SOT?

litsnsirn · April 06, 2010, 18:04

I understand the concept of a SOT being able to make a post sample with a le demo letter. How does a major manufacturer or an engineering/R&D firm work on projects that may be nothing other than engineering excercises for future concepts, that may never see the light of day? I can't imagine walking into a police department and asking for a demo letter for something based off of CAD drawings for something that isn't prototyped. Does someone like Colt have an open ended letter from the ATF? Is there some kind of a step up from a SOT that is allowed to make samples without a letter?

As a note, I am not trying to do build or manufacture anything, I have neither the skill, tools, or patience. I am not trying to do anything illegal. I have just always been curious about this.

yarro · April 06, 2010, 20:37

You only need a demo letter on department letterhead requesting a demo by a SOT or class III dealer to transfer a post sample to them. A Class II mfg can make post samples all day long with no letter. Once made they can not transfer them unless the SOT or dealer has a valid demo request. They can also import engineering/R&D samples that need to be destroyed or surrendered when the R&D is complete. The ATFE may determine that the sample you wish to import has no R&D value if it is too old a design. The class II mfg must also be registered with the State Dept as either doing R&D only (no sales period) or as a mfg of restricted export weapons (whether you will export them or not.)

-yarro

litsnsirn · April 06, 2010, 22:16

I guess I am confusing a Class 3, SOT, and a Class 2 manufacturer?

snowhawk jockey · April 08, 2010, 00:30

I will be corrected, but:

C3 is Dealer and needs Agency demo letter/Purchase Order for receiving/transferring post sample Fullauto only. He can order all the transferables, Premay samples/SBR/SBS/AOW/DD/silencers he wants without a demo letter.

C2 is MFG of all the above and must register their products with the ATF when built and can only transfer Fullauto to Agency/foreign entity, or to C3 with demo letter .

SOT is Special Occupancy Tax for a C2 MFG of buzzguns, SBR/SBS/AOW and/or silencers.

Then there is the C(8?) also pays SOT for MFG of BIG Destructive Devices, Artillery, Shells and other stuff that go BOOOM!

Where is Kev, Lee or MrPlumber to straighten this out?

SLR-5000 · January 28, 2011, 21:26

C8 is importer.
C10 is DD big boom

Prototype Services · January 31, 2011, 21:13

Is there one for strictly R&D?

**OMR_RDTandE** · February 02, 2011, 06:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Prototype Services
Is there one for strictly R&D?

No, type 07 FFL with SOT paid is proper approach. Can do everything a dealer can, with SOT paid can do everything a Class 3 can, plus can also manufacture.

Cheaper than keeping a lawyer on retainer.

Omar

ds762 · February 25, 2011, 11:02

don't forget that an 07 FFL is subject to the ITAR tax.

**OMR_RDTandE** · February 25, 2011, 12:26

Quote:

Originally posted by ds762
don't forget that an 07 FFL is subject to the ITAR tax.

Only if you're planning to sell the weapons you manufacture in international trade. If you're just doing R&D, and not exporting either complete weapons or a technical data package, International Trade in Arms Regulation (ITAR) shouldn't apply.

Omar

April 06, 2010, 18:04	#1
litsnsirn Registered FALaholic #: 487 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: NE Illinois Posts: 149	SOT? I understand the concept of a SOT being able to make a post sample with a le demo letter. How does a major manufacturer or an engineering/R&D firm work on projects that may be nothing other than engineering excercises for future concepts, that may never see the light of day? I can't imagine walking into a police department and asking for a demo letter for something based off of CAD drawings for something that isn't prototyped. Does someone like Colt have an open ended letter from the ATF? Is there some kind of a step up from a SOT that is allowed to make samples without a letter? As a note, I am not trying to do build or manufacture anything, I have neither the skill, tools, or patience. I am not trying to do anything illegal. I have just always been curious about this. __________________ "You know, I think it was James Joyce who said that a genius makes no mistakes, that his errors are on purpose and they become the portholes of discovery, that's the kind of thing you say when you do something real stupid." Red Green

April 06, 2010, 20:37	#2
yarro Registered FALaholic #: 28278 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 858	You only need a demo letter on department letterhead requesting a demo by a SOT or class III dealer to transfer a post sample to them. A Class II mfg can make post samples all day long with no letter. Once made they can not transfer them unless the SOT or dealer has a valid demo request. They can also import engineering/R&D samples that need to be destroyed or surrendered when the R&D is complete. The ATFE may determine that the sample you wish to import has no R&D value if it is too old a design. The class II mfg must also be registered with the State Dept as either doing R&D only (no sales period) or as a mfg of restricted export weapons (whether you will export them or not.) -yarro __________________ Most people will give up freedoms for the perception of safety until they are no longer free or safe.

April 06, 2010, 22:16	#3
litsnsirn Registered FALaholic #: 487 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: NE Illinois Posts: 149	I guess I am confusing a Class 3, SOT, and a Class 2 manufacturer? __________________ "You know, I think it was James Joyce who said that a genius makes no mistakes, that his errors are on purpose and they become the portholes of discovery, that's the kind of thing you say when you do something real stupid." Red Green

April 08, 2010, 00:30	#4
snowhawk jockey Registered FALaholic #: 14239 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: central oregon Posts: 1,198	I will be corrected, but: C3 is Dealer and needs Agency demo letter/Purchase Order for receiving/transferring post sample Fullauto only. He can order all the transferables, Premay samples/SBR/SBS/AOW/DD/silencers he wants without a demo letter. C2 is MFG of all the above and must register their products with the ATF when built and can only transfer Fullauto to Agency/foreign entity, or to C3 with demo letter . SOT is Special Occupancy Tax for a C2 MFG of buzzguns, SBR/SBS/AOW and/or silencers. Then there is the C(8?) also pays SOT for MFG of BIG Destructive Devices, Artillery, Shells and other stuff that go BOOOM! Where is Kev, Lee or MrPlumber to straighten this out? __________________ When the moment of truth arrives, KNOW that YOU are already DEAD! Then ACT, that you may save the lives of those around you. If you are lucky, or well prepared, you too, may survive to tell about it.

January 31, 2011, 21:13	#6
Prototype Services Registered FALaholic #: 3935 Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Gainesville Georgia 30501 Posts: 2,067	Is there one for strictly R&D? __________________ ''Life's tough.....it's even tougher if you're stupid.'' ~ John Wayne

January 28, 2011, 21:26	#5
SLR-5000 pat@SAFLithgow.com FALaholic #: 9674 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Rathdrum, North Idaho Posts: 1,887	C8 is importer. C10 is DD big boom

February 25, 2011, 11:02	#8
ds762 Registered FALaholic #: 41500 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: MO Posts: 10	don't forget that an 07 FFL is subject to the ITAR tax.

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