Upcoming para build - Ace M4 stock advice sought

Battler · September 24, 2009, 11:43

http://riflestocks.com/catalog/produ...roducts_id=369

The Ace M4 folding stock - does it work well on an FAL? What is the LOP range with this combo (i.e. does having it behind the FAL block have it too long to be really usably adjustable like on an AR?)

The gun will have a DSA scope mount - would the 1" pad work for irons AND optic, or do you need the .5"?

What are my sling options for such a gun? The gun will have a front rail - should I keep the FAL swivel on the barrel, or go with something rail-mount?

Thanks

**4markk** · September 24, 2009, 13:41

I have a FAL with the ACE system. Here are a couple of observations:
1) Because of the Conversion Block, the stock at its smallest setting is only about 3/4 inch shorter than a standard stock. But about 1.5 inches shorter than the Para Stock.
2) The stock sits a little too low inline with the rifle. If you intend shoulder fire, I think the standard stock is better. If you intend chest fire with body armor, it works OK (not excellent).
3) IMHO the standard M4 collapsible stock is not strong enough for the FAL. I would suggest getting their Super-Duty 7-position stock. It is strong enough to use the rifle to break your fall, the standard one is not.

All of these depend on what you want to do with the rifle. If you want to practice CQB using body-armor, then this seems to be a good option. If you want a comfortable usable stock for anything other then firing center-chest, I would suggest something else.

Also, if you want this for CQB, the FAL is a very heavy platform compared to other better suited alternatives. With that said, the 7.62 is a hard to beat round.

IMHO you need to sit down and think hard what you want the rifle for. Other than CQB this is probably not the best option.

**W.E.G.** · September 24, 2009, 14:38

Only works on FAL's configured with para-type bolt and recoil mechanism.

Battler · September 24, 2009, 14:49

Quote:

Originally posted by 4markk

Also, if you want this for CQB, the FAL is a very heavy platform compared to other better suited alternatives. With that said, the 7.62 is a hard to beat round.

IMHO you need to sit down and think hard what you want the rifle for. Other than CQB this is probably not the best option. [/B]

Kinda want a Para; but am willing to put better stuff on it than the "stock" folder.

What are your thoughts then - is the para best served with the regular para stock?

**W.E.G.** · September 24, 2009, 15:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Battler

What are your thoughts then - is the para best served with the regular para stock?

Completely a matter of taste.

The ACE may be more comfortable.
The "regular" para stock is certainly more "traditional" and "authentic."

Its your gun man.
Make it the way YOU want it, and ignore the shrieks of safe-queen ladies in waiting.

Beckman · September 24, 2009, 15:49

As far as the ACE conversion block and/or the Length of Pull issue, it should be noted that DSA sells both the M4 and the ACE SOCCOM stock with a different hinge mechanism. I do not know whether the DSA hinge block will give a shorter LOP or whether the DSA is better/stronger/easier, but it is two other options.

The DSA items below are only the stock and the DSA hinge; you'll still need to purchase a lower, probably a para-type lower or maybe a regular lower with the tang removed:

Here's the DSA M4 version:
http://www.dsarms.com/SA58_FAL-Side-...ctinfo/P099M4/

Here's the DSA SOCCOM version:
http://www.dsarms.com/SA58_FAL-LOP-S...nfo/P099SOCOM/

Again, I'm not saying that the DSA hinge block version is better than ACE's own version. It's just another option to consider.

Battler · September 24, 2009, 15:52

Quote:

Originally posted by 4markk

3) IMHO the standard M4 collapsible stock is not strong enough for the FAL. I would suggest getting their Super-Duty 7-position stock. It is strong enough to use the rifle to break your fall, the standard one is not.

By the way, I meant/linked the M4 Socom - was your critique of that one or the other standard M4 type?

Also, would the length issues facing the super-duty 7-position? I'm concerned about an actual AR stock as it compromises cheek for issues that the Fal doesn't have (charging handle)

**4markk** · September 24, 2009, 16:31

I'm not sure if you are starting out with a Para FAL Or a Para FAL Conversion. This would make a slight difference in whether the ACE or the DSA block/knuckle would be best.

