Aluminum Liner for Hot Handguards?

MikeF · September 01, 2009, 22:12

My Search-Fu is weak. I remember reading several comments about methods for insulating metal handguards, but have been unable to get the search to retrieve them.

I just got a DSA STG-58 with the 18" barrel, and really like the looks of the metal handguards, but I can see how they would get pretty warm after a few rounds of rapid fire.

Other than wearing an oven mitt, I recall people mentioning some sort of foil-faced tape to line the interior with, and one person mentioned having a template for cutting an aluminum liner for the STG-58 handguard.

Most of the aluminum tape I have seen is just foil with an adhesive back, but Frost King mentions having a foil faced self-adhesive foam tape. That sounds better than just reflective foil, if the foam will stand the heat.

Any suggestions on finding a template, specific types of foil tape to use or other marvelous ideas?

SWOHFAL · September 01, 2009, 22:36

I put a fiberglass resin in mine first, then put the non-foam aluminum tape on. I have PSAW plastic HGs.

**Lee Carpentieri** · September 01, 2009, 23:23

Just remember that no matter what you put in the hand guards that the barrel has to breath/Release the heat so if you have to continue shooting your shots don't start to wandering around a target area due to contained heat distortion of the rifling within the barrel.

**kfranz** · September 02, 2009, 22:52

Chicken Mitt. It's the original.

It's been so long since StG's have been the common kit that I've fogotten many of the other methods discussed. A few off the top of my head

Paint the HG's with truck bed liner
Wrap them with paracord
Line them with all manner of racing materials
replace them with wood or plastic
use the mag front hold

powermad · September 03, 2009, 05:32

I tried out a set of metal HG's. They got way to hot to handle after 2 mags.
Even with a glove on it started getting hard to hold on to the front of it.
Resorted to the hand on front of mag deal.
It was kinda funny passing it my buddy and he reached out and grabbed the HG, almost dropped it. Kinda smelled like a pig roast.

If ya have to have em I would get some quality header tape and cut it to fit. Use some sort of heat resistent epoxy to glue it down.
Get the 1" wide stuff. That should help some.

The Aussie HG's I have came with lining in them.
By far they are best I have tried for comfortable HG's. I can put 200 rounds down range in an hr and not have to wear a glove.
The Imbel HG's I have get pretty hot also after a bit.

**Steve in Allentown, PA** · September 03, 2009, 16:14

Even the plastic handguards that come standard on DSA SA58's get too hot to handle far too quickly. It was an unpleasant surprise to me when I bought my first DSA after years shooting M1As.

Sounds to me like an opportunity for DSA or smaller outfit to figure out how to manufacture a plastic handguard with built in heat reflectors like in M-16s. The FAL purists will poo-poo the idea because it isn't historically correct but I for one would jump on the chance for a product-improved set of modern handguards.

Colt Vickers · September 03, 2009, 18:27

Put me down for a set of those too! G1 FAL with metal handguards after three mags rapid you don't want to be anywhere near. I guess they designed those things expecting to invade the Soviet Union again. The added problem with these guns is the fixed bipod. Any handguard you do get has to be bipod cut.

Tom

MikeF · September 03, 2009, 23:30

All I can figure is those soldiers must have had very calloused hands, to stand up to the heat, unless they never fired the rifle much!

I did some more digging, and ran across this post about FAL handguards from another site in September of 07-

"I made a set of aluminum inserts that snap into the bends of the sheet metal handguards that act like the AR heatshields. I still have a template I can run off and send to you if you feel like doing a bit of creative metal cutting. It's the aluminum sheet metal flashing."

It's by LEE7.62 from Pineville, LA

http://www.assaultweb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29107

I just registered so I could send him a PM. It sounds like something worth investigating.

**W.E.G.** · September 03, 2009, 23:33

Quote:

Originally posted by kfranz
Chicken Mitt. It's the original.

+1

**StG58Freak** · September 04, 2009, 05:49

I found that wearing a Nomex Glove works quite well when firing my G1 enough to get her Hot.

GDavis · September 04, 2009, 09:01

With the price of 7.62X51 ammo I do not do rapid fire, so overheated handguards are not a concern for me.

**Steve in Allentown, PA** · September 04, 2009, 16:37

Quote:

Originally posted by MikeF
"I made a set of aluminum inserts that snap into the bends of the sheet metal handguards that act like the AR heatshields. I still have a template I can run off and send to you if you feel like doing a bit of creative metal cutting. It's the aluminum sheet metal flashing."

http://www.assaultweb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29107

I just registered so I could send him a PM. It sounds like something worth investigating.[/i]

I am most interested in what you uncover.

