Best ammo for accuracy?

**garyd1961** · March 26, 2011, 21:42

What is the best ammo to use in a FAL/L1A1 for accuracy other than hand loads. What ammo have you gotten the best groups with? Include surplus and store bought ammo.
I recently scoped one of my L1A1s and I'm trying to tighten up my groups.
Thanks, Gary.
EDIT - I know there is another tread very similar to this one but they seem to have gotten off topic so I started this one. Please keep this about ammo not about how the FAL isn't a MOA rifle or who has the best groups.

**msnyder** · March 27, 2011, 05:00

Radway Green does well in my STG-58. 1.5 moa.
I just bought some more Radway Green, DAG and Privi Partizan Match to test out in my L1A1. I'll post results when I get them.

Super B · March 27, 2011, 06:02

I feed my FAL CAVIM because it never jams. When Im out of the cheap stuff I will feed it Port.

Deltaten · March 27, 2011, 10:12

Given that most rifles have a particular favorite ammo....

From my own experience and a myriad of posts and replies here over the years; it is said that the Aussie F-4 ball is the most intrinsically accurate. Generally considered to be on par or beyond the accepted standard of Fed Gold Match.

While so'n'so's rifle *may* shoot sub-MOA with a certain lot of Brand-X surplus; another shooter may/will get "patterns" with same. In all my rifles, the Aussie will exceed my abilities and deliver better groups than most other surplus.

YMMV

Consider that there *must* be a reason that Aussie is still holding a higher price point!

Add to this the standard comment posted by most...Wish I'da bought a pile more of it!" I'm in the same boat there

HTH,
Paul

Clonehead · March 27, 2011, 10:47

The last time I tried shooting groups for accuracy, SA 147gr surplus out shot "premium" commercial ammo. I had some Federal 150gr Barnes-X that did pretty well, in fact the Federal out shot the Hornady and Winchester loads I tried.

Keep in mind that what works in one FAL might not necessarily work equally well in another. Best of luck.

**msnyder** · March 27, 2011, 11:29

I shot some PMC Bronze through my Brit L1A1 last week. Winds were very strong, about 25 mph and I was using a 4x Elcan. I managed to hit the target.
20 rounds went into an 11" group at 200 yds. I had been cleaning the bore with a patch soaked in Hoppes #9 wrapped around a worn bore brush. Patch was coming out clean and bore was bright and shiny. TE is about 2. No pitting. This morning was supposed to be my range test of Dag, Privi and linked RG but I decide to clean the bore one more time, this time with Sweets. I've got 10 blue patches now! Do these Brit bores ever come clean? I don't see the fouling problems so much with Aussie L1A1's or metric rifles.

**garyd1961** · March 27, 2011, 11:52

Thanks for the replies,this is exactly what I was looking for. I know each rifle is different but I was looking to see if one ammo stood out over all. I have several different types of ammo but most are in unopened cans or battle packs and I was wondering what I should try next. I was shooting Radway and getting 5-6 inch groups with a couple of fliers. The wind was blowing pretty hard though.
I agree with Deltaten about the Aussie. When I got my first L1A1 a local gun shop was selling Aussie loose. I didn't know it was Aussie until I shot most of it up. Since then I haven't found any ammo as clean and accurate as the Aussie. I do have a unopened 200 rd can of it that I'm saving.
Is there a cheap($1.00 or less per round) store bought ammo that's better than surplus?
I still would like to hear what's the best surplus or store bought ammo you have shot. Thanks, Gary.

stubdog25 · March 27, 2011, 12:02

Federal Gold Medal Match, 168grain performs the best in my StG58. Consistant 1.5-2.0 moa groups out past 700 yards.

Their 175 grain performed the same but was about 1moa lower on poi.

I know this thread is not about hand loading, but for what it is worth, the reload I worked up that mimics FGMM168, (at less than half the price), is below:

Once fired Federal brass
CCI large rifle bench rest primer
42 grains Varget
168grain Sierra Match King
Overall length = 2.785/2.800

**garyd1961** · March 27, 2011, 12:13

I don't load my own but I don't mind hearing about the hand loads. I may start loading one day and I'm sure others on here can use the info.

gunsmoke · March 27, 2011, 12:37

I've found M118 to be the best performers bar none. Price performance wise my Belgians seem to like PRIVI 175 grs. and RG but PRIVI edges out the RG price wise because its boxer and reloadable.

