Aww Crap! What did I just do to myself?

brownknees · January 21, 2010, 13:47

This has been an idea kind of sort of bubbling in the back of my tiny mind for several years & today it's set to become a reality.
*teaser*

Let me fill in a bit of background info.
I'm a rifle shooter, if i need something dealt with up close & personal like I've been suggesting a grenade for rears, based on the thoery that if you couldn't stop whatever with a rifle at 200yds+ then you got no chance at 25yds- with a pistol.

The last serious pistol I fired was a BrowningHP in 9mm issued by HMG with instructions to:
"Please try REALLY hard to not fire it inside the aircraft!"
That was 35 years ago & to be fair I haven't fired a pistol inside an aircraft to this day.

But I broke down & bought a cap & ball .44 cal revolver & it should be arriving any day now. Its an Uberti-made reproduction of a Remington new army model in .44 cal & has the steel, not the brass frame. It is marked as a "Cimarron" model btw ifthis has any effect on its quality or so on. I believe that all the Cimarron's were made by someone else & marketed by the company.

I fired a friends Ruger Old Army years ago & had a blast, so it was about time anyway I guess.

So help, guys.
Tips, tricks daft things to avoid & so on if you please.
Assume I know absolutely diddly-squat & you'll be pretty close to the mark.

I have been doing a lot or reading on the subject, but as usual most of the things written are contradicted by the next thing written. AAaaarggghhhhh

elgato · January 21, 2010, 16:09

Welcome to the world of Cap and Ball Revolvers!

I own a pietta target model 1858 Remy in 44 Army.

Read the manual. Find out what sized ball they recomend. Mine likes .457 diameter projectiles. I have a friend that casts them and they are 142 grainers.

My favorite load consists of 25 grains GOEX FFFg Black Powder with one scoup (I believe it is a 10cc lee dipper) of Walmart Brand Farina (Cream of Wheat) on top of it; I then put one wonder-wad over the cream of wheat. I load each cylinder individually with powder, farina and the wonder wad before I seat the round ball. Ensure that the round ball is as concentric as possible and seat to the same depth.

Once this is done I use CCI brand #11 caps. Check to see what Uberti recomends. Mine likes 11s as long as I pinch them before seating them.

Things to buy:

Nipple wrench, spare parts set (check dixie gunworks)
Clean with hot soapy water.
I completely strip the frame to clean the internals.

Have fun!

C

jugrunner · January 21, 2010, 16:53

put grease in the ends of the cylinders after loading ... ask me how I know !!! ...

**W.E.G.** · January 21, 2010, 16:58

Now you need to go out and get fitted for your civil war uniform.

Brian in MN · January 21, 2010, 18:08

You are going to love all the smoke!

**MAINER** · January 21, 2010, 18:22

1, Can of Crisco......note; see jugrunner

2, Cake decorator........note; to hold Crisco

3, Wood jig........note; holds pistol whilst loading same

4, Powder measure/dispenser.

5, Go-Jo soap........note; for you, not pistol

6, Old towels/rags........note; lots of 'em

7, Tackle or tool box........note; holds nipple picks, wrenches, screwdrivers, hammer, old toothbrushes and other small accouterments.

8, 5 Gal bucket.........note; for carrying targets, staple gun and other large accouterments to the shooting range, then soaking pistol in hot, soapy water returning from range.

9, Oil.........note; apply liberally, taking care not to become one.

10, Have fun!

Otis Treekiller · January 21, 2010, 18:24

Quote:

Originally posted by W.E.G.
Now you need to go out and get fitted for your civil war uniform.

Hint: It should be gray.

jugrunner · January 21, 2010, 18:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Otis Treekiller

Hint: It should be gray.

roger that ... is there any other color and if there is do you want to fight about it ? ...

brownknees · January 21, 2010, 18:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Otis Treekiller

Hint: It should be gray.

Wot?
not without a brass frame surely?

Thanks guys. I knew I'd get good tips from here.

One of the things that seems to be confusing is grease over the balls, as opposed to a greased wad under the balls. I know the reasoning behind the trick, but which has worked best for you guys?

Second dumb question....
Modern lubes & so on or tradditional? I do know enough to avoid petroleum-based lubes, but was wondering about the "wunder" products in a tube.

elbo · January 21, 2010, 19:33

The best thing the grease does is keep the fouling soft.

The best hint I can think of:
When the pistol gets hard to cock with the hammer, use your off hand to help rotate the cylinder. Then when it's empty that time take the cylinder out and hose it and the pin with WD40 and wipe it down. Be sure the nipples are clear then smear grease on the pin and reassemble.
Go some more.

The pistol doesn't have to be brass with the gray uniform.
Most Confederate pistols were taken off of dead Yankees, all you could carry.

**MAINER** · January 21, 2010, 19:45

I don't claim expert status in the shooting of BP pistols. My shooting has been at a range and just loading and firing the thing. OK, plinking!
For one thing, I don't think Crisco would really be a good idea if you intend to carry the pistol holstered in warm weather. I loaded all the powder I could that allowed a ball to seat flush with the cylinder, so the Crisco was a real good idea there and economical to boot.

With elgato's method, I don't think you would experience "flashover' so it would be safe to carry and shoot. It seems that it does sacrifice powder capacity and make for a reduced power load.

The only modern lube I have is "Borebutter". I love this stuff. Has a real sexy smell, like Hoppe's does, but different. Works great keeping the fouling clear in the 50 Cal Hawken.