Quote:

I found that wearing a Nomex Glove works quite well

Quote:

With the price of 7.62X51 ammo I do not do rapid fire, so overheated handguards are not a concern for me.

I appreciate these comments but I'm not interested in work-around solutions that will allow me to spend a relaxing day at the range slowly punching holes in paper. I want to be able to grab the rifle , a full bandolier of mags, and rapidly engage the zombie hordes as they come up my street. Obviously, I'm being facitious but if you read between the lines, you get my point. The FAL is a combat weapon and should be able to fulfill its role without the limitation imposed by red-hot handguards. Forgetting to grab my Nomex on the way out the door should not put me at a tactical disadvantage. Likewise, shooting slowly enough to prevent excessive heat build up in the handguards could allow a lot of zombies to avoid getting their just desserts and result in my untimely demise.

**L Haney** · September 04, 2009, 16:57

These concerns surface every year at Stimpy's FAL match here in GA. I don't think I've seen a completely effective solution. The action course of fire closely simulates engaging 60~80 zombies at various ranges. And the clock is the dominant factor in your score. Smoking barrels are the rule, a couple of plastic handguards melted this year. If anybody in that group has licked this problem, they kept it to themselves. It would give a tactical advantage.

Lowell

101ABN327 · September 04, 2009, 17:27

Metal handguards are worthless. They were never a good idea...

GDavis · September 04, 2009, 17:40

OK, I do get your point.

My practical solution is simple, when my Belgium FAL overheats, I drop it and pickup my Argentina FAL. When that over heats I drop it (even with zombies I doubt I just "drop it") and pickup M1A #1, then on to M1A #2, then to my Cetme. Out of 7.62X51 rifles (assuming my wife is not reloading the mags for FAL #1 again as it has cooled by this time) I'd start up with either my IMI Galil or one of my 4 AKs each with 75 round drums., or perhaps one of my 5 ARs. There are alot more options after that. By this time I would realize I am in a world of shit as the brass piles up around me and I find it difficult to move around from my shooting position. I worry more about my trigger finger getting tired tham anything else. I beg my wife to help but she would tell me that shooting zombies is "my thing" and she wants to go back and read her books.

Just putting a little humor into into the "zombie" thing. We all know it means "riftraft" and I believe we all picture the same thing. Hell- just throw them some chickin and they will go away. (before you blast me- it is you that formed the picture of riftraft in your head- so don't yell at me!). From what I've heard, zombies LOVE chikin!

jt59 · September 04, 2009, 20:15

I don't shoot the big guns any more due to ammo cost, but I have Israeli hand guards on my FAL and they make a rapid fire event much more comfortable without the need to wear oven mitts. Ugly but funtional.

SWOHFAL · September 04, 2009, 22:28

Quote:

Originally posted by GDavis
From what I've heard, zombies LOVE chikin!

powermad · September 05, 2009, 04:31

I picked up a set of Aussie HG's from L/FN for $35

Ready to go to work.

Shoot it enough and ya will ditch the bipod. So it don't matter if the HG's are cut for em.

Super B · September 05, 2009, 04:43

How about using Izzy handguards?

**Steve in Allentown, PA** · September 06, 2009, 15:17

Quote:

Originally posted by powermad

Now this is the idea although I'd still like to see heatshields in standard plastic handguards so as to retain the distinctive FAL slim feel. Also, if the heat shields could be separated from the handguards by an air space, I think it would enhance the effectiveness. I agree that the bipod is an unneccessary accessory.

The Israeli handguards and FNC handguards put more internal space between the barrel and the handguards thus reducing the time it would take to heat up the handguards themselves, theoretically. This additional room should also make it easier to add heatshields.

But I'm still of the opinion that a newly designed and manufactured handguard with integral heatshields would be the preferred option. Such handguards for ARs cost less than $25 a set.

Hansawa · September 07, 2009, 23:32

When I ordered handguards from DSA in February (just received them, by the way) I thought they told me it would take a while to get them in stock because they were working on perfecting the fit of the metal heat shields (I could be wrong--it's been a long time). My new handguards sadly arrived without heat shields.

saltshaker · September 08, 2009, 08:10

I bought the "famous" Tapco furniture set some time back......(yes saw buttstock to)w/ the T-48 handguard.......That hand guard though odd looking seems to offer some insulation from the heat.
I can't use it because I have the short gas system......the top of the handguard will not protect the exposed gas sys. parts.....I havent decided which direction I am going to take this most likely Israeli .......
+1 on the flight gloves nomex olive drab 1 pair on 1 in pack....

MikeF · September 08, 2009, 09:21

I got a note from Lee at assaultweb. He is going to scan the template and send me a copy. When I get a chance (probably next week) I will see how it works and post a report.

