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Old April 14, 2010, 12:10   #1
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7.62 SLAP

There seems to be very little info on this round so I'm going to post pics and eventually do a velocity/penetration test. Any input on this round appreciated.

For those that don't know:

-SLAP stands for Saboted Light Armor Penetrator (SLAP), M948 (United States)

-produce by Winchester for use in stellite lined M60 machine guns

-is one of the few true tungsten AP rounds produced and is second in "hardness" to DU rounds.










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Old April 14, 2010, 12:30   #2
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Correct me if I'm wrong, But aren't these babys rare and expensive? Like 30 bucks a pop.
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Old April 14, 2010, 12:34   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by pns112500
Correct me if I'm wrong, But aren't these babys rare and expensive? Like 30 bucks a pop.
Uh, yes...........hence the lack of info
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Old April 14, 2010, 12:44   #4
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"One recent development is the reported adoption by the Norwegian Army of a discarding sabot version of the 7.62x51mm NATO round for sniper use. The projectile is understood to be smaller than 5.56mm calibre, and if the comparable 7.62x51mm SLAP (see below) and Remington Accelerator rounds can be used as a guide, muzzle velocity will be in the region of 4,000 fps. Despite this, the 3,000 fps of current military rifle rounds looks as if it will remain the infantry standard for years to come."


" It should also be noted that the U.S. Military has developed new armor piercing rounds in .50 BMG and 7.62x51mm that will defeat any of these body armors with extreme ease. They are called “Sabot Light Armor Penetrating” or SLAP cartridges. These consist of a relatively sharp pointed tungsten carbide “dart” of a smaller diameter than the weapon's bore encased in a plastic sabot to bring it up to caliber. The projectile is fired at very high velocities and it sheds the sabot on the way to the target. As an example, the .50 BMG SLAP round uses a .415 gr. projectile fired at a speed of 4000 fps (78 ft. from muzzle). It will penetrate approximately .750 ( ¾) inches of high-hardness steel armor at a range of 1500 yards."
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Old April 14, 2010, 13:26   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by keiser
Does the US Gov consider these as illegal for civilians? Never seen any for sale.
That's affirm. Send them to me for legal disposal.
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Old April 14, 2010, 13:48   #6
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I have one round of the .50cal SLAP-T, the tracer version, in my collection. Looks like it would be a pisser. Picked it up at a gun show in Richmond, VA 10 plus years ago for $20, or so.
Member Ammolab probably has the drop dead skinny on this stuff.

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Old April 14, 2010, 14:21   #7
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I posted a link here not too long ago where a US military sniper in the sand pit took out 3 bad guys hiding behind a brick wall with one shot from a 50 BMG sniper rifle shooting SLAP rounds. It may even match the 7mm Failsafe round!
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Old April 14, 2010, 17:07   #8
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There is only one 7.62 round more rare in civilian hands and that is the Raufoss rounds in 7.62 NATO, and YES some were made. They are not as fun as the 50 caliber ones but they are way more accurate than the sabot rounds shown here.
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Old April 14, 2010, 21:27   #9
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Quote:
I posted a link here not too long ago where a US military sniper in the sand pit took out 3 bad guys hiding behind a brick wall with one shot from a 50 BMG sniper rifle shooting SLAP rounds. It may even match the 7mm Failsafe round!
There was a Sniper Special program on the History Channel a couple of weeks ago and they interviewed a Marine who took out a 3 man RPG team through a brick/mortar wall with one shot. He was using a .50 BMG Barrett shooting Raufoss ammo.

This ammo has an explosive charge that blasts a penetrator through whatever it hits. The TV show had them shooting a Raufoss round through a concrete brick wall and then into ballistic gelatin. The penetrator went through the wall and then 24 inches of gelatin with no problem. Concrete shrapnel penetrated up to about 12 inches into the gelatin. Awsome freaking round.


The Raufoss Mk.211 - is a .50 caliber BMG (12.7x99mm NATO) multipurpose anti-material projectile originally developed by the Norwegian company NAMMO Raufoss AS under the model name NM140 MP. It is commonly referred to as simply multipurpose or Raufoss. The "Mk.211" name comes from the nomenclature "Mk.211 Mod 0" used by the U.S. military for this round.

