your ass may be a lot more expensive that it was in 2011.

Oh... to edit... I have all of the above mentioned.

[gates]

Heh - Jokker if we are still posting 2 years from now I will have long since stopped posting about this - speaking of know nothing you are kinda the poster child eh? go look up the definition of a depression then figure out how much of GDP we have been borrowing and spending every year for the last 12 quarters attempting to replace consumer spending - get back to me on that sparky:-) we have not been in a recession - we are IN a depression... a deflationary credit collapse driven depression - not ME saying that, the MATH says it...

Skil - TP scare monger?:-)

[alfa1]

If America should have a collapse monetarily, social calamity and chaos cannot be far behind, we are no longer "one nation indivisible" we are now of fragmented and diverse purpose and opinion, cultures and colors. We no longer can stand as one.

The current banter relating to racism opined by the sensitive, guilt ridden and progressive personalities, may...very well may, have the opportunity to show the rest of us the very moral mettle you are made of, and perhaps the very ones whom you lament justice for by chance change your minds.

[RG Coburn]

Originally posted by TheJokker


gates is like the "boy who cried wolf"...

How so? Has the nation's debt been reduced? Deficit reduced? Economy improved? Every time he has said,"wolf",there has been a wolf right there.
This depression we're in ain't a dramatic thunderclap,its slow-slide.

[Othello]

I fully expect something on a large scale to be pulled before O is voted out or booted out of office...

Gates - I'm just curious as to what is driving your time line.

On a positive note, silver does not seem to be taking off like gold is, meaning it may stay within the current trading range for a bit longer - a good thing for buyers.

[gates]

Everything coming unwound at once - it was expected though with the exception of the downgrade - they may put it off if they make some announcement that the market believes but at this point we have London burning, the euro zone one announcement from imploding, chaos in our markets, the Chinese pissing and moaning about our debt and spending - and it's ALL on the table NOW -

This is a WORLDWIDE problem and I honestly don't see how they put this genie back in the bottle at this point.

[Othello]

I agree it is unwinding fast, I just wonder if we are in the same see-saw up and down that we have seen in the past.

I thought the crash in '08 could be "the big one" and the markets bounced back some. Granted we did not come back all the way, and it was driven in part by all the printed money injections. In other words, a false "recovery."

I wonder if there will be a watershed moment (such as a market crash) or whipsaw back and forth for a while more... We could play this game for some time...

I do agee completely though, that large scale preparations are in order. The faster, the better!

[TideWater 41009]

Originally posted by gates
Time to have:

3 months cash in the safe

3++ months food for your families

PMs

IF you are starting NOW - go buy rice and beans - and LOTS of spices - NOW!


we are maybe a month or two away from something bad. REALLY bad.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?

[gates]

? frequency?

[gates]

Othello - the problem is this isn't 2008 - the bank damage has been taken on by the sovereigns and the sovereigns are broke - BB has rates at zero and only his balance sheet as a weapon at this point - QE2 was, in hindsight, a failure - sure it pumped asset prices but we have seen a huge portion of that come off in the last 10 trading days - TRILLIONS down the shitter - I'm sure theres at least one good pump left in this market but it is becoming obvious that the mkt is FINALLY paying attention to fundamentals after ignoring them for the last 3 years -

[JR in the NW]

Originally posted by gates
? frequency?

Dan Rather

[TheJokker]

the "crash" of the last couple days has less to do with the united states and more to do with absolute panic in europe. we are heading into a deflationary cycle. gold and silver was up yesterday (and t-bills) while energy, food and commodity prices in general were down. just as we faced years of inflation we will be facing years of deflation.

this does not have to be all bad. a sharp drop is dangerous but if prices for food and energy fall along with wages than there may be little effect on one's standard of living. if deflation undoes all the inflation we may find ourselves with a 80's or 70's standard of living relative to the rest of the world. if goods and wages fall than we will be more competitive with the rest of the world. it may become economical to manufacture goods in america again.

this is just an economic correction on a major scale. america has grown obese and is being forced to "get in shape". no pain; no gain. it is going to be hard going for a while but it is not impossible and america is "not" going to collapse in ruins around us.

NEWS FLASH: there is a difference between the democrats and the republicans. too many people in the 2007 election (gates and juanni included) made poor decisions. instead of voting for the better man people were concerned with not voting for the lesser of two evils and now we have to face the consequences of life with the greater evil. while there is a little bit of scum-bag in every politician there are people with traditional solutions to our nation’s problems. there are people willing to take the difficult stance that will rip the fat off of government and make america business friendly again.

all of this "needs" to happen if we are going to make things better for ourselves and our children. prices falling is a good thing if managed properly. this is not the start of a collapse; it is the beginning of the rebuilding of america. if we make the right choices we may actually find ourselves with "hope and change" in 5 or 10 years and it won't be obama's nonsense.