You really have to try a variety to find what YOIR GUN LIKES.

**garyd1961** · March 27, 2011, 13:04

I've been cleaning with Hoppe's for a while. I clean it ,shoot 5-10 rounds and clean it again. I will get some sweets and try it.
gunsmoke,I know different rifles like different ammo. I just wanted to know is there one ammo that's better than the rest over all.

**LaConservationist** · March 27, 2011, 13:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Deltaten
Given that most rifles have a particular favorite ammo....

From my own experience and a myriad of posts and replies here over the years; it is said that the Aussie F-4 ball is the most intrinsically accurate. GHTH,
Paul

This is my experiance also! ADI has out performed the Port,DAG, Hert, mass reloads that I have obtained. Now again this is my personal experiance. There are many other loads that I have never even touched let alone fired. I just purchased some ARGY surplus that I will be testing over the next week or so. I am starting to run low on my favorite and that's of course the ADI! My remaining ADI will be sandbagged and stored away until I can come across a few more cases!

LaC

**msnyder** · March 27, 2011, 19:49

Just got back from the range. Had my targets at the 200 yd line. After cleaning my bore with about 25 patches of Sweets the groups are remarkably better. I was getting 11" groups at 200 yds with PMC. After cleaning the bore and firing 40 rounds to sight the scope in here are the results. All shots fired from the mag, sling shot first round, rapid fire 1-2 seconds per shot off a caldwell front rest and bean bag rear rest:

PMC Bronze: 6 shots into 2.75" at 200 yds. There may be 1-2 rounds off paper. I was rapid firing and not counting. I'll have to retest this ammo.

Privi 168 Match: 10 shots into 4.75" at 200 yds.

Used up the Radway and Dag sighting the scope in. I should have pasted some targets at 25 but I usually don't have so much trouble sighting in a scope. I had a spotter this time and the rounds were kicking up a dust storm on impact which made it difficult to see where I was hitting. When I finally got it on paper I was surprised at how well it performed.

**garyd1961** · March 27, 2011, 20:42

That's some d@^^ good shooting, Snyder. I will have to get some sweets. I have some PMC, I will try that next time .

hagar · March 27, 2011, 21:14

I had the same experience with an early Century L1A1 thumbhole stocked rifle, the first Fal type rifle I owned after my SADF R1, which I unfortunately had to hand back when I got mustered out of the SADF. The L1A1 shot like chit compared to my R1, around 6 inches at 100! Bore looked bright and shiny, but I started treating it with Sweets anyway, and treated and treated. Took me 2 weeks to get all the copper out, and then I shot a 3 shot 1 inch group at 100 yards. I don't know what they taught the Brits about gun cleaning, because every single Enfield I ever bought had just as much copper in it.

**msnyder** · March 27, 2011, 21:39

Yep, this was a 1975 Enfield barrel. The PMC group was shot right before the Privi group. 72 rounds total fired. Cleaned out the bore with Hoppes 9 to get the powder out and then ran some more Sweets through. Very little blue came out this time so after 1 patch of Sweets I ran some dry patches through and a couple of CLP patches. The PMC is cheap and reloadable.

**gunplumber** · March 28, 2011, 10:00

yesterday, it took me three shots, but I hit the end of a flattened soda can at 475 yards with surplus FMP ball with a 10x scope out of a SCAR-17.

I got maybe 1 in 40 light primer strikes from the exceptionally hard primers, in three different guns, all of which fired fine the second time.

A stock SAR-48, and a SAR 48 para with 6x scope, 50% hits on 1/4 scale steel pepper-poppers at 475 yards was common. This is a target maybe 4" wide by 14" tall.

The point is, surplus ammo from Portugal, South Africa, UK, Australia, Spain, have all done statistically very well. While there may be an occasional flier, when you push out to 500 yards, there is a lot more going on than with a 100.