The multipurpose name is based on the projectile having an armor-piercing (tungsten core), an explosive, and an incendiary component, thus making it capable of penetrating lightly armored targets and causing damage to personnel inside the target after penetration. It is a suitable round for engaging helicopters, aircraft and lightly armored vehicles, as well as unarmored vehicles, and it has the capability of igniting jet fuel. The Mk.211 has about the same destructive power as a standard 20 mm round against such targets.[1]

The Mk.211 has become very popular as .50 cal sniper ammunition, for use in the Barrett M82 rifle, as well as other .50 BMG rifles. It is also often used in heavy machine guns, for example the M2 Browning. Due to its popularity several U.S. arms manufacturers produce the round under license from NAMMO Raufoss AS. The Multipurpose concept developed by Raufoss is unique in the way that, instead of using a mechanical fuse, it uses a pyrotechnical detonation train to ensure proper detonation of the explosive and incendiary components. This round is usually identified by a green over white paint tip mark. A rarer occurrence of a green–over red–over white paint mark scheme indicate the tracer version of this round. These tracer versions are usually only seen on cartridge feed belts in naval applications. The headstamp on the casing can also help to identify the round as Raufoss and some common headstamps include, but not limited to: HXP89, WCC94, and FN91; or HXP, WCC, LC, or FN with different two-digit numbers as production year suffixes.

There has been much debate over whether the Mk.211 projectile is legal to use against personnel, or if it is strictly anti-materiel ammunition. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has sought to have the ammunition banned, due to concern over the incendiary and explosive components and their effect on personnel. Under the St. Petersburg Declaration of 1868 the "military or naval" use of explosive or incendiary projectiles with a mass of under 400 grams is forbidden.

Trials conducted by Forsvarets Forskningsinstitutt[2] (Norwegian Defence Research Establishment) has concluded that the ammunition most likely does not have an unlawful effect if unintentionally used against personnel, as the round will have penetrated the body and exited on the other side before the fuze of the weapon triggers the incendiary and explosive components of the round. Hitting a person the round will detonate about 50% of the time; if the target is wearing body armor a higher detonation frequency is to be expected (as shown by the ICRC tests[3] carried out in 1999). If detonated, the round will have a significant fragmentation and incendiary effect in a 30 degree cone behind the struck target, and this might affect others standing in the vicinity. The distance the round will travel from ignition to detonation is 30–40 cm, so if the target is hit at very specific angles the round may still be inside the target at the time of detonation.

Most nations using the round train their soldiers not to deploy the projectile against personnel, but in the heat of battle such regulations are easily overlooked. Also, many parties currently fielding the ammunition have no such regulations.

The official stance of the Norwegian Government is that the 12.7 mm MP round should not be used against personnel, but an exception has been made for snipers using the round - due to the practical limitations of snipers having to change the type of ammunition used when switching between hardened and soft targets. It is being exported strictly in an anti-materiel capacity. The current U.S. policy is that the ammunition is suitable for use against all targets.


Here is a link to the rounds maker: http://www.nammo.com
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Old April 14, 2010, 21:56   #10
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Thanks for the hijack, most of us are aware of raufuss.
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Old April 14, 2010, 22:35   #11
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Actually the stellite lined M60 barrel is not rated for the SLAP, but it is m240 safe as well as GAU/2 or M-134 Mini gun. When I was in AFSOC back in the day, they were plentiful and the report on them then was that the 7.62 was comparable to a std .50 AP, and the .50 SLAP was closer to a std 20mm in performance. 4000 RPM of these is not something y9u want to be around. I will ask around some of the old ordnance guys and see what I caan get for info.
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Old April 14, 2010, 22:54   #12
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I understand the SLAP rounds are no threat to barrels (bores) but they may be incompatible with the feed ramps and Muzzle Breaks in some weapons (M60s and some Ma Duce with muzzle devices).

