Ok, sorry, headspace help

JeepsAndGuns · July 12, 2009, 18:37

Well big thanks to a fellow member on here, I now have the barrel installed onto my reciever. We then went to headspace it. We stuck the GO guage in and started with his smallest guage pin, witch was .255. It would not close easy. It would close when you apply more than 2 thumb pressure, witch I think is way to much.
Taking this info, could a proper LS be determined? Or will I need to find/rent/buy/borrow smaller guage pins and also the headspace guage and do some further testing?

Thanks for any help.

**W.E.G.** · July 12, 2009, 21:27

Just order a couple pin gages in smaller sizes.

They hardly cost anything, and you will have greater peace of mind that you aren't just pulling numbers out your ass.

MSCdirect.com

JeepsAndGuns · July 13, 2009, 19:04

I know they are cheap, but as soon as I get this done, I have no use for them, so I would be trying to sell them to people on here who probably already have them. So why not try and find someone to rent them from, then just mail them back when done.

And on that note, does anyone have .254 and smaller size pins I can rent? I really want to get this build done. I have been working on trying to get it done since jan-feb.
Please help a brother out.

tac-40 · July 13, 2009, 19:57

If you have a set of good calipers or micrometer, you can use a #23 (.154) or #24 (.152) drill bit for your pins. Just measure the drill bit shank to verify its diameter before using it. I suspect that the #23 drill bit will give you the perfect close on Go and not close on NO-GO.

Powderfinger · July 13, 2009, 20:45

Deleted with better answer below.

6ppc · July 13, 2009, 20:47

I am a little confused, whats a #23 .154 and a #24 .152 have to do with him needing pins a few thousand's over a 1/4 inch?

**johnny.308** · July 14, 2009, 10:28

What size GO gauge are you using, 1.630 or 1.632? Final calculations differ depending. If you are using a 1.632 Go gauge, and you used a .255 LC you would end up with a very tight 1.632 HS which would be about perfect and with minimal set back you would probably be exactly where you want it.

JeepsAndGuns · July 14, 2009, 19:11

I do not know what headspace guages we used. They belonged to another member who was helping me install the barrel, I do not own any. He is a long drive from my house.

I will be shooting mainly my reloads, as surplus is getting to high for my blood. I have a RCBS full length die set.

Anyone willing to rent me a set of headspace guages and guage pins going from 254 on down.

Powderfinger · July 15, 2009, 10:35

"Taking this info, could a proper LS be determined?"
Yes, IF you verify what gauge you used.

"Or will I need to find/rent/buy/borrow smaller guage pins and also the headspace guage and do some further testing?"
No.

You need to call your friend and verify what gauage.
If you used a 1.630 Forster GO- I would put in a .253 LS and fire away.

**BamaFal** · July 16, 2009, 18:58

The headspace gauge we used for JeepsandGuns barrel install was a Clymer1101 308 WIN Go Gauge.

The No Go was Clymer 1101. The sizing rod used was at the minimum of .255 with an aggressive two thumb closing.

I hope this helps.

Gary

gunnut1 · July 17, 2009, 09:36

Quote:

Originally posted by johnny.308
What size GO gauge are you using, 1.630 or 1.632? Final calculations differ depending. If you are using a 1.632 Go gauge, and you used a .255 LC you would end up with a very tight 1.632 HS which would be about perfect and with minimal set back you would probably be exactly where you want it.

Where can you find a 1.632 go gauge?

SAMMI spec for the .308 is 1.630. Correct? So why go with a larger gauge? I know that the cnambers are a littl larger on the military rifles.

JeepsAndGuns · July 17, 2009, 19:03

Quote:

Originally posted by BamaFal
The headspace gauge we used for JeepsandGuns barrel install was a Clymer1101 308 WIN Go Gauge.

The No Go was Clymer 1101. The sizing rod used was at the minimum of .255 with an aggressive two thumb closing.

I hope this helps.

Gary

Thank you, that should help.

I hope to get this thing worked out and ready to shoot by the end of the year (at the rate I am going.....)

