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Old May 24, 2011, 09:37   #1
SmokeEater2
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Angry Ron Paul's Immigration Flip-Flop

Ron Paul used to be tough on illegal immigration but I haven't heard either he or his supporters mention the issue recently. A quick search explained it. He's now done a 180 degree turn around from his statements on the subject in years past.

As much as some people seem to want to deify Ron Paul, He's still not much different from any other Republicrat.


http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...n-d-williamson


In his new book, Liberty Defined, Paul instead praises the “superior” work ethic of immigrants and cites anti-Hispanic prejudice as the source of immigration hawks’ energy, giving fits to former fans such as Tom Tancredo. His objections to multiculturalism seem to be waning.

What’s got into Ron Paul? The best guess is: Gary Johnson.

Johnson, a former governor of New Mexico, has joined the Republican primary race, too, and he’s out to out-libertarian the libertarians’ poster boy.

Johnson is not claiming credit for Representative Paul’s new outlook. “Did he change his views?” he asks cooly. “Well, the thing about politics is that you end up changing the world a little bit when others recognize that what you’re saying is a good thing.”

In effect, Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are in a race to the left in a Republican party — and a country — that is in an energetically restrictionist mood, especially when it comes to illegal immigrants. A Southwest Voter Research Institute poll found that 69 percent of Hispanics in Texas favor deploying additional federal forces to secure the border, and more than half support a national identification card; Pew found Democratic voters nearly evenly split on Arizona’s immigration reforms.



http://teapartywest.com/?p=2143

May 23, 2011 by BT

Tom Tancredo on WorldNetDaily quotes VDARE.com on Ron Paul’s immigration stance, as shown by Paul’s latest book Liberty Defined.

Ron Paul’s amnesty with an asterisk
Tom Tancredo

I served with Ron Paul in Congress for 10 years. He was a member of my Immigration Reform Caucus, and I consider him a friend. We didn’t see eye to eye on every issue, but he was generally an ally in the fight against illegal immigration. Unfortunately, it appears that Paul’s views on immigration have now shifted into the pro-amnesty camp.

Last week, Rep. Paul released his latest book, “Liberty Defined: 50 Essential Issues That Affect Our Freedom.” One of those 50 issues is immigration, and Paul gives a more detailed explanation of his views in the book than I have ever seen before.

The result is not pretty. Ron Paul’s book misrepresents the views of immigration-control advocates and then insults their motivations. He insinuates that patriotic Americans who oppose mass immigration are lazy and motivated by race. He says that immigrants “have a work ethic superior to many of our own citizens who have grown dependent on welfare and unemployment benefits.

This anger may reflect embarrassment as much as anything.” He also claims, “It’s hard to hide the fact that resentment toward a Hispanic immigrant is more common than toward a European illegal immigrant.”

The immigration website VDARE.com refutes both of these assertions.

They note that 77 percent of illegal aliens are Hispanic, while less than 5 percent of illegal and 10 percent of legal immigrants are European – so the idea that we are treating Europeans specially is specious.

VDARE also points to a Center for Immigration Studies report that shows immigrants are much more likely to be on welfare than native-born American citizens.

In addition to insulting the motives of the critics of uncontrolled immigration, he argues against policies that we don’t support. According to Paul, immigration-control advocates want to “use the U.S. Army, round them up, ship them home.” In my decades fighting this battle, I have not once heard anyone advocate using the military for deportations.

Paul says deporting illegal immigrants will require “splitting up families and deporting some who have lived here for decades.” Of course, there is nothing keeping the children of illegal immigrants from going home for their parents. If we got rid of birthright citizenship, which Paul says he supports, that would not be an issue to begin with.

As for the illegals here for decades, why should we reward them for breaking the law longer than others? Some crimes have a statute of limitation, but unlawful entry into our country does not.