Neat little round but too expensive for general issue to riflemen... You know I say that and you see GIs ripple-firing Javelin anti tank missiles at a "suspected sniper position" in Iraq. What does that missile barrage cost?

It's only tax payer money...I would do the same thing in their boots!

Jeff: Test them on some good 1/2" to 3/4" steel @ 100 or 200 yards. Include some Ball and M61 AP as well.
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Old April 15, 2010, 04:03   #13
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I would definately be interested in seeing what these rounds can do. I have also heard they are not very accurate, but would be interested to see what they can do that way as well.
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Old April 15, 2010, 15:02   #14
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In Iraq, I saw belts of 7.62 SLAP being loaded (1500-rounds at a time) onto helos (BH's and Little Birds) to feed mini-guns. This was in Spring 2008, when they were taking the fight to the Mahdi Army in Sadr City.

That has got to totally ruin your day, when the Mini's open up on ya with SLAP at 3000 RPM!

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Old April 17, 2010, 08:56   #15
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I have two rounds of .50 SLAP, one with a red sabot and one with yellow. I don't recall exactly where I got them, but I thought they looked cool enough to sit on my shelf. Those penetrators are pretty sharp!!
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Old May 25, 2010, 11:44   #16
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I wonder what the accuracy is for these 7.62 x 51 "SLAP" rounds is. Years back, I think it was Remington marketed a 30:06 round with a .22 bullet in a discarding sabot. It was called the "Accelerator". Performance was awesome, about equal to a .220 Swift. I think mv was around 4000-4200 fps. Problem was they weren't very accurate. They are out of production now, but I always thought a .22 out of a 30:06 rifle at .220 Swift velocities was cool. Not AP, but devastating on small game. I don't think they ever made them in .308 Win.

Anyone know what accuracy is for these "SLAP" 7.62 x 51 rounds?
I guess from a mini-gun, accuracy isn't critical, but from a rifle, I think it is, especially in a combat situation. Still, I wouldn't mind a FAL mag full of them, but not at $30 a pop. $600 for one mag load is too steep for my wallet.
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Old May 25, 2010, 11:51   #17
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For "accuracy" they make MATCH ammo.... SLAP is for shooting at an armored vehicle or bunker or building with a machine gun.

SLAP and accuracy are something that just are not in the design mix.
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Old May 27, 2010, 08:57   #18
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Here is a photo I took a few years ago. I was using an STG-58 and was firing on one of my gong target set to 500 meters. The gong is made out of "wear-plate" a very hard plate used to cover pot holes in roads as a temporary repair. It has defeated every caliber round I have fire at it from 50-600 yards.The plate is 1/2" thick and weighs about 60 pounds.
A friend had a couple of SLAP rounds and after finding the ammo's zero, I was able to hit the 18" target. A shower of sparks could be seen as it struck the plate.
The SLAP round went right through the plate causing a very nice round hole with very little cratering of the steel on both sides of the plate. We could not find the penetrater in the berm.
Cell phone photo,its all I had.
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Old May 27, 2010, 09:25   #19
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Sweden uses a cartridge based on the SLAP round. Now one Swedish source claims it's made by Winchester in USA but the cases have standard Swedish headstamps. Maybe they order it that way though. They say the projectile has a core of (3.4 grams) 52 grains of tungsten with a diameter of 4.81 mm, which sounds about the same as the SLAP. It's held by aluminum and plastic. Muzzle velocity is 1340 meters per second or 4396 feet per second.
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Old May 27, 2010, 10:16   #20
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Originally posted by StarPD:

"It was called the "Accelerator". Performance was awesome, about equal to a .220 Swift. I think mv was around 4000-4200 fps. Problem was they weren't very accurate. They are out of production now, but I always thought a .22 out of a 30:06 rifle at .220 Swift velocities was cool. Not AP, but devastating on small game. I don't think they ever made them in .308 Win."

Yes, they were made in .308 and .30-30 Winchester. I still have a few boxes left of the .308. Never tried them in the .30-30.

