Loading dies for .223/5.56?

[Regal Beagal]

Folks,
I have over 2000 rounds of military brass in 5.56/.223 that I want to start reloading. What dies would you recommend or use? Would you use a full length or small base die set? I am also aware that the primers have been "crimped" what do I need to relieve the crimping? RB

[DJ]

I have a set of RCBS small base dies. I'm not sure that you need small base dies, though. I've loaded thousands of rounds with them and never had any issues.
As far as the primer crimps are concerned, RCBS makes a tool that works......but Dillon makes a tool that works very, very well. I bought a Dillon Super Swage tool, and I gotta say, its the best 90 bucks I've ever spent. You can run rings around the RCBS tool with it.

[TerryN]

I use regular RCBS FL dies; I've loaded and fired many, many thousand rounds of .223 in several ARs and bolt guns, and I've never needed a SB die.

The RCBS primer pocket swager set works acceptably well. It does require a bit of trial and error to adjust the amount of swage properly, and this is needed each time you change to a different headstamp of brass. The Dillon Super Swage 600 is the schitz, but rather spendy for only occassional use.

[ftierson]

What TerryN says...

You don't need Small Base dies and you'll only end up overworking the brass if you use them...

I've used one of the RCBS Primer Pocket Swage dies for decades with complete satisfaction...

Forrest

[1MOR]

Consider Lee dies. They are an outstanding value and even better if you shop around and get them when they are on sale.

The RCBS Primer Pocket Swage tool is highly recommended. Well, it works for me!

[Regal Beagal]

Thanks folks for the replies, I don't even ask questions on other boards anymore just because of the wealth of knowledge here on the files. I just thought of another question, I have heard of folks breaking their decapping rod on military brass because of the crimp issue. Is it worth getting a carbide rod/die set for this purpose or decap away until it breaks and then get a new rod? Thanks RB

[RottenII]

I've been using the RCBS X-dies. Work pretty well as I hate trimming and they seem to work as advertised (only trim once) . I started out with the Lee dies and never had any complaints with them either.

[DJ]

Originally posted by Regal Beagal
Thanks folks for the replies, I don't even ask questions on other boards anymore just because of the wealth of knowledge here on the files. I just thought of another question, I have heard of folks breaking their decapping rod on military brass because of the crimp issue. Is it worth getting a carbide rod/die set for this purpose or decap away until it breaks and then get a new rod? Thanks RB

I've never broken the entire decapping rod.......decapping pins is another story though. You can buy a pack of 5 decapping pins for 5 or 6 bucks.

[1MOR]

Lee makes a universal decapping die. If set up properly, the pin will slide up through the collett if a berdan primer is encountered. This is cheap insurance when decapping brass that has crimped primers.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=136543

[DYNOMIKE]

Myself I use REDDING & DILLON .223 die sets, and choose REDDING for most all my other cals along with a few RCBS sets... I sometimes use a REDDING Decap-only die that I have on hand as well...

Personally I prefer to remove the crimp rather then swage it but that may be just because it's what Iv'e always done..

Had both X-DIES and SMALL Base dies from RCBS but sold them both after hearing/reading that they may overwork the brass.. Not saying it's gospel so YMMV..

[ftierson]

Originally posted by 1MOR
Lee makes a universal decapping die. If set up properly, the pin will slide up through the collett if a berdan primer is encountered. This is cheap insurance when decapping brass that has crimped primers.

I, also, use the Lee decapping die and managed to break the 'unbreakable' decapping pin on a 9x19mmP berdan case (about the 6th case I was decapping in a batch of several thousand, of course, after I thought that I had already culled all the berdan ones). I called Lee and they sent me a replacement pin for free and a set of instructions for the die (which, of course, I hadn't read before using the die the first time). The instructions explain the simple way of adjusting the collet that holds the decapping pin so it works like it's designed to work and won't ever break in use. I had just assumed that the die came from Lee already adjusted, yet another demonstration of why assume begins with ass...

The Lee Decapping Die is a great item, and I have decapped many tens of thousands of cases since the first 'problem' with absolutely no problems, including many heavily crimped .30-06 and .308 military cases. I also purchased a couple of extra decapping rods, just in case. Now adjusted correctly, I doubt if I'll even need them...

A further quick comment on the RCBS Primer Pocket Swaging Die. This item is designed for the RCBS Rockchucker press, since it uses a cap that fits over the end of the ram to eject the cartridge off the primer pocket swage (which, itself, just snaps into the hed of the ram like a shellholder) when the pocket has been swaged. Thus, the length from the swage itself to the platform that the ram protrudes from when completely lowered is critically important so that the cap can actually force the cartridge case up off the swager when the ram bottoms out. While most presses use the same shellholders as RCBS and many use the same diameter ram, the distance that the ram protrudes from the press when lowered varies somewhat. The RCBS Swager Die will not work in a Lyman Orangecrusher/Crusher II press, for example, because of this difference. You'd have to make a cap that was the correct height for the Lyman presses, and the correct heat-treat for such an item would be important for long-term use.