Shooting these things gives ya a real appreciation for the shooters of old that didn't have the choices we do.

BTW; You might want to take a downwind position at the range. You wouldn't believe all the cursing and dirty stares after I cut loose a cylinder full of 40 grain BP loads from the Colt 3rd Model Dragoon one day.

jugrunner · January 21, 2010, 20:44

wonder lube is kick ass ... if you can still buy it !!

elgato · January 21, 2010, 23:17

My cap and ball load is for target work. I shoot at 25 yards duelling style. (one handed) I found that the grease indeed works for preventing flash overs but I had better results in the accuracy department with the wonder wads.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product...oducts_id=3561
They are pre-lubed and really cut down on the fouling in my exprience. They also work great for my Martini MK-IV.

I usually bring a canteen cup and a thermos of near boiling soapy hot water to clean the bore between shots (if the rules/times allow) I am eventually going to build myself a loading caddy. They are extremely helpful when I borrow them.
As for an Oil I use G-96...

Dixie Gunworks is your friend...

Just be consistant on how you load your piece.... slow is smooth and smooth is fast!

elbo · January 22, 2010, 06:24

Quote:

Originally posted by MAINER

Shooting these things gives ya a real appreciation for the shooters of old that didn't have the choices we do.

It'll make you realize why they throw the pistol when it's empty.
How'd you like to reload on a horse?

hawk962 · January 22, 2010, 07:47

That should be a Fine revolver. I've been shooting one similar for about 15 years.
No problems other than maintenance stuff. It likes .451 round balls, and #10 caps fit a little better on mine. Keeps me from having to squeeze them. Nothing sucks worse than drawing down on your target and having a misfire only to find out that your cap fell off.
Think about getting a spare cylinder, makes for a little faster shooting.
Also, a powderflask with the spring loaded spout is a good addition. The repro revolver model comes with a 24gr tube, but they can be interchanged with any size available.
Dixie Gun works is a great site, and Track of the Wolf. Both of them will do a good job getting you really hooked on BP.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Catego...Num=FLASK-COLT

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default...ath=22_100_353

Natural Lube/Bore Butter is still available. Midway has it for $5.39 a tube.
Check your Walmarts soon if you have some close by. They used to mark everything down that was related to BP around mid January. I've picked up the tubes for 2.00 each.

Here's the Midway link to the Bore Butter tube for a picture reference.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=444343

Otis and Jug, I'm with you! There is no other color.

Maybe we should ask for a BP specific section.

Enjoy that new revolver!

**MAINER** · January 22, 2010, 09:06

Quote:

Originally posted by elbo

It'll make you realize why they throw the pistol when it's empty.
How'd you like to reload on a horse?

J. Wales says "Ya should jes get yerself some more pistols"

**W.E.G.** · January 22, 2010, 09:22

Remember, those pistols were common when the manual of arms was:
rifle
Pistol
SWORD

With a strong emphasis on sword.

SOUTH

north

**W.E.G.** · January 22, 2010, 09:33

Quote:

Originally posted by brownknees
Uberti-made reproduction of a Remington new army model in .44 cal & has the steel, not the brass frame. It is marked as a "Cimarron" model btw

or

brownknees · January 22, 2010, 10:54

That's the one!

Here's a couple of the pics I was sent by the seller.

As for wether I wear blue or grey, that was decided a few years ago so I wouldn't offend the GP irregulars.

I wonder why the thought of me in "tighty whighties" & wellies is so important to them

"That, to you Suh, is Mr. Trory Colonialist Opressor!"

gunseller · January 22, 2010, 13:33

You are well on your way to a new habbit. The 1858 New model was Frank Jame's choice. I aquired my first 1858 in 1967. Been shooting them ever sense. The only reason to put any thing on top of the ball after you load it is if you wish to make a mess. If the ball shaves a ring of lead when you load it it has made a tight seal that needs nothing else to stop a chain fire. Read how the people loaded C&B revolvers in the 1860s and 1870s. You will stop putting crap on top of the ball after you load. elgato has the way to load right except for using 11 caps. You should use a cap that fits tight without pinching them to help them stay on the nipple. I was using pinched 11 caps once and had 3 fire. Got to watch the spark go under each cap just before the chamber fired. No damage to anything but was interesting. Just remember the balls should set solid on the powder, wad and filler(if using any). Have fun.
Steve

elbo · January 22, 2010, 14:41

Quote:

Originally posted by MAINER

J. Wales says "Ya should jes get yerself some more pistols"

I'll jes whistle 'Dixie'.
Got five of the things, not a remington among 'em.

**skeeterbay** · January 22, 2010, 14:49

I use to play with back powder guns years ago. I once took a break from smokeless powder guns. Doing all my hunting and shooting with BP guns for over a year. Big game, birds, varmints, rabbits, you name it. It was fun and I enjoyed it for awhile. In later years I got one of the early Ruger Old Army revolvers. Nice gun and the most accurate BP revolver I have ever owned.

The best tip I can offer you is to take great care in cleaning your revolver. I have seen many that were rusted for lack of good cleaning. I use to field strip mine, to include removing the grips and nipples every time I fired it. Then I would clean them in a basin with hot soapy water. Scrubbing everything with a tooth brush and bore brush. Once I had it totally clean I would dry it as best I could with a cloth. Then place it on a cookie sheet in the wife's oven on very low temp. When I took it out of the oven I would wipe it down with oil while it was still warm. I never had problems with rust.