**msnyder** · March 28, 2011, 10:07

"yesterday, it took me three shots, but I hit the end of a flattened soda can at 475 yards with surplus FMP ball with a 10x scope out of a SCAR-17."

Absolutely outstanding! This is a bad omen for my bank account though.

**gunplumber** · March 28, 2011, 10:17

The SCAR was boring at the 500 meter line. The Mk IV M3 BDC dialed right in from a 300 meter zero. In contrast the 6x zeis on the fal, with a 300m zero, I had to completely cover the target with the post to get enough elevation. The wide crosshair is too close to the narrow crosshair. Faster for 2-300m, not much use at 25m or 500m.

According to my borrowed Leica range finder the targets ran from 475 to 485.

A rangefinder is going to be my next big purchase. This one was incredible. But way over budget right now.

http://swfa.com/Leica-Rangefinders-C513.aspx

**msnyder** · March 29, 2011, 13:54

I retested the PMC bronze with the same rifle at 200 yds. This time I shot 10 rounds. 7 went into about 4" but there were 3 fliers that spread the group out to about 10" so the Privi 168 Match is more accurate than the PMC bronze. Also much more consistent. The Privi group was evenly distributed. I'll try DAG and RG next.

IRONWORKER · March 29, 2011, 18:23

Other than handloads i get my best groups from Privi 168gr match out of my best Steyr STG, while i have read that some aren't very accurate i have a Argie chrome lined barrel that shoots damn near as good as my most accurate STG but it likes RG & Port

Dirt1042 · March 30, 2011, 10:07

Quote:

Originally posted by gunplumber
The SCAR was boring at the 500 meter line. The Mk IV M3 BDC dialed right in from a 300 meter zero. In contrast the 6x zeis on the fal, with a 300m zero, I had to completely cover the target with the post to get enough elevation. The wide crosshair is too close to the narrow crosshair. Faster for 2-300m, not much use at 25m or 500m.

According to my borrowed Leica range finder the targets ran from 475 to 485.

A rangefinder is going to be my next big purchase. This one was incredible. But way over budget right now.

http://swfa.com/Leica-Rangefinders-C513.aspx

Just got the Leica 1600. I couldn't believe how small it was to my older range finder and crystal clear. A friend of mine is using it down in Vegas this week.

Dirt1042 · March 30, 2011, 10:09

I've had the best results with Santa Barbara 78 out of my Imbel/Imbel kit gun.

**msnyder** · March 30, 2011, 13:45

Just got back from trying the Radway Green. 6 shot 8" group. Looks like the Privit 168 is the champ for this rifle @ 2.4 moa.

update 4/1: 10 shots of RG at 100 yds. 8 rounds into 3". 9 into 4" a low flyer spread the group out to 7".

The PRVI pattern at 200 yds was was evenly distributed while the RG has a flyer here and there. The linked RG is also tarnished. I'm thinking this RG is not the same super accurate RG that was sold in boxes 10 years ago.

**msnyder** · April 02, 2011, 10:41

Just tried the '93 DAG. 5 shot 1.6" group at 100 yds!

Rifle: '75 Enfield barrel, TE of 2, crown touched up with Brownells 45 deg. crowning tool. Clean bore. Entreprise Brit receiver. 12x scope on Argy Stanag dustcover mount. Fully loaded mag.

I cleaned out the bore the night before as it had become copper fouled again. After running 25+ patches of Hoppes 9 through it for a couple of hrs the patches weren't blue so I ran a dry patch, then a couple of CLP patches and took it to the range for a try out.

1st 5 shots were slow (1 shot/minute) and all 5 were in a very uniform circle in the 6&7 ring, 1.6" group. After I saw they were grouping nicely from my freshly cleaned barrel I fired the next shots fast, about 1 shot every 3-5 seconds. This moved the poi up an inch and this second group of 5 went into 2.1" (4/5 into 1.25").

So the linked Radway Green is not as good as the boxed Radway Green I was shooting around 2001.