Mine is a Para Conversion, so I will answer accordingly. The ACE block uses the stock lug on the lower receiver for added strength between the connection. Although it might be over-engineering, I like the fact it is there. Especially since I am a little "rough" with the rifle. I actually drilled out the rivets on the lug and tapped the holes for flat-head machine screws. This allows me to swap out the ACE for a Falcon standard Para folding-stock ( I just put small plastic caps on the holes). A little expensive, but I like the flexibility.

If you get the DSA set-up, you would have to remove the stock lug for the knuckle to fit (just like on a standard Para folding-stock). The main advantage is that all you would have to do is buy the actual two-rail stock to have both. An overall cheaper and easier configuration than mine.

Lastly, you are correct, I was referring to the standard M4 collapsible stock. Not sure the length on their SOCOM. Also, I have the Super-duty (with a cheekrest added), which may or may not be longer than the standard M4. Nor do I include a pad on the end of the stock.

**4markk** · September 24, 2009, 16:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Battler
http://riflestocks.com/catalog/produ...roducts_id=369

What are my sling options for such a gun? The gun will have a front rail - should I keep the FAL swivel on the barrel, or go with something rail-mount?

Thanks

I use the 3-point tactical sling, because I am mostly firing from center-chest. Therefore I use the standard front swivel, the swivel on the ACE block, and side swivel on the collapsible stock.

I'll get the rifle back from my brother this weekend and post a picture to show you my set-up. (I'll post a warning so FAL Traditionalist don't start screaming and spray Holy Water on the screen

)

W.E.G -- I see you are in NOVA. Do you ever use the Izaak Walton range? I live a few miles from it. When I get clearance from the Docs to go shootin again, we should meet and fire up some rounds and burgers there.

Battler · September 24, 2009, 21:29

I'm not interested in purity here (relax, I have a "pure" 21" already) but a good cool robust blah blah shootable 18" folding 308.

My parts are an Austrian parts kit (yes, from nearly 10 years ago), an Imbel receiver, and the big wad of money I will be spending on a new (I assume DSA) lower receiver, and the rest of the parts.

**4markk** · September 29, 2009, 18:04

Here is a picture of my Para-FAL with the collapsible stock. That is the ACE Block with the ACE Super-Duty 7-position.

MrWithasee · September 29, 2009, 21:40

talked to the guys at ACE today about the FAL M4 SOCOM mod Stock they have.
they do not recommend using this stock with the FAL platform.
its noted on their site not to use it with anything over x39.
i brought to their attention that this stock is specifically made (and marketed) for the FAL platform yet they do not recommend using it on the FAL - he said that was correct.
he did add that the strength problem was only with the M4 SOCOM modular stock fro FAL. the other SOCOM stocks and other FAL stocks were good-to-go

big bummer on my end because i was wanting that stock for my para build.
now i'm resorted back to searching the board for pros/cons on the different traditional para folding stocks.

Waiting patiently for some good intel on which direction to proceed next.

**4markk** · September 30, 2009, 21:11

Then you should check out DSA's version of the FAL SOCOM stock. It may cost more and you may have to wait longer, but you will get a durable quality product. Like they say, you get what you pay for.

DISCLAIMER: I have no experience using the DSA SOCOM stock. So I have no first hand knowledge to their usability.

**brunop** · September 30, 2009, 23:47

I have the DSA SOCCOM stock on one of my paras. I like it very well.

Stock closed:

**brunop** · September 30, 2009, 23:49

Stock open. It has two inches of adjustment. This shows it completely open and all the way out...

Varangian · October 01, 2009, 20:33

Quote:

Originally posted by brunop
Stock open. It has two inches of adjustment. This shows it completely open and all the way out...

Can you slap a ruler on the length of pull from the back of the receiver to the end of the stock, fully-extended?