Also I found that the hottest loads were not always the most accurate loads. I always used regular black powder. So I don't know how these new BP substitutes are.

One other thing worth mentioning is storage of a loaded BP revolver. I had times I took mine hunting and didn't find the need to fire it. Rather than shooting it and having to clean it, knowing I was going back out in the next day or two. I would just bring it back with a fully loaded cly. I know guys that would store theirs with the caps off the nipples when loaded. I always left the caps on mine for two reasons. One was fear of drawing moisture in through the uncapped nipples. The other reason was fear of static electricity possibly setting off a chamber. Back in those days I didn't have a safe and usually stored a revolver in a sock drawer. Also as I am sure you are aware of, always make sure your hammer is resting in the hammer recess in between the nipples. Don't trust a half cock for a safety and don't carry one with a hammer resting on the cap. One drop or a good bump of the hammer could set her off.

Skeeter!

**okiefarmer** · January 22, 2010, 15:17

Hawk962 states his likes .451, but most Ubertis like .454 better, less chance of flashover. Ubertii seems to have a bit bigger cylinders than the Piettas. My lone Uberti 44 likes the .454 better anyway, YMMV, but ya want to be sure and shave a good ring of lead when loading.

I've been into BP for a coupla years now too, taking a break from smokeless like someone mentioned above. I think it's a hoot. If you like the '58 Remi Army, you will love the '51 Navy in 36 caliber. I bought both of the LEE conical moulds for the 44s and the 36s I have in BP. A little tougher to load unless you have a loading stand and load the cylinder out of the pistol. These moulds are just like the ROA mould and have a reduced lower driving band allowing it to seat into the cylinder enough to allow rotation under the loading ram. A tough job for my fat fingers, but I still prefer it over the balls. No need for filler as 30 grains under the conical brings it just almost flush with the cylinder, and the other plus is I don't worry about flashover with the greasegrooves filled with lube. I make my own out of close to a 50/50 mix of beeswax and LEE Alox. I have added a little Crisco to some to make it easier to handle cold. I just cast up a bunch, then sit down and watch FOX snooze and grease them by hand. If I'm in a really shitty mood, I switch over to PMSNBC and to see if Rachel Madcow is having her period and calilng everyone names.

Have fun, it's (BP) is almost as addictive as sex

hawk962 · January 22, 2010, 18:53

okiefarmer,
You are right. Mine is a Pietta. It shaves a good ring of lead when I load it. A good friend has a uberti and one of the rugers that is no longer made. He uses the .454 in both of them for the same reason you mentioned.

And you are also right about the addiction!

brownknees · January 23, 2010, 19:19

Based on what you guys posted I went out & got some basic necessities (.454 balls, FFFg powder, #10 caps & lubed wads.) I figure I'll get the other bits'n pieces after the pistol actually arrives as it seems that the accessories may well fit better if I get ones that actually fit.

I found 2 kinds of bore butter, a yellow labelled one & green labelled one. What the heck is the difference? I read the labels & they were word-for-word identical except that one was bio-degradable. Is this something that matters to me, or is it a good/bad thing?

Last irritating newbie question (for now)

There is a chart somewhere showing the volumes of BP different sized fired centerfire brass measures, I found it last time I looked on the net, but can't find it this time round. Can someone give me a link, or copy of the table?

Thanks.

BK.

**bykerhd** · January 23, 2010, 21:53

The old Dixie catalogs are a treasure trove of information for black powder information. I think one of those catalogs showed a cut-off brass cartridge case with a wire soldered on(around ?) the rim for a handle.
Custom made and CHEAP.

**okiefarmer** · January 23, 2010, 23:10

There are several other sites, one I frequent also, that are also a mountain of info for the BP habit. One called TheHighRoad (google it, not sure of exact address, and www.thefiringline.com is good also. They have a category dedicated to the BP shooters. I haven't been to the other site very often (ya only have time for so much screwin' off on the puter ya know), but understand it is tops for BP info also. I believe thehighroad is where I found the chart to which you refer, but prolly couldn't find it now without a lot of time, but if'n ya registered there and asked, someone would point it out fer sure.

I thought one of the bore butters were just apple scented, hence the green color. I could be wrong. I have both, and both are good stuff.

**garyd1961** · January 25, 2010, 18:19

Someone broke into my house a couple of years ago and stole my 1858 Remington. I haven't replaced it yet but after reading this I think I will. I have a 1860 navy unfinished kit pistol I got in a deal and its missing the wedge and wedge spring. Where can I get these parts?
EDIT-it's stamped CVA

**bykerhd** · January 25, 2010, 18:39

Dixie should have parts for that pistol garyd1961.

SmokeEater2 · January 26, 2010, 20:33

Quote:

Originally posted by brownknees

Wot?
not without a brass frame surely?
Thanks guys. I knew I'd get good tips from here.

One of the things that seems to be confusing is grease over the balls, as opposed to a greased wad under the balls. I know the reasoning behind the trick, but which has worked best for you guys?

Second dumb question....
Modern lubes & so on or tradditional? I do know enough to avoid petroleum-based lubes, but was wondering about the "wunder" products in a tube.

Yep, Always keep yer' balls greased. The greased wads work fine but a can of Crisco will last through a lot of shootin' and it's cheaper. Rendered 'possum fat works too but it smells funny.