Powderfinger · July 17, 2009, 19:46

From the Headspace REV 1 thread in the Eureka! sticky-Reference and Data forum.
1.630" Forster GO
1.630" Winchester .308 minimum
1.6315" NATO 7.62 minimum
1.632" Clymer GO
1.634" Forster NO-GO
1.636" Clymer NO-GO
1.638" Forster FIELD
1.638" Winchester .308 maximum
1.640" Clymer FIELD
1.640" NATO 7.62 maximum

The Clymer Go gauge of 1.632 closing aggressively hard on a .255 pin means you need a .255 locking shoulder.
You should be shootin' next weekend.

gunnut1 · July 17, 2009, 21:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Powderfinger
From the Headspace REV 1 thread in the Eureka! sticky-Reference and Data forum.
1.630" Forster GO
1.630" Winchester .308 minimum
1.6315" NATO 7.62 minimum
1.632" Clymer GO
1.634" Forster NO-GO
1.636" Clymer NO-GO
1.638" Forster FIELD
1.638" Winchester .308 maximum
1.640" Clymer FIELD
1.640" NATO 7.62 maximum

The Clymer Go gauge of 1.632 closing aggressively hard on a .255 pin means you need a .255 locking shoulder.
You should be shootin' next weekend.

OK thanks. I was not aware that this information was a sticky.

powermad · July 18, 2009, 03:53

Quote:

SAMMI spec for the .308 is 1.630. Correct? So why go with a larger gauge? I know that the cnambers are a littl larger on the military rifles.

FN specs for a new rifle is 1.632"
All rigs I build are set at 1.632"

If ya gotta force the bolt closed it is to tight.
Mashing it all together is not an accurate reading.

Kinda like forcing a feeler blade between a valve stem and rocker arm. I can force a .003" bigger one in there and I can get it back out if I grab it with pliers.
But that is not an accurate reading.

Setting valve lash and headspace might be apples to oranges but measuring is the same for anything.

I do not use the two thumb method. I have set enough to know how much pressure is needed though.

Stripped bolt/carrier, go gage installed and in battery.
Insert pins till one has good drag (just like setting lash) add 1 for set back and press in the LS.

Pretty much just like that.

powermad · July 18, 2009, 04:45

J&G's

I would say you are in the .252 range.
I have a set of pin gages .250-.500
But to mail ya the pins would be as much in shipping them back and forth as to just getting .250"-.253"
pins at $6.24 + shipping from the link Gary posted.

JeepsAndGuns · July 19, 2009, 09:28

The pic is a little confuseing. Plus tolerance, minus tolerance? Witch ones do I get?
Plus I will still need headspace guages.

powermad · July 19, 2009, 23:05

As per PM I will mail ya the stuff to set headspace.
I'll make up a package and send it out.

I've already lent others tools and they got "lost"
Don't make me regret this decision.
Generaly as a rule I never lend out tools.

I'll send em out, .. I want them back.
Ron.

JeepsAndGuns · July 20, 2009, 20:29

No problem. They will be returned in the same shape as I get them. I thank you very much for your help.

July 12, 2009, 18:37	#1
JeepsAndGuns Registered FALaholic #: 33622 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: alabama Posts: 130	Ok, sorry, headspace help Well big thanks to a fellow member on here, I now have the barrel installed onto my reciever. We then went to headspace it. We stuck the GO guage in and started with his smallest guage pin, witch was .255. It would not close easy. It would close when you apply more than 2 thumb pressure, witch I think is way to much. Taking this info, could a proper LS be determined? Or will I need to find/rent/buy/borrow smaller guage pins and also the headspace guage and do some further testing? Thanks for any help.

July 13, 2009, 19:57	#4
tac-40 Moderator Armed Curmudgeon FALaholic #: 12090 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: SC-Low Country Posts: 4,529	If you have a set of good calipers or micrometer, you can use a #23 (.154) or #24 (.152) drill bit for your pins. Just measure the drill bit shank to verify its diameter before using it. I suspect that the #23 drill bit will give you the perfect close on Go and not close on NO-GO. __________________ Only 2 defining forces have ever offered to die for you.....Jesus Christ and the American Soldier. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom. Lt. Col. Grant L. Rosensteel, Jr. USAF ______________________________ If you do in fact have a problem, you have the rest of your life to solve it. How long your life lasts only depends on how well you solve it.

July 13, 2009, 20:45	#5
Powderfinger Registered Contributor FALaholic #: 12897 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: WA state Posts: 3,755	Deleted with better answer below. __________________ The world's greatest forger is unknown. Truth is the cry of all, but the game of few. George Berkely Last edited by Powderfinger; July 15, 2009 at 14:40.