According to Paul, deporting such people would be “incompatible with human rights.” That is an off argument for any true libertarian to make, since the protection of true human rights begins with the U.S. Constitution and our ability to enforce the rule of law.

The truth is that we do not need to deport all illegal aliens to make them go home. If we simply prevent employers from hiring illegal aliens by using E-Verify and step up interior enforcement as Arizona, Oklahoma and other states have done, most illegal aliens will go home on their own.

Paul comes out against both these policies. He not only opposes the E-Verify program, he even comes out against all laws that prohibit employers from hiring illegal aliens. To make his point even more dramatic, he absurdly calls the idea of fining employers for hiring illegal aliens “involuntary servitude.”

Paul comes out against Arizona’s popular SB 1070 law using absurd arguments of the type normally heard only from America-hating leftists: “Arizona-type immigration legislation can turn out to be harmful. Being able to stop any American citizen under the vague charge of ‘suspicion’ is dangerous even more so in the age of secret prisons and a stated position of assassinating American citizens if deemed a ‘threat,’ without charges ever being made.”

I am still scratching my head trying to figure out what supposed secret prisons and political assassinations have to do with enforcing our immigration laws. The Arizona law’s definition of “reasonable suspicion” is the same standard that applies for federal immigration officials and local law enforcement for non-immigration violations, so the law does not expand police powers.

So if we can’t enforce the law, what does Paul want to do with the 12 million illegal aliens here in this country? While he says he opposes amnesty, he argues, “Maybe a ‘green card’ with an asterisk could be issued.” This “asterisk” would deny them welfare and not grant them immediate “automatic citizenship.” Both these qualifications are meaningless because every amnesty proposal makes illegal aliens jump through some symbolic hoops before they get amnesty.

I have no idea why he has changed his position on illegal immigration, but one thing is clear: Asterisk or not, Ron Paul now supports amnesty
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Old May 24, 2011, 10:16   #2
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Them Paulbots is gonna getcha thar Smoke!
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Old May 24, 2011, 10:33   #3
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Re: Ron Paul's Immigration Flip-Flop

Quote:
Originally posted by SmokeEater2
Ron Paul used to be tough on illegal immigration but I haven't heard either he or his supporters mention the issue recently. A quick search explained it. He's now done a 180 degree turn around from his statements on the subject in years past.

As much as some people seem to want to deify Ron Paul, He's still not much different from any other Republicrat.


http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...n-d-williamson


In his new book, Liberty Defined, Paul instead praises the “superior” work ethic of immigrants and cites anti-Hispanic prejudice as the source of immigration hawks’ energy, giving fits to former fans such as Tom Tancredo. His objections to multiculturalism seem to be waning.

What’s got into Ron Paul? The best guess is: Gary Johnson.

Johnson, a former governor of New Mexico, has joined the Republican primary race, too, and he’s out to out-libertarian the libertarians’ poster boy.

Johnson is not claiming credit for Representative Paul’s new outlook. “Did he change his views?” he asks cooly. “Well, the thing about politics is that you end up changing the world a little bit when others recognize that what you’re saying is a good thing.”

In effect, Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are in a race to the left in a Republican party — and a country — that is in an energetically restrictionist mood, especially when it comes to illegal immigrants. A Southwest Voter Research Institute poll found that 69 percent of Hispanics in Texas favor deploying additional federal forces to secure the border, and more than half support a national identification card; Pew found Democratic voters nearly evenly split on Arizona’s immigration reforms.



http://teapartywest.com/?p=2143

May 23, 2011 by BT

Tom Tancredo on WorldNetDaily quotes VDARE.com on Ron Paul’s immigration stance, as shown by Paul’s latest book Liberty Defined.

Ron Paul’s amnesty with an asterisk
Tom Tancredo

I served with Ron Paul in Congress for 10 years. He was a member of my Immigration Reform Caucus, and I consider him a friend. We didn’t see eye to eye on every issue, but he was generally an ally in the fight against illegal immigration. Unfortunately, it appears that Paul’s views on immigration have now shifted into the pro-amnesty camp.