And always remember,Moosemilk (Ballistol & water) is your friend.

jugrunner · January 26, 2010, 20:48

brownknees ... have fun with your new toy ... remember the term "flashover" so's you don't give yourself a funny lookin' haircut ... find some damn "Wonder Lube" and forget all that other Chit ... jus' rub the whole thing down with it and forget it !! ... ain't even got to clean it ... but I would anyway ...

you've got the strongest of the old BP pistol designs ... the 1860 looks sexier but they r weak and shoot loose if you actually shoot 'em ... the '58 Remington is King of the cap & ball ...

use real Black Powder not the fake Chit ... remember "flashover" so's you don't give yourself a funny lookin' haircut ... Oh ... said that already ...

it's actually another sickness ... so get ready !!

I ain't buyin' another one, I don't care what you guys say or do !!!!!!!

**garyd1961** · January 26, 2010, 21:12

Thanks bykerhd, I will probably finish this gun (1860 Navy) but I really like the 1858 Remington best.

**bykerhd** · January 27, 2010, 07:44

Don't knock the Colt replicas garyd1961.
I put a couple of those kits together years ago.
They'll work just fine with a bit of tweaking. (all kits need a bit of that)
Every bit as much fun, maybe more

, than the Remington replicas.
Finish it. Shoot it !

brownknees · January 27, 2010, 08:10

Quote:

use real Black Powder not the fake Chit ... remember "flashover" so's you don't give yourself a funny lookin' haircut ... Oh ... said that already ...

Thanks for the tip about flashover, I already got a funny-looking haircut though.

In MD living in a building you have to use the fake chit, its a fire safety thing fer the chilluns y'unnerstan.

brownknees · January 27, 2010, 11:12

*UPDATED* Yeah it's here.

Arrived this morning, looks darn near brand new.

The only signs of any kind of wear I can see are the bluing at the front of the rammer & the cylinder front where it butts up against the frame are slightly polished off.

I swear this was played with, but little, if ever fired. There is zero trace & I mean none of actual firing! The nipples, for example have 100% of the original finish on the face, the backs of the cylinders look spotlessly factory new & so on.

I just have to pick up one or two things from the get 'r done lists & its off to the range to try her out.

I do have one question.
Is there a trick to make the front sight post show up better when aiming? It seems too slim to let you get a good sight picture? should I spit n lick, smoke it black or what.

Range report to follow.

**bykerhd** · January 27, 2010, 15:50

You could throw a dab of paint, or swipe some of the wife's nail polish to make the front sight stand out a bit.
A few shots and I doubt you'll see much except shades of gray.
But, that is blackpowder for you.

elbo · January 27, 2010, 16:55

Tell me what year it was made.

brownknees · January 27, 2010, 18:33

You sure the table is for Uberti made ones?
My number (on the bottom of the PG?) is A505XX.

It is marked as being a "Cimarron, Frederick, Texas" brand import on the top barrel flat, if that helps any, but the letter prefix is just "A"??

elbo · January 27, 2010, 19:58

Italian proof mark not serial No. Probably on the right side of the frame.
Two letters in a rectangle.

brownknees · January 28, 2010, 09:43

Oops, gotcha.
"AZ" so its a 1990?

elbo · January 29, 2010, 06:14

1990

Is the front sight screwed in or dovetailed?

brownknees · January 29, 2010, 11:10

There's a dovetail in the barrel flat.
Is this a good thing? you seem to be looking for a specific set of info.

elbo · January 29, 2010, 11:48

Original Remingtons, Piettas, and old Ubertis were screwed in. I don't know when Uberti started with the dove tail, but I had thought yours would have been threaded. I think the Piettas are still threaded.

On a side note original '51 Navys and old Uberties had the front sight threaded.
Now Uberti and Pietta both just stake them in a shallow hole. At least with the dovetail it won't launch during a firing session.

brownknees · January 29, 2010, 11:51

Gotcha, thanks again.
I'm still figuring this thing out, having a blast though & I haven't even fired it yet.

yarro · January 29, 2010, 21:08

Be sure to take out the nipples before you fire it the first time and put anti-sieze on the threads. Take them out after every firing session when you clean and put anti-sieze on the threads when assembling. I use Bore Butter when shooting black. I lightly coat the cylinder pin too. Nothing when using Geox Pinnacle. If you use Pinnacle or one of the ones of the same composition, make sure there is no oil in the barrel or cylinders and it will not build up residue. Still need to clean as the fouling does attract moisture. If you forget to clean the oil out, it will make a gummy mess.

The last pair that I bought had weak mainsprings and would blow the caps off the nipples and tie up the guns. Replacing the mainsprings resolved the issue.

-yarro

docjfg · January 31, 2010, 10:05

My first "real" handgun was a Rem 1858. What fun in '71! This thread reminded me of a picture, a nagging picture, but where? Ah! I remembered and found it in Sixguns, pg 283, a target with a chewed black center shot by Keith and a friend in 1931 using Dragoons, each firing six shots. The load was 50grs FFFG with greased felt wads and a note that both guns had "very hard trigger pulls." Maybe that explains the second, smaller hole in the black opening up the group. That Elmer, bless his wonderful heart...!

brownknees · January 31, 2010, 14:48

Made it to the range, yeah

20 degrees & snow 6" deep but that the hay, the quack says I need lots of light exercise so I left the rifles at home.

2 caps, I don't know if it's the same 2 caps, consistently misfire the first time round, but fire with the second hammer hit. Next time I'll add a white marker pencil to the kit so I can figure out if I have bad nipples or whatever.

Pistol is a shooter, nice trigger & will group really nicely, if about 3" low @ 15 yds. I may need to drop the front sight a bit after I get a load I really like.