FAL4EVER · August 12, 2012, 14:16

Same question here. Anyone out there with either a ACE or SOCOM stock willing to measure from the back of the receiver to the end of the stock, fully extended? I want to use my para in 3gun (He-Man), but being 6'7" it's too difficult to get a good sight position for irons and it gets even worse waring safety glasses. The std para folder is 10.25".
My LR-308 is about 3" longer from the rear sight to the end of the stock:

Thanks!

healedknee · August 15, 2012, 22:17

I purchased my 16.25" para 3+ years ago from DSA with the ACE SOCOM stock. Two of them broke on the gun as the stocks would not hold up to the recoil. DSA fixed the problem but I decided to go with a different stock after the second one broke. I asked DSA to replace it with a Magpul UBR which is a much more robust stock. I am well pleased! Suggest you look at the Magpul line of stocks.

September 24, 2009, 11:43	#1
Battler Registered FALaholic #: 673 Join Date: Aug 2000 Posts: 18	Upcoming para build - Ace M4 stock advice sought http://riflestocks.com/catalog/produ...roducts_id=369 The Ace M4 folding stock - does it work well on an FAL? What is the LOP range with this combo (i.e. does having it behind the FAL block have it too long to be really usably adjustable like on an AR?) The gun will have a DSA scope mount - would the 1" pad work for irons AND optic, or do you need the .5"? What are my sling options for such a gun? The gun will have a front rail - should I keep the FAL swivel on the barrel, or go with something rail-mount? Thanks

September 24, 2009, 13:41	#2
4markk Military Observer Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 31134 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 2,274	I have a FAL with the ACE system. Here are a couple of observations: 1) Because of the Conversion Block, the stock at its smallest setting is only about 3/4 inch shorter than a standard stock. But about 1.5 inches shorter than the Para Stock. 2) The stock sits a little too low inline with the rifle. If you intend shoulder fire, I think the standard stock is better. If you intend chest fire with body armor, it works OK (not excellent). 3) IMHO the standard M4 collapsible stock is not strong enough for the FAL. I would suggest getting their Super-Duty 7-position stock. It is strong enough to use the rifle to break your fall, the standard one is not. All of these depend on what you want to do with the rifle. If you want to practice CQB using body-armor, then this seems to be a good option. If you want a comfortable usable stock for anything other then firing center-chest, I would suggest something else. Also, if you want this for CQB, the FAL is a very heavy platform compared to other better suited alternatives. With that said, the 7.62 is a hard to beat round. IMHO you need to sit down and think hard what you want the rifle for. Other than CQB this is probably not the best option. __________________ ` ` The difference between the possible and the impossible is only in the degree of a man's will. Chinese Proverb “The worst thing about growing old is that other men stop seeing you as dangerous.” Act Of Valor Last edited by 4markk; September 24, 2009 at 13:54.

September 24, 2009, 14:38	#3
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,052	Only works on FAL's configured with para-type bolt and recoil mechanism. __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

September 24, 2009, 15:49	#6
Beckman Registered FALaholic #: 16308 Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,652	As far as the ACE conversion block and/or the Length of Pull issue, it should be noted that DSA sells both the M4 and the ACE SOCCOM stock with a different hinge mechanism. I do not know whether the DSA hinge block will give a shorter LOP or whether the DSA is better/stronger/easier, but it is two other options. The DSA items below are only the stock and the DSA hinge; you'll still need to purchase a lower, probably a para-type lower or maybe a regular lower with the tang removed: Here's the DSA M4 version: http://www.dsarms.com/SA58_FAL-Side-...ctinfo/P099M4/ Here's the DSA SOCCOM version: http://www.dsarms.com/SA58_FAL-LOP-S...nfo/P099SOCOM/ Again, I'm not saying that the DSA hinge block version is better than ACE's own version. It's just another option to consider. Last edited by Beckman; September 24, 2009 at 15:55.