[shlomo]

I will stand by for the hoots and jeers on the above without comment, except to say that I can't wait for 79 cent beef and 50 cent gas to return. I'm gonna start stuffin' the mattress right now.

[L Haney]

Originally posted by gates


This is a WORLDWIDE problem and I honestly don't see how they put this genie back in the bottle at this point.

Another congressional investigation into a pro sport? We've used that successfully in the past.

Economics are sort of complicated and dry, not much public interest there, but them steroids in baseball filled 4 channels of 24 hour news cycles for months.

[rowjimmy]

There will be a comment from the Fed. There will be a temporary soothing of the markets. The can will be kicked. When the market tanks again in October and the next downgrade comes, there will be problems, but it will be winter, and no one riots in the winter. When we lose reserve currency status, we may go Weimar, and that may be a problem.

Either that, or we will see the long slow slide I have said about, no great watershed moment, just the perpetual decline of our standard of living. But maybe I'm just an opitmist.

[one hand clapping]

My sense is that lots of the real fixes are above the paygrade of those task with implementing said fixes. Lots of selfish,weak "leaders" out there, I really don't think most have the "stuff "necessary to pull the whole thing back together.
They were elevated to their positions for many reasons, but in the states, and europe, one usually doesn't make it far up the political ladder unless you sell out, they MUST have something on you before you get to pass GO and collect yer two million [ inflation], and a bed in the white house, or a seat in the senate.

"THEY" are the ones who have both created the problem and could fix it , the illuminati / one world gov folks.
I think this is constructive destruction [in their minds] / construction. Destroy the world we grew up with and reform it in their image.

They will fail, but are making one hell of a mess.
So my short answer - we are leaderless and adrift, in my book that means time to stock up and dig in.

One hand clapping.
I'd like to thank gates for keeping the light shinning on this . I hope folks have been paying attention and have taken ACTION to get in front of the wave.

OHC

[Deltaten]

I dunno shite.....BUT......
Last nite's news listed all the drops across the globe in percentages, rather than the usual points. I believe this is to re-define the verbiage and make it more palatable.
"Six percent" doesn't sound near as bad as "720 points", does it? Mebbe they're right and language manipulation IS the way to go. A 6% drop isn't all that bad...right? Just makes me wonder WTF they'll do when it hits 20%, 30% or more??

[carguym14]

Originally posted by Deltaten
I dunno shite.....BUT......
Last nite's news listed all the drops across the globe in percentages, rather than the usual points. I believe this is to re-define the verbiage and make it more palatable.
"Six percent" doesn't sound near as bad as "720 points", does it? Mebbe they're right and language manipulation IS the way to go. A 6% drop isn't all that bad...right? Just makes me wonder WTF they'll do when it hits 20%, 30% or more??

That would be double plus ungood.

Reminds me of 1984 more and more............

[carguym14]

Originally posted by gates
Time to have:

3 months cash in the safe

3++ months food for your families

PMs

IF you are starting NOW - go buy rice and beans - and LOTS of spices - NOW!


we are maybe a month or two away from something bad. REALLY bad.

That's good advice all the time,IMO.

It's easy to stock up on food and keep it rotated-expirations are always aways out on most food.

As for TP,soap,shampoo,laundry detergent,etc..why not stock up?I haven't bought any in years,and at my current usage,will probably never need more.

It's like money in the bank when you buy it cheap and stack it deep.

Cash is always good to have around as well-the amount of people that carry/have no cash amazes me.

Stay safe.

[Thomas99]

Originally posted by TheJokker

the fear mongers emerge once again from under their moldy rocks...

gates is like the "boy who cried wolf"...

Just a reminder, the boy who cried wolf was correct in the end.

[JohnnyV1966]

Originally posted by Deltaten
I dunno shite.....BUT......
Last nite's news listed all the drops across the globe in percentages, rather than the usual points. I believe this is to re-define the verbiage and make it more palatable.
"Six percent" doesn't sound near as bad as "720 points", does it? Mebbe they're right and language manipulation IS the way to go. A 6% drop isn't all that bad...right? Just makes me wonder WTF they'll do when it hits 20%, 30% or more??