Yes that is a skunk on my head BTW

SmokeEater2 · February 01, 2010, 20:33

How the hell did ya' train that skunk to squat on yer noggin like that?!

Ya' greased his balls didn't you?

brownknees · February 01, 2010, 21:13

Actually......

I greased his

SmokeEater2 · February 02, 2010, 07:00

So, You bringin' the hat to the pool too? That oughta' confuse Fugwit.

January 21, 2010, 16:53	#3
jugrunner Registered FALaholic #: 19911 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 4,499	put grease in the ends of the cylinders after loading ... ask me how I know !!! ... __________________ ... ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ... _____________________________________________ "Remember man as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, so you shall be. Prepare for death and follow me." _____________________________________________ one of the proud "unwashed" ...

January 21, 2010, 16:58	#4
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,109	Now you need to go out and get fitted for your civil war uniform. __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

January 21, 2010, 18:08	#5
Brian in MN Registered FALaholic #: 289 Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 4,927	You are going to love all the smoke! __________________ Kalashnikov: The most successful point and click interface in the world.

January 21, 2010, 18:22	#6
MAINER Old Fart Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 18465 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Maine Posts: 6,354	1, Can of Crisco......note; see jugrunner 2, Cake decorator........note; to hold Crisco 3, Wood jig........note; holds pistol whilst loading same 4, Powder measure/dispenser. 5, Go-Jo soap........note; for you, not pistol 6, Old towels/rags........note; lots of 'em 7, Tackle or tool box........note; holds nipple picks, wrenches, screwdrivers, hammer, old toothbrushes and other small accouterments. 8, 5 Gal bucket.........note; for carrying targets, staple gun and other large accouterments to the shooting range, then soaking pistol in hot, soapy water returning from range. 9, Oil.........note; apply liberally, taking care not to become one. 10, Have fun! __________________ Joe Biden for President.

January 21, 2010, 20:44	#12
jugrunner Registered FALaholic #: 19911 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 4,499	wonder lube is kick ass ... if you can still buy it !! __________________ ... ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ... _____________________________________________ "Remember man as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, so you shall be. Prepare for death and follow me." _____________________________________________ one of the proud "unwashed" ...

January 21, 2010, 13:47	#1
brownknees Registered FALaholic #: 14917 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: mid atlantic Posts: 12,015	Aww Crap! What did I just do to myself? This has been an idea kind of sort of bubbling in the back of my tiny mind for several years & today it's set to become a reality. teaser Let me fill in a bit of background info. I'm a rifle shooter, if i need something dealt with up close & personal like I've been suggesting a grenade for rears, based on the thoery that if you couldn't stop whatever with a rifle at 200yds+ then you got no chance at 25yds- with a pistol. The last serious pistol I fired was a BrowningHP in 9mm issued by HMG with instructions to: "Please try REALLY hard to not fire it inside the aircraft!" That was 35 years ago & to be fair I haven't fired a pistol inside an aircraft to this day. But I broke down & bought a cap & ball .44 cal revolver & it should be arriving any day now. Its an Uberti-made reproduction of a Remington new army model in .44 cal & has the steel, not the brass frame. It is marked as a "Cimarron" model btw ifthis has any effect on its quality or so on. I believe that all the Cimarron's were made by someone else & marketed by the company. I fired a friends Ruger Old Army years ago & had a blast, so it was about time anyway I guess. So help, guys. Tips, tricks daft things to avoid & so on if you please. Assume I know absolutely diddly-squat & you'll be pretty close to the mark. I have been doing a lot or reading on the subject, but as usual most of the things written are contradicted by the next thing written. AAaaarggghhhhh Last edited by brownknees; January 21, 2010 at 15:58.

January 21, 2010, 16:09	#2
elgato Registered FALaholic #: 49533 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Colton NY Posts: 30	Welcome to the world of Cap and Ball Revolvers! I own a pietta target model 1858 Remy in 44 Army. Read the manual. Find out what sized ball they recomend. Mine likes .457 diameter projectiles. I have a friend that casts them and they are 142 grainers. My favorite load consists of 25 grains GOEX FFFg Black Powder with one scoup (I believe it is a 10cc lee dipper) of Walmart Brand Farina (Cream of Wheat) on top of it; I then put one wonder-wad over the cream of wheat. I load each cylinder individually with powder, farina and the wonder wad before I seat the round ball. Ensure that the round ball is as concentric as possible and seat to the same depth. Once this is done I use CCI brand #11 caps. Check to see what Uberti recomends. Mine likes 11s as long as I pinch them before seating them. Things to buy: Nipple wrench, spare parts set (check dixie gunworks) Clean with hot soapy water. I completely strip the frame to clean the internals. Have fun! C

January 21, 2010, 19:33	#10
elbo Registered FALaholic #: 8362 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: va Posts: 2,803	The best thing the grease does is keep the fouling soft. The best hint I can think of: When the pistol gets hard to cock with the hammer, use your off hand to help rotate the cylinder. Then when it's empty that time take the cylinder out and hose it and the pin with WD40 and wipe it down. Be sure the nipples are clear then smear grease on the pin and reassemble. Go some more. The pistol doesn't have to be brass with the gray uniform. Most Confederate pistols were taken off of dead Yankees, all you could carry. __________________ Keep your trust in God; Your government has failed you miserably. The Lord Gives Me Grace and the Devil Gives Me Style

