Penna HB1485, no emergency confiscations

justashooter · October 23, 2008, 03:23

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/...r=1845&pn=4528

signed into law in penna on oct 17, HB1485 revises and adds text in Title 18

Section 6107(a) to the effect that persons posessing a LTCF and engaged in the protection of their person or property may openly carry a rifle or shotgun on public streets. persons without LTCF may not.

Section 6107(b) is created, including text prohibiting confiscation of firearms or ammunition by authorities in case of a declared emergency, unless such could be seized in the absence of an emergency.

lots of other good stuff in the new law, which passed house and senate unanimously, including LTCF in state parks, preferential treatment re LTCF for emergency applications and serving military, a definition of straw purchase that allows you to buy for family members, increases in the statute of limitation for chargign of straw purchasers, etc. some things LEO will appreciate, including stiffer penalties for murder of LEO, filing of false reports, etc.

kinda suprised rendell signed it. i expected it to be vetoed and forced back into the house for override, which was a sure thing. no poison pills in the note, from a reading of the text. all the bad stuff was lined through, so not included in the final approval.

Deltaten · October 23, 2008, 09:23

...and here I thought it was a Speddy Eddie ruse to placate the law and order types.
Now it would seem that he was willing to actually recognize codified law in the State; especially during "official" emergencies....

Article 1; sect. 21:
"The right of the Citizen to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned"

Now, there *may* be cause for suit by an unlicenced Citizen; or does this fall under "reasonable" restrictions????

I'm currently leaning towards "reasonable", as LTCF holders have been vetted by the State. THo.. it might give rise to a "Papers pleas!" scenario during times of strife.
A chink inthe States\'s armour; or the camel's nose??? I wonder??

Macht's nichts ta me

I'm gonna do WTF I want [within Constitutional limits] anywho!

Led · October 23, 2008, 12:13

What does LTCF stand for?

Thanks,
Stephen

richbug · October 23, 2008, 12:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Led
What does LTCF stand for?

Thanks,
Stephen

License To Carry Firearms, PA's concealed carry permit. $20 and 15 minutes of your life to get.

Bama Steve · October 23, 2008, 19:59

Who really needs a license to enjoy an individual, God given right?

Slaves . . .

Carry-on!

Deltaten · October 23, 2008, 21:06

Well, Steve...
while it *is* a God-given right to self defense; it is a State regulated means.
I'd sooner avoid the anal probe, thank you very much

richbug...
it is NOT $20 and 15 minutes of one's life! WHile PA does not have huge fees and training requirements, I see that as a product of the Constitution of Commonwealth. It s up to each citizen with a LTCF to be educated, compliant and competent.
Mine's $45 per.....hadta look... 5 years, and involves NCIC , state DB and local courts check; IIRC with a complete "re-do" each renewal. Apply in person; up to 45 day wait (by law, max) and then show up for pix and license during rather curtailed biz hours. A drive downtown to County Hall, pass the metal screening (oops!) and see the ladies in the Sheriff's Office..like DMV meets Howard Johnson's LOL

Mebbe now that they've approved me to also carry rifle and shotgun; they might include some of the other common "prohibited offensive weapos" like a decent knife, dagger, sword or sap-like stick!?!?!

Yeah! I know.. it sez LTCF.. not CCW.

Paul

richbug · October 24, 2008, 06:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Deltaten

richbug...
it is NOT $20 and 15 minutes of one's life! WHile PA does not have huge fees and training requirements, I see that as a product of the Constitution of Commonwealth. It s up to each citizen with a LTCF to be educated, compliant and competent.
Mine's $45 per.....hadta look... 5 years, and involves NCIC , state DB and local courts check; IIRC with a complete "re-do" each renewal. Apply in person; up to 45 day wait (by law, max) and then show up for pix and license during rather curtailed biz hours. A drive downtown to County Hall, pass the metal screening (oops!) and see the ladies in the Sheriff's Office..like DMV meets Howard Johnson's LOL

Paul

I have been back in PA for 3 years after a 10 year Hiatus. I got my license while an OH resident 4 years back. A $20 check and a postage stamp sent to the Centre County Sheriff was all it took(got it back a week later). I tried to get a new one from the Mercer county Sheriff when I moved back and the clerk wouldn't let me since I already had a valid permit, she just told me to update my address with Centre county. I will need a new one in March, but with our Local Sheriff it seems to be a walk in and out deal.

What county are you in?

Deltaten · October 24, 2008, 08:14

Richbug:
Lancaster Co.
Is yers still the paper form/license?
Lanc went to the DL style card when they updated during the "Shall Issue" era.
I suppose counties that have less population and fewer LTCF issues can still use paper tickets?? but with over 55K issued here (?), it would be a nightmare to deal with for the Co. staff.
It *was* my assumption that all Co's were standardized

Best,
Paul

richbug · October 24, 2008, 11:16

My current one is the dollar bill sized paper, issued by Centre. Last I checked Mercer gave you an option of either paper or photo/DL type, maybe just till they run out of the old forms(last I checked was 2 years ago).