The DAG is clean, untarnished and $440/1000 shipped from Wideners. Dans also has the '93 Dag.

I just ordered a case for myself.

**garyd1961** · April 02, 2011, 13:12

I have a couple of boxes of DAG I bought this week at the LGS. I want to go shoot but the wind is blowing 20-30 mph right now.
Let me tell you about my rifle. It's an Enterprise Aussie L1A1 receiver that I paid $150 for. The seller threw a 61 Enfield barrel in for free. I bought a complete unissued Aussie lower minus the HTS for $150. The scope is a Bushnell Elite 3200 3x7x32 Fire fly, that I got for $125-150 don't really remember. The scope mount is unmarked and I got it for $20.
This is not my best L1A1 but that makes it a challenge. I am tickled pink to be shooting 5-6 inch groups with it. I hope to get them down to 3 inch or less.
I have a mix of trigger parts some Century and some FSE I believe. It has the best trigger pull of any rifle I got. It's a lot lighter than my other L1A1s and breaks like glass. I am still working on flinching but with this rifle I never know when it's going to break.
edit- Just like to note I replaced the long Britt FH with a PNG FH.

**msnyder** · April 02, 2011, 13:34

Wow! What a deal on the receiver/barrel. I never find deals like that. The RG had fliers from both of our rifles. The DAG and PRVI is consistent, no fliers, and tighter grouping out of mine and I'm betting you see the same results. It took me a while to realize the Brit ammo was the culprit. The last time I shot the boxed RG around 2001 I was getting match results. This time, fliers that are WAY outside the rest of the shots. The linked RG is tarnished. The boxed RG form 10 years ago wasn't.

**garyd1961** · April 02, 2011, 13:48

The guy who sold me the receiver said it would not cycle and the barrel's gas port was too large. When I got it the first thing I noticed was the rails looked uneven (unfinished) I filed them even and smoothed them out. They also were covered with Dura-kote which I removed. The barrel 's gas port was a little oversized so I used a smaller piston. It runs on #4 and I have never had any problems what so ever.
I hope to get out and try the DAG ammo tomorrow.

**garyd1961** · April 03, 2011, 15:12

DANG-IT!!! I am a slow typer and I just lost a long detailed post about today's shoot!
Well I shot some DAG today. It was a lot better than the RG that I was shooting. I only shot three shot groups because that's the way I learned to shoot. The first group was 4 inches, the second group was 3 inches, the third group was 3 inches. All shots were within three inches of bullseye. I was standing and shooting off a table in the back of my Nissan PU. The wind was 10-15 from my right. I would have shot more but I wanted to shoot my Mauser some. The DAG is good stuff, I'm going to see if I can find some Aussie to try next time.It was a good day.

**msnyder** · April 04, 2011, 20:19

Just put 10 rounds of DAG through my STG with the same scope setup as the Brit.

Brit = 1.6" and 2.1" 5 shot groups. Avg = 1.85" , 10 shot group = 2.80"

STG = 1.85" and 1.95" 5 shot groups. Avg = 1.90", 10 shot group = 2.25"

koponen · April 05, 2011, 01:17

I feed my Stg58 Sako Range, the best accuracy cheapish ammo I have found for my three 308s. Sub 2MOA groups reliably from the Stg, sub MOA from Tikka T3 Tactical, something in between from a cheap hunting rifle.

Range grouped worse than Barnaul on a badly fouled Indian 1A1, however. Then again, 10 vs 8 inched at 100 yds... Well.

March 26, 2011, 21:42	#1
garyd1961 Curio & Relic Contributor Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 39373 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NC Posts: 2,702	Best ammo for accuracy? What is the best ammo to use in a FAL/L1A1 for accuracy other than hand loads. What ammo have you gotten the best groups with? Include surplus and store bought ammo. I recently scoped one of my L1A1s and I'm trying to tighten up my groups. Thanks, Gary. EDIT - I know there is another tread very similar to this one but they seem to have gotten off topic so I started this one. Please keep this about ammo not about how the FAL isn't a MOA rifle or who has the best groups. __________________ One nation under God. Last edited by garyd1961; March 26, 2011 at 22:47.