January 21, 2010, 19:45	#11
MAINER Old Fart Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 18465 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Maine Posts: 6,354	I don't claim expert status in the shooting of BP pistols. My shooting has been at a range and just loading and firing the thing. OK, plinking! For one thing, I don't think Crisco would really be a good idea if you intend to carry the pistol holstered in warm weather. I loaded all the powder I could that allowed a ball to seat flush with the cylinder, so the Crisco was a real good idea there and economical to boot. With elgato's method, I don't think you would experience "flashover' so it would be safe to carry and shoot. It seems that it does sacrifice powder capacity and make for a reduced power load. The only modern lube I have is "Borebutter". I love this stuff. Has a real sexy smell, like Hoppe's does, but different. Works great keeping the fouling clear in the 50 Cal Hawken. Shooting these things gives ya a real appreciation for the shooters of old that didn't have the choices we do. BTW; You might want to take a downwind position at the range. You wouldn't believe all the cursing and dirty stares after I cut loose a cylinder full of 40 grain BP loads from the Colt 3rd Model Dragoon one day. __________________ Joe Biden for President.

January 21, 2010, 23:17	#13
elgato Registered FALaholic #: 49533 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Colton NY Posts: 30	My cap and ball load is for target work. I shoot at 25 yards duelling style. (one handed) I found that the grease indeed works for preventing flash overs but I had better results in the accuracy department with the wonder wads. http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product...oducts_id=3561 They are pre-lubed and really cut down on the fouling in my exprience. They also work great for my Martini MK-IV. I usually bring a canteen cup and a thermos of near boiling soapy hot water to clean the bore between shots (if the rules/times allow) I am eventually going to build myself a loading caddy. They are extremely helpful when I borrow them. As for an Oil I use G-96... Dixie Gunworks is your friend... Just be consistant on how you load your piece.... slow is smooth and smooth is fast!

January 22, 2010, 07:47	#15
hawk962 Registered FALaholic #: 9621 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 935	That should be a Fine revolver. I've been shooting one similar for about 15 years. No problems other than maintenance stuff. It likes .451 round balls, and #10 caps fit a little better on mine. Keeps me from having to squeeze them. Nothing sucks worse than drawing down on your target and having a misfire only to find out that your cap fell off. Think about getting a spare cylinder, makes for a little faster shooting. Also, a powderflask with the spring loaded spout is a good addition. The repro revolver model comes with a 24gr tube, but they can be interchanged with any size available. Dixie Gun works is a great site, and Track of the Wolf. Both of them will do a good job getting you really hooked on BP. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Catego...Num=FLASK-COLT http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default...ath=22_100_353 Natural Lube/Bore Butter is still available. Midway has it for $5.39 a tube. Check your Walmarts soon if you have some close by. They used to mark everything down that was related to BP around mid January. I've picked up the tubes for 2.00 each. Here's the Midway link to the Bore Butter tube for a picture reference. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=444343 Otis and Jug, I'm with you! There is no other color. Maybe we should ask for a BP specific section. Enjoy that new revolver!

January 22, 2010, 09:22	#17
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,109	Remember, those pistols were common when the manual of arms was: rifle Pistol SWORD With a strong emphasis on sword. SOUTH north __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

January 22, 2010, 10:54	#19
brownknees Registered FALaholic #: 14917 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: mid atlantic Posts: 12,015	That's the one! Here's a couple of the pics I was sent by the seller. As for wether I wear blue or grey, that was decided a few years ago so I wouldn't offend the GP irregulars. I wonder why the thought of me in "tighty whighties" & wellies is so important to them "That, to you Suh, is Mr. Trory Colonialist Opressor!"

January 22, 2010, 13:33	#20
gunseller Registered FALaholic #: 10120 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,460	You are well on your way to a new habbit. The 1858 New model was Frank Jame's choice. I aquired my first 1858 in 1967. Been shooting them ever sense. The only reason to put any thing on top of the ball after you load it is if you wish to make a mess. If the ball shaves a ring of lead when you load it it has made a tight seal that needs nothing else to stop a chain fire. Read how the people loaded C&B revolvers in the 1860s and 1870s. You will stop putting crap on top of the ball after you load. elgato has the way to load right except for using 11 caps. You should use a cap that fits tight without pinching them to help them stay on the nipple. I was using pinched 11 caps once and had 3 fire. Got to watch the spark go under each cap just before the chamber fired. No damage to anything but was interesting. Just remember the balls should set solid on the powder, wad and filler(if using any). Have fun. Steve

January 22, 2010, 14:49	#22
skeeterbay Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 20461 Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,773	I use to play with back powder guns years ago. I once took a break from smokeless powder guns. Doing all my hunting and shooting with BP guns for over a year. Big game, birds, varmints, rabbits, you name it. It was fun and I enjoyed it for awhile. In later years I got one of the early Ruger Old Army revolvers. Nice gun and the most accurate BP revolver I have ever owned. The best tip I can offer you is to take great care in cleaning your revolver. I have seen many that were rusted for lack of good cleaning. I use to field strip mine, to include removing the grips and nipples every time I fired it. Then I would clean them in a basin with hot soapy water. Scrubbing everything with a tooth brush and bore brush. Once I had it totally clean I would dry it as best I could with a cloth. Then place it on a cookie sheet in the wife's oven on very low temp. When I took it out of the oven I would wipe it down with oil while it was still warm. I never had problems with rust. Also I found that the hottest loads were not always the most accurate loads. I always used regular black powder. So I don't know how these new BP substitutes are. One other thing worth mentioning is storage of a loaded BP revolver. I had times I took mine hunting and didn't find the need to fire it. Rather than shooting it and having to clean it, knowing I was going back out in the next day or two. I would just bring it back with a fully loaded cly. I know guys that would store theirs with the caps off the nipples when loaded. I always left the caps on mine for two reasons. One was fear of drawing moisture in through the uncapped nipples. The other reason was fear of static electricity possibly setting off a chamber. Back in those days I didn't have a safe and usually stored a revolver in a sock drawer. Also as I am sure you are aware of, always make sure your hammer is resting in the hammer recess in between the nipples. Don't trust a half cock for a safety and don't carry one with a hammer resting on the cap. One drop or a good bump of the hammer could set her off. Skeeter! __________________ 'S Rioghal 'Mo Dhream Ard Choille!