Last week, Rep. Paul released his latest book, “Liberty Defined: 50 Essential Issues That Affect Our Freedom.” One of those 50 issues is immigration, and Paul gives a more detailed explanation of his views in the book than I have ever seen before.

The result is not pretty. Ron Paul’s book misrepresents the views of immigration-control advocates and then insults their motivations. He insinuates that patriotic Americans who oppose mass immigration are lazy and motivated by race. He says that immigrants “have a work ethic superior to many of our own citizens who have grown dependent on welfare and unemployment benefits.

This anger may reflect embarrassment as much as anything.” He also claims, “It’s hard to hide the fact that resentment toward a Hispanic immigrant is more common than toward a European illegal immigrant.”

The immigration website VDARE.com refutes both of these assertions.

They note that 77 percent of illegal aliens are Hispanic, while less than 5 percent of illegal and 10 percent of legal immigrants are European – so the idea that we are treating Europeans specially is specious.

VDARE also points to a Center for Immigration Studies report that shows immigrants are much more likely to be on welfare than native-born American citizens.

In addition to insulting the motives of the critics of uncontrolled immigration, he argues against policies that we don’t support. According to Paul, immigration-control advocates want to “use the U.S. Army, round them up, ship them home.” In my decades fighting this battle, I have not once heard anyone advocate using the military for deportations.

Paul says deporting illegal immigrants will require “splitting up families and deporting some who have lived here for decades.” Of course, there is nothing keeping the children of illegal immigrants from going home for their parents. If we got rid of birthright citizenship, which Paul says he supports, that would not be an issue to begin with.

As for the illegals here for decades, why should we reward them for breaking the law longer than others? Some crimes have a statute of limitation, but unlawful entry into our country does not.

According to Paul, deporting such people would be “incompatible with human rights.” That is an off argument for any true libertarian to make, since the protection of true human rights begins with the U.S. Constitution and our ability to enforce the rule of law.

The truth is that we do not need to deport all illegal aliens to make them go home. If we simply prevent employers from hiring illegal aliens by using E-Verify and step up interior enforcement as Arizona, Oklahoma and other states have done, most illegal aliens will go home on their own.

Paul comes out against both these policies. He not only opposes the E-Verify program, he even comes out against all laws that prohibit employers from hiring illegal aliens. To make his point even more dramatic, he absurdly calls the idea of fining employers for hiring illegal aliens “involuntary servitude.”

Paul comes out against Arizona’s popular SB 1070 law using absurd arguments of the type normally heard only from America-hating leftists: “Arizona-type immigration legislation can turn out to be harmful. Being able to stop any American citizen under the vague charge of ‘suspicion’ is dangerous even more so in the age of secret prisons and a stated position of assassinating American citizens if deemed a ‘threat,’ without charges ever being made.”

I am still scratching my head trying to figure out what supposed secret prisons and political assassinations have to do with enforcing our immigration laws. The Arizona law’s definition of “reasonable suspicion” is the same standard that applies for federal immigration officials and local law enforcement for non-immigration violations, so the law does not expand police powers.

So if we can’t enforce the law, what does Paul want to do with the 12 million illegal aliens here in this country? While he says he opposes amnesty, he argues, “Maybe a ‘green card’ with an asterisk could be issued.” This “asterisk” would deny them welfare and not grant them immediate “automatic citizenship.” Both these qualifications are meaningless because every amnesty proposal makes illegal aliens jump through some symbolic hoops before they get amnesty.

I have no idea why he has changed his position on illegal immigration, but one thing is clear: Asterisk or not, Ron Paul now supports amnesty
RP has said Immigrants are beneficial. Not illegal ones. Please show a direct quote and a link to him stating that illegal aliens should stay.

What he said was that when we fix the problems...they will go away on their own because they won't have a tit to suck on here any more.