Maybe I will be in for a big surprise?

lngnmn · October 24, 2008, 18:48

This bill doesn't seem like any benefit to the Pa. peeps.
OC is legal in the state right?
Except if there's a declared emergency, then you need to have a permission slip from the gov. even for rifles and shotguns to not lose your constitutional rights at the time when you are more likely in need to arm yourself.
Could it be the masters want to know how many arms will be out and about, and from where before hand by requiring a license in advance of an emergency? Why would they want to know that? As a service to the citizens?

I.M.O. needing permission from the gov. is an infringement!

Deltaten · October 25, 2008, 07:25

To-mAy-to...
To-mah-to!

Is it an "infringement"?
in the literal sense; yes. [just how many angels *do* fit on the head of a pin?]
But, I (try to) look upon it as a certification and official recognition of that right-under-law.

rich,
It may be that yer right , and the Co. Sheriff needs to use up paper forms and has so few permits to issue and a low budget that he doesn't want to spring for the card machine

Many's the year I carried that little slip of NCR paper; later with passport photo stapled to it.
I once wondered why the heck they didn't just put a rider on the DL, like a MC cert.
Then I realized that it would have added another layer to the already bloated DMV AND remove a function from under the local Sheriff's purview.
I'd sooner have it local!
The standardization factor of the shall-issue bill was of less concern to me than the big stick of the "shall" part

The STate legislature finally codifying the Constitutional edict to force recalcitrant Sheriffs into issuing paper was a boon to all citizens of the Commonwealth.

THis latest recognition is another "official" recognition of that/those rights.
It's a case of the rabbit and the hare..We can "boil the frog" just as the anti's have...slow and sure, by law. When even a Democrat Governor signs a bill such as this, we can be glad of our quiet and sure efforts within the Legistature.

sam i am · October 26, 2008, 19:53

Quote:

§ 6111.4. Registration of firearms. <--
10 Notwithstanding any section of this chapter to the contrary,
11 nothing in this chapter shall be construed to allow any
12 government or law enforcement agency or any agent thereof to
13 create, maintain or operate any registry of firearm ownership
14 within this Commonwealth[.], other than a registry of firearms
15 reported lost or stolen under section 6111.1(b)(5) (relating to
16 Pennsylvania State Police). For the purposes of this section
17 only, the term "firearm" shall include any weapon that is
18 designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile
19 by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any
20 such weapon.
<--

So am I reading this right??????

All of this was struck out so does this now mean that PSP can legally keep their registry?

bill3542 · October 26, 2008, 20:13

Indiana county uses the Dr. Lic type and its never been a hassle for me at county sheriffs office.

October 23, 2008, 03:23	#1
justashooter Registered FALaholic #: 5967 Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: york, pa. Posts: 4,503	Penna HB1485, no emergency confiscations http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/...r=1845&pn=4528 signed into law in penna on oct 17, HB1485 revises and adds text in Title 18 Section 6107(a) to the effect that persons posessing a LTCF and engaged in the protection of their person or property may openly carry a rifle or shotgun on public streets. persons without LTCF may not. Section 6107(b) is created, including text prohibiting confiscation of firearms or ammunition by authorities in case of a declared emergency, unless such could be seized in the absence of an emergency. lots of other good stuff in the new law, which passed house and senate unanimously, including LTCF in state parks, preferential treatment re LTCF for emergency applications and serving military, a definition of straw purchase that allows you to buy for family members, increases in the statute of limitation for chargign of straw purchasers, etc. some things LEO will appreciate, including stiffer penalties for murder of LEO, filing of false reports, etc. kinda suprised rendell signed it. i expected it to be vetoed and forced back into the house for override, which was a sure thing. no poison pills in the note, from a reading of the text. all the bad stuff was lined through, so not included in the final approval. __________________ If the concept of heading on down to the local Home Depot and transforming $100 worth of random pipe bits into a killing machine doesn’t appeal to you, you’re a frikkin' pansy. Also, you’re probably sane and will live significantly longer than I will. Nonetheless you disgust me, and I take comfort in the knowledge that your obituary will be nowhere near as humorous as mine. The next time I hear "THE RANGE IS NOW HOT", it just wont be the same. Max tried another question. "What sort of people live about here?" "In THAT direction," the Jin said, waving its right paw round, "lives a Han: And in THAT direction," waving the other paw, "lives a Ming Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad." "But I don't want to go among mad people," Max remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Jin: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Max. "You must be," said the Jin, "or you wouldn't have come here."

October 23, 2008, 09:23	#2
Deltaten Registered FALaholic #: 124 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lancaster, PA USA Posts: 8,500	...and here I thought it was a Speddy Eddie ruse to placate the law and order types. Now it would seem that he was willing to actually recognize codified law in the State; especially during "official" emergencies.... Article 1; sect. 21: "The right of the Citizen to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned" Now, there may be cause for suit by an unlicenced Citizen; or does this fall under "reasonable" restrictions???? I'm currently leaning towards "reasonable", as LTCF holders have been vetted by the State. THo.. it might give rise to a "Papers pleas!" scenario during times of strife. A chink inthe States\'s armour; or the camel's nose??? I wonder?? Macht's nichts ta me I'm gonna do WTF I want [within Constitutional limits] anywho! __________________ All or Nothing! Senator McCarthy was right! and as always......FYB!