March 27, 2011, 05:00	#2
msnyder Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 1085 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 2,816	Radway Green does well in my STG-58. 1.5 moa. I just bought some more Radway Green, DAG and Privi Partizan Match to test out in my L1A1. I'll post results when I get them. Last edited by msnyder; March 27, 2011 at 05:12.

March 27, 2011, 06:02	#3
Super B Registered FALaholic #: 404 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tallahassee, FL,, USA Posts: 1,632	I feed my FAL CAVIM because it never jams. When Im out of the cheap stuff I will feed it Port. __________________ 'The true Soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' -G. K. Chesterton

March 27, 2011, 11:29	#6
msnyder Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 1085 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 2,816	I shot some PMC Bronze through my Brit L1A1 last week. Winds were very strong, about 25 mph and I was using a 4x Elcan. I managed to hit the target. 20 rounds went into an 11" group at 200 yds. I had been cleaning the bore with a patch soaked in Hoppes #9 wrapped around a worn bore brush. Patch was coming out clean and bore was bright and shiny. TE is about 2. No pitting. This morning was supposed to be my range test of Dag, Privi and linked RG but I decide to clean the bore one more time, this time with Sweets. I've got 10 blue patches now! Do these Brit bores ever come clean? I don't see the fouling problems so much with Aussie L1A1's or metric rifles. Last edited by msnyder; March 27, 2011 at 19:50.

March 27, 2011, 11:52	#7
garyd1961 Curio & Relic Contributor Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 39373 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NC Posts: 2,702	Thanks for the replies,this is exactly what I was looking for. I know each rifle is different but I was looking to see if one ammo stood out over all. I have several different types of ammo but most are in unopened cans or battle packs and I was wondering what I should try next. I was shooting Radway and getting 5-6 inch groups with a couple of fliers. The wind was blowing pretty hard though. I agree with Deltaten about the Aussie. When I got my first L1A1 a local gun shop was selling Aussie loose. I didn't know it was Aussie until I shot most of it up. Since then I haven't found any ammo as clean and accurate as the Aussie. I do have a unopened 200 rd can of it that I'm saving. Is there a cheap($1.00 or less per round) store bought ammo that's better than surplus? I still would like to hear what's the best surplus or store bought ammo you have shot. Thanks, Gary. __________________ One nation under God. Last edited by garyd1961; March 27, 2011 at 12:03.

March 27, 2011, 10:12	#4
Deltaten Registered FALaholic #: 124 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lancaster, PA USA Posts: 8,499	Given that most rifles have a particular favorite ammo.... From my own experience and a myriad of posts and replies here over the years; it is said that the Aussie F-4 ball is the most intrinsically accurate. Generally considered to be on par or beyond the accepted standard of Fed Gold Match. While so'n'so's rifle may shoot sub-MOA with a certain lot of Brand-X surplus; another shooter may/will get "patterns" with same. In all my rifles, the Aussie will exceed my abilities and deliver better groups than most other surplus. YMMV Consider that there must be a reason that Aussie is still holding a higher price point! Add to this the standard comment posted by most...Wish I'da bought a pile more of it!" I'm in the same boat there HTH, Paul __________________ All or Nothing! Senator McCarthy was right! and as always......FYB!

March 27, 2011, 10:47	#5
Clonehead Registered Contributor FALaholic #: 27461 Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 342	The last time I tried shooting groups for accuracy, SA 147gr surplus out shot "premium" commercial ammo. I had some Federal 150gr Barnes-X that did pretty well, in fact the Federal out shot the Hornady and Winchester loads I tried. Keep in mind that what works in one FAL might not necessarily work equally well in another. Best of luck.

March 27, 2011, 12:02	#8
stubdog25 Registered FALaholic #: 62746 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Crest Line, California Posts: 178	Federal Gold Medal Match, 168grain performs the best in my StG58. Consistant 1.5-2.0 moa groups out past 700 yards. Their 175 grain performed the same but was about 1moa lower on poi. I know this thread is not about hand loading, but for what it is worth, the reload I worked up that mimics FGMM168, (at less than half the price), is below: Once fired Federal brass CCI large rifle bench rest primer 42 grains Varget 168grain Sierra Match King Overall length = 2.785/2.800

March 27, 2011, 12:13	#9
garyd1961 Curio & Relic Contributor Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 39373 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NC Posts: 2,702	I don't load my own but I don't mind hearing about the hand loads. I may start loading one day and I'm sure others on here can use the info. __________________ One nation under God.