Forrest

[7.62srbest]

I'ved used Pacific dies for years (M700 varmint special in .223 and mini 14 with no issues. Last summer I got a set of Lee dies and they seemed to do alright, too. Then I got a new AR this spring and only about half the shells resized with the Lee dies will chamber in the new AR. I got on my brand new set of RCBS X-dies and resized some .223 cases and all of them would chamber in the new rifle. I'll be using the X dies from now on for two reasons - 1st because they work for my new rifle and 2nd because they are supposed to virtually eliminate the need for trimming when used correctly.

[BUFF]

Lee makes a manual decapping punch and little anvil. One set for .22, another set for .30 caliber cases. Very cheap. Insert case into anvil base. Insert punch into case. Whack punch with hammer, mallet, rock, what have you. Then treat primer pocket if it was crimped.

I think I paid under $5.00 a set 25 years ago for mine. Just like the sign at McDonalds used to say, "Millions served!"

I have been using a set of standard RCBS dies for my .223/5.56 needs for almost 30 years now. Several Colt AR-15's and an M-16 as well as a Remington Model 7. I bought an upgrade kit that consists of a carbide expander ball and a replacement stem that holds the expander ball and decapping pin. Greatly reduces neck stretch and resizing upstroke effort. Not made by RCBS but by one of the companies that use red color die boxes. Also use one for .308/.30-06.

[moses]

I have Lee and RCBS dies, the Lee's work fine as do the RCBS dies. Sometimes Lee dies can be a little rough but work fine.
The Lee dies have a decapping pin that just pushes up and doesn't break. I have never broken a Lee decapping pin, I have broken many RCS pins, but RCBS will send you replacements free unless they have changed their policy. I have a couple small bags full of the RCBS pins that they have sent me.

The Dillon swager for the primer pocket is by far the best thing out there for removing the crimp, quick and easy to use too!!!!
Well worth the $76 I paid for it 8 years ago.
You will not regret getting it.

[zeke]

Depends. Do you have 2000 once fired brass cases that were fired in your rifle? or did you buy military surplus once fired cases? Does your rifle have a tight or loose chamber? What type of rifle are you reloading for?

With 2000 pieces of brass would highly recommend a Dillion swager, the RCBS works well , but is cumbersome for that number of cases.

For brass of unknown origin, a small base die can save alot of headaches.

[shlomo]

Small base dies are unnecessary. Like Terry, I have loaded and fired tens of thousands of rounds-- sized with a standard die-- of .223 in six different AR uppers, with not the first sign of a problem.

Small base will just work harden the brass faster, shortening case life.

[TerryN]

Originally posted by 1MOR
Lee makes a universal decapping die. If set up properly, the pin will slide up through the collett if a berdan primer is encountered. This is cheap insurance when decapping brass that has crimped primers.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=136543

The Lee Universal Decapper rocks! I deprime all of my brass with one of them (actually I have two - I inherited one), unless I'm loading on my Dillon.

Lee dies work well; I am not a fan of Lee dies in general, but they do work. I suppose my opinion is largely influenced by the fact that I started out with RCBS products, and I have had some bad experiences using some Lee products. I think Lee has some really good ideas that somehow lose something between the 'idea' stage, and the production stage. JMHO.

[jefferyc22]

Originally posted by 1MOR
Lee makes a universal decapping die. If set up properly, the pin will slide up through the collett if a berdan primer is encountered. This is cheap insurance when decapping brass that has crimped primers.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=136543

+1

[jefferyc22]

I am also looking to buy a FL die set to reload 5.56 for my M4 on a Dillon 550B. Anyone have recipes for "NATO spec" 62gr using mil brass and TAC or BLC(2)?

[Regal Beagal]

Thanks Folks!
Decided to give the Lees a try. I am a big fan of RCBS and Dillon dies but I thought for 13.95 I would give them a try. If they don't work out then off to Ebay and I'll order some RCBS dies... RB

[shlomo]

Regal,

If you haven't pulled the trigger on it yet, you may wanna reconsider. The one feature I find annoying and unsatisfactory with the Lee dies is the non-locking ring with the o-ring keeper in it. If it moves (and it will) you will have to re-adjust the die to correct depth, and will never feel confident anytime you screw the die in or out that it is repeatable.

For another ten bucks for the RCBS dies with locking rings, it ain't worth the time to dick around with it.

[DYNOMIKE]

Originally posted by shlomo
Regal,

If you haven't pulled the trigger on it yet, you may wanna reconsider. The one feature I find annoying and unsatisfactory with the Lee dies is the non-locking ring with the o-ring keeper in it. If it moves (and it will) you will have to re-adjust the die to correct depth, and will never feel confident anytime you screw the die in or out that it is repeatable.

For another ten bucks for the RCBS dies with locking rings, it ain't worth the time to dick around with it.