January 22, 2010, 15:17	#23
okiefarmer Veteran Member Gold Contributor FALaholic #: 3248 Join Date: May 2001 Location: northern Oklahoma/green country Posts: 1,329	Hawk962 states his likes .451, but most Ubertis like .454 better, less chance of flashover. Ubertii seems to have a bit bigger cylinders than the Piettas. My lone Uberti 44 likes the .454 better anyway, YMMV, but ya want to be sure and shave a good ring of lead when loading. I've been into BP for a coupla years now too, taking a break from smokeless like someone mentioned above. I think it's a hoot. If you like the '58 Remi Army, you will love the '51 Navy in 36 caliber. I bought both of the LEE conical moulds for the 44s and the 36s I have in BP. A little tougher to load unless you have a loading stand and load the cylinder out of the pistol. These moulds are just like the ROA mould and have a reduced lower driving band allowing it to seat into the cylinder enough to allow rotation under the loading ram. A tough job for my fat fingers, but I still prefer it over the balls. No need for filler as 30 grains under the conical brings it just almost flush with the cylinder, and the other plus is I don't worry about flashover with the greasegrooves filled with lube. I make my own out of close to a 50/50 mix of beeswax and LEE Alox. I have added a little Crisco to some to make it easier to handle cold. I just cast up a bunch, then sit down and watch FOX snooze and grease them by hand. If I'm in a really shitty mood, I switch over to PMSNBC and to see if Rachel Madcow is having her period and calilng everyone names. Have fun, it's (BP) is almost as addictive as sex Last edited by okiefarmer; January 22, 2010 at 21:28.

January 22, 2010, 18:53	#24
hawk962 Registered FALaholic #: 9621 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 935	okiefarmer, You are right. Mine is a Pietta. It shaves a good ring of lead when I load it. A good friend has a uberti and one of the rugers that is no longer made. He uses the .454 in both of them for the same reason you mentioned. And you are also right about the addiction!

January 23, 2010, 19:19	#25
brownknees Registered FALaholic #: 14917 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: mid atlantic Posts: 12,015	Based on what you guys posted I went out & got some basic necessities (.454 balls, FFFg powder, #10 caps & lubed wads.) I figure I'll get the other bits'n pieces after the pistol actually arrives as it seems that the accessories may well fit better if I get ones that actually fit. I found 2 kinds of bore butter, a yellow labelled one & green labelled one. What the heck is the difference? I read the labels & they were word-for-word identical except that one was bio-degradable. Is this something that matters to me, or is it a good/bad thing? Last irritating newbie question (for now) There is a chart somewhere showing the volumes of BP different sized fired centerfire brass measures, I found it last time I looked on the net, but can't find it this time round. Can someone give me a link, or copy of the table? Thanks. BK.

January 23, 2010, 21:53	#26
bykerhd Dinosaur Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 2798 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington Vermont area Posts: 13,262	The old Dixie catalogs are a treasure trove of information for black powder information. I think one of those catalogs showed a cut-off brass cartridge case with a wire soldered on(around ?) the rim for a handle. Custom made and CHEAP.

January 23, 2010, 23:10	#27
okiefarmer Veteran Member Gold Contributor FALaholic #: 3248 Join Date: May 2001 Location: northern Oklahoma/green country Posts: 1,329	There are several other sites, one I frequent also, that are also a mountain of info for the BP habit. One called TheHighRoad (google it, not sure of exact address, and www.thefiringline.com is good also. They have a category dedicated to the BP shooters. I haven't been to the other site very often (ya only have time for so much screwin' off on the puter ya know), but understand it is tops for BP info also. I believe thehighroad is where I found the chart to which you refer, but prolly couldn't find it now without a lot of time, but if'n ya registered there and asked, someone would point it out fer sure. I thought one of the bore butters were just apple scented, hence the green color. I could be wrong. I have both, and both are good stuff.

January 25, 2010, 18:19	#28
garyd1961 Curio & Relic Contributor Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 39373 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NC Posts: 2,762	Someone broke into my house a couple of years ago and stole my 1858 Remington. I haven't replaced it yet but after reading this I think I will. I have a 1860 navy unfinished kit pistol I got in a deal and its missing the wedge and wedge spring. Where can I get these parts? EDIT-it's stamped CVA __________________ One nation under God.

January 25, 2010, 18:39	#29
bykerhd Dinosaur Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 2798 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington Vermont area Posts: 13,262	Dixie should have parts for that pistol garyd1961.