Has anyone read what the Austrian's experience was with the metal handguards on the STG-58? It seems that it would have been an obvious problem.

September 01, 2009, 23:23	#3
Lee Carpentieri Curio & Relic Gold Contributor FALaholic #: 4936 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: N/A Posts: 4,180	Handguard Liners Just remember that no matter what you put in the hand guards that the barrel has to breath/Release the heat so if you have to continue shooting your shots don't start to wandering around a target area due to contained heat distortion of the rifling within the barrel. __________________ Live life to the fullest, Because in the end there's only death and taxs.

September 03, 2009, 23:30	#8
MikeF Registered FALaholic #: 39116 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 122	All I can figure is those soldiers must have had very calloused hands, to stand up to the heat, unless they never fired the rifle much! I did some more digging, and ran across this post about FAL handguards from another site in September of 07- "I made a set of aluminum inserts that snap into the bends of the sheet metal handguards that act like the AR heatshields. I still have a template I can run off and send to you if you feel like doing a bit of creative metal cutting. It's the aluminum sheet metal flashing." It's by LEE7.62 from Pineville, LA http://www.assaultweb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29107 I just registered so I could send him a PM. It sounds like something worth investigating. __________________ Happiness is a moving target

September 04, 2009, 16:57	#13
L Haney Seriously Ponderin' Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 20446 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NW Ga Posts: 8,358	These concerns surface every year at Stimpy's FAL match here in GA. I don't think I've seen a completely effective solution. The action course of fire closely simulates engaging 60~80 zombies at various ranges. And the clock is the dominant factor in your score. Smoking barrels are the rule, a couple of plastic handguards melted this year. If anybody in that group has licked this problem, they kept it to themselves. It would give a tactical advantage. Lowell __________________ “I am quite sure I do not get what is so funny about my RO style." stimpsonjcat You'd have to be there, and if you ain't it's your loss.

September 05, 2009, 04:43	#19
Super B Registered FALaholic #: 404 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tallahassee, FL,, USA Posts: 1,632	How about using Izzy handguards? __________________ 'The true Soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' -G. K. Chesterton

September 08, 2009, 08:10	#22
saltshaker Registered FALaholic #: 43355 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tarpon Springs, Fl. / Jax. Fl. Posts: 1,241	I bought the "famous" Tapco furniture set some time back......(yes saw buttstock to)w/ the T-48 handguard.......That hand guard though odd looking seems to offer some insulation from the heat. I can't use it because I have the short gas system......the top of the handguard will not protect the exposed gas sys. parts.....I havent decided which direction I am going to take this most likely Israeli ....... +1 on the flight gloves nomex olive drab 1 pair on 1 in pack.... __________________ Tyler Durden: In the world I see - you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway. Last edited by saltshaker; September 08, 2009 at 08:22.

September 01, 2009, 22:12	#1
MikeF Registered FALaholic #: 39116 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 122	Aluminum Liner for Hot Handguards? My Search-Fu is weak. I remember reading several comments about methods for insulating metal handguards, but have been unable to get the search to retrieve them. I just got a DSA STG-58 with the 18" barrel, and really like the looks of the metal handguards, but I can see how they would get pretty warm after a few rounds of rapid fire. Other than wearing an oven mitt, I recall people mentioning some sort of foil-faced tape to line the interior with, and one person mentioned having a template for cutting an aluminum liner for the STG-58 handguard. Most of the aluminum tape I have seen is just foil with an adhesive back, but Frost King mentions having a foil faced self-adhesive foam tape. That sounds better than just reflective foil, if the foam will stand the heat. Any suggestions on finding a template, specific types of foil tape to use or other marvelous ideas? __________________ Happiness is a moving target

September 01, 2009, 22:36	#2
SWOHFAL Registered FALaholic #: 34346 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Obamunist-occupied America Posts: 8,424	I put a fiberglass resin in mine first, then put the non-foam aluminum tape on. I have PSAW plastic HGs. __________________ Man is tormented by no greater anxiety than to find someone quickly to whom he can hand over that great gift of freedom with which the ill-fated creature is born. - Fyodor Dostoevsky

September 02, 2009, 22:52	#4
kfranz Curio & Relic Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 101 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Central Wisconsin Posts: 3,627	Chicken Mitt. It's the original. It's been so long since StG's have been the common kit that I've fogotten many of the other methods discussed. A few off the top of my head Paint the HG's with truck bed liner Wrap them with paracord Line them with all manner of racing materials replace them with wood or plastic use the mag front hold