October 23, 2008, 21:06	#6
Deltaten Registered FALaholic #: 124 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lancaster, PA USA Posts: 8,500	Well, Steve... while it is a God-given right to self defense; it is a State regulated means. I'd sooner avoid the anal probe, thank you very much richbug... it is NOT $20 and 15 minutes of one's life! WHile PA does not have huge fees and training requirements, I see that as a product of the Constitution of Commonwealth. It s up to each citizen with a LTCF to be educated, compliant and competent. Mine's $45 per.....hadta look... 5 years, and involves NCIC , state DB and local courts check; IIRC with a complete "re-do" each renewal. Apply in person; up to 45 day wait (by law, max) and then show up for pix and license during rather curtailed biz hours. A drive downtown to County Hall, pass the metal screening (oops!) and see the ladies in the Sheriff's Office..like DMV meets Howard Johnson's LOL Mebbe now that they've approved me to also carry rifle and shotgun; they might include some of the other common "prohibited offensive weapos" like a decent knife, dagger, sword or sap-like stick!?!?! Yeah! I know.. it sez LTCF.. not CCW. Paul __________________ All or Nothing! Senator McCarthy was right! and as always......FYB!

October 24, 2008, 08:14	#8
Deltaten Registered FALaholic #: 124 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lancaster, PA USA Posts: 8,500	Richbug: Lancaster Co. Is yers still the paper form/license? Lanc went to the DL style card when they updated during the "Shall Issue" era. I suppose counties that have less population and fewer LTCF issues can still use paper tickets?? but with over 55K issued here (?), it would be a nightmare to deal with for the Co. staff. It was my assumption that all Co's were standardized Best, Paul __________________ All or Nothing! Senator McCarthy was right! and as always......FYB!

October 25, 2008, 07:25	#11
Deltaten Registered FALaholic #: 124 Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lancaster, PA USA Posts: 8,500	To-mAy-to... To-mah-to! Is it an "infringement"? in the literal sense; yes. [just how many angels do fit on the head of a pin?] But, I (try to) look upon it as a certification and official recognition of that right-under-law. rich, It may be that yer right , and the Co. Sheriff needs to use up paper forms and has so few permits to issue and a low budget that he doesn't want to spring for the card machine Many's the year I carried that little slip of NCR paper; later with passport photo stapled to it. I once wondered why the heck they didn't just put a rider on the DL, like a MC cert. Then I realized that it would have added another layer to the already bloated DMV AND remove a function from under the local Sheriff's purview. I'd sooner have it local! The standardization factor of the shall-issue bill was of less concern to me than the big stick of the "shall" part The STate legislature finally codifying the Constitutional edict to force recalcitrant Sheriffs into issuing paper was a boon to all citizens of the Commonwealth. THis latest recognition is another "official" recognition of that/those rights. It's a case of the rabbit and the hare..We can "boil the frog" just as the anti's have...slow and sure, by law. When even a Democrat Governor signs a bill such as this, we can be glad of our quiet and sure efforts within the Legistature. __________________ All or Nothing! Senator McCarthy was right! and as always......FYB!

October 23, 2008, 12:13	#3
Led Registered FALaholic #: 6910 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Huntington, WV Posts: 443	What does LTCF stand for? Thanks, Stephen

October 23, 2008, 19:59	#5
Bama Steve Registered FALaholic #: 1982 Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Where I am Posts: 3,594	Who really needs a license to enjoy an individual, God given right? Slaves . . . Carry-on!

October 24, 2008, 11:16	#9
richbug Registered FALaholic #: 10484 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Western PA Posts: 3,765	My current one is the dollar bill sized paper, issued by Centre. Last I checked Mercer gave you an option of either paper or photo/DL type, maybe just till they run out of the old forms(last I checked was 2 years ago). Maybe I will be in for a big surprise?

October 24, 2008, 18:48	#10
lngnmn Registered FALaholic #: 18828 Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: . Posts: 184	This bill doesn't seem like any benefit to the Pa. peeps. OC is legal in the state right? Except if there's a declared emergency, then you need to have a permission slip from the gov. even for rifles and shotguns to not lose your constitutional rights at the time when you are more likely in need to arm yourself. Could it be the masters want to know how many arms will be out and about, and from where before hand by requiring a license in advance of an emergency? Why would they want to know that? As a service to the citizens? I.M.O. needing permission from the gov. is an infringement!

October 26, 2008, 20:13	#13
bill3542 Registered FALaholic #: 5675 Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Indiana Co.PA Posts: 1,716	Indiana county uses the Dr. Lic type and its never been a hassle for me at county sheriffs office. __________________ BILL H

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