September 24, 2009, 16:31	#8
4markk Military Observer Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 31134 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 2,274	I'm not sure if you are starting out with a Para FAL Or a Para FAL Conversion. This would make a slight difference in whether the ACE or the DSA block/knuckle would be best. Mine is a Para Conversion, so I will answer accordingly. The ACE block uses the stock lug on the lower receiver for added strength between the connection. Although it might be over-engineering, I like the fact it is there. Especially since I am a little "rough" with the rifle. I actually drilled out the rivets on the lug and tapped the holes for flat-head machine screws. This allows me to swap out the ACE for a Falcon standard Para folding-stock ( I just put small plastic caps on the holes). A little expensive, but I like the flexibility. If you get the DSA set-up, you would have to remove the stock lug for the knuckle to fit (just like on a standard Para folding-stock). The main advantage is that all you would have to do is buy the actual two-rail stock to have both. An overall cheaper and easier configuration than mine. Lastly, you are correct, I was referring to the standard M4 collapsible stock. Not sure the length on their SOCOM. Also, I have the Super-duty (with a cheekrest added), which may or may not be longer than the standard M4. Nor do I include a pad on the end of the stock. __________________ ` ` The difference between the possible and the impossible is only in the degree of a man's will. Chinese Proverb “The worst thing about growing old is that other men stop seeing you as dangerous.” Act Of Valor

September 24, 2009, 21:29	#10
Battler Registered FALaholic #: 673 Join Date: Aug 2000 Posts: 18	I'm not interested in purity here (relax, I have a "pure" 21" already) but a good cool robust blah blah shootable 18" folding 308. My parts are an Austrian parts kit (yes, from nearly 10 years ago), an Imbel receiver, and the big wad of money I will be spending on a new (I assume DSA) lower receiver, and the rest of the parts.

September 29, 2009, 21:40	#12
MrWithasee Registered FALaholic #: 23478 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 210	not to hijack or anything... talked to the guys at ACE today about the FAL M4 SOCOM mod Stock they have. they do not recommend using this stock with the FAL platform. its noted on their site not to use it with anything over x39. i brought to their attention that this stock is specifically made (and marketed) for the FAL platform yet they do not recommend using it on the FAL - he said that was correct. he did add that the strength problem was only with the M4 SOCOM modular stock fro FAL. the other SOCOM stocks and other FAL stocks were good-to-go big bummer on my end because i was wanting that stock for my para build. now i'm resorted back to searching the board for pros/cons on the different traditional para folding stocks. Waiting patiently for some good intel on which direction to proceed next. __________________ 1* "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."--Thomas Jefferson, 1787 Equal opportunity offender

September 30, 2009, 21:11	#13
4markk Military Observer Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 31134 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 2,274	Then you should check out DSA's version of the FAL SOCOM stock. It may cost more and you may have to wait longer, but you will get a durable quality product. Like they say, you get what you pay for. DISCLAIMER: I have no experience using the DSA SOCOM stock. So I have no first hand knowledge to their usability. __________________ ` ` The difference between the possible and the impossible is only in the degree of a man's will. Chinese Proverb “The worst thing about growing old is that other men stop seeing you as dangerous.” Act Of Valor

August 12, 2012, 14:16	#17
FAL4EVER Registered FALaholic #: 13671 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 294	Re: Same question here. Anyone out there with either a ACE or SOCOM stock willing to measure from the back of the receiver to the end of the stock, fully extended? I want to use my para in 3gun (He-Man), but being 6'7" it's too difficult to get a good sight position for irons and it gets even worse waring safety glasses. The std para folder is 10.25". My LR-308 is about 3" longer from the rear sight to the end of the stock: Thanks! __________________ "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" Edmund Burke (1729-97)

August 15, 2012, 22:17	#18
healedknee Registered FALaholic #: 36189 Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 24	Folding, Collapsible Stock for FAL I purchased my 16.25" para 3+ years ago from DSA with the ACE SOCOM stock. Two of them broke on the gun as the stocks would not hold up to the recoil. DSA fixed the problem but I decided to go with a different stock after the second one broke. I asked DSA to replace it with a Magpul UBR which is a much more robust stock. I am well pleased! Suggest you look at the Magpul line of stocks.

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