The accuracy varied from rifle to rifle. They shot better in a 20 inch Model 7 of mine than in a M-700 Varmint heavy barrel rig, in spite of the much bigger scope on the varmint rig.
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Old May 27, 2010, 11:13   #21
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Interesting info, Buff.
Thanks for the correction.

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Old May 27, 2010, 12:08   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rapidrob
Here is a photo I took a few years ago. I was using an STG-58 and was firing on one of my gong target set to 500 meters. The gong is made out of "wear-plate" a very hard plate used to cover pot holes in roads as a temporary repair. It has defeated every caliber round I have fire at it from 50-600 yards.The plate is 1/2" thick and weighs about 60 pounds.
A friend had a couple of SLAP rounds and after finding the ammo's zero, I was able to hit the 18" target. A shower of sparks could be seen as it struck the plate.
The SLAP round went right through the plate causing a very nice round hole with very little cratering of the steel on both sides of the plate. We could not find the penetrater in the berm.
Cell phone photo,its all I had.
Rapidrob, have you fired 308 AP at this plate? How did the result compare with the SLAP?
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Old May 29, 2010, 16:02   #23
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Quote:
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Rapidrob, have you fired 308 AP at this plate? How did the result compare with the SLAP?
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I would be very curious also........M2AP,7.62AP and SLAP

Thanks for the pic and info Rob.
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Old May 30, 2010, 06:16   #24
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There was a Sniper Special program on the History Channel a couple of weeks ago and they interviewed a Marine who took out a 3 man RPG team through a brick/mortar wall with one shot. He was using a .50 BMG Barrett shooting Raufoss ammo.

This ammo has an explosive charge that blasts a penetrator through whatever it hits. The TV show had them shooting a Raufoss round through a concrete brick wall and then into ballistic gelatin. The penetrator went through the wall and then 24 inches of gelatin with no problem. Concrete shrapnel penetrated up to about 12 inches into the gelatin. Awsome freaking round.


The Raufoss Mk.211 - is a .50 caliber BMG (12.7x99mm NATO) multipurpose anti-material projectile originally developed by the Norwegian company NAMMO Raufoss AS under the model name NM140 MP. It is commonly referred to as simply multipurpose or Raufoss. The "Mk.211" name comes from the nomenclature "Mk.211 Mod 0" used by the U.S. military for this round.

The multipurpose name is based on the projectile having an armor-piercing (tungsten core), an explosive, and an incendiary component, thus making it capable of penetrating lightly armored targets and causing damage to personnel inside the target after penetration. It is a suitable round for engaging helicopters, aircraft and lightly armored vehicles, as well as unarmored vehicles, and it has the capability of igniting jet fuel. The Mk.211 has about the same destructive power as a standard 20 mm round against such targets.[1]

The Mk.211 has become very popular as .50 cal sniper ammunition, for use in the Barrett M82 rifle, as well as other .50 BMG rifles. It is also often used in heavy machine guns, for example the M2 Browning. Due to its popularity several U.S. arms manufacturers produce the round under license from NAMMO Raufoss AS. The Multipurpose concept developed by Raufoss is unique in the way that, instead of using a mechanical fuse, it uses a pyrotechnical detonation train to ensure proper detonation of the explosive and incendiary components. This round is usually identified by a green over white paint tip mark. A rarer occurrence of a green–over red–over white paint mark scheme indicate the tracer version of this round. These tracer versions are usually only seen on cartridge feed belts in naval applications. The headstamp on the casing can also help to identify the round as Raufoss and some common headstamps include, but not limited to: HXP89, WCC94, and FN91; or HXP, WCC, LC, or FN with different two-digit numbers as production year suffixes.

There has been much debate over whether the Mk.211 projectile is legal to use against personnel, or if it is strictly anti-materiel ammunition. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has sought to have the ammunition banned, due to concern over the incendiary and explosive components and their effect on personnel. Under the St. Petersburg Declaration of 1868 the "military or naval" use of explosive or incendiary projectiles with a mass of under 400 grams is forbidden.