July 14, 2009, 10:28	#7
johnny.308 Veteran Member Bronze Contributor FALaholic #: 32261 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Der Hafen, Midgard Posts: 1,171	What size GO gauge are you using, 1.630 or 1.632? Final calculations differ depending. If you are using a 1.632 Go gauge, and you used a .255 LC you would end up with a very tight 1.632 HS which would be about perfect and with minimal set back you would probably be exactly where you want it. __________________ God bless the American people and keep your powder dry. "Cry "havoc," let slip the dogs of war." Marc Anthony, Shakespear's Julius Caesar "Ignorance can be cured, but stupid is forever and often fatal." Unknown

July 15, 2009, 10:35	#9
Powderfinger Registered Contributor FALaholic #: 12897 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: WA state Posts: 3,755	"Taking this info, could a proper LS be determined?" Yes, IF you verify what gauge you used. "Or will I need to find/rent/buy/borrow smaller guage pins and also the headspace guage and do some further testing?" No. You need to call your friend and verify what gauage. If you used a 1.630 Forster GO- I would put in a .253 LS and fire away. __________________ The world's greatest forger is unknown. Truth is the cry of all, but the game of few. George Berkely Last edited by Powderfinger; July 15, 2009 at 10:41.

July 12, 2009, 21:27	#2
W.E.G. Administrator Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 1211 Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 31,056	Just order a couple pin gages in smaller sizes. They hardly cost anything, and you will have greater peace of mind that you aren't just pulling numbers out your ass. MSCdirect.com __________________ . . . Ask me about the Mason-Dixon FAL Collectors Association.

July 13, 2009, 19:04	#3
JeepsAndGuns Registered FALaholic #: 33622 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: alabama Posts: 130	I know they are cheap, but as soon as I get this done, I have no use for them, so I would be trying to sell them to people on here who probably already have them. So why not try and find someone to rent them from, then just mail them back when done. And on that note, does anyone have .254 and smaller size pins I can rent? I really want to get this build done. I have been working on trying to get it done since jan-feb. Please help a brother out.

July 13, 2009, 20:47	#6
6ppc Registered FALaholic #: 13858 Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Green Lane, Pa. Posts: 105	I am a little confused, whats a #23 .154 and a #24 .152 have to do with him needing pins a few thousand's over a 1/4 inch?

July 14, 2009, 19:11	#8
JeepsAndGuns Registered FALaholic #: 33622 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: alabama Posts: 130	I do not know what headspace guages we used. They belonged to another member who was helping me install the barrel, I do not own any. He is a long drive from my house. I will be shooting mainly my reloads, as surplus is getting to high for my blood. I have a RCBS full length die set. Anyone willing to rent me a set of headspace guages and guage pins going from 254 on down.

July 16, 2009, 18:58	#10
BamaFal Registered Silver Contributor FALaholic #: 5018 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 251	The headspace gauge we used for JeepsandGuns barrel install was a Clymer1101 308 WIN Go Gauge. The No Go was Clymer 1101. The sizing rod used was at the minimum of .255 with an aggressive two thumb closing. I hope this helps. Gary __________________ "We Shall Endeavor To Persevere" Chief Dan George NRA Life Member

July 17, 2009, 19:46	#13
Powderfinger Registered Contributor FALaholic #: 12897 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: WA state Posts: 3,755	From the Headspace REV 1 thread in the Eureka! sticky-Reference and Data forum. 1.630" Forster GO 1.630" Winchester .308 minimum 1.6315" NATO 7.62 minimum 1.632" Clymer GO 1.634" Forster NO-GO 1.636" Clymer NO-GO 1.638" Forster FIELD 1.638" Winchester .308 maximum 1.640" Clymer FIELD 1.640" NATO 7.62 maximum The Clymer Go gauge of 1.632 closing aggressively hard on a .255 pin means you need a .255 locking shoulder. You should be shootin' next weekend. __________________ The world's greatest forger is unknown. Truth is the cry of all, but the game of few. George Berkely

July 18, 2009, 04:45	#16
powermad Registered FALaholic #: 21150 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,216	J&G's I would say you are in the .252 range. I have a set of pin gages .250-.500 But to mail ya the pins would be as much in shipping them back and forth as to just getting .250"-.253" pins at $6.24 + shipping from the link Gary posted.

July 19, 2009, 09:28	#17
JeepsAndGuns Registered FALaholic #: 33622 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: alabama Posts: 130	The pic is a little confuseing. Plus tolerance, minus tolerance? Witch ones do I get? Plus I will still need headspace guages.

July 19, 2009, 23:05	#18
powermad Registered FALaholic #: 21150 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,216	As per PM I will mail ya the stuff to set headspace. I'll make up a package and send it out. I've already lent others tools and they got "lost" Don't make me regret this decision. Generaly as a rule I never lend out tools. I'll send em out, .. I want them back. Ron.

July 20, 2009, 20:29	#19
JeepsAndGuns Registered FALaholic #: 33622 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: alabama Posts: 130	No problem. They will be returned in the same shape as I get them. I thank you very much for your help.

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