Free Speech

[V guy]

A case was argued at SCOTUS today concerning the current campain anti free speech rules. I have always felt that McCain-Feingold is an outrageously unconstitutional restriction of free speech.

Today, according to reports, the court might actually be reversing itself on the issue and may recind the restrictions by gutting the bill in 3 similar cases before the court. We will have to wait and see.

After the arguments, McCain and Feingold held a press conference at which both BLASTED justices for what they said was being dangerously out of touch.

"The questioning shows a real disconnect, a strong disconnect between the justices and political reality," McCain said.

McCain does not want free speech.

"I wish that one of the justices who were standing up for people's First Amendment rights had ever run for county sheriff," he added. The justices showed an "extreme naivete of the influence of corporate money and soft money."

Feingold warned that, should the court roll back sections of BCRA by overturning Austin and McConnell, it would leave Congress with "no ability" to reform the campaign finance system.

A few feet away, attorneys from the Campaign Legal Center, a reform advocacy group, were subdued. Scott Thomas, a former chairman of the FEC who serves on the group's advisory board, admitted: "The government's got a tough row to hoe."

Sonia Sotomayor's argument was against free speech and with the Obama Administrations position on the matter in arguing for "stare decisis" or not to overturn the previous courts position in the matter.

[CaptainJ]

Sotomayor, Omarxist, McCain, and Feingold are against free speech

Whoda thunk it

What's next?
Will they'll be against the second amendment as well?


This has got to stop before it gets out of hand!!

[308bolt]

After the arguments, McCain and Feingold held a press conference at which both BLASTED justices for what they said was being dangerously out of touch.

Shows you who McCain really is.

He seems to have missed the point that the SCOTUS is there to interpret the Constitution as it was written rather than re-write it to suit the current political situation.

I'm not happy with the current White House occupant but I'm happy as hell that it isn't McCain.

[V guy]

According to the pundits, it will be 5-4 to deep six the anti-free speech provisions. I hope so.

[308bolt]

Originally posted by V guy
According to the pundits, it will be 5-4 to deep six the anti-free speech provisions. I hope so.

We need to deep six our politicians.

[DABTL]

It does not matter a lot. The contributions would be limited to any candidate.

Where the problem lies is the ability to flood the airwaves with political propaganda not for any particular candidate.

My guess: Nothing changes. Corporations are not people.

[2barearms]

Originally posted by DABTL
It does not matter a lot. The contributions would be limited to any candidate.

Where the problem lies is the ability to flood the airwaves with political propaganda not for any particular candidate.

My guess: Nothing changes. Corporations are not people.

I do believe propaganda is a government thing and not a private enterprise
thing. Your side would be the Government Media Complex.

[V guy]

Listening to two was telling.

Kennedy:"isn't it true that corporations have the expertise and knowledge in many areas and denying them, denys the public the right to be informed."

Scalia: "I hate to be cynical, but politicians pass laws that are beneficial to incumbents, isn't that true? This law is beneficial to incumbents."

[Firestarter]

No we don't need campaign finance reform at all.

That way ACORN can have 20 billion next time around...easy.

Where the fugk do you guys think that this money goes?

[DABTL]

Originally posted by 2barearms


I do believe propaganda is a government thing and not a private enterprise
thing. Your side would be the Government Media Complex.

What does that have to do with freedom of speech?

[DABTL]

Originally posted by Firestarter
No we don't need campaign finance reform at all.

That way ACORN can have 20 billion next time around...easy.

Where the fugk do you guys think that this money goes?

ACCORN says Boo!

[flopshot]

Originally posted by DABTL


ACCORN says Boo!

while they're being booked in Florida ?

[DABTL]

Originally posted by flopshot

while they're being booked in Florida ?

You left out 'booked into a fine hotel for the month' in your post.

We are sending all of the ACORN members to Florida for a month's vacation using TARP money and some unclaimed tax returns.

[bakerjw]

Nope while they're pimpin in Baltimore. My tax dollars hard at work.

[Radio]

I would still rather have McSame in a heartbeat over Obumbler.

We need to have Ronald Reagan cloned from 1976.

[Firestarter]

Originally posted by Radio

We need to have Ronald Reagan cloned from 1976.

Damn it Radio. You know I hate agreeing with you!

[DABTL]

Originally posted by Radio
I would still rather have McSame in a heartbeat over Obumbler.

We need to have Ronald Reagan cloned from 1976.

Maybe this will help your aching heart?



After all, you are entitled to tell the Congress how you want things to be and they better act on it.

[V guy]

Well Well Well!
SCOTUS comes through for us today on free speech even better than I predicted!

They did not feel that the case being decided went far enough to protect our free speech rights, so they went and EXPANDED the case at hand to protect free speech and to partially gut McCain-Feingold!

In this case of giving out more rights, that is an ok exercise of judicial conduct.
Justice "Machine Gun" Kennedy was concerned about "thought police" and said so.
This has just about destroyed Obamas hopes of any fairness doctrine getting passed, if it could get passed now anyway.

Corporations can now throw off the yoke of silence.