PLEASE...Don't quote other sources and claim they are RP. Read the book yourself....
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Old May 24, 2011, 12:07   #4
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Re: Re: Ron Paul's Immigration Flip-Flop

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Originally posted by Pistolwiz


PLEASE...Don't quote other sources and claim they are RP. Read the book yourself....
Exactly, why would anyone want to read and believe filtered/distorted info when you could ACTUALLY read what Paul's positions are and have been.

It isn't like they are written in some obscure ancient language.



.............juanni
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Old May 24, 2011, 12:11   #5
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Re: Ron Paul's Immigration Flip-Flop

Quote:
Originally posted by SmokeEater2
Ron Paul used to be tough on illegal immigration but I haven't heard either he or his supporters mention the issue recently. A quick search explained it. He's now done a 180 degree turn around from his statements on the subject in years past.
Bullsh*t.
This was his position during the 08 elections.
Ron Paul’s six point plan puts a stop to illegal immigration:

1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
2. Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
3. No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
4. No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
5. End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
6. Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.


Now show us how he has flipped 180 degrees.



..............juanni
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Old May 24, 2011, 15:01   #6
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Re: Re: Ron Paul's Immigration Flip-Flop

Quote:
Originally posted by juanni


Bullsh*t.
This was his position during the 08 elections.
Ron Paul’s six point plan puts a stop to illegal immigration:

1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
2. Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
3. No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
4. No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
5. End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
6. Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.


Now show us how he has flipped 180 degrees.



..............juanni
Ya gotta remember Juanni.... They prefer the sweet and delicious bricks of lies...rather than one tiny bitter grain of truth. Figures.
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"If we had as many misconceptions about the FN FAL as we do about the constitution. The body count from accidents would be much, much higher around here."
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Old May 24, 2011, 15:05   #7
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Someone says Ron Paul did something bad! Who should I throw my support to????????

I would like to offer that he has changed virtually NONE of his stances his whole political life.

I have absolutely read nothing about him in really two years and already can tell you his current platform and promises.

Can you do that for anyone else???
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Old May 24, 2011, 15:31   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Topbanana
Someone says Ron Paul did something bad! Who should I throw my support to????????

I would like to offer that he has changed virtually NONE of his stances his whole political life.

I have absolutely read nothing about him in really two years and already can tell you his current platform and promises.

Can you do that for anyone else???
Needless to say if his platform and stand on issues have not changed in the last two years and his presidential national support was at the bottom of the Republician totem pole in 2008, what advantage will he have in 2012?
Paul spins the correct issues but offers few plans to resolve them.

You won't hear many complete platforms from the Republician field until the start of the primaries and from that point to the convention. There are a couple of reasons for this:
The political tide may change with the voters as future events unfold which may have an impact on the election.
Some candidates who do not currently hold public office are not privy to some internal ecomonic, domestic & international issues or even national security issues. Usually the top tier of candidates are briefed on this type of information by the government as some point to assist in their campaigns.
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Old May 24, 2011, 15:51   #9
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Did it ever occur to to you Dak that there is a proper role of gov't and that it actually DOES not change with much of any event nationally or globally?

Dr. Paul understands this and this is only reason I support him.
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Old May 24, 2011, 15:53   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by DakTo
Usually the top tier of candidates are briefed on this type of information by the government as some point to assist in their campaigns.
Please elaborate on this.
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Old May 24, 2011, 17:53   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Topbanana
Did it ever occur to to you Dak that there is a proper role of gov't and that it actually DOES not change with much of any event nationally or globally?

Dr. Paul understands this and this is only reason I support him.
Paul may understand a lot of things but he is a small fish in a big pond, and has not been the darling of the MSM during the heat of the campaign. I remember '08 during some of the GOP debates when the host of the debates practically ignored Paul and targeted their "meaty" issues to the top tier candidates. I thought it unfair at the time, but the MSM has an agenda to seemingly promote the most popular candidates in order to make news.