I think the Joker has been pulling a fast one on the ones being gullible enough to believe him and others who in the immediate future who are myopic and possibly i immune to the economic downturn.

Everyone should take a good look at the chart leading to 1929 and that of today as one will find similar trends.

Problem is that the Joker and his ilk have been damaging our National Security through a policies of Off Shoring and De-Industrialization. Clearly these Policies have helped to generate synergistic economic profits of Multi-National Corporations for Institutional Investors and Sharholders, while creating greater dependence on developing nations, for finished goods, who have their own aspiratons as we decline economically speaking.

Very similar to the Fall of Rome. Should we continue on this path we will decline just as Rome did. Perhaps we may even be threatened or invaded by the "neo-barbarians" as they will have physical custody of Industrial Assets while our industry will be minimal and those with the skills to regenerate our Industrial strength will not exist in sufficient quantity to rebound.

[RG Coburn]

Deflationary? So the cost of healthcare and insurance will go down? A new pickup will drop to 80's levels?

[Bawana jim]

I had worked a long night shift and got home just as the plane flew into the second tower on 911. I saw it happen but I knew America was going to stand up to these terrorist and kick their asses.

Today we have new terrorist and they are our government. They are holding our economy hostage and real terror and panic is sweeping the nation. How could it ever be in America that investment advice is stock up with food, guns and ammo? How did these bastards do this?

Our politicions shouldn't be aloud to walk the streets without somebody screaming at them. This ain't the way I want to live or for my family to live. Look at all the damage these guys have done, it's criminal negligence. No I ain't fugging hysterical but I am damn fugging pissed off. It ain't the system but the corruption of those who run it.

jim

[gates]

Thomas - had .gov and the Fed not changed the GD rules in the middle of the game there would have been no "crying" the fukin WOLF would have shown up as expected:-) - as it is, his arrival has only been delayed - not cancelled.

[Topbanana]

411Gates, it's time too cool it again.

Yes, the world is going to shit rather quickly. Most of us read the news...

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by JohnnyV1966

Problem is that the Joker and his ilk have been damaging our National Security through a policies of Off Shoring and De-Industrialization. Clearly these Policies have helped to generate synergistic economic profits of Multi-National Corporations for Institutional Investors and Sharholders, while creating greater dependence on developing nations, for finished goods, who have their own aspiratons as we decline economically speaking.

pray tell how have you arrived at this conclusion? my perspective is centered on policies that will reverse this very phenomena. why have corporations left america and moved offshore? high corporate taxes and regulation, high wages, scapegoating those corporations and bankers who have chosen to remain in america?

are you one of those who have accepted a collapse and surrender passively to a decline in your life?

might you be one who believes america can regain our competitive edge by returning to our traditional roots and adapting to the changing global economic environment?

while gates and other contractors were making money over-building in the 1990's and 2000's i was a struggling computer/network technician suffering the effects of offshoring. i adapted by becoming self-employed but offshoring is not an intellectual concept to me: i experienced the effects.

have you thought about how offshoring can be reversed? have you considered a workable plan? if so please share...

[Thomas99]

Originally posted by gates
Thomas - had .gov and the Fed not changed the GD rules in the middle of the game there would have been no "crying" the fukin WOLF would have shown up as expected:-) - as it is, his arrival has only been delayed - not cancelled.

Yeah, I agree with you. My point was that Jokker's comment was ironically accurate as in the story the last time the boy cried wolf, there really was a wolf and it ate all the sheep. After two successful hail mary's in a row, the odds of more keep going down.

Whats worse is that in this case, the fed has been feeding the wolf and its only getting bigger and hungrier.

Deflationary? So the cost of healthcare and insurance will go down? A new pickup will drop to 80's levels?

I will believe that only when I see it.

the "crash" of the last couple days has less to do with the united states and more to do with absolute panic in europe.

Just wondering of there is a EuroJokker out there making the same argument. I don't disagree on the panic in Europe, but there is plenty of US based causes involved.

[carguym14]

Originally posted by TheJokker
pray tell how have you arrived at this conclusion? my perspective is centered on policies that will reverse this very phenomena. why have corporations left america and moved offshore? high corporate taxes and regulation, high wages, scapegoating those corporations and bankers who have chosen to remain in america?

are you one of those who have accepted a collapse and surrender passively to a decline in your life?

might you be one who believes america can regain our competitive edge by returning to our traditional roots and adapting to the changing global economic environment?

while gates and other contractors were making money over-building in the 1990's and 2000's i was a struggling computer/network technician suffering the effects of offshoring. i adapted by becoming self-employed but offshoring is not an intellectual concept to me: i experienced the effects.

have you thought about how offshoring can be reversed? have you considered a workable plan? if so please share...