Trials conducted by Forsvarets Forskningsinstitutt[2] (Norwegian Defence Research Establishment) has concluded that the ammunition most likely does not have an unlawful effect if unintentionally used against personnel, as the round will have penetrated the body and exited on the other side before the fuze of the weapon triggers the incendiary and explosive components of the round. Hitting a person the round will detonate about 50% of the time; if the target is wearing body armor a higher detonation frequency is to be expected (as shown by the ICRC tests[3] carried out in 1999). If detonated, the round will have a significant fragmentation and incendiary effect in a 30 degree cone behind the struck target, and this might affect others standing in the vicinity. The distance the round will travel from ignition to detonation is 30–40 cm, so if the target is hit at very specific angles the round may still be inside the target at the time of detonation.

Most nations using the round train their soldiers not to deploy the projectile against personnel, but in the heat of battle such regulations are easily overlooked. Also, many parties currently fielding the ammunition have no such regulations.

The official stance of the Norwegian Government is that the 12.7 mm MP round should not be used against personnel, but an exception has been made for snipers using the round - due to the practical limitations of snipers having to change the type of ammunition used when switching between hardened and soft targets. It is being exported strictly in an anti-materiel capacity. The current U.S. policy is that the ammunition is suitable for use against all targets.


Here is a link to the rounds maker: http://www.nammo.com
Where do you get these?
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Old May 30, 2010, 08:08   #25
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Where do you get these?
You can't is the easy answer, the harder answer is that you can get some on gunbroker that was stolen from the US military, or just outright faked by painting ball ammo.
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Old June 10, 2010, 08:53   #26
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Does anyone know what the bullet weights are for the U.S. 7.62x51 SLAP ammunition is?
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Old June 10, 2010, 18:10   #27
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Does anyone know what the bullet weights are for the U.S. 7.62x51 SLAP ammunition is?
Uh......yeah, thats why I posted the above pic of the projo on the scale.....52.5 grains
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Old June 10, 2010, 19:18   #28
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Originally posted by panzer
Actually the stellite lined M60 barrel is not rated for the SLAP, but it is m240 safe as well as GAU/2 or M-134 Mini gun. When I was in AFSOC back in the day, they were plentiful and the report on them then was that the 7.62 was comparable to a std .50 AP, and the .50 SLAP was closer to a std 20mm in performance. 4000 RPM of these is not something y9u want to be around. I will ask around some of the old ordnance guys and see what I caan get for info.
Minigun shooting $30 a round ammo x 4000 rounds a minute = $120k a minute. Holy jeebus. Better hope it works well.
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Old June 10, 2010, 20:29   #29
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Minigun shooting $30 a round ammo x 4000 rounds a minute = $120k a minute. Holy jeebus. Better hope it works well.
Exactly, that's probably why it's not used in 7.62 much or at all anymore. A little bit more money and you could mount a GAU
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Old June 10, 2010, 21:30   #30
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Army Times did an article on the 7.62 & .50cal SLAP rounds back in `78 or `79. Seems the first 50 SLAP`s were good for 3/4" plate@45deg angle from 750 yds. IIRC the 7.62 had a 1/2"@45deg at 500 yds. Not bad.......

I used to shoot a lot of the `06 accelerators.......usually poked holes about 12-15" higher than 180gr SBTHP at 100yds. A good group was about 9"
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Old June 13, 2010, 10:18   #31
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Thanks guys.

I saw an unsubstantiated report of a 48 grain bullet as well as the 52.5, but now suspect it was a mistake if the only information available is for the 52.5.

Thanks, again.
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Old June 22, 2010, 13:29   #32
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First off the $30 a round is what civilians are paying for it if they can find some. Military pays just a couple of cents more a round than regular AP 308. And YES, I have a 'few' rounds.

Performance on M113 APC's is it will go thru the alum armor like a hot knife thru butter.

As to 50 caliber Raufoss ammo. There are four types showing up on the market.

1) Stolen American GI
2) Surplus to need that 'contractors' were given for testing as they were not required to turn it back in. IE Barrett and a couple of others like McMillan.
3) Foreign Surplus-Norway, Finland and a couple of others.
4) Counterfeit AP painted to look like Raufoss. This shows up on Gunbroker alot.