March 27, 2011, 12:37	#10
gunsmoke Registered FALaholic #: 14772 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: LOUISIANA Posts: 1,196	I've found M118 to be the best performers bar none. Price performance wise my Belgians seem to like PRIVI 175 grs. and RG but PRIVI edges out the RG price wise because its boxer and reloadable. You really have to try a variety to find what YOIR GUN LIKES. __________________ "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

March 27, 2011, 13:04	#11
garyd1961 Curio & Relic Contributor Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 39373 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NC Posts: 2,702	I've been cleaning with Hoppe's for a while. I clean it ,shoot 5-10 rounds and clean it again. I will get some sweets and try it. gunsmoke,I know different rifles like different ammo. I just wanted to know is there one ammo that's better than the rest over all. __________________ One nation under God.

March 27, 2011, 19:49	#13
msnyder Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 1085 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 2,816	Just got back from the range. Had my targets at the 200 yd line. After cleaning my bore with about 25 patches of Sweets the groups are remarkably better. I was getting 11" groups at 200 yds with PMC. After cleaning the bore and firing 40 rounds to sight the scope in here are the results. All shots fired from the mag, sling shot first round, rapid fire 1-2 seconds per shot off a caldwell front rest and bean bag rear rest: PMC Bronze: 6 shots into 2.75" at 200 yds. There may be 1-2 rounds off paper. I was rapid firing and not counting. I'll have to retest this ammo. Privi 168 Match: 10 shots into 4.75" at 200 yds. Used up the Radway and Dag sighting the scope in. I should have pasted some targets at 25 but I usually don't have so much trouble sighting in a scope. I had a spotter this time and the rounds were kicking up a dust storm on impact which made it difficult to see where I was hitting. When I finally got it on paper I was surprised at how well it performed.

March 27, 2011, 20:42	#14
garyd1961 Curio & Relic Contributor Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 39373 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NC Posts: 2,702	That's some d@^^ good shooting, Snyder. I will have to get some sweets. I have some PMC, I will try that next time . __________________ One nation under God.

March 27, 2011, 21:14	#15
hagar Registered FALaholic #: 228 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 6,693	I had the same experience with an early Century L1A1 thumbhole stocked rifle, the first Fal type rifle I owned after my SADF R1, which I unfortunately had to hand back when I got mustered out of the SADF. The L1A1 shot like chit compared to my R1, around 6 inches at 100! Bore looked bright and shiny, but I started treating it with Sweets anyway, and treated and treated. Took me 2 weeks to get all the copper out, and then I shot a 3 shot 1 inch group at 100 yards. I don't know what they taught the Brits about gun cleaning, because every single Enfield I ever bought had just as much copper in it.

March 27, 2011, 21:39	#16
msnyder Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 1085 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 2,816	Yep, this was a 1975 Enfield barrel. The PMC group was shot right before the Privi group. 72 rounds total fired. Cleaned out the bore with Hoppes 9 to get the powder out and then ran some more Sweets through. Very little blue came out this time so after 1 patch of Sweets I ran some dry patches through and a couple of CLP patches. The PMC is cheap and reloadable.

