Reloading .223, not too happy so far...

**karambay** · February 20, 2011, 21:35

Hey all, I'm pretty new to reloading, so I'm glad everything safely went 'bang', but I was hoping for a little better in the accuracy department.

I'll say up front, I was VERY happy with my .45 loads for the 1911
I know it's only 5.56 and not 7.62, so what else should I expect!

The details: Rifle. bushmaster 20" 1/9 twist 2stage trigger.

The projectile was a pulled 55g FMJ
Powder 25.5g, 26.5g, 27.5g Varget
Brass once fired LC and WCC
Primer Wolf

I shot 1 10shot group each off a rest 100yards, open sights, results:
25.5g- 5.6"
26.5g- 8.1"
27.5g- 5.3"

All were worse than winchester white box by a lot, and on par with some fairly inaccurate commercial reloads I have.

Any suggestions of where to start, other than I will likely try shooting the same course of fire again to confirm.
I was hoping to see more of a trend in the group size, and then break down the powder into smaller increments, but I don't see a trend.

ammolab · February 20, 2011, 21:49

Don't expect great accuracy from "Pulled" bullets. There can be issues with pulled bullets that greatly decrease accuracy.

How good of a group do you shoot with Factory ammo? With MATCH ammo?

You should be able to meet or beat Factory ammo at least....MATCH ammo should be your goal. With good procedures and components you should have no problem meeting or beating MATCH ammo performance.

ftierson · February 20, 2011, 21:50

Start with a decent bullet.

Even the cheap Win. M193 or IMI M193 bullets are hands-down better than pulled bullets...

Forrest

ftierson · February 20, 2011, 21:51

Yeah, what ammolab says...

Forrest

HighRatMaster · February 20, 2011, 21:57

My experience with pulled 55gr FMJs leads me to believe if they hit paper it's a good thing. Most are not high quality fly straight bullets to start with, don't think I ever got better than 2moa from Winchesters, Hornadys are better. Then depending on how they were pulled, it can get worse. IMI used to be capable of sub moa but if you really want accuracy, buy higher quality never used bullets.

**karambay** · February 20, 2011, 22:06

Sounds great, thanks for the quick feed back. Sounds like I've got some plinking ammo, and I'll get to working on some better quality hand loads.

with factory the group size was about half 2-3" if I remember. Haven't shot match ammo with this rifle yet.

FALic · February 20, 2011, 22:25

Sierra has a special section for AR15 reloading and they list RE-7 as the accuracy load for 55g bullets. RE-7 is a lot faster than Varget in terms of the power curve, looking at Sierra's list RE-7 is 17 powders faster than Varget. Sierra lists Varget as the accuracy powder for their 69g bullet.

My recommendations:

1.) Buy a Sierra reloading manual - they've got a separate section on powders and bullets for the AR15.

2.) Get a faster powder if you're going to shoot 55g bullets - RE-7 is an excellent choice.

3.) Get a heavier bullet if you've got a bunch of Varget. Get the Sierra, Hornady, or the Wideners MilSpect 69g bullet (in that order of preference and cost).

4.) Don't use pulled bullets, decent 55g bullets are inexpensive - don't diminish your investment in time spent reloading by going cheap on components.

5.) Get CCI primers.

6.) Ditch the poodle shooter and get an FAL - after all, this is the FAL Files.

DYNOMIKE · February 20, 2011, 22:46

The .223 is actually very easy to load for and there are many great load combo's.. With that 1:9 twist I suspect you will get very good results with most anything from 55-75 gr bullets..

Iv'e used H-335, W-748, BLC-2, H-322, & R-15 with excellent results so finding a good powder is easy.. Keep in mind that is but a portion of the powders that will work these just happen to be the ones I like the best..

Your loads with VARGET (good powder) should produce much better accuracy then you experienced so don't get too upset with your results to date..

Bulk bullets in 55, & 62 gr weights are no trouble to find and pretty reasonably priced..

Primers don't seem to matter although there have been those that stated MAX LOADS can cause issues when the Newer WIN primers are used.. Never experienced this myself but it's worth mentioning just the same.
I use REM, FED, WIN, CCI, & even WOLF primers and all have performed perfectly..

Only other thing I would suggest is be sure you have a quality case gauge for setting your sizing die.. "IF" you don't already have one be sure to get (and USE) one ASAP..

evan price · February 20, 2011, 23:08

Varget and light bullets isn't the best combo. I use H335 and find it meters better and shoots better for lightweight bullets.