September 03, 2009, 05:32	#5
powermad Registered FALaholic #: 21150 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,216	I tried out a set of metal HG's. They got way to hot to handle after 2 mags. Even with a glove on it started getting hard to hold on to the front of it. Resorted to the hand on front of mag deal. It was kinda funny passing it my buddy and he reached out and grabbed the HG, almost dropped it. Kinda smelled like a pig roast. If ya have to have em I would get some quality header tape and cut it to fit. Use some sort of heat resistent epoxy to glue it down. Get the 1" wide stuff. That should help some. The Aussie HG's I have came with lining in them. By far they are best I have tried for comfortable HG's. I can put 200 rounds down range in an hr and not have to wear a glove. The Imbel HG's I have get pretty hot also after a bit.

September 03, 2009, 16:14	#6
Steve in Allentown, PA Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 30456 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 144	Even the plastic handguards that come standard on DSA SA58's get too hot to handle far too quickly. It was an unpleasant surprise to me when I bought my first DSA after years shooting M1As. Sounds to me like an opportunity for DSA or smaller outfit to figure out how to manufacture a plastic handguard with built in heat reflectors like in M-16s. The FAL purists will poo-poo the idea because it isn't historically correct but I for one would jump on the chance for a product-improved set of modern handguards.

September 03, 2009, 18:27	#7
Colt Vickers Registered FALaholic #: 1037 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Miami, Fla Posts: 24	Put me down for a set of those too! G1 FAL with metal handguards after three mags rapid you don't want to be anywhere near. I guess they designed those things expecting to invade the Soviet Union again. The added problem with these guns is the fixed bipod. Any handguard you do get has to be bipod cut. Tom

September 04, 2009, 05:49	#10
StG58Freak banned Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 21043 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Behind You. Posts: 2,332	I found that wearing a Nomex Glove works quite well when firing my G1 enough to get her Hot.

September 04, 2009, 09:01	#11
GDavis Registered FALaholic #: 5233 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 184	With the price of 7.62X51 ammo I do not do rapid fire, so overheated handguards are not a concern for me.

September 04, 2009, 17:27	#14
101ABN327 Registered FALaholic #: 19486 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: OKLAHOMA Posts: 5,989	Metal handguards are worthless. They were never a good idea...

September 04, 2009, 17:40	#15
GDavis Registered FALaholic #: 5233 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 184	OK, I do get your point. My practical solution is simple, when my Belgium FAL overheats, I drop it and pickup my Argentina FAL. When that over heats I drop it (even with zombies I doubt I just "drop it") and pickup M1A #1, then on to M1A #2, then to my Cetme. Out of 7.62X51 rifles (assuming my wife is not reloading the mags for FAL #1 again as it has cooled by this time) I'd start up with either my IMI Galil or one of my 4 AKs each with 75 round drums., or perhaps one of my 5 ARs. There are alot more options after that. By this time I would realize I am in a world of shit as the brass piles up around me and I find it difficult to move around from my shooting position. I worry more about my trigger finger getting tired tham anything else. I beg my wife to help but she would tell me that shooting zombies is "my thing" and she wants to go back and read her books. Just putting a little humor into into the "zombie" thing. We all know it means "riftraft" and I believe we all picture the same thing. Hell- just throw them some chickin and they will go away. (before you blast me- it is you that formed the picture of riftraft in your head- so don't yell at me!). From what I've heard, zombies LOVE chikin!

September 04, 2009, 20:15	#16
jt59 Registered Contributor FALaholic #: 21735 Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 68	I don't shoot the big guns any more due to ammo cost, but I have Israeli hand guards on my FAL and they make a rapid fire event much more comfortable without the need to wear oven mitts. Ugly but funtional.

September 05, 2009, 04:31	#18
powermad Registered FALaholic #: 21150 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,216	I picked up a set of Aussie HG's from L/FN for $35 Ready to go to work. Shoot it enough and ya will ditch the bipod. So it don't matter if the HG's are cut for em.

September 07, 2009, 23:32	#21
Hansawa Registered FALaholic #: 42450 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lexington, SC Posts: 43	When I ordered handguards from DSA in February (just received them, by the way) I thought they told me it would take a while to get them in stock because they were working on perfecting the fit of the metal heat shields (I could be wrong--it's been a long time). My new handguards sadly arrived without heat shields.

September 08, 2009, 09:21	#23
MikeF Registered FALaholic #: 39116 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 122	I got a note from Lee at assaultweb. He is going to scan the template and send me a copy. When I get a chance (probably next week) I will see how it works and post a report. Has anyone read what the Austrian's experience was with the metal handguards on the STG-58? It seems that it would have been an obvious problem. __________________ Happiness is a moving target

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