January 26, 2010, 20:48	#31
jugrunner Registered FALaholic #: 19911 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 4,499	brownknees ... have fun with your new toy ... remember the term "flashover" so's you don't give yourself a funny lookin' haircut ... find some damn "Wonder Lube" and forget all that other Chit ... jus' rub the whole thing down with it and forget it !! ... ain't even got to clean it ... but I would anyway ... you've got the strongest of the old BP pistol designs ... the 1860 looks sexier but they r weak and shoot loose if you actually shoot 'em ... the '58 Remington is King of the cap & ball ... use real Black Powder not the fake Chit ... remember "flashover" so's you don't give yourself a funny lookin' haircut ... Oh ... said that already ... it's actually another sickness ... so get ready !! I ain't buyin' another one, I don't care what you guys say or do !!!!!!! __________________ ... ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ... _____________________________________________ "Remember man as you pass by, as you are now, so once was I. As I am now, so you shall be. Prepare for death and follow me." _____________________________________________ one of the proud "unwashed" ...

January 26, 2010, 21:12	#32
garyd1961 Curio & Relic Contributor Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 39373 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NC Posts: 2,762	Thanks bykerhd, I will probably finish this gun (1860 Navy) but I really like the 1858 Remington best. __________________ One nation under God.

January 27, 2010, 07:44	#33
bykerhd Dinosaur Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 2798 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington Vermont area Posts: 13,262	Don't knock the Colt replicas garyd1961. I put a couple of those kits together years ago. They'll work just fine with a bit of tweaking. (all kits need a bit of that) Every bit as much fun, maybe more , than the Remington replicas. Finish it. Shoot it !

January 27, 2010, 11:12	#35
brownknees Registered FALaholic #: 14917 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: mid atlantic Posts: 12,015	UPDATED Yeah it's here. Arrived this morning, looks darn near brand new. The only signs of any kind of wear I can see are the bluing at the front of the rammer & the cylinder front where it butts up against the frame are slightly polished off. I swear this was played with, but little, if ever fired. There is zero trace & I mean none of actual firing! The nipples, for example have 100% of the original finish on the face, the backs of the cylinders look spotlessly factory new & so on. I just have to pick up one or two things from the get 'r done lists & its off to the range to try her out. I do have one question. Is there a trick to make the front sight post show up better when aiming? It seems too slim to let you get a good sight picture? should I spit n lick, smoke it black or what. Range report to follow.

January 27, 2010, 15:50	#36
bykerhd Dinosaur Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 2798 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Burlington Vermont area Posts: 13,262	You could throw a dab of paint, or swipe some of the wife's nail polish to make the front sight stand out a bit. A few shots and I doubt you'll see much except shades of gray. But, that is blackpowder for you.

January 27, 2010, 18:33	#38
brownknees Registered FALaholic #: 14917 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: mid atlantic Posts: 12,015	You sure the table is for Uberti made ones? My number (on the bottom of the PG?) is A505XX. It is marked as being a "Cimarron, Frederick, Texas" brand import on the top barrel flat, if that helps any, but the letter prefix is just "A"??

January 27, 2010, 19:58	#39
elbo Registered FALaholic #: 8362 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: va Posts: 2,803	Italian proof mark not serial No. Probably on the right side of the frame. Two letters in a rectangle. __________________ Keep your trust in God; Your government has failed you miserably. The Lord Gives Me Grace and the Devil Gives Me Style

January 28, 2010, 09:43	#40
brownknees Registered FALaholic #: 14917 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: mid atlantic Posts: 12,015	Oops, gotcha. "AZ" so its a 1990?

January 29, 2010, 06:14	#41
elbo Registered FALaholic #: 8362 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: va Posts: 2,803	1990 Is the front sight screwed in or dovetailed? __________________ Keep your trust in God; Your government has failed you miserably. The Lord Gives Me Grace and the Devil Gives Me Style

January 29, 2010, 11:10	#42
brownknees Registered FALaholic #: 14917 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: mid atlantic Posts: 12,015	There's a dovetail in the barrel flat. Is this a good thing? you seem to be looking for a specific set of info.

January 29, 2010, 11:48	#43
elbo Registered FALaholic #: 8362 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: va Posts: 2,803	Original Remingtons, Piettas, and old Ubertis were screwed in. I don't know when Uberti started with the dove tail, but I had thought yours would have been threaded. I think the Piettas are still threaded. On a side note original '51 Navys and old Uberties had the front sight threaded. Now Uberti and Pietta both just stake them in a shallow hole. At least with the dovetail it won't launch during a firing session. __________________ Keep your trust in God; Your government has failed you miserably. The Lord Gives Me Grace and the Devil Gives Me Style

January 29, 2010, 11:51	#44
brownknees Registered FALaholic #: 14917 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: mid atlantic Posts: 12,015	Gotcha, thanks again. I'm still figuring this thing out, having a blast though & I haven't even fired it yet.

January 29, 2010, 21:08	#45
yarro Registered FALaholic #: 28278 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 858	Be sure to take out the nipples before you fire it the first time and put anti-sieze on the threads. Take them out after every firing session when you clean and put anti-sieze on the threads when assembling. I use Bore Butter when shooting black. I lightly coat the cylinder pin too. Nothing when using Geox Pinnacle. If you use Pinnacle or one of the ones of the same composition, make sure there is no oil in the barrel or cylinders and it will not build up residue. Still need to clean as the fouling does attract moisture. If you forget to clean the oil out, it will make a gummy mess. The last pair that I bought had weak mainsprings and would blow the caps off the nipples and tie up the guns. Replacing the mainsprings resolved the issue. -yarro __________________ Most people will give up freedoms for the perception of safety until they are no longer free or safe.