Like was already said, your pulled bullets are probably a lot to blame. Take a cheap bulk military bullet, load it in ammo and crimp it, then pull it out with a bullet puller, it's going to get damaged in the process.

Check Widener's for a good deal on bulk bullets.

IMHO, the 62 grain bullets are better but that's just me and my preferences.

hagar · February 20, 2011, 23:36

The best accuracy load at 100 yards would be 25 grains of Varget with a 60 grain Sierra hollow point or Hornady VMax bullet. The boat tail 68/69 grainers will beat it past 200 yards in the wind, but if your rifle does not shoot this load, something is wrong.

jefferyc22 · February 21, 2011, 00:08

An AR will always out shoot a FAL, most FALs shoot such bad PATTERNS you wouldn't even be able to tell if it liked a certain load. One nice thing about 5.56 is so many people shoot it that you should never have to pay for brass. Ranges are usually littered with spent poodle brass.You may be seeing bad groups due to excessive free bore as in your bullet seating depth may be to short. I would certainly up the bullet to a 62 gr pill and use an easier powder to meter such as BLC(2). Are you hand loading single stage or are you on a progressive?

jefferyc22 · February 21, 2011, 00:20

Quote:

Originally posted by evan price

Check Widener's for a good deal on bulk bullets.

IMHO, the 62 grain bullets are better but that's just me and my preferences.

+1 I just got 500 of the 62 grain M855 for $52.
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...d=7236&dir=278|281|727

ephv · February 21, 2011, 07:17

Try new bullets-

Wideners mil-spec. Great stuff.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...d=7436&dir=278|281|727

**karambay** · February 21, 2011, 09:18

Quote:

6.) Ditch the poodle shooter and get an FAL - after all, this is the FAL Files.

Don't worry, I've got a BUNCH of FAL's, and they all shoot better than this rifle

That's why this is a fun challenge.

Sounds like better and heavier bullets will be better, so far I guess I've learned the process from the cheap components, and first manuals, now to upgrade to better parts and the sierra manual.

Thanks again guys, I appreciate the opinions. Except this one jefferyc22

Quote:

An AR will always out shoot a FAL

Either of my StG's would like to have a word with you and your poodle shooter

Tuscan Raider · February 21, 2011, 09:24

You could try loading this:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...hreadid=301455

RottenII · February 21, 2011, 09:53

I like the Hornady 55fmj for general blasting. Much more accurate than any of the pulled bullets. I use TAC and have been pleased with the results. If you want to shoot nice little groups try the Nosler ballistic tips in 55gr. They shoot very well and you can buy them in the 250pk.

gew98 · February 22, 2011, 22:10

I have run across a couple 1/9 ( compromise twist ) AR's that would not print with 55 grainers. With 62.5's they perked right up...but I like the higher velocity 55 grainer..... those 3250fps FMJ's blow chucks all to hell. I've managed two coyotes with my A1 clone over the years and that little 55 grainerchunked them up good too.

acpat · March 05, 2011, 23:22

play with the seating depth. Almost all guns have two sweet spots long and deep bullet seating depths.
try different powders
try different primers
weigh cases
trim them all to lenght
you can play this game until you are 100yrs old ask me how I know lol
The mag and feeding are the limits on seating depths.
always watch cases for pressure warning sign. I err on the mild load side
best thing is get a case flash trimmer. Holes in primer pockets are punched and will have a flash on one sideof the hole. This does not lend to good equal burn w/ flash. Look inside any case and this is visible burr on one side of the flash hole.

February 20, 2011, 21:35	#1
karambay Senior Member Gold Contributor FALaholic #: 8066 Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 638	Reloading .223, not too happy so far... Hey all, I'm pretty new to reloading, so I'm glad everything safely went 'bang', but I was hoping for a little better in the accuracy department. I'll say up front, I was VERY happy with my .45 loads for the 1911 I know it's only 5.56 and not 7.62, so what else should I expect! The details: Rifle. bushmaster 20" 1/9 twist 2stage trigger. The projectile was a pulled 55g FMJ Powder 25.5g, 26.5g, 27.5g Varget Brass once fired LC and WCC Primer Wolf I shot 1 10shot group each off a rest 100yards, open sights, results: 25.5g- 5.6" 26.5g- 8.1" 27.5g- 5.3" All were worse than winchester white box by a lot, and on par with some fairly inaccurate commercial reloads I have. Any suggestions of where to start, other than I will likely try shooting the same course of fire again to confirm. I was hoping to see more of a trend in the group size, and then break down the powder into smaller increments, but I don't see a trend.

