Heavier bullets in .45 Auto ?

[moonbat60]

Hey guys !

Has any of you experimented with bullets heavier than 230gr. in .45 Auto ? I'm thinking especially of bullets in the 250gr. to 260gr. range, that are commonly used for .45 Long Colt.

I'm looking mostly at JHP's for self-defense use, such as f.e. Speer's 260gr. Uni-Cor HP ( #4481 ) that I currently use in .45 Long Colt.

I also realize that there are already optimized self-defense rounds out there, such as Hornady's TAP or Speer's Gold Dot JHP's to mention a few.



Pete

[Shootability]

Why? Do you just have a bunch?

[moonbat60]

I do have some, but I've also toyed with this idea for quite a while, though I know full well that capacity of the .45 Auto case is somewhat limited when using heavier bullets.

It is not the case that I want to make some product improvement at all cost, I just try to experiment a little within reasonable limits. If those experiments turn out well, I'll be a very happy camper.



Pete

[Ron Walker]

Don't forget, too, there is .01 caliber difference between ACP and Long Colt. I believe 230 gr is plenty big enough for the 1911 and similiar. Ron

[Lniceshot]

Well, you wouldn't need tracers, you could probably SEE a 260gr at the velocities you'd be getting. Not to mention a trajectory like a snowball. Just sayin'........

[Stoney]

255 gr will work, about 650 fps

[TerryN]

Originally posted by Stoney
255 gr will work, about 650 fps

+1. I once had a bunch of factory (Hornady?) swaged 255 grain LSWC bullets left over after I sold a Colt New Service, so I loaded them in .45 ACP. I expected feeding problems, but that gun swallowed them without any problems.

[BUFF]

A lot of the older bullet makers' loading manuals have data for using their own 250-260 grain bullets in .45 ACP. I have loaded and shot a few of the swaged Speer 250 gr. SWC's through a Colt Government, and home cast Lyman 424454 260 gr. SWC's as well. How they cycle in any pistol will obviously vary depending on how long and hot the cartridges are loaded, how the mouth of the barrel/frame interface is ramped, with attention paid to any sharp corners or egdes that might get in the way

The need for such a loading is curious. One day I watched with some self interest as I shot four .45 ACP 230 grain bullets into two armed bank robbers. I got a full frontal torso penetration hit, a hit that entered a fellow just under the arm pit and wound its way through a lung and assorted other organs and tissue, ending up down among the digestive system, some 20+ inches deep. A third shot entered the upper side of a large male's thigh, transiting and exiting on the far side, just barely missing the thigh bone and femoral artery. Fourth shot struck one of them on the upper left side of his skull, above and behind his ear, where the bone is the roundest and thickest. It caved his skull in, sending shards of broken bone through the brain tissue, while the bullet itself deflected from the skull and went down into his shouder, penetrating several more inches. The hollowpoints of all the bullets filled with material cut from their coats, jackets and shirts. Three of the bullets were recovered, two at the scene and one more surgically. All had expanded to about 3/4 of an inch and retained just about all of their weight. X-rays showed that the fourth bullet, deep down inside the works of the receipient, probably had expanded and stayed together as well.

My experience validated what other agencies are finding, that modern, well designed handgun bullets will completely penetrate an adult torso fully half or more of the time. Their performance left little to criticize.

I doubt that loading an extra 30 grains of bullet weight at a slightly reduced speed wil aid penetration on adult-sized people much, if that is what it sought by loading such.

(edited for piss poor typing)

[TerryN]

Buff: good on ya! That's sounds like some worthwhile thinning out of the gene pool!

[[486]]

One of my friend's dads loads 250 grain cast lead for silhouette shooting, the ones that you shoot at to knock over. Said anything lighter needed double taps.

[Gazz]

I was talking to a guy in a gun shop the other day who says he regularly shoots 255gr slugs at pin shoots. Claims it makes a big difference clearing the table. He said the only thing he did to the gun was put a shock buffer in. To be honest, I have also shot some through my series 70 Colt but worried that it might not be healthy for the pistol. Pistol ran fine though but I didn't think it would.

[elbo]

Originally posted by Ron Walker
Don't forget, too, there is .01 caliber difference between ACP and Long Colt. Ron

[Shootability]

There has been a trend lately in IDPA for those shooting 9mm to try heavy bullets - I loaded some 158 gr 38 bullets and they shot fine, but I did not notice it shot flatter than the 147s - we have to make a PF of 125 - vel x grain weight /1000 .

I was wondering if you were trying it for competition? I do not see why it would hurt your gun, just cannot see any real reason to shoot the more expensive bullets that way.

I shoot my 45 Colt with 255 by preference, but have loaded with 200gr swc for practice and they worked fine and are cheaper.

[[486]]

Originally posted by Ron Walker
Don't forget, too, there is .01 caliber difference between ACP and Long Colt. I believe 230 gr is plenty big enough for the 1911 and similiar. Ron

.001 is way different than .01 I know it is a typo, but still...

.45ACP is .452 and .45LC is .451, so it'd probably work and wouldn't have too much gas blow by, probably be accurate enough too...

[legion489]

The Lee MODERN RELOADING MANUAL 2nd ed has data on heavy .45 ACP loads. Try a lead 250 gr with 4 gr 231/HP38 (according to the 2009 Hodgdon Annual manual they are the exact same powder) and work up to maybe 4.3 gr. I too have thought this might be a fun thing to try in my AR, just for shits and giggles.

[ghf]

In the mid to late 70's, the Speer 260gr JHP and the Keith SWC- 250gr or so in the 45acp pistol were popular- Remember Guns and Ammo having an article? IAW the article and the Speer Reloading manual, seem to remember loading them with about 6.6(?) gr Unique. Fed, cycled and shot fine in a Colt Govt Model. It was fun to shoot the round, wait a perceptable period of time and then hear the "pop" as the target was hit at 50yds or so...

[hankenglish]

I've shot a few thousand rounds of 'heavy-bullet' .45 ACP rounds thru an Officer's ACP back in the 80's and 90's. They work fine; accurate, and knock down a pepper-popper like nobody's business. I used 4.8 gr W-231 under the 260 gr. slug for about 605 fps. Penetrated 6 -7 inches of dry phone books, pushing a fist-size wad of paper. This was a flat-nose slug with a rounded ogive, not quite like the Keith-style semi-wadcutter that has straight sides going up to the flat nose. Much bigger meplat on the 260.

I don't recall noticing any difference in the point of impact versus that of a 230-grain or even a 200-grain slug. It occurs to me that at short range, say up to 25 yards, one of these might even hit a little higher than the point of impact of a lighter slug, analogous to the way a hotter round will sometime print lower than a more moderate round due to the shorter transit time in the barrel allowing less time for the bullet to be affected by muzzle rise.

Hank