It is NOT that accurate, but it IS hell on light armored vehicles. It laughs at Level 4+ personal body armor!
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Old June 22, 2010, 14:21   #33
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Originally posted by TnHawk-45
First off the $30 a round is what civilians are paying for it if they can find some. Military pays just a couple of cents more a round than regular AP 308. And YES, I have a 'few' rounds.

!
SLAP and or Raufoss rounds cost "a couple of cents more a round than regular AP 308"??????????

You need to look at a few contract awards for ammo procurement.....

There is more than a couple of cents between AP and enhanced performance ammunition (Raufoss).

There is even MORE than a few cents between steel core m61 NATO 7.62AP (maybe 30cents/rd?) and the new Tungsten Core M993 7.62 NATO AP (over $2.00/rd!).

Compare a Gary Indiana Streetwalker to one of Charile Sheen's rentals..............Performance does not come CHEAP!

Last edited by ammolab; June 22, 2010 at 14:29.
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Old June 22, 2010, 14:53   #34
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I have bought ammo for my unit and YES I agree Raufoss is MUCH more than regular ammo. The 'slap' ammo in this thread is NO where near the $30 a round that was quoted in this thread. While it is more than regular AP it is not that much higher.

Now as to 'how' I know this is I am a retired LtCol that commanded the anti terr unit here in Tn and we used it ALL! I have even seen some of the Raufoss rounds that was sent to Ronnie Barrett for testing also. That is how I knew about the Raufoss he has that was not requested back from the military.

As to present day 'contract prices', it is anything goes with the war going on and the fools we have in DC.
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Old June 22, 2010, 16:19   #35
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http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/i...62mm_ammo.html
Shows the costs of some AP ammo, sadly doesn't have SLAP...
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Old June 22, 2010, 19:45   #36
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Originally posted by TnHawk-45
I have bought ammo for my unit and YES I agree Raufoss is MUCH more than regular ammo. The 'slap' ammo in this thread is NO where near the $30 a round that was quoted in this thread. While it is more than regular AP it is not that much higher.

Now as to 'how' I know this is I am a retired LtCol that commanded the anti terr unit here in Tn and we used it ALL! I have even seen some of the Raufoss rounds that was sent to Ronnie Barrett for testing also. That is how I knew about the Raufoss he has that was not requested back from the military.

As to present day 'contract prices', it is anything goes with the war going on and the fools we have in DC.
Roger that... GI cost on SLAP was not $30.00 for sure.

Just what was your cost on M61AP vs 7.62 NATO SLAP? Just a "couple of pennies" difference is quite a shock to me.
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Old June 23, 2010, 15:45   #37
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It was 'about' $1 more a round. Can't say the exact amount, but it was NOT over $1 difference, so to me considering how much we spent on other things I considered it pennies. LOL

I just looked at what we are spending for AP now and that is RIDICULOUS compared to seven years ago when I retired!!!!
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Old December 03, 2012, 19:03   #38
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Who wants to see this round versus 3/8" AR500 at 200m?
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Old December 03, 2012, 19:19   #39
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Who wants to see this round versus 3/8" AR500 at 200m?
Silly question.

Of course we do.
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Old December 03, 2012, 19:38   #40
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Who wants to see this round versus 3/8" AR500 at 200m?
Fire for effect!
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Old December 08, 2012, 10:52   #41
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I saw some 7.62 slap and slap tracers, linked, for $10.00 per round.
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Old December 08, 2012, 11:48   #42
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I saw some 7.62 slap and slap tracers, linked, for $10.00 per round.
Recently?
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Old December 09, 2012, 09:49   #43
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Bout 2 years ago.
Got some
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Old December 09, 2012, 10:55   #44
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Old December 09, 2012, 16:11   #45
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Bout 2 years ago.
Got some
You should have bought some.
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Old December 09, 2012, 16:13   #46
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Make sure you shoot that thru a braked barrel for maximum "effect"
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Old December 11, 2012, 10:50   #47
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Old December 11, 2012, 18:16   #48
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I will also throw some M2AP and M14 API loaded hot in .300 Win Mag also
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