February 20, 2011, 21:57	#5
HighRatMaster Registered Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 19296 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Oleta CA USA Posts: 1,185	My experience with pulled 55gr FMJs leads me to believe if they hit paper it's a good thing. Most are not high quality fly straight bullets to start with, don't think I ever got better than 2moa from Winchesters, Hornadys are better. Then depending on how they were pulled, it can get worse. IMI used to be capable of sub moa but if you really want accuracy, buy higher quality never used bullets. __________________ It doesn't matter what you miss them with. Don't bother burying your guns because that's the time they need to be dug up. "You in or out?" "I'll take his legs."

February 20, 2011, 22:25	#7
FALic Registered FALaholic #: 3119 Join Date: May 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 182	Sierra has a special section for AR15 reloading and they list RE-7 as the accuracy load for 55g bullets. RE-7 is a lot faster than Varget in terms of the power curve, looking at Sierra's list RE-7 is 17 powders faster than Varget. Sierra lists Varget as the accuracy powder for their 69g bullet. My recommendations: 1.) Buy a Sierra reloading manual - they've got a separate section on powders and bullets for the AR15. 2.) Get a faster powder if you're going to shoot 55g bullets - RE-7 is an excellent choice. 3.) Get a heavier bullet if you've got a bunch of Varget. Get the Sierra, Hornady, or the Wideners MilSpect 69g bullet (in that order of preference and cost). 4.) Don't use pulled bullets, decent 55g bullets are inexpensive - don't diminish your investment in time spent reloading by going cheap on components. 5.) Get CCI primers. 6.) Ditch the poodle shooter and get an FAL - after all, this is the FAL Files. __________________ Run with the pack or piss with the puppies - it's your choice.

February 20, 2011, 22:46	#8
DYNOMIKE Registered Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 11982 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: FLORIDA Posts: 13,953	The .223 is actually very easy to load for and there are many great load combo's.. With that 1:9 twist I suspect you will get very good results with most anything from 55-75 gr bullets.. Iv'e used H-335, W-748, BLC-2, H-322, & R-15 with excellent results so finding a good powder is easy.. Keep in mind that is but a portion of the powders that will work these just happen to be the ones I like the best.. Your loads with VARGET (good powder) should produce much better accuracy then you experienced so don't get too upset with your results to date.. Bulk bullets in 55, & 62 gr weights are no trouble to find and pretty reasonably priced.. Primers don't seem to matter although there have been those that stated MAX LOADS can cause issues when the Newer WIN primers are used.. Never experienced this myself but it's worth mentioning just the same. I use REM, FED, WIN, CCI, & even WOLF primers and all have performed perfectly.. Only other thing I would suggest is be sure you have a quality case gauge for setting your sizing die.. "IF" you don't already have one be sure to get (and USE) one ASAP.. __________________ "If your Gonna DIE, DIE Standing UP"!! The WOLVERINES.......

February 20, 2011, 23:08	#9
evan price Registered FALaholic #: 20480 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: THE source for Ohio CCW => http://ohioccwforums.org/ Posts: 2,122	Varget and light bullets isn't the best combo. I use H335 and find it meters better and shoots better for lightweight bullets. Like was already said, your pulled bullets are probably a lot to blame. Take a cheap bulk military bullet, load it in ammo and crimp it, then pull it out with a bullet puller, it's going to get damaged in the process. Check Widener's for a good deal on bulk bullets. IMHO, the 62 grain bullets are better but that's just me and my preferences. __________________ http://www.ohioccwforums.org/ Ohio's best CCW resource!

February 20, 2011, 21:49	#2
ammolab Registered FALaholic #: 10923 Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,683	Don't expect great accuracy from "Pulled" bullets. There can be issues with pulled bullets that greatly decrease accuracy. How good of a group do you shoot with Factory ammo? With MATCH ammo? You should be able to meet or beat Factory ammo at least....MATCH ammo should be your goal. With good procedures and components you should have no problem meeting or beating MATCH ammo performance.