Reversed?Too late.

An ounce of prevention is worthy a pound of cure-this should have been stopped years ago.Instead,we got years of explosive growth with no thought to the future.

Both democrats and republicans share the blame.With all the rules and reguloations here,let alone the taxes and labor costs,it would be a miracle if we could bring manufacturing back here on a scale we used to have.Factor in technology that is making humans needed less and we aren't going to get back there.

Nope,just like fixing the barn door after the horse is gone,we were foolish and short sighted and are paying the price now.............

[JohnnyV1966]

Through the Establishment of Tariffs

Holding current and former CEOs and Top Management accountable for Economic Treason if they are US Citizens. When the bottom falls out of our Economy...you can bet a new crop of Politicians may push for their prosecution after sacrificing our economy on the alter of Globalism.

Joker your idea of competitiveness is to bring everyone down to a Third World Standard of Living with Top Management getting the Lions Share of the Economic Profit. You and many like you have been pushing the lowering of Tariffs and other Trade barriers for years.

American Top MGT should not get thousands times the wage of the bottom of the corporate ladder, when Top Management in almost all parts of the world work at 35-40 times what the person at the lowest pay range of their corporate ladder. In 1965 this ratio of compensation was the norm for Top Management. No one should be allowed to sell out their fellow citizens for a few dollars more, without the fear of our Justice System intervening.

Further your idea of the world we should live in is one of a Global Third World where those living in the US went from a Shining city on a hill to a dilapidated, disease ridden village of decay, public corruption and the abuse of power.

Originally posted by TheJokker


pray tell how have you arrived at this conclusion? my perspective is centered on policies that will reverse this very phenomena. why have corporations left america and moved offshore? high corporate taxes and regulation, high wages, scapegoating those corporations and bankers who have chosen to remain in america?

are you one of those who have accepted a collapse and surrender passively to a decline in your life?

might you be one who believes america can regain our competitive edge by returning to our traditional roots and adapting to the changing global economic environment?

while gates and other contractors were making money over-building in the 1990's and 2000's i was a struggling computer/network technician suffering the effects of offshoring. i adapted by becoming self-employed but offshoring is not an intellectual concept to me: i experienced the effects.

have you thought about how offshoring can be reversed? have you considered a workable plan? if so please share...

[JeffJ]

I am afraid our reckless financial system is coming down around us. the BS is about to hit the road...be prepared or perish....

[TheJokker]

Originally posted by JohnnyV1966
Through the Establishment of Tariffs
Joker your idea of competitiveness is to bring everyone down to a Third World Standard of Living with Top Management getting the Lions Share of the Economic Profit. You and many like you have been pushing the lowering of Tariffs and other Trade barriers for years.

no...

were americans a third world nation in 1960? 1970? 1980? if prices fall and wages fall with it how can there be a decline in the standard of living? if electric prices fall, if food prices fall, if rent falls, if gas prices fall, if prices fall across the board and your wages fall by an equal percentage how can you standard of living be significantly different?

how about to a link where i have advocated the lowering of tariffs and other trade barriers? you could go through every post ever posted on this or any other message board in the world and you will never find anything remotely resembling my support for globalization. you haven't the faintest idea what i have been talking about.

if prices and wages fall, if government is reduced to a level supported by our economy, america can compete with any nation. we can return to making our own cars, clothes and goods. were you watching commodity prices on monday? oil fell. gasoline fell, copper fell, corn fell, cotton fell, pork bellies fell, everything fell. everything fell!

if prices fall 20% across the board and wages fall 20% across the board how are you affected negatively? prices for goods produced in china, india, and brazil may rise and that will hurt to the extent that we have become dependent on those cheap goods but that will mean the beginning of a revival in american manufacturing.

three and a half years ago europe was booming, china was booming, the dollar was falling, gas prices were rising and everybody "here" thought this was the beginning of the end.

instead i predicted the euro bubble would burst, oil prices would fall concurrently, europe would suffer far worse than america while china would suffer inflation and possibly civil disorder all the while america would experience an extended period of falling prices and wages resulting in a return in american manufacturing. thats a bit too complicated to be more than a lucky guess. do you clowns reject it because it displays faith in the american spirit and has a happy ending? losers find a way to lose and winners find a way to win...