I'm sure Ron Paul appriciates your loyalty and support.
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Old May 24, 2011, 17:56   #12
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Please elaborate on this.
The bulk of the national security briefings usually are offered to the party nominee, otherwise the presidential debates may be one sided.
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Old May 24, 2011, 18:17   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by DakTo


Paul may understand a lot of things but he is a small fish in a big pond, and has not been the darling of the MSM during the heat of the campaign. I remember '08 during some of the GOP debates when the host of the debates practically ignored Paul and targeted their "meaty" issues to the top tier candidates. I thought it unfair at the time, but the MSM has an agenda to seemingly promote the most popular candidates in order to make news.
The MSM supports and is funded by the Status Quo of Big Govt, Big Spending, perpetual wars, Wall St, the FED, Crony Capitalists and OPEN BORDERS, AMNESTY,,, etc`

All of the things Ron Paul opposes with small govt, free market capitalism and not meddling in the foreign affairs of others.

The MSM wasn't being "unfair" it was intentionally minimalizing Paul and his positions because he is a threat to those entrenched interests.



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Old May 25, 2011, 08:19   #14
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Re: Re: Ron Paul's Immigration Flip-Flop

Quote:
Originally posted by juanni


Bullsh*t.
This was his position during the 08 elections.
Ron Paul’s six point plan puts a stop to illegal immigration:

1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
2. Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
3. No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
4. No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
5. End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
6. Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.


Now show us how he has flipped 180 degrees.



..............juanni

Still waiting.........


............juanni
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Old May 25, 2011, 10:55   #15
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Them Paulbots is gonna getcha thar Smoke!

Told you so!
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Old May 26, 2011, 01:58   #16
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Originally posted by Bigger_Is_Better
"Them Paulbots is gonna getcha thar Smoke!"

2 cups of conjecture mixed with 1 cup of parroting of MSM lackeys. With a pinch of obfuscation for spice.

Makes for great humble pie.

It's easy to pick apart lies.... Especially when the object of the lies has been rock solid on their convictions their entire life.

We are only messengers. The constitution is the message.
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Old May 26, 2011, 07:53   #17
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Re: Re: Re: Ron Paul's Immigration Flip-Flop

Quote:
Originally posted by juanni



Still waiting.........


............juanni

and waiting......... and waiting..........




.............juanni
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Old May 26, 2011, 11:36   #18
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Ron Paul's Immigration Flip-Flop

Quote:
Originally posted by juanni



and waiting......... and waiting..........




.............juanni
You don't seriously think you'll get an answer do you?
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"I don't run with lemmings...even well armed ones."

"If we had as many misconceptions about the FN FAL as we do about the constitution. The body count from accidents would be much, much higher around here."
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Old May 26, 2011, 12:00   #19
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ron Paul's Immigration Flip-Flop

Quote:
Originally posted by Pistolwiz


You don't seriously think you'll get an answer do you?
I guess we already got the answer in this quote.
Quote:
In his new book, Liberty Defined, Paul instead praises the “superior” work ethic of immigrants and cites anti-Hispanic prejudice as the source of immigration hawks’ energy,
Hell if that isn't a 180 degree flip flop and a call for OPEN BORDERS, ELIMINATION OF VISA REQUIREMENTS, DOUBLING DOWN ON WELFARE FOR ILLEGALS and AMNESTY for all I don't know what is.



Pathetic what Paul bashers have to grasp at and the absurd connections they have to construct.



..............juanni
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Old May 27, 2011, 13:57   #20
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Afternoon smokeater- I think the confusion is with the distinction between legal immigrants and border jumpers. Those who take the legal path ARE usually hard working

SO Rep Paul can write that fact in his book to show he respects all legal immigrants.
This does not mean he has changed his position on the border and its problems./ solutions.

At least I hope that is the correct take. if not "they" got to him.
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