March 28, 2011, 10:00	#17
gunplumber Arrogant Bastard Gold Contributor FALaholic #: 96 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Surprise, AZ Posts: 15,769	yesterday, it took me three shots, but I hit the end of a flattened soda can at 475 yards with surplus FMP ball with a 10x scope out of a SCAR-17. I got maybe 1 in 40 light primer strikes from the exceptionally hard primers, in three different guns, all of which fired fine the second time. A stock SAR-48, and a SAR 48 para with 6x scope, 50% hits on 1/4 scale steel pepper-poppers at 475 yards was common. This is a target maybe 4" wide by 14" tall. The point is, surplus ammo from Portugal, South Africa, UK, Australia, Spain, have all done statistically very well. While there may be an occasional flier, when you push out to 500 yards, there is a lot more going on than with a 100. __________________ T. Mark Graham Master Gunsmith Arizona Response Systems, LLC

March 28, 2011, 10:07	#18
msnyder Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 1085 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 2,816	"yesterday, it took me three shots, but I hit the end of a flattened soda can at 475 yards with surplus FMP ball with a 10x scope out of a SCAR-17." Absolutely outstanding! This is a bad omen for my bank account though.

March 28, 2011, 10:17	#19
gunplumber Arrogant Bastard Gold Contributor FALaholic #: 96 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Surprise, AZ Posts: 15,769	The SCAR was boring at the 500 meter line. The Mk IV M3 BDC dialed right in from a 300 meter zero. In contrast the 6x zeis on the fal, with a 300m zero, I had to completely cover the target with the post to get enough elevation. The wide crosshair is too close to the narrow crosshair. Faster for 2-300m, not much use at 25m or 500m. According to my borrowed Leica range finder the targets ran from 475 to 485. A rangefinder is going to be my next big purchase. This one was incredible. But way over budget right now. http://swfa.com/Leica-Rangefinders-C513.aspx __________________ T. Mark Graham Master Gunsmith Arizona Response Systems, LLC

March 29, 2011, 13:54	#20
msnyder Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 1085 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 2,816	I retested the PMC bronze with the same rifle at 200 yds. This time I shot 10 rounds. 7 went into about 4" but there were 3 fliers that spread the group out to about 10" so the Privi 168 Match is more accurate than the PMC bronze. Also much more consistent. The Privi group was evenly distributed. I'll try DAG and RG next.

March 29, 2011, 18:23	#21
IRONWORKER Registered FALaholic #: 48581 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Millspring NC Posts: 2,652	Other than handloads i get my best groups from Privi 168gr match out of my best Steyr STG, while i have read that some aren't very accurate i have a Argie chrome lined barrel that shoots damn near as good as my most accurate STG but it likes RG & Port

March 30, 2011, 10:09	#23
Dirt1042 Registered FALaholic #: 21859 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Montana Posts: 3,799	I've had the best results with Santa Barbara 78 out of my Imbel/Imbel kit gun. __________________ ORO Y PLATA! ~Pain By Steel Rain~ R 5/10 2nd Mar Div

March 30, 2011, 13:45	#24
msnyder Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 1085 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 2,816	Just got back from trying the Radway Green. 6 shot 8" group. Looks like the Privit 168 is the champ for this rifle @ 2.4 moa. update 4/1: 10 shots of RG at 100 yds. 8 rounds into 3". 9 into 4" a low flyer spread the group out to 7". The PRVI pattern at 200 yds was was evenly distributed while the RG has a flyer here and there. The linked RG is also tarnished. I'm thinking this RG is not the same super accurate RG that was sold in boxes 10 years ago. Last edited by msnyder; April 01, 2011 at 15:34.

April 02, 2011, 10:41	#25
msnyder Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 1085 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 2,816	Just tried the '93 DAG. 5 shot 1.6" group at 100 yds! Rifle: '75 Enfield barrel, TE of 2, crown touched up with Brownells 45 deg. crowning tool. Clean bore. Entreprise Brit receiver. 12x scope on Argy Stanag dustcover mount. Fully loaded mag. I cleaned out the bore the night before as it had become copper fouled again. After running 25+ patches of Hoppes 9 through it for a couple of hrs the patches weren't blue so I ran a dry patch, then a couple of CLP patches and took it to the range for a try out. 1st 5 shots were slow (1 shot/minute) and all 5 were in a very uniform circle in the 6&7 ring, 1.6" group. After I saw they were grouping nicely from my freshly cleaned barrel I fired the next shots fast, about 1 shot every 3-5 seconds. This moved the poi up an inch and this second group of 5 went into 2.1" (4/5 into 1.25"). So the linked Radway Green is not as good as the boxed Radway Green I was shooting around 2001. The DAG is clean, untarnished and $440/1000 shipped from Wideners. Dans also has the '93 Dag. I just ordered a case for myself.