[juanni]

Originally posted by TheJokker


instead i predicted the euro bubble would burst, oil prices would fall concurrently, europe would suffer far worse than america while china would suffer inflation and possibly civil disorder all the while america would experience an extended period of falling prices and wages resulting in a return in american manufacturing. thats a bit too complicated to be more than a lucky guess. do you clowns reject it because it displays faith in the american spirit and has a happy ending? losers find a way to lose and winners find a way to win...

The worldwide boom occurred from cheap, easy money printed by all central banks and handed out willy nilly.

Now we are in bust mode, compounded by govts OK of fraudulent accounting, no reserves in banking, corrupt tax codes, crony insider deals, opaque markets and massive govt spending worldwide.

Until the bad debt is wrung out of the system with MASSIVE bankruptcies, until govts worldwide slash spending, until central bankers are put on a very short leash or put out of business and until there is a fair, uniform and predicable tax system and transparent markets with reality based accounting there will be no real lasting recovery.

Unfortunately, BOTH parties including your beloved repubs are doing all they can to prevent the debt to be wrung out let alone implementing any of the other changes required.



............juanni

[gates]

yep

[Enquiring Minds]

Originally posted by gates
...
IF you are starting NOW - go buy rice and beans - and LOTS of spices - NOW!


we are maybe a month or two away from something bad. REALLY bad.

Umm, didn't you (and KD) say the same thing about 30 months ago, i.e. SP500 = "666" day?

While Jokker does conveniently ignore massive corruption and cronyism, he's closer to how things really play out than are the years-of-dry-goods-in-da-basement crowd.

[carguym14]

Originally posted by Enquiring Minds


Umm, didn't you (and KD) say the same thing about 30 months ago, i.e. SP500 = "666" day?

While Jokker does conveniently ignore massive corruption and cronyism, he's closer to how things really play out than are the years-of-dry-goods-in-da-basement crowd.

Pay no mind to gates.

He probably thinks 2+2=4 and that we are at war with Eastasia............

[gates]

timing was indeed off - ultimate outcome - pretty much assured unless you can figure out how we replace 12% of GDP that is now being deficit spent by .gov.

You been watching europe? they havn't even eaten their peas yet and the people are going nuts - wait until austerity is REALLY imposed... we have the same problems.

[rowjimmy]

Originally posted by carguym14




Pay no mind to gates.

He probably thinks 2+2=4 and that we are at war with Eastasia............

Oceania is at war with Eurasia, we have always been at war with Eurasia.

Me thinks someone needs to visit the Ministry of Love...

[JohnnyV1966]

Originally posted by TheJokker

no...

were americans a third world nation in 1960? 1970? 1980? if prices fall and wages fall with it how can there be a decline in the standard of living? if electric prices fall, if food prices fall, if rent falls, if gas prices fall, if prices fall across the board and your wages fall by an equal percentage how can you standard of living be significantly different?

.

So what are you saying? Prices and wages during that period of time were rising in the United States.

Other than for the re establishment of Tariffs on Motorcyles (Reagan) to protect and ensure Harley Davidsons continued existence....


We had substantial Trade barriers in the form of Tariffs and other non tariff barriers, until the dawn of the "Free Trade" era in late Seventies. Those barriers were dismantled piecemeal to destroy the Unions, increase the profits of Multi National Corporations. It also had the effect destroying the Industrial base of the US, along with the skills to produce great profits.

The conservatives cried about new Envrionmental Regulations as they had to absorb the costs of environmental clean-up as the Liberals ushered in numerous Environmental regulations recognizing the full costs of without compensatory Tariffs. This gave substantial advantage to nations without any Environment regulations, further favoring production in the Developing World while putting this nation at great disadvantage.

I think its rather amusing that one of the Major Riot Centers in the UK is Manchester, England. That was once a thriving a industrial center much like many places in our own Industrial heartland. Most likely the rioters are poor whose grandparents had things much better. Further who will pay for their welfare benefits (anesthetic) with the Tax base gone? Who gave away the store? The same old English upper crust who could have fed the Irish, but chose to sell the minimal marginal crop on the market, allowing those who planted the crops to starve?

It is amazing how many are willing to give away the store. Endure economic decline and then attempt to place blame on those not responsible for it.

Jokker, I think you muddle the issue. Yes, there will be decline and everyone will be affected. Some will be better off in the short term than others. We will have lost ground compared to where we should be and now have competitors who bid up what we crave. Once head and shoulders above the rest how did we decline and who became our new competitors and threats? Why?