"Sotomayor and the 3 commies", protested that "institutions" could be hurt by this decision.
Yeah. like some gulag prison for dissidents that Obama's thought police CZARS wanted to build for us.

This IS big news for America!

I like this court!!
I fully expect that as the interstate commerce clause cases and the firearms cases come up to this court this spring, that the 2nd will be applied to the states and the GCA of 69 will be gutted along with the Commerce Clause.
These are great days!

[tuck0411]

Originally posted by V guy

These are great days!

Hehe, they must be for the master of gloom and doom to be excited.

[DABTL]

I guess turning the political system over to the multi national corporations is a good idea.

In the name of free speech we just became a nation of the world.

keep worrying about the United Nations, EXXON has your best interests foremost in its thoughts.

[Buddy Lee]

Originally posted by DABTL
It does not matter a lot. The contributions would be limited to any candidate.

Where the problem lies is the ability to flood the airwaves with political propaganda not for any particular candidate.

My guess: Nothing changes. Corporations are not people.

Your guess was wrong.

Hope this helps.

Buddy Lee

[DABTL]

Originally posted by Buddy Lee


Your guess was wrong.

Hope this helps.

Buddy Lee

Yep, corporations are people. No question about that now. Original intent and all that.

[V guy]

If Obama had gotten his way, and he still might, ALL dissent and political expression would be controlled by his CZARS.

This is a free speech issue, not a political issue and it involved the Constitution, so it is not negotiable by thugs who pass unconstituional laws to silence dissent by individuals or corporations.

The internet according to Obama is a hotbed of hate and those freaks who cling to their bibles and guns.

I would far more want to listen to Exxon, than Castro; proven track record.
It is THAT type of choice.

We know what Castro, Chavez, Mao, Kim Jung Ill, Ho Chi Mihn and Obama all represent when it comes to free speech.

Corporations might allegedly pollute, but look at pollution in China, Cuba, N Korea, Russia just for starters.
This is a win for the people.

[DABTL]

Originally posted by V guy
If Obama had gotten his way, and he still might, ALL dissent and political expression would be controlled by his CZARS.

This is a free speech issue, not a political issue and it involved the Constitution, so it is not negotiable by thugs who pass unconstituional laws to silence dissent by individuals or corporations.

The internet according to Obama is a hotbed of hate and those freaks who cling to their bibles and guns.

I would far more want to listen to Exxon, than Castro; proven track record.
It is THAT type of choice.

We know what Castro, Chavez, Mao, Kim Jung Ill, Ho Chi Mihn and Obama all represent when it comes to free speech.

Corporations might allegedly pollute, but look at pollution in China, Cuba, N Korea, Russia just for starters.
This is a win for the people.

It is a win for EXXON. It is a win for BoA. It is a win for France, China and Pakistan. Good luck on the spin.

[dsol]

Corporations make money, make things, sell things, hire people, pay saleries, provide benefits. Why shouldn't they have a chance to air advertisments for candidates? One candidate supports free enterprise and the other wants to tax anything they consider a windfall profit because that candidate thinks some companies are making too much money. Guess which one the evil, job providing, insurance providing corporation would like to support?

What does the government do for jobs? They take tax dollars and redistribute them. The government does not produce a thing, if it wasn't for corporations, where would the government get its money from to spread around?

But the evil corporations make too much money on the backs of the little people? There should be an extra tax on their windfall profits? They are providing jobs for the little people, why shouldn't they make a profit? Why is that bad for America and why are they so evil? How much you charge an hour as a lawyer dabs? Might someone here think it was too much and demand you lower your rate or be taxed on what they thought was excessive?

[WarriorPoet]

If you or your business is being attacked, via legislation in a manner which could substantially hurt your business and its employees/shareholders......should not those same people (you/employees/shareholders) have the right to Defend Themselves with their speech?

Or, is a company simply yet another tool for politicians to use for their own political/monotary gain (legislative arm-twisting, or lack thereof, in exchange for campaign donations)?

In the meantime, voters are free to listen to, or ignore, campaign commercials and make up their own minds whom they choose to vote for.

Some argue that corporate campaign commercials spread propaganda....

....AS IF POLITICIANS DON'T !!!!!!!


In the meantime, McCain-Feingold was supposed to remove the corrupting influence of corporate/lobbyist money from the political process.

B - freakin' S

It's the politician who TAKES the money-for-favors who represents corruption in D.C.

The individual/corp./lobbyist is only doing what they're supposed to do - which is look after their own interests.

Remember how McStain was against the idea of politicians providing (via web or hardcopy) lists of their campaign donors? Oh, NO! We cannot EXPOSE ourselves!!! Better to prevent people from exercising free speech 30-60 days before an election. Yeeeaaaahhh! THAT'S the ticket!

Bunch o' scumbags those politicians are.



Someone at work (a big pro-gunner) made the arguement that the 1st Amend. made no provisions for corporate contributions.

I pointed out that 2nd Amend. makes no provisions for self-loading, magazine-fed rifles. So, do we ban semi-autos? Am not sure if he got the point.



Final though on the matter....... If Chuck Schumer and Barney Frank and Obama are VEHEMENTLY AGAINST this SCOTUS decision - it MUST be good for America!