I agree with this, loading 500 rds of ammo and then finding out that the die moved and now you have 200 rds that won't chamber will make that $14.00 seem like a whole lot more when you have to re-do them all...

I do like the LEE factory crimp dies and have several of them.. For my reg die sets though I choose other brands, guess it just makes me feel better?
Dies will pretty much last forever if well maintained, trying to save a few $$ aint worth it to me..

[Gazz]

I agree with what has been said about the Lee o-ring "lock ring" - they WILL move. On the Lee dies that I still use, I have replaced the lock rings with ones from RCBS or other makers that have the set screw to lock them in place.

[Regal Beagal]

Hey Folks,
Thanks for the headsup...I did realize that when I ordered them. Not a big issue with me not having a locking ring. I've even had my locking rings move on me before on my RCBS and Dillon Dies, and it wasn't due to me not putting enough torque on the allen screw. If you get them in the threads just right they will ride the thread grooves. So, that's why once I have the right bullett length for that particular rifles barrel, I always put JB weld on it. Yes, this means that it becomes "for that rifle only" and "for that bullet only" but at least it doesn't move. Now if I decide to change bullets it is an issue but then I just get another set. I guess you could use red locktite too but its to runny for me....no need to gum up the whole works... RB

[moses]

Hmmm I never noticed the Lee O ring moving and I have loaded a lot of rounds with Lee's, maybe I am just lucky!!!
Where can it move anyway?

[ftierson]

Originally posted by moses
Hmmm I never noticed the Lee O ring moving and I have loaded a lot of rounds with Lee's, maybe I am just lucky!!!
Where can it move anyway?

Since the rubber o-ring tightens against the top of the press, it compresses somewhat when the die is being tightened against the top of the press and loosens somewhat when the case being resized is forced up into the sizing die...

Since I bottom the shell holder out against the bottom of the die when FL sizing, it really makes absolutely no difference whether the die is tight against the top of the press or not. It's the dimension between the shell holder and the base of the die that's important.

I do try to keep it tight and, like Johnny, have never had real problems with the die loosening up if tight to begin with. That's especially true of the 5.56x45mm, since it's so easy to resize the case.

Forrest

[Regal Beagal]

Ok,
Decapped and sized 500 .223 shells with my Lee sizing and decapping die and no hitches. I just got her where I wanted her, tightened the locking ring and no problems...I didn't even add the JB Weld. Thought I would see how she performed 1st before adding the JB. Now to trim and swag the primer pocket...etc, etc, etc.... I'm well on my way. RB

[hachik]

I don't know which particular primers you are using or how you are planning to seat them, but try a few first before you go to the trouble of swaging or trimming.
I always have to swage pockets on .30 cal, but generally find it unnecessary on .223. I use a Lee hand primer and LC brass from the 2000's.

[moses]

I need to swage 95% of my late 80's & early 90's 223 brass

[evan price]

I use the Lee universal decapping die, too, and managed to break it by having the turret indexed slightly off, then pulling the handle to show my 4-y-o son how the press works (facepalm). Sent it to Lee and had a new one back before the week was up!

It works like a charm to decap even the hardest military crimped brass.

I use the RCBS primer pocket swage set to swage the crimped primer pockets. Someone said something about the swager die not working on anything but RCBS presses- well, I suppose, but mine works good on the Lee, I just wiggle the case a couple times and it comes off the swage stud. I also made a steel plate for my Lee that fills the gap to use the RCBS collar to "auto eject" the swaged shell, but it really is one of those things that if I forget to grab it I don't bother with it.

I have a Lee 3-hole turret press I do my rifle on. I have a turret I call my "utility turret" which has the Universal Deprimer, RCBS swage die, and whichever Lee push-through sizer die I'm using today.

The Lee RGB die sets (if you already have a shell holder) are a great price and the dies work good. I load about everything with Lee dies with no problems, and I've never had a die "work loose" with the Lee O-ring nuts. I have a dedicated turret for EACH set of dies I load with; that means I lock them in tight and never unscrew them again! I use the Pro-1000 progressive for my pistol and .223 ammo, the turrets are the same as the turret press.

My usual routine for rifle brass is tumble it, sort it for military crimped primers or noncrimped commercial brass. Then sub-sort it to need trimmed or not need trimmed. I deprime everything that needs swaged and swage them. Then I trim to minimum length. Then those cases get a shot of spray lube (I like Lyman) and get set aside for the lube carrier to evaporate. The .223 go in the progressive, the .308 go in the turret.

I've got the Dillon case length gauges to check to make sure stuff is resized and trimmed right- were well worth the price!

[shlomo]

Originally posted by evan price
I've never had a die "work loose" with the Lee O-ring nuts. I have a dedicated turret for EACH set of dies I load with; that means I lock them in tight and never unscrew them again!

FWIW--I wasn't talking about the die working loose during use. It's the act of screwing it in and out of the press that spins the ring, in my experience.

I load rifle ammo on a single stage, and prefer the locking rings for the above reason.