April 02, 2011, 13:12	#26
garyd1961 Curio & Relic Contributor Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 39373 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NC Posts: 2,702	I have a couple of boxes of DAG I bought this week at the LGS. I want to go shoot but the wind is blowing 20-30 mph right now. Let me tell you about my rifle. It's an Enterprise Aussie L1A1 receiver that I paid $150 for. The seller threw a 61 Enfield barrel in for free. I bought a complete unissued Aussie lower minus the HTS for $150. The scope is a Bushnell Elite 3200 3x7x32 Fire fly, that I got for $125-150 don't really remember. The scope mount is unmarked and I got it for $20. This is not my best L1A1 but that makes it a challenge. I am tickled pink to be shooting 5-6 inch groups with it. I hope to get them down to 3 inch or less. I have a mix of trigger parts some Century and some FSE I believe. It has the best trigger pull of any rifle I got. It's a lot lighter than my other L1A1s and breaks like glass. I am still working on flinching but with this rifle I never know when it's going to break. edit- Just like to note I replaced the long Britt FH with a PNG FH. __________________ One nation under God. Last edited by garyd1961; April 02, 2011 at 13:36.

April 02, 2011, 13:34	#27
msnyder Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 1085 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 2,816	Wow! What a deal on the receiver/barrel. I never find deals like that. The RG had fliers from both of our rifles. The DAG and PRVI is consistent, no fliers, and tighter grouping out of mine and I'm betting you see the same results. It took me a while to realize the Brit ammo was the culprit. The last time I shot the boxed RG around 2001 I was getting match results. This time, fliers that are WAY outside the rest of the shots. The linked RG is tarnished. The boxed RG form 10 years ago wasn't.

April 02, 2011, 13:48	#28
garyd1961 Curio & Relic Contributor Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 39373 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NC Posts: 2,702	The guy who sold me the receiver said it would not cycle and the barrel's gas port was too large. When I got it the first thing I noticed was the rails looked uneven (unfinished) I filed them even and smoothed them out. They also were covered with Dura-kote which I removed. The barrel 's gas port was a little oversized so I used a smaller piston. It runs on #4 and I have never had any problems what so ever. I hope to get out and try the DAG ammo tomorrow. __________________ One nation under God. Last edited by garyd1961; April 02, 2011 at 14:07.

April 03, 2011, 15:12	#29
garyd1961 Curio & Relic Contributor Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 39373 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NC Posts: 2,702	DANG-IT!!! I am a slow typer and I just lost a long detailed post about today's shoot! Well I shot some DAG today. It was a lot better than the RG that I was shooting. I only shot three shot groups because that's the way I learned to shoot. The first group was 4 inches, the second group was 3 inches, the third group was 3 inches. All shots were within three inches of bullseye. I was standing and shooting off a table in the back of my Nissan PU. The wind was 10-15 from my right. I would have shot more but I wanted to shoot my Mauser some. The DAG is good stuff, I'm going to see if I can find some Aussie to try next time.It was a good day. __________________ One nation under God.

April 04, 2011, 20:19	#30
msnyder Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 1085 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: New Mexico Posts: 2,816	Just put 10 rounds of DAG through my STG with the same scope setup as the Brit. Brit = 1.6" and 2.1" 5 shot groups. Avg = 1.85" , 10 shot group = 2.80" STG = 1.85" and 1.95" 5 shot groups. Avg = 1.90", 10 shot group = 2.25"

April 05, 2011, 01:17	#31
koponen Registered FALaholic #: 62986 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Finland, Europe Posts: 6	I feed my Stg58 Sako Range, the best accuracy cheapish ammo I have found for my three 308s. Sub 2MOA groups reliably from the Stg, sub MOA from Tikka T3 Tactical, something in between from a cheap hunting rifle. Range grouped worse than Barnaul on a badly fouled Indian 1A1, however. Then again, 10 vs 8 inched at 100 yds... Well.

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