-WP

[garandguy10]

Originally posted by DABTL


It is a win for EXXON. It is a win for BoA. It is a win for France, China and Pakistan. Good luck on the spin.

I will take a win anyway I can.

I hope this helps.

[V guy]

I can't wait for the Exxon-Mobil movie ad about Obama, Kenya and Hawaii.

The scene will start with a '58 Ford Police Cruiser in the deep south, slowly patrolling a village park and then the sight of a black man and a white woman ducking into the bushes....

Hey where is alant? Kenya?

[DABTL]

Originally posted by garandguy10


I will take a win anyway I can.

I hope this helps.

Not to worry. EXXON has only your interests at heart.

[Firestarter]

Originally posted by DABTL


Not to worry. EXXON has only your interests at heart.

Boo hoo.

[dsol]

Originally posted by DABTL


Not to worry. EXXON has only your interests at heart.

Maybe not my interests, but they most likely do not have any ill will towards me either. Now if I were an employee of Exxon, I would hope the company would do well so I would continue getting paid and little stuff like that.

[skeeterbay]

I don't usually look or post in this section but I figure I will jump into this one with my 2cents.

I fail to see how this ruling is a win for the average American.


Quote: "Corporations make money, make things, sell things, hire people, pay saleries, provide benefits."


In theory the above statement is great. However in recent times it doesn't seem to work that way for the most part. The reason was that big business did well took the profits, jobs and factories and left for foreign lands. Places where labor is cheaper, regulations are more relaxed and they could make even bigger profits. The only folks that made out well were the corp share holders. The poor American worker didn't fair out well when his job went overseas. Good Lord! Just look around you. It does not take a smart man to figure out most of our large manufacturing base has left this country. Textile, steel mills, auto manufactures, etc etc the list goes on and on. We have or are becoming a service based country. How many things do you buy that were once made in America and are now made in China or some other place where labor is cheap. In some cases the American consumer made out in the fact that goods were cheaper in the stores. However IMHO most of the items are not as well made. I use to buy boots that were made in America. They would last me 4 years of everyday use. The last pair of the exact same boots that I bought were made in China. They lasted less than a year before the soles fell off. Sad part is they were not any cheaper than the American made ones.

I just do not see how giving big business more power and influence in Washington could be a good thing for the average American. Maybe I would feel differently if big business had conducted itself a bit better in the past. Just imagine if the banking and Wall street giants had more say than they already do?

Skeeter!

[V guy]

When you give up the right of free speech to one sector of the public, then it is very ez to limit some other group such as tea party demonstrators.
Obama has said through Waxmana and his CZARS that "the internet is full of hatred and we will censor it."

They are trying to censor it soon via the recent hate crimes legislation and will begin acting soon on test areas,

The McCain Feingold act was unconstitutional and the Court said so.
It prevented a large group of such entities such as the NRA and individuals from commenting in ads 60 days prior to an elecion.

The right of free speech is simple, either you have it or you don't.

Just because you do not like corporations, from some sort of mispaced 60's woodstock mentality, that thinking is simply wrong.

We need private enterprise and do not need big government.

[DABTL]

Originally posted by V guy
When you give up the right of free speech to one sector of the public, then it is very ez to limit some other group such as tea party demonstrators.
Obama has said through Waxmana and his CZARS that "the internet is full of hatred and we will censor it."

They are trying to censor it soon via the recent hate crimes legislation and will begin acting soon on test areas,

The McCain Feingold act was unconstitutional and the Court said so.
It prevented a large group of such entities such as the NRA and individuals from commenting in ads 60 days prior to an elecion.

The right of free speech is simple, either you have it or you don't.

Just because you do not like corporations, from some sort of mispaced 60's woodstock mentality, that thinking is simply wrong.

We need private enterprise and do not need big government.

Right on the money. Corporations are persons. EXXON has Second Amednment Rights too.

[skeeterbay]

V Guy, your idea of me is so far off the mark it's not even funny. I was not at Woodstock. Just to set the record straight. I grew up milking cows. I have been a construction worker, a logger, I am prior military, retired Fed LE, small farm owner, lifetime hunter and gun owner. My wife and I have seen six children leave this house. Most people that know me call me a red neck and I have had a flat top or high and tight hair cut since I was old enough to grow hair. I am the farthest thing from a hippie you could ever imagine!

Most of my comments were geared toward the "trickle down" idea the other poster was commenting on. I don't dislike corporations. I just dislike some of the things that SOME of them have been doing in the last few years. I don't care for the ones that jumped ship when NAFTA took effect. My hat goes off to the ones that stayed and to the smaller corp. IMHO they are keeping the country afloat right now.

The way I see this ruling is that it will allow way more big money into the election process. I do not see that as a good thing.

I understand your comment about the NRA. However it is IMHO a double edge sword. Have you stopped to think about all the foreign companies that will dump huge amounts of money just to influence our elections? I can't help but think that most politicians will feel mighty obligated to some corporation that drops a couple of mil in their favor at election time.

I fully support free speech. I guess I just see this more as a campaign funding thing than I do a free speech issue. To me it's just another way for big money to influence our election process.

Skeeter!