February 20, 2011, 21:50	#3
ftierson Registered FALaholic #: 13827 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 11,039	Start with a decent bullet. Even the cheap Win. M193 or IMI M193 bullets are hands-down better than pulled bullets... Forrest

February 20, 2011, 21:51	#4
ftierson Registered FALaholic #: 13827 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 11,039	Yeah, what ammolab says... Forrest

February 20, 2011, 22:06	#6
karambay Senior Member Gold Contributor FALaholic #: 8066 Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 638	Sounds great, thanks for the quick feed back. Sounds like I've got some plinking ammo, and I'll get to working on some better quality hand loads. with factory the group size was about half 2-3" if I remember. Haven't shot match ammo with this rifle yet.

February 20, 2011, 23:36	#10
hagar Registered FALaholic #: 228 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 6,687	The best accuracy load at 100 yards would be 25 grains of Varget with a 60 grain Sierra hollow point or Hornady VMax bullet. The boat tail 68/69 grainers will beat it past 200 yards in the wind, but if your rifle does not shoot this load, something is wrong.

February 21, 2011, 00:08	#11
jefferyc22 Banned FALaholic #: 18245 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: PNW Posts: 3,447	An AR will always out shoot a FAL, most FALs shoot such bad PATTERNS you wouldn't even be able to tell if it liked a certain load. One nice thing about 5.56 is so many people shoot it that you should never have to pay for brass. Ranges are usually littered with spent poodle brass.You may be seeing bad groups due to excessive free bore as in your bullet seating depth may be to short. I would certainly up the bullet to a 62 gr pill and use an easier powder to meter such as BLC(2). Are you hand loading single stage or are you on a progressive? Last edited by jefferyc22; February 21, 2011 at 00:23.

February 21, 2011, 07:17	#13
ephv Registered FALaholic #: 4084 Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Georgia Posts: 2,122	Try new bullets- Wideners mil-spec. Great stuff. http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...d=7436&dir=278\|281\|727 __________________ ephv "In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity." (Opening sentence, Treaty of Paris, 1783, ending the Revolutionary War with Great Britain.) "“Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” (John Jay, First Supreme Court Chief Justice, one of the authors of The Federalist Papers, and signer of Treaty of Paris, 1783.)

February 21, 2011, 09:24	#15
Tuscan Raider Registered FALaholic #: 19668 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 2,938	You could try loading this: http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...hreadid=301455 __________________ "An eye for an eye makes us all blind." Ghandi "We, here in America, hold in our hands the hopes of the world, the fate of the coming years; and shame and disgrace will be ours if in our eyes the light of high resolve is dimmed, if we trail in the dust the golden hopes of men." Theodore Roosevelt Address at Carnegie Hall March 30, 1912

February 21, 2011, 09:53	#16
RottenII Registered FALaholic #: 24818 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New York Posts: 322	I like the Hornady 55fmj for general blasting. Much more accurate than any of the pulled bullets. I use TAC and have been pleased with the results. If you want to shoot nice little groups try the Nosler ballistic tips in 55gr. They shoot very well and you can buy them in the 250pk. __________________ "The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state".

February 22, 2011, 22:10	#17
gew98 Registered FALaholic #: 32830 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: away from taxation without representation , Kentucky !. Posts: 771	I have run across a couple 1/9 ( compromise twist ) AR's that would not print with 55 grainers. With 62.5's they perked right up...but I like the higher velocity 55 grainer..... those 3250fps FMJ's blow chucks all to hell. I've managed two coyotes with my A1 clone over the years and that little 55 grainerchunked them up good too. __________________ The vice of capitolism is it's unequal sharing of blessings. The Virtue of Socialism is it's equal sharing of MISERY. Winston Churchill 1) Culture builds upon the past 2) The past always tries to control the future. 3) Our future is becoming less free 4) To build free societies you must limit control of the past. All hail lord IMPOTUS and Darth Biden All hail.

March 05, 2011, 23:22	#18
acpat Registered FALaholic #: 61978 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Topeka kansas Posts: 260	play with the seating depth. Almost all guns have two sweet spots long and deep bullet seating depths. try different powders try different primers weigh cases trim them all to lenght you can play this game until you are 100yrs old ask me how I know lol The mag and feeding are the limits on seating depths. always watch cases for pressure warning sign. I err on the mild load side best thing is get a case flash trimmer. Holes in primer pockets are punched and will have a flash on one sideof the hole. This does not lend to good equal burn w/ flash. Look inside any case and this is visible burr on one side of the flash hole.

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